Wrestling with Stoic Ethics: Cicero's On Ends V (Episode 183)

When life hits hard, where do you turn? Philosophy, therapy, or coaching? Michael and Caleb examine and debate the fundamental differences between these approaches to human suffering and growth.They explore why Stoicism offers a prescriptive vision of the good life while therapy remains deliberately non-judgmental. The conversation reveals when philosophy works best as preventative strength training versus therapy's role in acute crisis intervention.(00:00) Introduction: Philosophy vs Therapy(03:20) The Ancient Medical Metaphor(09:00) Different Goals: Prescriptive vs Non-judgmental(23:30) Stoicism as Preventative Training Only(27:30) When People Discover Stoicism After Crisis(32:20) Why Some Stoics Struggle with Crisis Moments(38:00) Questioning the "Solution" Mindset(42:10) Who Should Choose What Path(48:30) Practical Stoic Techniques in Daily Life(52:40) Knowing When You Don't KnowDownload the Stoa app (it's a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

In this episode, Caleb and Michael review the 2023 film "Seneca, On the Creation of Earthquakes" starring John Malkovich. They explore how the movie portrays the Roman Stoic philosopher during his final day, examining themes of hypocrisy, performance versus genuine philosophy, and the challenges of living up to Stoic ideals.(00:00:56) Background on the film(00:04:07) Overall impressions(00:08:38) Play by play of the plot(00:13:58) Discussion of Agrippina's portrayal(00:16:31) Analysis of the Thyestes play scene(00:21:00) Examination of slavery themes(00:24:15) Seneca's hypocrisy and wealth(00:27:43) Seneca's death scene(00:30:06) Theme: Can you separate philosophy from philosopher?(00:35:15) Theme: What the film says about Stoicism(00:39:53) Theme: Criticism of pointless political art***Download the Stoa app (it's a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations:https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

Should you really be reading all those "great books"? Marcus Aurelius had strong opinions about this. He repeatedly told himself to throw away his books and stop getting distracted by endless reading lists.In this episode, Caleb challenges the popular Great Books movement and explores what Marcus Aurelius would think about our obsession with reading everything. The emperor-philosopher believed reading should transform you, not just educate you. He saw most reading as distraction from the real work of living.What do you think?***Download the Stoa app (it's a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

The Stoics made claims that sounded completely crazy to regular people. Only virtue is good. All crimes are equally bad. Everyone who isn't perfectly wise is literally insane.These weren't just philosophical word games. They were deliberate provocations designed to force people to think differently about what really matters in life.Caleb and Michael break down Cicero's six famous Stoic paradoxes and explain why each one makes more sense than it first appears. You'll discover how these seemingly absurd claims reveal the radical core of Stoic thinking.(01:41) Virtue is the only good(10:06) Virtue is sufficient for happiness(13:53) All good deeds are equally virtuous and all bad deeds are equally vicious(27:16) All fools are mad(33:32) Only the wise are free(38:16) Only the wise are rich(43:47) Summary***Download the Stoa app (it's a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

Most people learn about Stoicism through the dichotomy of control. It sounds simple: focus on what's up to you, ignore what isn't. But this apparent simplicity is dangerous.The dichotomy of control becomes the lens through which people view all of Stoicism. Get it wrong, and everything else falls apart. You end up passive when you should act, frustrated when you should be patient, or convinced Stoics can't believe in cause and effect.Michael and Caleb walk through four major misunderstandings that stem from getting the dichotomy wrong. From the myth that Stoics are passive observers to the confusion about free will and determinism, these mistakes reveal how a powerful idea can be corrupted when we bring our own assumptions to ancient wisdom.(04:15) Four Confusions(11:17) The Passivity Argument(19:08) Do You Have Immediate Control?(27:45) No Trichotomy(35:58) Is the Dichotomy Incompatible With Determinism?(41:00) Wrapping Up***Subscribe to The Stoa Letter for weekly meditations, actions, and links to the best Stoic resources: www.stoaletter.com/subscribeDownload the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

Are you stressed about the future? Deep-dive into this Stoic exercise from Marcus Aurelius for living the moment, without anxiety or regret.Michael Tremblay covers the Stoic practice of circumscribing the present.***Subscribe to The Stoa Letter for weekly meditations, actions, and links to the best Stoic resources: www.stoaletter.com/subscribeDownload the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Check out our Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@stoaphilosophyThanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

Discover the philosopher who transformed Zeno from shipwrecked merchant to Stoicism's founder. While modern cynics see only self-interest, Crates lived joyfully with nothing but "a wallet and tattered cloak." This philosopher sold his inheritance, mocked social hierarchies, and treated everyone as equals—from generals to donkey drivers.Michael and Caleb explore how Crates' rejection of convention shaped Stoic philosophy. They examine the benefits of temporarily embracing cynical minimalism as a path to wisdom and why Epictetus admired these philosophical outsiders. A look at the roots of Stoic thought and the value of questioning everything.Evolve Magazine – Cultivating Wisdom and Virtue(03:05) Zeno and Crates(05:11) Crates Life(10:32) What's the point of studying philosophy(12:00) Cynic Reject of Stoicism(16:56) Flatterers(18:27) Everyone Has Flaws(19:48) Insults(21:53) Hipparchia(27:33) Joyous Philosophy(29:55) Hardcore Stoicism(32:40) Benefit of Cynicism***Subscribe to The Stoa Letter for weekly meditations, actions, and links to the best Stoic resources: www.stoaletter.com/subscribeDownload the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

In this episode, Michael Tremblay and Caleb Ontiveros explore Aristotle's ethics, focusing on his doctrine of virtue as the golden mean. They break down how Aristotle's view differs from Stoicism—from his three-part soul to his idea that virtues are skills developed through practice. Learn why Aristotle saw courage as a balance between cowardice and rashness, why feeling the right emotions matters as much as doing the right thing, and how this ancient framework applies to modern life.The conversation unpacks key concepts from Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics: habituation, the role of pleasure in virtue, and why context matters in ethical decisions.(08:29) Aristotelian Happiness(10:47) Parts of the Soul(12:44) The Kinds of Virtues(14:04) Virtue as Skill(18:39) Habituation(19:42) The Golden Mean(26:07) Good Reason For Bad Feelings(28:24) Meaning of Virtue(31:37) Self-Reinforcing Virtue(35:31) What the Golden Mean Means(45:02) Key Ideas For Practice(48:03) Differences with Stoicism*** Subscribe to The Stoa Letter for weekly meditations, actions, and links to the best Stoic resources: www.stoaletter.com/subscribeDownload the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Check out our Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@stoaphilosophyThanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

In this final exploration of Cicero's "On Ends," Michael and Caleb break down Book V, where Cicero reveals his own philosophical sweet spot – an Aristotelian-Platonic approach that challenges both Stoicism and Epicureanism.Against a backdrop of ancient Athens, Cicero's characters debate the core question: What makes a truly good human life? They navigate the middle path between Stoic rigidity (where virtue alone brings happiness) and Aristotle's elitism (where external goods are required).(01:53) Awesome Beginning(07:10) What's Our Purpose?(26:09) Supreme Happiness(31:55) Cicero's Objection(40:39) Summary***Subscribe to The Stoa Letter for weekly meditations, actions, and links to the best Stoic resources: www.stoaletter.com/subscribeDownload the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Check out our Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@stoaphilosophyThanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe

Discover the hidden gems of Stoic philosophy in this exploration of Epictetus' fragments - those powerful passages preserved by other philosophers but lost from his main works.Caleb and Michael unpack these concentrated nuggets of wisdom, from the surprising idea that we should value people by their capacity to help friends rather than harm enemies, to the famous "persist and resist" maxim that captures the essence of Stoic emotional management.Learn why terrible people are already punished by their own character, how to judge humans by their true virtue rather than superficial success, and why no one is truly free without mastering themselves.(00:00) MT: Fragments (05:18) Fragment 7: Helping Friends vs. Harming Enemies (10:43) Fragment 10: The Clean Jar - Approaching Philosophy Properly (16:19) Fragment 10: The Famous "Persist and Resist" Maxim (19:31) Fragment 13: Why Bad People Are Their Own Punishment (25:39) Fragment 18: Judging Humans by Their True Excellence (28:41) Fragment 17: The Banquet of Life (31:29) Fragment 20: Becoming Resilient to Emotions (37:04) Fragment 26: A Soul Carrying a Corpse (39:39) Fragment 35: True Freedom Through Self-Mastery***Subscribe to The Stoa Letter for weekly meditations, actions, and links to the best Stoic resources: www.stoaletter.com/subscribeDownload the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Check out our Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@stoaphilosophyThanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/ Get full access to The Stoa Letter at www.stoaletter.com/subscribe