PAPod 612 - Speak Up or Stay Silent: Amy Edmondson on Psychological Safety

This episode explores the promises and pitfalls of AI in safety work, centered on the book The AI Paradox in Safety by Brent Sutton and Brent Robinson. Todd and Brent discuss how AI can either amplify blame and surveillance or enable learning and improvement, and why organizational culture shapes which path wins. Topics include surveillance concerns (Flock cameras, wearables), AI amplifying existing culture, neurodiversity, leader assurance questions, and practical advice for using AI to listen to frontline workers rather than punish them.

This episode argues that meaningful improvement rarely happens overnight. Big-bang rollouts and sudden change cause chaos, bugs, and unintended consequences, while slow, incremental implementations let organizations prototype, find hidden flaws, build buy-in, and protect core operations. The host reflects on a difficult personal week and reminds listeners that steady, small steps — passo y paso — are the reliable path to safer, more resilient organizations. Be kind, be patient, and be safe.

In this episode Todd Conklin talks with David Keeling, Assistant Secretary of Labor for Occupational Safety and Health, about OSHA’s shift toward partnership, refreshing VPP, the new Safety Champions program, and focusing on serious injuries and fatalities (SIF). They discuss mental health, vehicle safety, leadership’s role, predictive analytics, and incentives to drive abatement and innovation so employers and regulators can work together to prevent catastrophic events.

Todd joins James Newman and Ken Madsen on a special excerpt from the Counter-Errorism podcast to discuss productive safety, leadership change, and how investigations should inform solutions rather than impose them. They cover practical ideas: shifting leaders' thinking, treating workers as problem-solvers, using judgments of need, and how DOE-style investigations differ from industry practices.

Todd Conklin hosts Jen Long on the Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast to introduce "accountability labs": practical, small-group exercises that help teams practice having each other’s back instead of weaponizing blame. The episode explains how labs create psychological safety and readiness through real scenarios, skill-building, and debriefs so participants develop the language and muscle memory to speak up when it matters. Listeners will learn who benefits (middle managers, safety teams, healthcare, operations), what to expect from a lab, and the promise—and risks—of turning accountability into a sustained, constructive practice.

Host Todd talks with safety professional and singer-songwriter Toni Vere about human and organizational performance (HOP), accountability, and the power of fixing systems instead of blaming people. Toni performs "Don't Shoot the Dog," a song that turns shop‑floor experience and worker expertise into a memorable lesson on creating safer, smarter workplaces.

Host Todd Conklin chats with Harvard’s Amy Edmondson about psychological safety, learning from failure, and how leaders can create workplaces where people speak up and learn. They cover just culture, systems thinking, and practical steps to choose curiosity over certainty. This warm, wide-ranging conversation blends research with real-world stories and leaves listeners with a clear call to action: build environments that support candid dialogue and collective learning.

Part two of a deep conversation with Professor David Woods examines five decades of safety practice and argues for a stronger science base, foresight, and continual revitalization. Topics include the Command–Adapt Paradox, the fluency law, the law of stretch systems, and the novelty inequality, showing why plans must be paired with guided adaptability. The episode urges putting safe and effective outcomes first, working together to innovate, and rebuilding practical tools and research so safety programs scale and adapt in an increasingly complex world. Here is the cited article for your reading pleasure: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-45055-6_8#:~:text=The%20Command%E2%80%93Adapt%20Paradox%20arises,%E2%80%9D%E2%80%94being%20poised%20to%20adapt.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-45055-6_8#:~:text=The%20Command%E2%80%93Adapt%20Paradox%20arises,%E2%80%9D%E2%80%94being%20poised%20to%20adapt. Todd hosts Dr. David Woods in a two-part episode challenging the current state of safety science, arguing for more synthesis across disciplines and a shift from one-off fixes to ongoing capacity for safe, effective, and viable organizations. They examine the history and fragmentation of safety work, the rise of resilience thinking, barriers like short-term pressure and limited budgets, and why the safety community must collaborate to create stronger, long-term approaches.

Join Ra Donda Vought and Todd Conklin and they meet up to discuss how Ra Donda has refined her message to the world and how surprised she is in other, non-medical industry.  It is always so much fun to talk with Ra Donda - she has great energy and is so much fun to spend time in discussion.   See what you think - I think you will enjoy this Pod a bunch.