#104: Using Her in His Addiction

In this episode, we talk about something that is fairly common yet rarely discussed:  when he uses her as a part of his addiction.  I'm listening to the episode right now (as I type the show notes), and I am on edge.  It's an important conversation and also hard to have.  Thanks for being brave and joining us for this episode. I start by sharing how important it is for there to be sexual separation for her early on in the recovery process because we can get so tangled up (as women) when sexual intimacy continues early on in the recovery process, which makes boundaries and coming back to ourselves a challenge.  This is something we, as professionals, need to ask more frequently.  Unfortunately, there is a lot of misguided and outdated information out there stating that once his sexual energy isn't expended outside the marriage, he and she can enjoy that inside the marriage.  This is a problem, as it's simply a transfer of the sexual energy from outside the marriage to inside the marriage, but not in a healthy way.  Jason and I talk through this for the first 20 or so minutes, and then I come back to this question: First Question - How do we know if this is happening in the marriage? Pressure from him to be sexual. Pressure from within herself / Do you (she) feel obligated? If the sexual intimacy feels disconnected from the other forms of intimacy. If she feels objectified, focus on more,  and/or a cavalier attitude around sexual intimacy. 1:1 transfer from the infidelity to the relationship. Second Question - What does she need to work on so that she can set boundaries and create space pertaining to sex in the marriage? Talk to someone about it. Using the 'enough is enough' muscle - we can't save him. Fortitude - strength under pressure. Getting honest about what she is experiencing in her body. See the links below for everything mentioned + more! We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8. I mention Episode #19 (Sexual Abstinence in the Recovery Process), Episode #43 (Pressure to Have Sex) and Episode #80 (The Shame She Experiences). The Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX, is SOLD OUT. Join the WaitList for the next workshop here. Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups in the New Year!  We have several starting, and you can snag all the details here. We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. Podcast Freebies can be found here. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, and online courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

Hey Guys! In this episode, we talk about preliminary boundaries.  I mentioned at the beginning of the episode that most women know boundaries are an essential part of the process and are interested in learning how to set solid boundaries.  However, fully internalizing (or embodying) boundaries takes time to engage and implement.  This is where preliminary boundaries come into play. So let's dig into preliminary boundaries.  Keep in mind that 'preliminary boundaries' refers to the preparatory work, comprising 10 questions that women need to ask themselves early on in the process.  I love Jason's qualifier around these questions he mentions for men to be aware of: women are in a free fall and are looking for handholds, and they need them early on in the process.  This isn't an indictment on him; it's not to get 'safety from the monster, it's so that she can grab onto some things as everything slips away. I also want to highlight that as we go through these questions, some of you listening who aren't at the VERY beginning of this process might feel regret (that you didn't do this or that).  Let's be curious about any pangs of regret - it might point to a need for added safety and assurance in the here and now. Here are the 10 questions: 1 - Do you want or need him to be out of the bed you guys share? 2 - Do you want or need no physical contact? 3 - Do you want or need to take sex off the table? 4 - Do you want or need to get STI/STD tested? 5 - Do you want or need him to get STI/STD tested? 6 - Do you want or need him out of the house? 7 - What do you want or need to share with your children? 8 - Do you want or need him to have supervision when he is with your children? 9 - Do you want or need to see someone who specializes in sexual integrity issues versus a generalist?  (Only one answer to this question.) 10 - Do you want or need a written full disclosure? All ten of these questions are geared toward helping you get your feet back under you, gain some protection and safety and will help with future boundary setting as you continue to heal. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8. Shelley mentioned a link to a preliminary boundary article as well as a 7-page printable. Click on the links for those two resources. Shelley also mentioned an episode regarding what to say to our children - I think I was actually thinking of this episode, which is more about protecting our children (episode #36). We need to add this to the podcast queue: what to say to our kids when this all starts to go down. The Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX, is right around the corner in January 2026. Click here for all the details. Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups in the New Year!  We have several starting, and you can snag all the details here. We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.  Shelley mentioned adding the legitimate needs list to the Podcast Freebies. You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, and online courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

Welcome back to RL Radio!     In this episode, we talk about a wife's request that he never notice another woman.  While this request might seem impossible for him to carry out, keep in mind that it's a deeper need beneath the one she is expressing.  Jason also comments that oftentimes a rhetorical question (from her) points to a statement of grief.  The question is giving expression to something deeper, usually a deeper need.   Here are the myths we discuss: Myth #1 - Noticing someone in public is the gateway to acting out. Myth #2 - Her expectations are unrealistic and completely out of line. Myth #3 - If he's doing good recovery work, he will NEVER notice another woman. And here are the truths that offset the myths: Truth #1 - His noticing is NOT the starting point.  Instead, the internal 'going-on's' are the starting points. Truth #2 - A broader sense of security is lacking, and there is an underlying need that IS valid. Truth #3 -  It's impossible for him to never 'notice others'. What we need to focus on is her deeper needs, and whether character change is happening in him.  In good recovery, it shifts (for him) from noticing with objectifying to simply seeing. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8. Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups in the New Year!  We have several starting, and you can snag all the details here. The Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX, is right around the corner in January 2026. Click here for all the details. We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team. Shelley mentioned adding the legitimate needs list to the Podcast Freebies. You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, and online courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list! Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

Welcome to episode #101 of RL Radio!   I don't know about you, but it is SO cool being in the hundreds, and we are so glad to have you all here with us!   In this episode, we discuss why women ask for details in recovery.  Women often get a bad rap for asking for more information; even well-meaning supporters and counselors try to convince her that she doesn't need to know everything, thinking this is helpful.   We discuss at the beginning of the episode how wives are already voiceless in this process, so anywhere in recovery that we can give her her voice back is HUGE. How much information a wife does or doesn't want should ALWAYS be her choice.   Here are just some of the reasons that wives ask for details:   1 - To piece together her timeline. 2 - Helping herself not feel crazy / making sense of her story. 3 - Trying to reconcile/recalibrate her gut. 4 - To figure out and assess:  how much did I mean to you? 5 - Knowing if there was anything sacred in the relationship. 6 - To understand the level of danger - Asking: Am I safe intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, and physically? 7 - To reconcile her concept of her husband. 8 - To take the edge off the pain (by gathering information). 9 - Knowing all of the details can give a sense of control and safety. 10 - To understand what she is forgiving. 11 - In the thick of the trauma, getting carried away and asking things that maybe she doesn't even want answers to. 12 - Fact Checking. 13 - Gaging willingness and brokenness in him. 14 - To pursue intimacy with him - I want to know YOU, is what she is essentially saying. 15 - Trying to figure out which locations, experiences, and people are tainted (or not).   We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8. Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups in the New Year!  We have several starting, and you can snag all the details here. The Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX, is right around the corner in January 2026. Click here for all the details. We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.  Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, and online courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

Welcome to episode #100 of RL Radio and part 2 of the Building Blocks of Intimacy! We are so excited to reach this milestone with you guys. If you liked seeing the video version of our podcast last week, you can watch this week's video in the Worthy of Her Trust Academy Public Content section (see link below) or on our YouTube Channel. Okay, so we are in part two of our deep dive into the building blocks of intimacy, and we start right off the bat discussing this idea of compatibility.  Jason voices a couple of insights: Popular culture focuses a lot on compatibility in the sense of how two people's differences will jive, but Jason points out how we, as humans, are actually designed for compatibility, so the opposition between a spender and a saver is not an issue of compatibility as much as personal preference, and its actually our wounds that outsize the boxes of intimacy that give the illusion of incompatibility. When we age into our 70s & 80s, the first thing to go is most likely sexual intimacy, and if we don't know now how to connect holistically and authentically, then when sexual intimacy fades out, what will we have? Hopefully, we've spent our time developing true intimacy so we can stay connected as we age together. Then we move into the different approaches we need to look out for when using the building blocks framework: 1 - 'Top Down' Approach - Sex is the way to connect. Top Down is the idea that we use sex to fill in all of the building blocks in a sort of "quick fix" way, rather than creating connections that would lead to HEALTHY sexuality. This taints all of the other boxes, making every dynamic of intimacy sexually charged. 2 - 'Bottom Up with Strings Attached' Approach - Using the building blocks of intimacy to guarantee sexual connection. This can feel connecting, but underneath what looks and feels connecting is really just straight-up fake. That said, it's not always nefarious, but it IS misguided. 3 - 'No Building Blocks' Approach: Minimal to no intimate connection with ANY of the building blocks.  This is where severe intimacy aversion happens. 4 - 'Disintegrated' Approach:  A moment of connection within one of the building blocks, but as soon as the experience is over, intimacy disappears. For example, going on a bike ride and connecting (recreational intimacy). Once the ride is over and the bikes are stored away, all connection is gone.  5 - 'Bottom-Up with No Strings Attached' Approach: Experiencing intimacy for the sake of intimacy, not to get us anywhere else.  I loved when Jason shared:  When we engage in the other intimacies, it's satisfying.  And we don't need sex.  We want sex, but we don't need it. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8. Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups in the New Year!  We have several starting, and you can snag all the details here. The Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX, is right around the corner in January 2026. Click here for all the details. We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.  Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, and online courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast  

Welcome to Season #8 of RL Radio! We are excited to connect with you guys, laugh a little, and also partner with you as you move forward with healing. This season, we decided to start recording podcasts as videos (in addition to the podcast). In that vein, we wanted to record in our sitting nook off our kitchen - and did for a handful of episodes for this season, including this two-part series. As I listen to this recording, I can hear that we have some tweaking to do, so you will probably hear those tweaks as we go through the season, and hopefully, we will land in a happy-sounding place. In this episode, we wanted to fully dive into The Building Blocks of Intimacy. We have mentioned the building blocks in episode #41, but surprisingly, we haven't done a full episode (or two) walking fully through the building blocks of intimacy. So here we go! We start with a couple of disclaimers: 1 - The building blocks are a framework, not a roadmap. 2 - The point is NOT to get to the top of the pyramid. 3 - Sex addicts don't know how to experience intimacy that is integrated or holistic. And then set up the building blocks. Please refer to the podcast freebie (and if you have subscribed to the podcast freebies in the past, you will need to email us so we can resend the email to you) so that you can see the visual of the building blocks of intimacy OR you can look on page 118 in the Rescued workbook. A couple of important notes (as we discuss the layers within layers): 1 - We have the buildings of intimacy that essentially look like a wedding cake with layers, and then we also have layers within each of the boxes (consisting of intimacy with self, intimacy with God, intimacy with others, intimacy with spouse). 2 - I really appreciate what Jason shared when he compared the building blocks of intimacy to porn. The building blocks of intimacy are sacred, deep, rich, and complex. Porn - not so much. While this is tragic, it can also be very reassuring that we can NOT be compared to porn. 3 - Jason also said: "We long for the safety of true intimacy and we find the fraudulent form of safety in secrecy." We = the sex addict. 4 - Our wounding causes certain blocks to be disproportionately in demand. As in, certain blocks are super-sized based on his core wounds. In the next episode, we are going to pick up where we left off and walk through certain "approaches" that we need to look out for as we use the building blocks framework, which will help all of you have the language for what might be missing and what is working. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8. Jason mentioned the Worthy of Her Trust Workshop which will be outside New Braunfels, TX (between San Antonio and Austin) in January, 2026. Click here for all the details. We WILL be uploading the video portion of the podcast to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.  Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

The 90/10 principle simply means that 90% of the work of relational rebuilding is a husband's responsibility post betrayal (+ 100% of a husband's personal work). That 90% means going first, leading the process, holding the weight of the brokenness in the relationship, engaging, initiating, following through, amending, living forgivable and working on being trustworthy.    The 10% that is a wife's work in the beginning is simply showing up and being a willing participant in the process, grieving, watching, waiting, navigating boundaries and needs, and finding a sense of security. That she has 10% isn't suggesting that she's got it easy; quite the opposite, her 10% is really hard.    Where things get wonky (especially in the early work) is when we move beyond focusing on a hubands personal work and relational rebuilding work, and shine the spotlight on a wife's personal work. Shelley acknowledges that we all have work to do to grow and change, but the focus should not be on a wife's personal work in the post-betrayal dynamic. Ideally that happens later, after a husband has paved the way.    Myth: There's infidelity in that relationship, so that relationship must be broken.  Truth: There's infidelity in that relationship, so there must be a broken person in that relationship. A broken relationship has ZERO bearing on infidelity.   Bottom line for Jason: God's not calling me to call you to your work. Masterclasses for men for June include Foundations of Freedom and Handling Her Triggers. Follow the links to sign up! We will be planning the next RLW Retreat soon.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know the dates and location for the next one (hopefully for this Fall!). We are hoping to do the next Empowered Boundary class for women this summer. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

As I listen to the first part of this episode, I am so thankful we aren't where we were five months ago with our little puppy.  I will say - we are still considering getting rid of him because while he is much easier for us than he was five months ago, he is still a LOT.  I was giggling with how I was pronouncing words like diarrhea and nope.  Don't mind me!   In this episode, we wanted to talk about this concept that his recovery, and more specifically his processing is personal but not private.  Jason talks about some men are told that certain things shouldn't be shared - whether it's what he is processing in between sessions, what he shared in groups, with his therapist, etc.   Since the acting out was in private, if we also do our recoveries in private - then we are perpetuating one of the issues that got him here in the first place:  living life in a container.   Here are some suggestions for men that are doing some decent recovery work:   - Let her have a choice as to if she wants to hear what he is processing. - She can't be the container he always dumps into - there is a balance between dumping and working toward vulnerable intimacy.  It's something we learn as we go and Jason speaks to this in the episode. - Awareness of "for" versus "at" when it comes to her emotions after he shares - if he is mad at her, it might show his deeper motivation was not from a place of being fully known (versus from a place of well, she told me she wanted to know what I was processing…). - Awareness of data versus experience when it comes to what he shares - we are looking for intimacy and vulnerability and his experience of himself in what he shares, not just the logistics of the day. - Awareness that when he comes to her to share - it's a LOT for her - take it from me.  So tenderness is critical.   For those men that insist on needing privacy - Jason, being who Jason is and seeing the gray says - "okay, great, if you need this for a season".  I then say:  I think it needs to be less than a season.  More like here and there but always with the goal of coming back to being fully known and without containment.     Bottom line:  His demand for privacy is a barrier to the relational recovery.  The end.   We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Masterclasses for men for June include Foundations of Freedom and Handling Her Triggers. Follow the links to sign up! We will be planning the next RLW Retreat soon.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know the dates and location for the next one (hopefully for this Fall!). The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. We are hoping to do the next Empowered Boundary class for women this summer. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

We are back with part 2 of the lying episode. We jump in to talking about what helped Jason stop lying: #1 - Brute force effort to be honest as well as brute force effort to fight the addictive voice inside of him. (Jason said he would argue internally with the man he was fighting to become versus the old, addictive self pulling him back.) #2 - He came to a place of determination that he could handle the fall out. Out of this shift came one of Jason's core recovery mantra's: I'd rather lose you than lie to you. I chime in (and possibly take the convo in a different direction) and I talk about how when we lie - we are chipping away at our sense of selves. We become fragmented and disintegrated. Radical honesty is one of the ways we move toward integration and wholeness. Jason's suggestions for men that are in the thick of recovery and need to stop lying: Document what the voices in your head tell you (about why you shouldn't tell the truth) so that you know what you will be brute force fight against. Being accountable with others for telling the truth. Honesty amends work which will help him come to terms with the gravity of how he has lived. Identity work. We then talk about what she should expect - and I start by saying: we should expect him to NOT lie. You will hear me grappling with: should I have been a bit more gracious in the beginning? (Because I truly thought: what in the world is WRONG with him and please just STOP.) Expect him to not lie. Expect speedy self-regulation on his part and try to see the progress in him (if there indeed is progress). Expect that there is a journey that he will have to go through in order to see ALL the ways he has lied. We land the plane talking about polygraphs - which probably (really) needs to be a whole episode in and of itself. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The Spring RLW Retreat is SOLD OUT for May.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next RLW Women's Retreat. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

We are starting to come to the final bend in the road for Season #7, before we take a break. In this episode - we talk about lying - something that comes up a lot with the gals I connect with on Instagram as well as one of the things that was posted more than once in the question box on IG when I asked for podcast suggestions.   What I always say is: women are willing to do the excruciating work of healing from betrayal - but the lying is what becomes an impasse.   Here is what we are going to walk through:   1 - What lying looked like for Jason growing up. 2 - Why we lie. 3 - What should she expect. 4 - Suggestions for men.   As Jason spoke about what lying looked like growing up - he made a fascinating statement: "I valued honesty but deceived myself when dishonesty served me." Essentially - he was lying to himself which is such a big problem that liars deal with. He also said - "The more deeply entrenched he was in his lying, the more he had to justify it in real life."   Listening back to this episode gave me a deep feeling of unease with how sinister lying really is and how it corrupts us.   So why do we lie? Bottom line: it's self-protective in an unhealthy way and its intimacy aversion at its finest. Jason also mentions that some of the why behind his lying was to protect me. I didn't say this in the episode but as I listen to the replay - I don't love what Jason is saying here - I realize he said: this isn't a "feather in the cap" sort of thing - which I appreciate - but goodness, I just can't get behind him lying to protect me…   We will be back next week with part 2 of lying.   We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7.   The Spring RLW Retreat is SOLD OUT for May.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next RLW Women's Retreat. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April.  Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. Join the Wait List to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here.   For more information on RL Academy, click here. Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus. We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop! Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + announcements. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list. Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast.