John Heilemann: Trump will Pay at the Ballot Box

John Heilemann thinks it’s time for America to change the channel on President Trump. The “Impolitic” podcast host and chief political columnist at Puck sees the Commander for what he is: a “loser” for the Republican party using the White House as a “giant profit-making self-enrichment grift.” He and Nicolle discuss Trump’s various attempts to interfere with American elections, reflect on “Game Change” — the Heilemann co-penned book that was turned into a 2012 film starring Sarah Paulson as Nicolle Wallace — and reminisce about their time together on-air. They also discuss exponentially growing technological threats as AI figureheads begin sounding the alarm about their own products and discuss how, ironically, this could be the nonpartisan issue to mend a divided political climate. “I think it’s going to reshape our politics,” says Heilemann, noting that, for all of its terrifying implications, “it’s an enormous opportunity, politically” for whoever can take the lead. A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Dan Harris knows that the most important fight is the one happening within. Reflecting on his journey of self-regulation, the former ABC anchor recalls a news report on Good Morning America on a warm June morning in 2004 where he — very publicly — had a panic attack live on-air. It was a huge wake up call for Harris, he says. “I realized I needed to change my life.” More than two decades later, the “10% Happier” podcast host joins Nicolle days after the debut of his two new series: MS NOW’s “The Week in Sanity” and “Never Worry Alone.” They discuss the benefits of meditation, argue against the toxicity of modern wellness culture and assert that despair is one of the enemies of democracy. In an anxious and polarized political climate, Harris encourages people to lean on each other, noting that “trying to do it alone is a really reliable route to suffering.” In fact, if salvation exists from pessimism about the future, it’s in the form of love. “When you do good, it feels good.”“The Week in Sanity” and “Never Worry Alone” are available to MS NOW Members. Become an MS NOW Member by visiting ms.now/membership.A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Julia Curlee brings stories of a remarkable career, recounting her time as a CIA analyst and as an intelligence briefer for Vice President Mike Pence. She begins, however, by talking about the most “unremarkable” aspects of her tenure: up until she was fired in 2025 by the Trump administration for being transgender, Curlee recalls a tolerant government and a good working relationship with Pence. The former Vice President “used the intelligence community the way it was designed,” she tells Nicolle, as opposed to some current intelligence personnel who concern themselves only with “providing the president with information that he wants to hear.” She points to this shift as one of many examples of how the second Trump term is exponentially more dangerous than the first, addressing the United States’ declining international reputation amidst the war in Iran and the ways in which the government uses internal division as a tool to distract from their failure to improve the lives of Americans. And still, she refuses to stand down in the fight to preserve democracy: “This is my country, too.” Here is Julia’s piece in The Atlantic: The Wrong Kind of AmericanA Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week, we’re revisiting an episode we recorded back in May with MSNOW’s own Chris Hayes. Please enjoy! We’ll be back with a new episode next week. Chris Hayes’ antidote to anxiety is always curiosity. Whether on TV with "All In," on his podcast (aptly named “Why Is This Happening?”), or writing about our waning attention spans in his latest book, he looks to make sense of this era’s firehose of information by seeking out the reasons behind the very human decisions we make. This curiosity prompted a deep dive series on his podcast into artificial intelligence: "The AI End Game," tracing AI's evolution to how it will impact our democracy and what guardrails need to be applied. This week, Chris joins Nicolle to talk about how Democrats can rebuild faith in government in a “low trust” democracy, what we can learn from our political past “while not being obsessed with it and trapped in it” and what deeper questions we should be asking about AI. And in his search to understand this technology, he discovered an unintended source of inspiration because “it brings us back in some ways to what we find beautiful and thrilling about being human.” Search "Why Is This Happening? The Chris Hayes Podcast" to listen to the full series, "The AI End Game." A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Tim Miller has some ideas about how Democrats can seize this moment as President Trump’s poll numbers continue to decline. A GOP strategist turned never-Trumper, the host of “The Bulwark Daily” podcast now commits himself to dispelling the MAGA myth full time. “Hopefully, that ripples out in a way that’s useful,” he says. He and Nicolle identify a shift in Trump’s more casual supporters, as the manosphere sours on the president and Tim hears MAGA focus group participants acknowledge that Trump “doesn't seem like he's focused on me at all." Miller also challenges center-left Democratic politicians to identify which faults of the party allowed Trump to win a second term (“What’s on your red hat?”). Looking to the midterms and the start of the presidential race next year, Miller says that the “scariest” half of the Trump presidency lies ahead — and we’ll need to stay sharp. “Take a vacation,” he tells Nicolle. “We’re gonna have so much work to do.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Tim Snyder sees through the myth of President Trump’s strength. “He’s not actually strong,” the “On Tyranny” author and historian tells Nicolle, likening the Commander in Chief to the smoke and mirrors that build up the image of the Wizard of Oz. “He’s not actually even that good at being corrupt.” As a scholar of autocracies and failed experiments in democracy, Snyder expresses his disappointment with the American disposition that freedom is guaranteed “because it’s America,” telling Nicolle that we make ourselves more vulnerable by assuming that this democracy will continue to thrive on its own. It must be protected and fought for, he argues — and Americans must take hold of the story, even if it’s uncomfortable. Stressing the importance of the midterms, his advice to voters is to act and engage: “[Trump] only wins if everybody thinks they can do nothing,” he says. “If everybody — or even most people — think that they can do a little bit, it's game over.”  A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Marc Elias is adamant: what’s dangerous in this era is that many people think President Trump’s second term is just business as usual. As the administration works to undermine fair elections ahead of the midterms, the chair of Elias Law Group and founder of “Democracy Docket” joins Nicolle to analyze Trump’s tactics — and why the Democratic party needs to stop operating on the “presumption that there is good faith” on the opposing team. In Elias’ telling, “Democrats need to be the party that is fighting corruption, is fighting the restriction of the [voting] franchise, is fighting for people to be able to influence their government.”  And while he’s concerned over what a post-midterm Trump administration might unleash, Elias makes it clear that once Trump leaves office, he won’t let the president's allies forget their mistakes — and he believes the world won’t either.   A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together.  Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brian Driscoll doesn’t have to be a “hopeful guy” — and yet, he is. A year ago, he was fired as acting director of the FBI after resisting demands to hand over the names of agents who worked on January 6 insurrection investigations. Now, the career special agent joins Nicolle to reflect on his decades-long tenure at the department and the state of the FBI under its current leadership. “The American people deserve better than any agenda can offer,” he says. “They deserve selfless service.” He talks candidly about the events leading up to his firing, the infamous clerical error that led to his promotion as acting head of the bureau and the “devastating” political retribution campaign carried out by the Trump administration against veterans of the agency. Still, Driscoll believes his former colleagues “will not fall into complacency” and stands firm on the fact that — once the fog created by the second Trump term has cleared — countless exiled public servants are standing by, ready to rebuild. A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Sue Gordon is indefatigable. Nicolle calls her a “unicorn”: a rare case of somebody who served with honor and integrity as the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence — and who Donald Trump, at least for a while, kept around. “I am for America,” Gordon says, declaring that as her North Star. Throughout her decorated career in intelligence, Gordon has always understood that telling the truth is imperative in keeping the president informed and the nation safe. She talks bluntly about the administration putting innocent people in harm’s way in Iran, calls Jay Clayton’s refusal to state that Joe Biden won the 2020 election during his confirmation hearing “100% disqualifying” and points to Trump being “more cruel” in his second term. She does not believe, however, that the president cannot be reasoned with. Taking a beat, she says: “Maybe I need to call him.” A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If historian Heather Cox Richardson ever had an agenda, it’d be protecting democracy. The history professor and author of the “Letters from an American” Substack joins Nicolle this week to consider the knock-on effects of economic pain at the grocery store and unpredictability at the podium on voter’s perception of Trumpism. She reflects on violence from ICE officers in her home state of Maine, the whiplash messaging in the war with Iran and concerns about the cyclosporiasis outbreak — which she sees as emblematic of places “where the federal government used to protect American families and are no longer.” Throughout, Richardson seamlessly adds historical context to our modern-day political struggles. And she makes it clear that we may already have what we need to recover: “What Americans are really doing in this moment is recovering their agency,” she says. “That’s a vibe shift.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.