PAPod 621 - March 2015 - Safety Differently: Sidney Decker on Moving Beyond Blame

Dr. Todd Conklin interviews Dr. Sidney Decker about his work on safety, accountability, and just culture. They discuss the Safety Differently approach: viewing people as solutions, addressing work conditions rather than behavior, and shifting from retributive to restorative justice. Decker also covers cultural differences in safety practices across regions, the rise of compliance, and offers practical advice for safety and human factors professionals on understanding why actions made sense in context. This is an historic podcast - enjoy the listen.

Host Todd Conklin visits Golden Gate National Recreation Area with safety specialists Rik Hansen and Leo Shea to explore a shift in safety thinking — from focusing on risk to supporting mission performance. They discuss visits to Alcatraz, Ocean Rescue teams, and Trail Crews, highlighting how listening to frontline workers reveals practical, predictive knowledge. The episode emphasizes building relationships, staying curious and adaptable, and treating expertise and wellness as core parts of a safety program. Real-world stories from lifeguards and park teams show how pre-planning, shared language, and workforce engagement improve reliability and resilience.

In this episode, Todd explores the evolution of safety thinking—from blaming human error to creating systems that support reliable work. He discusses the normalization of deviance versus a deliberate shift toward a normalization of excellence, learning teams, and practical examples of redesigning work to prevent repeats of incidents. Through conversations about AI-created interviews, Southwest Airlines' practices, and Case studies, Todd emphasizes treating error as normal, asking better questions, and designing systems that make work safer and more effective.

This episode explores the promises and pitfalls of AI in safety work, centered on the book The AI Paradox in Safety by Brent Sutton and Brent Robinson. Todd and Brent discuss how AI can either amplify blame and surveillance or enable learning and improvement, and why organizational culture shapes which path wins. Topics include surveillance concerns (Flock cameras, wearables), AI amplifying existing culture, neurodiversity, leader assurance questions, and practical advice for using AI to listen to frontline workers rather than punish them.

This episode argues that meaningful improvement rarely happens overnight. Big-bang rollouts and sudden change cause chaos, bugs, and unintended consequences, while slow, incremental implementations let organizations prototype, find hidden flaws, build buy-in, and protect core operations. The host reflects on a difficult personal week and reminds listeners that steady, small steps — passo y paso — are the reliable path to safer, more resilient organizations. Be kind, be patient, and be safe.

In this episode Todd Conklin talks with David Keeling, Assistant Secretary of Labor for Occupational Safety and Health, about OSHA’s shift toward partnership, refreshing VPP, the new Safety Champions program, and focusing on serious injuries and fatalities (SIF). They discuss mental health, vehicle safety, leadership’s role, predictive analytics, and incentives to drive abatement and innovation so employers and regulators can work together to prevent catastrophic events.

Todd joins James Newman and Ken Madsen on a special excerpt from the Counter-Errorism podcast to discuss productive safety, leadership change, and how investigations should inform solutions rather than impose them. They cover practical ideas: shifting leaders' thinking, treating workers as problem-solvers, using judgments of need, and how DOE-style investigations differ from industry practices.

Todd Conklin hosts Jen Long on the Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast to introduce "accountability labs": practical, small-group exercises that help teams practice having each other’s back instead of weaponizing blame. The episode explains how labs create psychological safety and readiness through real scenarios, skill-building, and debriefs so participants develop the language and muscle memory to speak up when it matters. Listeners will learn who benefits (middle managers, safety teams, healthcare, operations), what to expect from a lab, and the promise—and risks—of turning accountability into a sustained, constructive practice.

Host Todd talks with safety professional and singer-songwriter Toni Vere about human and organizational performance (HOP), accountability, and the power of fixing systems instead of blaming people. Toni performs "Don't Shoot the Dog," a song that turns shop‑floor experience and worker expertise into a memorable lesson on creating safer, smarter workplaces.

Host Todd Conklin chats with Harvard’s Amy Edmondson about psychological safety, learning from failure, and how leaders can create workplaces where people speak up and learn. They cover just culture, systems thinking, and practical steps to choose curiosity over certainty. This warm, wide-ranging conversation blends research with real-world stories and leaves listeners with a clear call to action: build environments that support candid dialogue and collective learning.