Southeast Asia 16 Years Later with Michael Smith Jr & Daniel Cerventus Lim

"We took a longer time, there was a bit of roundabout, but the fact that we actually made like two or three times on whatever investment amount we did in the beginning - that for me was a very pivotal moment. Just because we didn't give up. The line between success and failure is so thin. So the impact of being a VC space is that you really can influence the technology founders that you back." - Beatrice Lion Fresh out of the studio, Beatrice Lion, the chief executive officer and global partner from True Global Ventures, shares the remarkable story of how she became one of the youngest fund managers and the backstory to secure Singapore's Capital Markets Service license from MAS equivalent to Sequoia & Andreessen Horowitz's RIA licence in the US. Beatrice begins with her unconventional career journey from university straight into venture capital in 2017 and details TGV's investment thesis of backing only tested serial entrepreneurs across AI and blockchain applications. Beatrice offers her perspectives on the convergence of AI and crypto, the evolution of stablecoins as crypto's killer app, corporate treasury strategies such as Michael Saylor's Strategy with Bitcoin and Ethereum Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs), and why TGV maintains their performance-focused philosophy of keeping fund sizes at $100-200 million rather than chasing larger management fees. Last but not least, Beatrice shares what great would look like for TGV in the future. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Beatrice Lyon [01:00] Introduction: Beatrice Lyon, CEO of True Global Ventures [04:27] Supporting portfolio companies through business development [05:03] Successful turnaround story and investment recovery [08:30] How she take the CEO role as operational glue among partners [11:25] MAS approval process for Capital Markets Licence (CMS) [13:00] TGV fund structure: four, five, six overview [14:55] Investment thesis: AI and blockchain applications globally [16:01] Focus on serial entrepreneurs, not first-timers [17:39] CMS license removes 20% constraint limitations [20:54] The rationale behind applying for broad licenses [26:57] Secondary market opportunities and liquidation preferences [30:18] Blockchain landscape evolving toward financial applications [34:49] Private stock tokenization and where it is heading [38:27] Stablecoin as killer app for crypto [39:09] AI agents settling payments with stablecoins [42:25] Different regulatory approaches across jurisdictions [43:36] Corporate crypto treasury strategies beyond Bitcoin, Ethereum DATs and Solana [48:35] 80-20 rule for portfolio company treasuries [50:37] Four-year crypto cycles may be extending [54:31] What does great look like for TGV [59:09] Closing Profile: Beatrice Lion, Chief Executive Officer and General Partner, True Global Ventures: https://www.tgv4plus.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beatricelion/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast: Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

Reuniting after more than a decade since their days in This Week in Asia Podcast from 2009, Michael Smith Jr., co-host of The Generalist podcast, and Daniel Cerventus Lim, semi-retired entrepreneur and community builder in Malaysia, join us for a candid assessment of Southeast Asia's tech ecosystem evolution. In this raw conversation, Michael offers his unflinching perspective on what he calls the 'broken windows era' of Southeast Asian tech, arguing that recent alleged fraud cases like E-Fishery and Tanihub require serious consequences to restore investor confidence, while questioning whether the region was ever correctly modelled for Silicon Valley-style outcomes. Daniel shares his pivot from startup founder to search fund advocate, explaining his bullish view on acquiring profitable traditional businesses and reflects on whether the region's potential was genuinely unrealized or simply impossible to achieve. Together, they explore the shift from venture-backed unicorn dreams to bootstrap realities, debate work ethic of Southeast Asia founders in comparison with Chinese and Indian founders, and discuss why the future of Southeast Asian tech may lie in smaller, profitable exits rather than the massive IPOs once envisioned. "I think wealth creation here is very SME-focused." - Daniel Cerventus Lim "Basically whether, it's SME or startup, to me now it's just: can you build a profitable business?" - Bernard Leong "I have this philosophy that I think people don't agree with me, but we're in a broken Windows era of Southeast Asia and the only way in my opinion, the windows get fixed is if some of these people are behind bars." - Michael Smith Jr. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Daniel Cerventus, Bernard Leong & Michael Smith JR [00:59] Introduction: Daniel Cerventus and Michael Smith Jr. from the Generalists Podcast [06:00] Multiple alleged frauds in Southeast Asia: E-Fishery, Tanihub [09:57] Southeast Asia in "broken windows era" [11:26] Only exits from seed to Series A [11:47] B rounds virtually gone, A rounds endangered. [14:00] 50-100 million exits still viable [16:30] Malaysian crypto companies globally focused [19:25] Country expansion model in ASEAN doesn't work [23:02] Israel model: never think local market [24:15] Razer story: HP Mafia network backing [25:07] Supabase: not really Singapore capital, but globally successful [30:18] Chinese founders arriving with speed [31:19] Work ethic comparisons with India [32:34] Search funds emerging in Singapore [37:25] Mainstream media ignores bootstrap success [39:50] Search fund model targeting aging operators [41:21] SME vs startup distinction blurring [46:20] Hedge funds questioning regional companies [49:32] Unrealized vs impossible potential debate [51:07] Bangladesh ecosystem showing promise [53:20] Structural exit issues remain unsolved [54:31] Reset creating better founder discipline [55:40] Optimistic on Southeast Asia's startup ecosystem [57:21] Closing Profile: Michael Smith Jr., Tech Evangelist from Oracle & Co-Host, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smittysgp/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGeneralistsPodcast   Daniel Cerventus Lim, semi-retired entrepreneur, Community Builder in Malaysia and TEDxKL founder. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cerventus/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/80164351656   Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"The way that institutions emerge and entrench themselves and become a part of the functioning of an economy and society is because they solve some problems. So they're usually a non-market solution toward solving some problem that the economy, that the market system couldn't necessarily solve. Of course the most prominent example of an institution that solves an. Market problem in the non-market way is a firm, as Ronald Coase, of course very early on, taught us that. When a firm realizes that in some cases when transactions costs are high, you want to internalize things within the firm. That the firm is itself an institution. But these other social political institutions, they also exist to resolve some problem. And once they resolve that problem and they're resolving it adequately, then it becomes really hard to bring about change. So the institution solves a problem. So to be clear, it is better than in the absence of the institution, but it also means that without somehow breaking this institution or having some crisis that leads you to substantially reform the institution, you are going to be stuck at a suboptimal equilibrium." - Jamus Lim, author of "Asian Economies: History, Institutions and Structures" Fresh out of the studio, Associate Professor Jamus Lim from ESSEC Business School and author of "Asian Economies: History, Institutions and Structures" joined us in a comprehensive exploration of the economic foundations shaping Asia's remarkable rise. Jamus shared his story on how the Asian Financial Crisis sparked his passion for macroeconomics and development. He unpacked the critical yet often overlooked role of geography, history, and institutional frameworks in explaining Asia's immense economic diversity, arguing that abstract economic models fail to capture the real-world complexities driving regional development. Through deep dives into China's demographic transition and export-driven challenges, South Korea's state-led chaebol industrialization model, and Japan's historic shift from deflation to inflation, Jamus demonstrated how colonial legacies and historical persistence continue to shape modern economic structures across the continent. Throughout the conversation, he revealed why China's middle-income trap escape depends on building domestic consumption to absorb its massive manufacturing capacity, explained how institutional solutions that once solved problems can become growth constraints, and argued that understanding Asia's past is essential for navigating its economic future in an increasingly complex global landscape. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Jamus Lim [02:27] Introduction: Jamus Lim, Associate Professor in ESSEC Business School and Author of Asian Economies [04:38] Asian Financial Crisis sparks Jamus' macro economics interest [07:38] Teaching in Asia reveals regional development contrasts [09:10] Middle income trap challenges across Asian economies [10:23] Defining Asia: beyond East Asia stereotypes [15:10] How Geography and History are overlooked in economic discourse [17:26] China's transformation: poverty to economic powerhouse [19:32] Demographic transition challenges across East Asia [22:21] China's manufacturing evolution and export strategy [24:28] Lewis turning point: China's labor transformation [26:11] Housing boom and excess supply challenges [29:10] Hukou system creates unequal access issues [33:30] China shock: WTO entry transforms global manufacturing [38:27] South Korea's state-led industrialization model success [39:10] Zaibatsu to Chaebol: the colonial influence on economic structures [42:00] Heavy chemical industry: successful state intervention in South Korea [44:17] Japan's deflation to inflation transition challenges [46:32] Structural adjustments in Japanese labor markets [48:03] Institutional foundations: solving problems creates persistence [54:04] Academic success vs. real-world policy impact [55:00] Closing Profile: Jamus Lim, Author of Asian Economies, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamuslim/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"APAC represents 40% of global GDP. So you can see that there's huge opportunity in a very, very diverse region. The needs of Japan are different to the needs of China. India is exploding with SaaS, software, AI. Australia one of our larger markets, again, very different. And so Southeast Asia, the complexities of Asia make it a joy to work in." - Paul Harapin Fresh out of the studio, Paul Harapin, Chief Revenue Officer for Asia Pacific and Japan at Stripe, joined us in a conversation discussing Stripe's explosive growth in the region that represents 40% of global GDP. Paul dived deep into how Stripe is revolutionizing commerce through AI and stablecoins, sharing fascinating customer stories in the Asia Pacific and Japan. He delved into Stripe's current innovations specifically on agentic commerce toolkits, virtual card issuing, and adaptive pricing solutions that are transforming how businesses scale across the dynamic Asia Pacific region. Last but not least, Paul shared the key trends in AI-powered payments and stablecoin adoption, defining what great would look like for Stripe's user-first approach to building the financial infrastructure of the internet economy in APAC. Episode Highlights [00:00] Quote of the Day by Paul Harapin [02:30] Building tech companies, helping Silicon Valley expand Asia [03:27] How Paul talked himself into Stripe role [04:30] Key career lessons: people and passion matter most [07:05] Stripe's mission to increase GDP of internet [09:00] Asia represents 40% of global GDP opportunity [12:42] AI transformation like discovering fire, very early cycle [14:12] Agentic commerce toolkits downloaded thousands times weekly [18:04] Virtual card issuing for secure AI transactions [19:00] Stripe Link enables six second checkout process [21:26] Adaptive pricing increases conversion by 18 percent [24:23] Bridge acquisition brings stablecoin payment capabilities [26:00] Stablecoin enables stability in volatile currency markets [27:00] Japanese car exporter Zimbabwe cash bag example [29:20] Digital currency adoption growing at consumer level [31:00] Working closely with regulators across Asia Pacific [33:40] Asia's fast digitizing economy leads global innovation [34:05] India's UPI 10 billion transactions forecasted 100 billion [36:30] How Stripe helps businesses in Asia Pacific to scale [38:42] User-first founding principle drives everything at Stripe [40:20] Closing Profile: Paul Harapin, Chief Revenue Officer, Asia Pacific & Japan, Stripe. LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulharapin/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"AI is in the minds of a lot of people right now and naturally with such big technological shift, you find that there is a big skill gap. You know, there is companies demanding skills in this area, and yet naturally in the marketplace, they might have difficulty finding that skills that is required for companies. So, you know, job seekers need to be a lot more conscious in terms of how they are equipping themselves. One of the things is that LinkedIn courses are there [to help]. I always talk about the three affirmative actions that you can do. One is making sure that you are fluent in this area. I think what are the things that you can do to actually get your hands on all these tools so that you become fluent in just playing around with the tool and making sure that you feel comfortable. The second area that I advise people is to make sure that you feel that you have the agency to master your destiny. The third thing will be to take action. If you have learned all these skills, find a way to showcase it and find a way to actually talk about it so that you are, you can actually surface your capabilities in this space." - Feon Ang Fresh out of the studio, Feon Ang, Managing Director of LinkedIn Asia Pacific, joins us to explore how the platform is transforming professional networking and career development across the region's 343 million members. She shares her career journey from publishing to tech leadership, reflecting on the evolution from typewritten CVs to AI-powered job searches today. Feon explains LinkedIn's unique approach combining scale, trust, and member-first philosophy, emphasizing how their AI tools enable professionals to find opportunities through natural language while companies streamline hiring processes. She highlights the platform's remarkable growth metrics—47 hires per minute and 36% video engagement growth—showcasing how organizations are re-engineering recruitment and learning through AI coaching and personalized pathways. Addressing the challenges of AI adoption and skills gaps, she emphasizes the importance of three key actions: fluency, agency, and action, while advocating for accessible AI integration into daily workflows. Closing the conversation, Feon shares her vision for creating even greater economic opportunity across Asia Pacific as professionals and businesses navigate the AI transformation together. Profile: Feon Ang, Managing Director of LinkedIn Asia Pacific: https://www.linkedin.com/in/feonang/ Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day: Feon Ang [01:06] Feon's career journey from publishing to tech [03:00] Three key lessons from Feon's career journey: members first, scale, trust [00:05:18] LinkedIn's mission: creating economic opportunity globally [00:06:28] Asia Pacific: 343 million members, fastest growing [00:08:19] Business milestone: crossed 17 billion globally [00:09:50] Highest engagement rate across social platforms [00:11:00] Video content growing 36% year-on-year [00:12:24] Real-time hiring: 47 hires per minute, 10,000 applications every minute [00:14:00] AI job search using natural language [00:15:42] LinkedIn hiring assistant streamlines recruitment [00:17:18] AI coaching creates personalized learning pathways [00:19:10] Skill gaps demand conscious professional development [00:21:00] Advice for Professionals in the age of AI: Fluency, Agency, Action [23:13] Community partnerships supporting workforce development [25:12] How CEOs are using social media via LinkedIn [27:02] What does great look like for LinkedIn in the Asia Pacific? [28:00] Closing Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"If you're going to be running a very elite research institution, you have to have the best people. To have the best people, you have to trust them and empower them. You can't hire a world expert in some area and then tell them what to do. They know more than you do. They're smarter than you are in their area. So you've got to trust your people. One of our really foundational commitments to our people is: we trust you. We're going to work to empower you. Go do the thing that you need to do. If somebody in the labs wants to spend 5, 10, 15 years working on something they think is really important, they're empowered to do that." - Doug Burger Fresh out of the studio, Doug Burger, Technical Fellow and Corporate Vice President at Microsoft Research, joins us to explore Microsoft's bold expansion into Southeast Asia with the recent launch of the Microsoft Research Asia lab in Singapore. From there, Doug shares his accidental journey from academia to leading global research operations, reflecting on how Microsoft Research's open collaboration model empowers over thousands of researchers worldwide to tackle humanity's biggest challenges. Following on, he highlights the recent breakthroughs from Microsoft Research for example, the quantum computing breakthrough with topological qubits, the evolution from lines of code to natural language programming, and how AI is accelerating innovation across multiple scaling dimensions beyond traditional data limits. Addressing the intersection of three computing paradigms—logic, probability, and quantum—he emphasizes that geographic diversity in research labs enables Microsoft to build AI that works for everyone, not just one region. Closing the conversation, Doug shares his vision of what great looks like for Microsoft Research with researchers driven by purpose and passion to create breakthroughs that advance both science and society. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Doug Burger [01:08] Doug Burger's journey from academia to Microsoft Research [02:24] Career advice: Always seek challenges, move when feeling restless or comfortable [03:07] Launch of Microsoft Research Asia in Singapore: Tapping local talent and culture for inclusive AI development [04:13] Singapore lab focuses on foundational AI, embodied AI, and healthcare applications [06:19] AI detecting seizures in children and assessing Parkinson's motor function [08:24] Embedding Southeast Asian societal norms and values into Foundational AI research [10:26] Microsoft Research's open collaboration model [12:42] Generative AI's rapid pace accelerating technological innovation and research tools [14:36] AI revolutionizing computer architecture by creating completely new interfaces [16:24] Open versus closed source AI models debate and Microsoft's platform approach [18:08] Reasoning models enabling formal verification and correctness guarantees in AI [19:35] Multiple scaling dimensions in AI beyond traditional data scaling laws [21:01] Project Catapult and Brainwave: Building configurable hardware acceleration platforms [23:29] Microsoft's 17-year quantum computing journey with topological qubits breakthrough [26:26] Balancing blue-sky foundational research with application-driven initiatives at scale [29:16] Three computing paradigms: logic, probability (AI), and quantum superposition [32:26] Microsoft Research's exploration-to-exploitation playbook for breakthrough discoveries [35:26] Research leadership secret: Curiosity across fields enables unexpected connections [37:11] Hidden Mathematical Structures Transformers Architecture in LLMs [40:04] Microsoft Research's vision: Becoming Bell Labs for AI era [42:22] Steering AI models for mental health and critical thinking conversations Profile: Doug Burger, Technical Fellow and Corporate Vice President, Microsoft Research LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dcburger/ Microsoft Research Profile: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/people/dburger/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"China's approach is very pragmatic. People have been saying DeepSeek did it out of necessity. There's obviously a GPU constraint and hardware constraint in China, something they're working around. In many ways, the engineering genius and engineering innovation is what set DeepSeek apart. It challenged a global narrative around needing more GPUs and more money to get better AI. It was about throwing capital at the problem. It was a different approach because the capital ecosystem in China itself is very different. People talk about proof of concept - you have to prove your concept first in China to get funding. For many startups, they weren't getting much funding before the DeepSeek moment. To your point, no one really knew it would have a strong ROI, so only the BATs that had money and understood the technology were backing it." - Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem Newsletter Fresh out of the studio, Grace Shao, founder of AI Proem Newsletter and former CNBC and CGTN journalist, joins us to explore the rise of generative AI in China and how it's reshaping the global technology narrative. She began the story of her career journey and started with the conversation reflecting on how the DeepSeek moment revitalized China's internet sector after years of regulatory challenges and geopolitical tensions. Grace unpacks the pragmatic Chinese approach to AI development, explaining how companies like ByteDance, Alibaba, and Tencent are leveraging their unique ecosystems and data advantages while startups embrace open-weight models to prove innovation over imitation. She discusses why the "China versus US AI arms race" narrative misses the point, the strategic reasons behind companies relocating to avoid geopolitical sensitivities, and how distribution challenges are separating winners from losers in the consumer AI space. Addressing the broader implications, Grace explores the real opportunities in robotics, vertical AI applications, and why collaboration rather than competition should define the industry's future. Closing the conversation, she shares her vision for bridging cultural understanding between East and West and what success looks like for the next generation of AI development. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem [01:21] Introduction: Grace Shao from AI Proem [04:29] China's tech moves incredibly fast. [08:09] China's generative AI landscape: BATs, Startups & Research Labs [09:23] Most AI startups have financial ties with Alibaba or Tencent [10:02] Chinese AI approach more pragmatic: commercialize quickly versus philosophical AGI pursuit [12:23] Alibaba's approach to LLMs with Qwen [15:00] Tencent's WeChat integration with DeepSeek vs Tencent Yuanbao [18:03] ByteDance pivots to multimodal LLM models [21:31] DeepSeek moment revitalized China's internet sector after rough 2022-2024 period [27:28] DeepSeek and Kimi embrace open-weight models for talent and adoption [29:46] Open sourcing as strategic decision for China LLMs [33:19] US capital pullout from China forced companies like Manus overseas to Singapore [37:17] Robotics in China: Unitree Robotics, UBTech and Galbot [42:05] Chinese startups focus on vertical integration rather than competing on LLMs [43:51] Healthcare and agricultural AI applications extremely advanced in China [44:13] This isn't an arms race; framing as competition misses the point [45:49] China and US should collaborate on AI safety and regulation for future generations [49:00] Closing Profile: Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem Newsletter: https://aiproem.substack.com/ Personal Site: https://www.proemcommunications.com/aboutgraceshao LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gmzshao/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"[Question: So what was the biggest misconception for most business leaders usually when it comes to operationalizing AI governance?] Based on my interactions and conversations, now suddenly they think they have to erect a whole set of new committees, that they have to have these new programs. You almost hear a sigh from the room. Like, oh, we have now this whole additional compliance cost because we have to do all these new things. The reason I see that as a bit of a misconception, because building on everything that was just said earlier, you already have compliance, you already have committees, you already have governance. It's an integration of that because otherwise guess what's gonna happen? We all know that this is the next thing around the corner that's gonna pop up, whatever it's gonna be called. Are you gonna have to set up a whole new committee just because of that? Then the next thing, another one." - David Hardoon Fresh out of the studio, David Hardoon, Global Head of AI Enablement at Standard Chartered Bank, joins us in a conversation to explore how financial institutions can adopt AI responsibly at scale. He shares his unique journey from academia to government to global banking, reflecting on his fascination with human behavior that originally drew him to artificial intelligence. David explains how his time at Singapore's Monetary Authority shaped the groundbreaking FAIR principles, emphasizing how proper AI governance actually accelerates rather than inhibits innovation. He highlights real-world implementations from autonomous cash reconciliation agents to transaction monitoring systems, showcasing how banks are transforming operations while maintaining strict regulatory compliance. Addressing the biggest misconceptions about AI governance, he emphasizes the importance of integrating AI frameworks into existing structures rather than creating entirely new bureaucracies, while advocating for use-case-based approaches that build essential trust. Closing the conversation, David shares his philosophy that AI success ultimately depends on understanding human behavior and asks the fundamental question every organization should consider: "Why are we doing this?" Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by David Hardoon #QOTD - "AI governance isn't new bureaucracy." [00:46] Introduction: David Hardoon from Standard Chartered Bank. [02:02] How David's AI journey started with human behavior curiosity. [07:26] Governance accelerates innovation, like traffic rules enable fast driving. [10:31] FAIR principles in MAS Singapore born from lunches with compliance officers. [14:23] Don't reinvent governance wheel for AI implementations. [24:17] Banks already manage risk; apply same discipline to AI. [28:40] AI adoption problem is trust, not technology. [34:21] Autonomous AI agents handle cash reconciliation with bank IDs. [36:00] AI reduces transaction monitoring false positives by 50%. [39:54] AI requires full supply chain from infrastructure to translators. [41:52] Organizations must reward intelligent failure in AI innovation. [44:47] AI hallucination is a feature, not bug for innovation. [47:35] Measure AI ROI differently for innovation versus implementation teams. [56:27] Final wisdom: People always ask "why" about AI initiatives. Profile: David Hardoon, Global Head of AI Enablement, Standard Chartered Bank Personal Site: https://davidroihardoon.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidrh/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Analys1eAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"You can try to develop self-awareness and take a beginner's mind in all things. This includes being open to feedback and truly listening, even when it might be hard to receive. I think that's been something I've really tried to practice. The other area is recognizing that just like a company or country, as humans we have many stakeholders. You may wear many hats in different ways. So as we think of the totality of your life over time, what's your portfolio of passions? How do you choose—as individuals, as society, as organizations, as humans and families with our loved ones and friends—to not just spend your time and resources, but really invest your time, resources, and spirit into areas, people, and contexts that bring you meaning and where you can build a legacy? So it's not so much advice, but more like a north star." - Sabastian V. Niles Fresh out of the studio, Sabastian Niles, President and Chief Legal Officer at Salesforce Global, joins us to explore how trust and responsibility shape the future of enterprise AI. He shares his journey from being a high-tech corporate lawyer and trusted advisor to leading AI governance at a company whose number one value is trust, reflecting on the evolution from automation to agentic AI that can reason, plan, and execute tasks alongside humans. Sabastian explains how Agentforce 3.0 enables agent-to-agent interactions and human-AI collaboration through command centers and robust guardrails. He highlights how organizations are leveraging trusted AI for personalized customer experiences, while Salesforce's Office of Ethical and Humane Use operationalizes trust through transparency, explainability, and auditability. Addressing the black box problem in AI, he emphasizes that guardrails provide confidence to move faster rather than creating barriers. Closing the conversation, Sabastian shares his vision on what great looks like for trusted agentic AI at scale. Episode Highlights [00:00] Quote of the Day by Sabastian Niles: "Portfolio of passions - invest your spirit into areas that bring meaning" [01:02] Introduction: Sabastian Niles, President and Chief Legal Officer of Salesforce Global [02:29] Sabastian's Career Journey [04:50] From Trusted Advisor to SalesForce whose number one value is trust [08:09] Salesforce's 5 core values: Trust, Customer Success, Innovation, Equality, Sustainability [10:25] Defining Agentic AI: humans with AI agents driving stakeholder success together [13:13] Trust paradigm shift: trusted approaches become an accelerant, not obstacle [17:33] Agent interactions: not just human-to-agent, but agent-to-agent-to-agent handoffs [23:35] Enterprise AI requires transparency, explainability, and auditability [28:00] Trust philosophy: "begins long before prompt, continues after output" [34:06] Office of Ethical and Humane Use operationalizes trust values [40:00] Future vision: AI helps us spend time on uniquely human work [45:17] Governance philosophy: Guardrails provide confidence to move faster [48:24] What does great look like for Salesorce for Trust & Responsibility in the Era of AI? [50:16] Closing Profile: Sabastian V. Niles, President & Chief Legal Officer, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabastian-v-niles-b0175b2/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/

"I quote a study that looked at  84 countries in terms of internal migration and India was dead last. That's not a knock against the culture. It's just not part of the culture that young women in particular leave home at 17, go to the other side of the country and work in a factory. You don't have that. So what's the phrase: Culture eats strategy for breakfast. Apple might have a plan, but  like good luck upending 5,000 years of Indian culture to make it happen." - Patrick McGee, author of "Apple in China" Fresh out of the studio, Patrick McGee, San Francisco correspondent for the Financial Times and author of "Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest Company" joined us in a conversation to unravel the extraordinary story of how the world's most valuable company became inextricably entangled with China. Patrick shared the backstory behind Apple's century-defining Faustian bargain and progressed through how he uncovered the untold story of Asia's contract manufacturing history through Apple's supply chain point of view. He unpacks the famous "Apple Squeeze" philosophy of paying suppliers minimally while providing invaluable training, and shares fascinating stories from characters like the ruthless negotiator Tony Blevins to the tragic figure of Jackie Haynes. Throughout the conversation, Patrick demonstrates how Apple inadvertently created China's contract manufacturing capabilities and explains why the company's current attempts to diversify to India face insurmountable cultural and political barriers. Last but not least, he argues that Apple's very success in China has become its greatest vulnerability, trapped in a relationship where going too fast risks Beijing's ire, while going too slow means remaining stuck in an increasingly untenable position. Episode Highlights: [00:03] Quote of the Day by Patrick McGee [01:00] Introduction: Patrick McGee, author of "Apple in China" [03:12] Lessons from Patrick's Career Journey [05:13] March 15, 2013: Xi Jinping's political awakening - Apple's first "oh shit moment" in China, just 12 hours after his inauguration [10:25] Apple's manufacturing DNA - why they control supply chains differently than other tech companies [12:09] The secret pyramid: ID → PD → MD - how Apple's industrial design gets translated into manufacturing reality [16:11] Terry Gou's legendary call: "I can fix this" - the moment Foxconn became Apple's key manufacturing partner [19:38] OEM vs ODM strategy: Why Terry Gou chose to never compete with clients, focusing on vertical integration instead [25:00] Tony Blevins' ruthless negotiations: "We don't have time for you to read the contract. You just need to sign it now" [26:45] The "Apple Squeeze" revealed: "We won't pay you much, but the experience will be invaluable" [28:27] Staggering impact: Apple trained 28 million people - greater than California's labor force, 6x Singapore's population [34:03] The Gang of Eight: Apple's first senior team living in China to navigate political pressures [41:45] Chinese dominance: Huawei, Xiaomi, and others now control 55% of global smartphone market share [48:08] Apple's double whammy: Supply Chain locked in China and TSMC [52:37] Apple's impossible balancing act in India: "Go too fast, risk Beijing's ire. Go too slow, remain stuck" [53:11] Jackie Haynes tragedy: Apple's failed attempt to improve worker conditions caught between operational demands and Xi Jinping's crackdown [57:09] Closing Profile: Patrick McGee, Author of "Apple in China": https://appleinchina.com and San Francisco correspondent for Financial Times LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/prmcgee/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Analys1eAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288