393: Why does wine play a central role in the Bible and our culture, symbolizing abundance and joy, and not other food or drink? Dr. Mark Scarlata shares the story

Can Bordeaux adapt to changing wine tastes without losing its identity? Bordeaux is pulling up thousands of hectares of vines because of overproduction. How does Mouton Cadet's model offer a way out for some wine growers? How are modern Bordeaux producers, like Mouton Cadet, creating wines with more energy, smoothness, and drinkability for today's consumers? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Véronique Hombroekx, the Managing Director for the Mouton Cadet Brand and Jérôme Aguirre, Director, Mouton Cadet Wines, about their Fair for Life program. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Highlights Why did Canada become one of the first markets chosen for Mouton Cadet's Fair for Life launch? What does the success of Fair for Life wines in Canada reveal about today's wine consumers? Why does Veronique see consumer support as a direct investment in the future of winegrowers? How is Mouton Cadet helping consumers understand what the Fair for Life certification means? Why does Veronique view consumer confusion between Fair for Life and Fair Trade as an opportunity rather than a problem? Why does Veronique believe Bordeaux still faces difficult challenges despite signs of optimism? How are changing consumer preferences forcing Bordeaux to rethink its traditional style of wine? Why do Veronique and Jérôme believe curiosity and humility are essential to Bordeaux's future? How is Mouton Cadet helping growers become more resilient instead of pulling out vineyards? Why is maintaining 30% organic vineyards more realistic than pursuing organic conversion at any cost? What does Jérôme mean when he says the 2022 vintage is "singing" while the 2023 vintage is "dancing"? If Veronique could summarize Fair for Life in a single sentence, what would she want consumers to understand?   About Mouton Cadet's Fair for Life Certification The Fair for Life fair-trade certification scheme officially recognises Mouton Cadet's commitment and makes them unique in Bordeaux. The aim of this certification is to pursue existing initiatives with their winegrowers in response to a range of challenges: economic (more resilient operating models), environmental (support for the agroecological transition) and social (training, transmission of skills). Each bottle of Mouton Cadet with the Fair for Life label bears witness to the combination of a shared passion and a long-term commitment.           To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/396.

Why did the Bordeaux wine Mouton Cadet decide that sustainability needed to include people, not just the environment? Why is the Fair for Life certification that's focused on people, community, and respect the environment a perfect fit for Mouton Cadet? What does it mean to create trust with more than 100 grape growers that lasts for generations? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Véronique Hombroekx, the Managing Director for the Mouton Cadet Brand and Jérôme Aguirre, Director, Mouton Cadet Wines, about their Fair for Life program. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Highlights What made Veronique believe fair trade principles could work for a Bordeaux wine brand on the scale of Mouton Cadet? Why did a small Fair for Life label on another Bordeaux wine inspire a major change at Mouton Cadet? What was missing from Mouton Cadet's sustainability strategy before Fair for Life was introduced? Why did Mouton Cadet choose its flagship Rouge to carry the Fair for Life certification? What does it actually mean for more than 100 independent winegrowers to be part of the "Mouton Cadet family"? How do long-term contracts and above-market pricing help growers plan for the future? What happens during a typical vineyard visit between Mouton Cadet's technical team and its growers? How is technology helping growers make better decisions while reducing their reliance on pesticides? Why do the growers themselves decide how the Fair for Life development fund is invested? How are growers using shared data and cost-management tools to improve their businesses? Why has climate adaptation become one of the most urgent challenges facing Bordeaux winegrowers? How can supporting growers beyond the vineyard ultimately lead to better wine in the bottle?   About Mouton Cadet's Fair for Life Certification The Fair for Life fair-trade certification scheme officially recognises Mouton Cadet's commitment and makes them unique in Bordeaux. The aim of this certification is to pursue existing initiatives with their winegrowers in response to a range of challenges: economic (more resilient operating models), environmental (support for the agroecological transition) and social (training, transmission of skills). Each bottle of Mouton Cadet with the Fair for Life label bears witness to the combination of a shared passion and a long-term commitment.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/395.

How did wine transform biblical meals into symbols of the covenant in the ancient world? Why did overflowing vineyards and giant clusters of grapes become such powerful symbols of the Promised Land? Why did religious leaders label Jesus a glutton, a drunkard, and a friend of sinners? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Professor Mark Scarlata, author of Wine, Soil, and Salvation in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Highlights What makes the Bible's first meal with bread and wine so significant? Why does the "cup of salvation" become one of the Bible's most enduring images? How did wine become the ultimate symbol of communion in the Christian faith? Why did the spies return from the Promised Land carrying an enormous cluster of grapes? Why do biblical visions of salvation so often involve overflowing wine and lavish feasts? Why was abundant wine associated with the coming of the Messiah? What was Jesus communicating by turning water into wine at Cana? How did the prophets transform the "cup of salvation" into a symbol of judgment? Does Proverbs contain what may be the world's first hangover story? Why was Jesus accused of being a drunkard and a friend of sinners? What does Jesus really mean by new wine and old wineskins? What does the terrifying winepress imagery in Revelation actually symbolize? If Mark could share a bottle of wine with anyone in history, why would he choose Moses? What can wine teach us about humanity, community, and our connection to the world around us?   About Mark Scarlata Mark Scarlata is Senior Lecturer in Old Testament at St. Mellitus College, London. He is also the Vicar-Chaplain at St. Edward, King and Martyr, Cambridge, and the Director of the St. Edward's Institute for Christian Thought. He has spoken on wine and faith internationally and continues to write on the subject.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/394.

How does biking through wine country help you better understand the wines? Why has wine held a unique place in the Bible and our culture when so many other foods like milk, olive oil, honey, dates, and pomegranates symbolize abundance and blessing? How do the aromas and complexity of wine create such deep connections to memory in the brain? Why do so many people feel disconnected in modern life despite being more connected than ever? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Professor Mark Scarlata, author of the new book Wine, Soil, and Salvation in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Highlights What did cycling through French wine country teach Mark about the connection between wine, land, and place? Why did a biblical scholar decide to write a book about wine? What surprised Mark most when he began researching wine in the Bible? Why are wine, soil, and salvation so closely connected in Mark's understanding of scripture? What does Noah's transformation into a "man of the soil" reveal? Why do some commentators criticize Noah's drunkenness when the biblical text itself seems far less concerned with it? What happens when wine is treated as a symbol of community and celebration rather than a source of status and exclusivity? How do wine's aromas connect with the brain and our memories? Why does Mark think modern life leaves people feeling increasingly disconnected from the places where they live? How did wine become such an ordinary yet essential part of daily life in the ancient world?   About Mark Scarlata Mark Scarlata is Senior Lecturer in Old Testament at St. Mellitus College, London. He is also the Vicar-Chaplain at St. Edward, King and Martyr, Cambridge, and the Director of the St. Edward's Institute for Christian Thought. He has spoken on wine and faith internationally and continues to write on the subject.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/393.

What makes a properly made mint julep much more complex than people expect? How did an Indian revolutionary leader end up creating one of Japan's most famous curry recipes? How did a recipe collected during a 1930s concert tour in Indonesia become the legendary Queen Mother's Cake, different from every other chocolate cake you've ever had? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with James Chatto, co-author of the terrific new book Acquired Tastes: The Lives and Recipes of Eight Culinary Ambassadors. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of James Chatto's new book, Acquired Tastes: The Lives and Recipes of Eight Culinary Ambassadors. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights What makes the mint julep tradition at Oxford both fascinating and deeply complicated? Why did a simple rum drink discovered in Cuba become one of America's most iconic cocktails? What hidden history was uncovered behind the luxurious dish Lobster Newberg? How did a Bengali revolutionary leave a lasting mark on Japanese curry culture? What made Jan Smeterlin's chocolate cake unforgettable enough to become a royal favorite? Why does James believe food is such a powerful and lasting carrier of memory? Which story in the book seemed so improbable that James doubted it until the historical evidence confirmed it? What personal objects would James choose to display in a museum about his life?   About James Chatto James Chatto read English at New College, Oxford, before becoming an actor and musician; today, he is one of Canada's best-known writers on the subjects of food and drink. He has written seven books, including A Kitchen in Corfu, the best-selling A Matter of Taste (with Lucy Waverman) and two memoirs, The Man Who Ate Toronto and The Greek for Love. As a journalist, he spent decades as Toronto Life's restaurant columnist, Senior Editor of the LCBO's magazine, Food & Drink, and editor of harry magazine; his writing has appeared in dozens of publications in Canada, the U.S. and the U.K. A co-founder of the Canadian Culinary Championship, he is a Chevalier of the Confrérie des Chevaliers du Taste Fromage de France, and a Freeman of Corfu Town. He is a puppetmaker.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/392.

What did lasagna taste like in Renaissance Italy before tomatoes and ragù became standard? Why are some of Thailand's most iconic royal desserts rooted in Portuguese convent recipes? How did a chance conversation at dinner unexpectedly unlock hidden pieces of food history? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with James Chatto, co-author of the terrific new book Acquired Tastes: The Lives and Recipes of Eight Culinary Ambassadors. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of James Chatto's new book, Acquired Tastes: The Lives and Recipes of Eight Culinary Ambassadors. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights Why did James transition from acting and music into a career as a food writer? What did James learn from his godfather, Robert Morley, about why food writing is ultimately about people? What inspired James, Wendy, and their historian son to structure Acquired Tastes around real people who carried recipes from one culture into another? How did Renaissance Italians make lasagna with and why did James find the recipe so unexpectedly delicious? What memorable kitchen disaster turned a promising chocolate cake into something "dry as chalk"? Who was Maria Guyomar de Pinha and how did she become a key figure in Thai royal desserts? What do you need to know about the Thai dessert foi thong and its history? Why does James believe recipes certain recipes have survived for centuries? Who was Queen Bona Sforza and how did she influence Polish food culture? What coincidence connected James with a modern Italian wine importer whose hometown still preserves Queen Bona's legacy centuries later?   About James Chatto James Chatto read English at New College, Oxford, before becoming an actor and musician; today, he is one of Canada's best-known writers on the subjects of food and drink. He has written seven books, including A Kitchen in Corfu, the best-selling A Matter of Taste (with Lucy Waverman) and two memoirs, The Man Who Ate Toronto and The Greek for Love. As a journalist, he spent decades as Toronto Life's restaurant columnist, Senior Editor of the LCBO's magazine, Food & Drink, and editor of harry magazine; his writing has appeared in dozens of publications in Canada, the U.S. and the U.K. A co-founder of the Canadian Culinary Championship, he is a Chevalier of the Confrérie des Chevaliers du Taste Fromage de France, and a Freeman of Corfu Town. He is a puppetmaker.           To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/391.

What's the difference between drinking for pleasure and drinking for relief? How does your body's early reaction to alcohol predict your long-term risk of developing alcohol dependence? How do some people drink heavily for years without developing the same dependence that others struggle to escape? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Dr. Charles Knowles, author of Why We Drink Too Much: The New Science of Alcohol. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of Charles Knowles' new book, Why We Drink Too Much: The New Science of Alcohol. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights When does alcohol shift from a social choice into biological dependence? Why can people with alcohol dependence end up drinking more for relief than for pleasure? How do certain environments become powerful craving cues? Why is being able to drink heavily without hangovers considered a major risk factor? Why do some people experience alcohol as intensely stimulating rather than merely relaxing? How did long-term studies of teenagers predict future alcoholism? Why is there still no meaningful genetic test for alcohol dependence? What behavioral signs can reveal a heightened vulnerability to problematic drinking? Why does alcohol dependence often appear in highly driven professions? Why does Charles believe that people with alcohol dependence can never safely return to drinking? What convinced Charles that he could never drink again? Why does Charles believe recovery depends on changing thinking patterns?   About Charles Knowles Michael Finnerty is a cheesemonger, journalist, and author based in both London, UK, and Montreal. After almost 30 years of success and acclaim working for the CBC, BBC, and The Guardian, he found joy and a new life selling cheese at London's iconic Borough Market. Mike has a weekly column on Pénélope on Radio-Canada, works part-time at Global Montreal, but for most of the year, you can find him slinging cheese with the other mongers. Critically acclaimed, The Cheese Cure is his first book.           To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/390.

What can your first experiences with alcohol tell you about the relationship you'll have with it later in life? Are we fighting with our own biology when it comes to alcohol? Why is moderation impossible for some people? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Dr. Charles Knowles, author of Why We Drink Too Much: The New Science of Alcohol. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of Charles Knowles' new book, Why We Drink Too Much: The New Science of Alcohol. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights How did Charles' initial attempt at a memoir expand to explore the science behind why we drink alcohol? Why did Charles feel it was essential to present alcohol research without oversimplifying? Why does he reject both anti-alcohol evangelism? What can early experiences with alcohol reveal about future risk of developing a problematic relationship with it? How does alcohol act as a social lubricant for some people? What's the connection between human evolution and alcohol as the world's oldest and most widely used drug? What was alcohol's role in early human societies? What distinguishes alcohol dependence from gray area drinking? Which aspects of drinking increase the risk of developing a problematic relationship with alcohol? Why does the brain's reward system prioritize alcohol over other needs? What is the default mode network, and why does alcohol's ability to quiet repetitive negative thinking make it so reinforcing?   About Charles Knowles Charles Knowles is Professor of Surgery at Queen Mary University of London and a colorectal surgeon. He is author of the book "Why We Drink Too Much: The New Science of Alcohol" which was published by Macmillan in the UK, Commonwealth, US and Canada in January 2026. The book entwines his own journey with an understanding of the effects of alcohol in the body and brain, and how this informs rational approaches to stopping or moderating consumption.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/389.

Why does buying from a good cheese shop often beat picking up a wedge from the supermarket? How do people underestimate the physical labor and other demands of being a cheesemonger? How does using a cheese iron reveal where a wheel of cheese is in its life? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Michael Finnerty, author of the terrific new book The Cheese Cure: How Comté and Camembert Fed My Soul. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of Michael Finnerty's new book, The Cheese Cure: How Comté and Camembert Fed My Soul. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights Why do so many people underestimate the physical labor and other demands behind life as a cheesemonger? How does using a cheese iron reveal where a wheel is in its life? Why can two wheels of the same Comté taste noticeably different? How do grading systems help protect cheese quality? Why do locally made cheeses sometimes outperform famous imported cheeses? What are the advantages of visiting a cheese shop over supermarkets and bulk retailers? How do cheesemongers tell the difference between a cheese that is flawed and one that is stronger than their taste preferences? What causes washed rind cheeses to develop those famously funky aromas? What made the Hervé Mons 1924 Bleu so unforgettable that Michael describes it as a narcotic cheese? Why should you always taste a cheese before buying it?   About Michael Finnerty Michael Finnerty is a cheesemonger, journalist, and author based in both London, UK, and Montreal. After almost 30 years of success and acclaim working for the CBC, BBC, and The Guardian, he found joy and a new life selling cheese at London's iconic Borough Market. Mike has a weekly column on Pénélope on Radio-Canada, works part-time at Global Montreal, but for most of the year, you can find him slinging cheese with the other mongers. Critically acclaimed, The Cheese Cure is his first book.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/388.

Why do some wine and cheese pairings taste better together than either one alone? Why do some wines collapse when paired with certain cheeses? What will surprise you about cheese that's similar to wine? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Michael Finnerty, author of the terrific new book The Cheese Cure: How Comté and Camembert Fed My Soul. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of Michael Finnerty's new book, The Cheese Cure: How Comté and Camembert Fed My Soul. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights Why do some wine and cheese pairings taste better together than alone? Why did a natural red wine collapse when paired with Camembert? How do acidity and bubbles transform rich cheese? How does cheese age differently from wine? Why do tyrosine crystals in aged cheese create both crunch and pleasure? Why can older cheeses develop surprising flavors like rum and raisin rather than simply becoming sharper or saltier? How do cheese appellations work, and why are names like Roquefort or Parmigiano legally tied to place? What is the difference between a cheesemonger and an affineur? How did Michael Finnerty's midlife pivot from journalism to selling cheese begin? Why did selling cheese feel more meaningful to Michael than covering wars, elections, and other major news events? What makes Borough Market special beyond the food itself?   Key Takeaways Why do some wine and cheese pairings taste better together than either one alone? I had tasted a medium bodied wine with some nice minerality that also had some savoury notes and some citrusy notes. When you paired it up with the Ossau-Iraty, which is a higher fat cheese, the two of them paired together, one lifted the other. It was just that perfect example of how when you hit a pairing right, when you're spot on, the wine is improved and the cheese improved. Both are lifted. Why do some wines collapse when paired with certain cheeses? So we were tasting a red, it was bright and fruity. And then we had some Camembert. And Camembert is a big cheese and it's a hard cheese to pair. It's more pungent than Brie. For me, it has a real garlicky side to it. It's always going to depend on where it is on its little journey in life. which is much shorter, obviously, than a bottle of wine's. But when you get a Camembert that starts to get riper, it is going to have a quite a punch and quite a garlicky taste. With this natural red and Camembert, both started to taste not very nice to be honest. What else do you think wine and cheese share that might surprise us? First of all, if people didn't realize that cheeses have appellations as well, which are granted based on applications that are made to a central authority. That comes with what the French call a cahier des charges, so kind of a manual on how to make the cheese. The first one having been in 1925, now there's loads of appellations. And they're not just French cheeses. Of course, things like Parmigiano are appellations as are raclette in Switzerland. You'll get some cheeses that like, for instance, Brie. Those are going to be loads of Brie, but there's only one Brie de Meaux, which is the appellation.   About Michael Finnerty Michael Finnerty is a cheesemonger, journalist, and author based in both London, UK, and Montreal. After almost 30 years of success and acclaim working for the CBC, BBC, and The Guardian, he found joy and a new life selling cheese at London's iconic Borough Market. Mike has a weekly column on Pénélope on Radio-Canada, works part-time at Global Montreal, but for most of the year, you can find him slinging cheese with the other mongers. Critically acclaimed, The Cheese Cure is his first book.       To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/387.