Oaktree Sees Private Credit Stress as Excitement Grows

As commercial real estate continues to menace banks and investors, Goldman Sachs Asset Management is leaning into the debt. “What we’ve been able to do is find a lot of opportunities in commercial mortgage-backed securities,” Lindsay Rosner, head of multi-sector investing at the company, told Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence credit analyst Jody Lurie in the latest Credit Edge podcast. “It’s a good portion of our portfolio, and we think it generates a decent amount of carry.” In this episode, Rosner and Lurie also debate the outlook for retail and leisure sector companies as lower-income US consumers come under pressure.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Funding companies with unsustainable debt loads has been “the best opportunity in the corporate credit market over the last year or two,” Jimmy Levin, Sculptor Capital Management’s chief investment officer, says in Bloomberg Intelligence’s Credit Edge podcast. Separately, Sculptor expects substantial growth in asset-based finance, where Levin sees double-digit returns, he tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Irene Garcia Perez, and BI credit analyst Stephane Kovatchev. Also in this episode, Levin and Kovatchev discuss the outlook for rates, the resilience of US consumers and positioning in the debt of cyclical industrial companies. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Norinchukin Bank faces significant losses from the sale of US and European sovereign bonds that tumbled as interest rates rose, and other financial institutions may also be exposed. “The bank is still losing more than a billion dollars a quarter,” says Bloomberg Intelligence senior credit analyst Pri de Silva, referring to the Japanese agricultural bank also known as Nochu. “They need to rip that band aid off and address negative carry in the securities portfolio,” de Silva tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie in the latest Credit Edge podcast. De Silva also weighs the outlook for Asia’s Additional Tier 1 bond market, where risk premia are shrinking as supply evaporates. Also in this episode, Mary Ellen Olson, senior credit analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, discusses the turnaround at India’s Vedanta, which may tap the US dollar bond market, as well as the impact of China’s economic slowdown on Asian miners. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lending to law firms against portfolios of legal assets can generate hefty returns, according to North Wall Capital, the London-based credit investor. “We target 25%-plus IRRs, and we have historically outperformed that,” Fabian Chrobog, its chief investment officer and founder, says in Bloomberg Intelligence’s Credit Edge podcast. Separately, North Wall aims to make “mid teens” gains in middle-market private credit, Chrobog tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and BI senior credit analyst Tolu Alamutu. Also in this episode, Chrobog and Alamutu discuss creditor protections, real estate opportunity and the advantages of geographical diversification. “I can see the returns in the US decreasing while I can see still some really interesting opportunities in Europe,” says Chrobog. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

AllianceBernstein sees opportunity in European and emerging market credit markets and is steering clear of energy sector debt. “High-quality European high yield, on a dollar-hedged basis, is attractive,” Will Smith, director of U.S. high-yield credit at AllianceBernstein, says in the latest Credit Edge podcast from Bloomberg Intelligence. In EM corporate bonds, “you’re getting paid a lot more risk premium there — a lot more in spreads than you are in developed market credit markets,” Smith tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence senior credit analyst Spencer Cutter. Smith and Cutter also discuss relative value and risks in oil and gas company debt. “Your antenna goes off when energy companies start returning capital to shareholders,” says Smith. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There are potential catalysts for the debt of cruise lines like Carnival and Royal Caribbean, as well as Rolls Royce and Ford, according to Bloomberg Intelligence. BI senior analysts Stephen Flynn and Aidan Cheslin join James Crombie of Bloomberg News in this edition of BI’s Credit Edge podcast to discuss the outlook for US and European credit, identifying situations where their teams’ research differs with consensus. UBS and Jaguar Land Rover have bonds trading wide to peers that could tighten, while others like Disney and Chesapeake face significant headwinds. Flynn and Cheslin also discuss the macroeconomic and geopolitical outlook and risks of a broad credit-market correction. “There seems to be a lack of confidence in the rarefied valuation levels we’re at,” said Cheslin. “That’s something that can unwind pretty quickly.” Please note: The Credit Edge podcast is going on vacation, and won’t be published Aug. 8. The next episode will be on Aug. 15.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Small-cap US companies are at risk of default as debt comes due and the economy slows, according to Alan McKnight chief investment officer at Regions Bank. “Look at the Russell 2000 — over 50% of those names are non-earners right now. They’re actually unprofitable,” McKnight says in the latest Credit Edge podcast from Bloomberg Intelligence. “There’s a lot of names in that sort of realm that could be on the tipping point, particularly in light of when they have to refinance their debt,” he tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence credit analyst Matthew Geudtner. McKnight sees particular stress on companies exposed to low-income US consumers. McKnight and Geudtner also discuss opportunities in the industrial and defense sectors, including major borrowers like Honeywell and Lockheed Martin. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Antares Capital, the US-based private credit firm, is looking to expand in Europe and also sees opportunity in real estate, infrastructure and asset-backed finance. “In order to scale, we’d probably need to do an acquisition,” Tim Lyne, the direct lender’s chief executive officer, says in the latest Credit Edge podcast from Bloomberg Intelligence. “We are constantly evaluating Europe,” he tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence senior credit analyst David Havens. Lyne and Havens also discuss Antares’ funding strategy, areas of market stress, fundraising and the broadening of the private credit investor base. “You’re beginning to see this democratization of the asset class,” says Lyne.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

 Politics and commercial real estate are the biggest perils for banks, according to Bloomberg Intelligence senior credit analysts Arnold Kakuda and Jeroen Julius. “In terms of CRE, it hits mostly the smaller regional banks,” Kakuda tells Bloomberg News senior editor James Crombie in the latest Credit Edge podcast from Bloomberg Intelligence. “If the sovereign rating comes down or is put on negative outlook, bank ratings are likely to follow,” Julius says, referring to European financial institutions. In addition, Julius and Kakuda debate unrealized losses sitting on balance sheets, consolidation, regulation and the outlook for more bank bond issuance. They also weigh opportunities in Additional Tier 1 and preferred debt. “You get high-yield returns for IG risk,” says Kakuda, speaking of the latter. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Private credit markets are under pressure from high interest rates, while excess demand is keeping spreads low, according to Wayne Dahl, co-portfolio manager for Oaktree’s global credit and investment grade solutions strategies. “I think there will be some general stress,” says Dahl in the latest Credit Edge podcast from Bloomberg Intelligence. “When people get excited, they put money in — the end investor has no choice but to invest that, and therefore you’ll maybe see spreads compress a little bit more than would otherwise be warranted,” Dahl tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and BI Senior Credit Analyst Mike Holland. Also in this episode, Dahl and Holland discuss risk in the health care sector, as well as opportunities in consumer staples, insurance and securitized credit. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.