371: How Navigating Multiple Bosses Shapes Employee Performance with Damian Zivic and Cristiano Guarana

Here's a dynamic that so many of us in the corporate world know all too well: managing relationships with multiple bosses. I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with two brilliant colleagues from Indiana University's Kelley School of Business, Damian Zivic and Christiano Guarana. We've all been in that position, pulled in different directions by different managers, and Damian and Christiano's latest study breaks down what happens to an employee's mindset and performance when one of those leaders turns out to be less than ideal. Key Takeaways from the Research Prevalence of Multi-Team Membership: Most of the modern workforce navigates overlapping team structures . It is estimated that up to 95% of workers worldwide report being part of more than one team . The Mechanics of Reactive Compensatory Theory: When employees experience toxic or abusive behavior from one manager, they often seek satisfaction by over-performing for another . As Damian explained, "When an individual experiences a dissatisfying experience or event in one domain of life, they try to look for more satisfactory experiences in that other domain ." Contrasting Leadership Perception: Employees actively contrast their managers' behaviors . As Christiano noted, "If we got a negative behavior from one leader. The other leader in relation to this abusive leader starts looking very good. So I like that leader more, and I will put my effort on that leader's project ." A Hidden Red Flag for Organizations: Uneven employee performance across different teams can be an indicator of underlying leadership issues rather than individual incompetence . Christiano pointed out, "If you have an employee performing super well on one team but not on the other, maybe that's at least a yellow flag. Do some more due diligence and try to understand what's happening in that triad ." Actionable Takeaway for Leaders Open cross-project lines of communication with other leaders and check in regularly with your team members about their experiences across all their assigned teams, using performance disparities across projects as a prompt for inquiry rather than immediate criticism .

When I sat down with Jennifer Weiss-Wolf, executive director of NYU's Birnbaum Women's Leadership Center and author of WIN IN MENOPAUSE, I knew we were going to dive into waters that corporate America usually pretends don't exist . Yet...if one in five workers is navigating the menopause transition, why on earth are we still treating it like a national secret ?  Jennifer's journey into health advocacy started not in a high-powered boardroom, but with a local community drive collecting period products . That spark of curiosity, asking why basic care isn't fundamentally integrated into our societal systems, unlocked a career of reframing taboo issues into policy solutions . Between laughing over our shared "why am I in this room again?" brain fog moments and unpacking systemic medical neglect, Jennifer brought a hilarious, yet urgent clarity to the table .  Navigating midlife shouldn't feel like an obstacle course, and it's time we build workplace and policy ecosystems that actually support us through it . Key Themes The Systemic Breakdown of Medical Knowledge and Care: A profound gap exists in medical education regarding menopausal health, leaving a vast majority of doctors unprepared to treat symptoms effectively . "If one in five [residency programs] do offer menopause education, four in five don't. It's an entire system-wide meltdown." The Lingering Shadow of Debunked Science: Misleading public announcements from decades past created widespread fear around treatments like hormone therapy, causing long-lasting damage that choked off research and clinical training . "That was like an announcement that just couldn't be undone, even though it is false. Those bells couldn't be un-rung, and people became immediately terrified of hormone replacement therapy." Intersectional Impacts and Taboos in the Workplace: Menopause intersected with ageism, sexism, and racism creates distinct workplace challenges, particularly for women of color who often experience earlier and more severe symptoms . "We're talking about everything that might create challenges for productive pathways forward potentially being held against us." Why National Systemic Reform Trumps One-Size-Fits-All Workplace Accommodations: Effective support requires overarching policy changes, such as funded research, updated medical board licensing, and comprehensive insurance coverage, rather than superficial or awkward office perks . "Let's invest in the systemic changes and make our lives better overall, so we come to work feeling as great as we should. Everyone wins." Actionable Takeaway Advocate for comprehensive health benefits by auditing your organization's insurance plans to ensure FDA-approved menopause treatments, preventive scans, and knowledgeable care are fully covered .

Did you know that 20% of potential employees identify as neurodiverse, and the unemployment rate for the neurodiverse community is 30% to 85%? That is why I spoke with Sean Passmore, Head of Enterprise Military and Veteran Initiatives, Neurodiversity, and Disability Employment Strategy, and Alex Lieberman, a Wells Fargo employee who identifies as Neurodiverse and was hired through the program six years ago.   As a parent navigating the world alongside my own autistic child, conversations like this one hit remarkably close to home . It's easy to talk about inclusion in abstract terms, but true allyship happens in the quiet, day-to-day moments like a manager noticing a turned off camera and asking with genuine curiosity rather than judgment . Key Themes Focusing on Outcomes Over Presence. Traditional hiring and workplace norms often reward social performance and desk presence over actual output . When organizations shift their focus to clear deliverables and accommodate unique working patterns, employees can excel without burning out . "It's often the simple things, like trusting people to do their work and measuring work by outcomes, not by your ability to sit at a desk for a long period of time."  Psychological Safety Driven by Direct Managers. The day-to-day experience of an employee is largely shaped by their direct manager . Approaching differences with open curiosity rather than rigid assumptions creates a safe space for clear communication and trust . "I asked him 'Help me understand why you're not on camera.' It was really, I think, just about creating some psychological safety for Alex." — Sean Passmore Setting Best Practices That Benefit Everyone. Implementing structured workplace practices such as clear written instructions, documented meeting takeaways, and explicit expectations removes ambiguity for neurodivergent employees while raising overall clarity across the entire team . "There are certain best practices for the workplace. That includes writing down taking notes on meetings and writing down conclusions. It also clears up a lot for neurotypical employees who are often struggling with just the same sort of thing." — Alex Lieberman Sustaining Inclusion Through Structured Support Systems. Long-term retention requires intentional infrastructure . Support systems like peer buddy programs and trained voluntary coaches provide safe channels for navigating workplace dynamics and ensuring employees feel supported beyond onboarding . "We have a buddy program. You can think of it as a best friend at work in your first 60 to 90 days... someone safe that you can talk to, an ally who's familiar with the neurodiversity community." — Sean Passmore Challenging Gut Instincts to Uncover Talent. Relying on gut feelings during hiring or management often reinforces implicit biases and existing comfort zones . True inclusion requires stepping back, questioning initial instincts, and evaluating talent with an open, deliberate mindset . "Don't go with your gut, or at least don't always go with your gut. Because your gut is your subconscious experiences. If you're dealing with something that you're not used to, your gut will not be helpful." — Alex Lieberman Actionable Takeaway Establish a practice of documenting and sharing explicit expectations for tasks and meeting outcomes. Write down key decisions, define timelines clearly, and communicate deliverables in writing to eliminate unnecessary guesswork for your whole team .  

If the last couple of years have taught us anything in the DEI space, it's that living in constant hyper-vigilance will burn you out . Between economic shifts, societal pushback, and the sheer mental load of caring for everyone else, so many of us are operating in complete fight or flight mode. In this episode of Allyship in Action, I sat down with the incredible Regena Thomashauer—aka Mama Gena—to talk about how we can shift out of defense mode and back into our own innate power . I'll be honest, when Regena pulled up music for an impromptu 15-second dance break right in the middle of our interview, my initial instinct was to laugh off my bad "Elaine from Seinfeld" moves. But feeling my heart rate settle and my nervous system calm down in real time reminded me of an essential truth: as women and leaders, we cannot pour from an empty cup or lead effectively when we're disconnected from our own joy. Key Conversation Themes Pleasure as a Biological and Healing Modality Connecting to body-based pleasure triggers vital neurotransmitters like oxytocin, dopamine, and endorphins that calm the nervous system and lower cortisol. "If we are not actively connecting to our erotic aliveness, we are leaving one of the most profound healing modalities on the table." Rebalancing Divine Masculine and Feminine Energies True systemic progress requires honoring both masculine and feminine perspectives equally rather than forcing women to conform to male-centered organizational or cultural norms. "Masculine and feminine are equally divine, equally sacred, and equally holy. The feminine excluded from leadership positions, from spiritual culture, it's damaging to both men and women." Surrendering to Your Aliveness in Crisis Surrender is not about submitting to external circumstances. It is an act of reclaiming internal power and grounding yourself when facing financial or personal hardships. "In hard times, how do you, instead of turn on yourself, turn on to your erotic aliveness. That is the biggest difference, because if you cannot connect, you surrender to that erotic aliveness that lives inside every woman." Overcoming the Conditioning Against Self-Celebration Women are socialized to stay humble and small, but normalizing bragging builds connection, restores joy, and changes team dynamics in workplace environments. "Women, by nurture don't like bragging. We've been socialized to be humble. When you brag, you're creating a pleasurable experience and turning on all those neurotransmitters." Actionable Takeaway Start your next team meeting or individual work routine with a brief, intentional shift into positive energy—whether that is a 15-second physical dance break to reset your nervous system or sharing a single brag to celebrate a personal or professional win.

If you have ever caught yourself second-guessing how you navigate a delicate conversation around race at work, trust me, you are not alone. This week, I had the absolute joy of sitting down with the brilliant Dr. Evelyn Carter, social psychologist and author of Was That Racist? We geeked out over the fascinating science of human behavior, laughed about our shared moments of awkwardness, and got real about why true inclusion requires us to drop the polished corporate scripts. Dr. Carter brings a refreshing blend of research-backed clarity and vivid personal storytelling that makes you feel both deeply challenged and surprisingly hopeful. We talked about how bias sneaks into our everyday micro-behaviors, why the traditional business case for diversity falls flat, and how we can empower the next generation to stand firm in their values.  Unconscious Bias Leaks Into Physical and Social Spaces. Even when we do not consciously endorse biased beliefs, implicit social cognition leaks into our non-verbal behavior, influencing how we interact with others and navigate shared spaces. "Those feelings of disgust, those feelings of wariness come through in the way that we decide what we want to physically keep close to us or not. We often opt for comfort over discomfort."  Grounding DEI in Moral Conviction Over the Business Case. Relying solely on financial performance or corporate metrics to justify equity cheapens human dignity; true inclusion stems from a deep moral mandate to right historical wrongs. "I am not doing diversity, equity, and inclusion work because it is going to make a company more money. I am doing this work because I fundamentally believe the way that we collectively behaved as a society in our past was wrong, was immoral, and led to horrific outcomes..."  Standardizing Hiring and Promotion Systems to Block Bias. Organizations must create structured processes backed by objective criteria, rather than relying on subjective gut feelings or affinity bias that naturally favor dominant groups. "If we cannot structure a process around it, then what you have actually been calling 'I know it when I see it' is really just bias."  Nurturing the Next Generation's Natural Pursuit of Justice. Young people are keen observers of systemic injustice, and adults must lean into those candid discussions rather than stifling uncomfortable truths. "Don't just put your kid in front of that movie, have a conversation about the historical fiction that it depicted and the real-life story behind it. Use the media that they are watching and make it relevant for them."  Actionable Takeaway. Replace vague culture fit metrics in your team's hiring and promotion decisions with concrete, objective criteria to eliminate implicit affinity bias and ensure equitable evaluation for every candidate. Follow Dr. Evelyn Carter's work here https://www.evelynrcarter.com/.

By the time the fourth quarter rolls around, most of us in leadership are running on coffee, sheer willpower, and a quiet prayer that our calendars don't spontaneously combust. We rush to cross off every single goal set in January, regardless of whether our teams actually have the bandwidth left to carry it. In my latest chat with the incredible Dr. Jolander Headley, we unpacked why this year-end frenzy is a recipe for disaster and how we can lead with a lot more intention and a lot less chaotic exhaustion. We laughed about our own high-octane DISC profiles, because it turns out two driven, influential leaders in one room can produce some serious sparks, but the core message was clear: if you want to retain your best talent and build a workplace that actually lasts, you have to lead yourself first. That means taking a deep breath, dropping the perfectionism, and asking ourselves what truly matters before we ask our people to do one more thing. Key Themes Prioritization Starts with Self-Awareness: True alignment begins when leaders drop the denial and look inward to understand how their own behavior and blind spots impact the rest of the team. "You cannot improve what you refuse to acknowledge... If you can't lead yourself well, it's challenging to lead others well. So you want to lead yourself well. Start with self-awareness." Retention Decisions Are Made in Q4: The end of the year creates heightened anxiety and prompts employees to evaluate their career trajectories, making it critical for managers to reassess workloads rather than pushing teams to the breaking point. "As quarter four approaches, retention risks can increase. This is a time that leaders push their teams to accomplish every remaining annual goal that had been established, regardless of capacity, forcing burnout." Shift to Sustainable Performance Over Burnout Culture: Building an enduring organization requires sustainable leaders who create proactive burnout prevention models and focus on intrinsic motivators like autonomy and personal growth. "Employees will increasingly expect their organization to demonstrate that high performance can be maintained without chaotic exhaustion. We cannot build sustainable organizations without developing sustainable leaders." Prioritization Activities to Do with Your Team: Managers need to create space for intentional recalibration, such as evaluating team bandwidth, throwing "stay celebrations" to recognize current value, and carrying non-critical tasks into the next year. "The idea of a stay party is that you're giving the flowers while they're still there. Eelebrating the progress of the organization without being complacent." Actionable Takeaway for Listeners: Set aside 60 minutes this week for a Q4 Priority & Capacity Audit with your team: review every remaining annual goal together, identify who is quietly becoming the go-to person for everything, and explicitly choose at least one low-impact project to pause or carry over into the new year. Follow Dr. Jolander Headley at https://jolanderheadley.com/

Every now and then, a book comes along that completely stops me in my tracks. My conversation with Dr. Corinne Low—Wharton professor, economist, and author of Having It All—was one of those instances where data validated everything so many of us feel daily. I loved blending storytelling with hard research as we unpacked why so many high-achieving working parents feel so exhausted. As a working mom myself, hearing the data prove that working mothers today spend more time with their children than stay-at-home mothers did a generation ago was a massive aha moment. We realized the progress made for women in the workplace hasn't been matched by a revolution for men at home, leaving us playing with half a deck of cards. Together, we explored how shifting our workplace norms, setting clear boundaries, and reimagining partnership roles can build a system that actually works for everyone. Key Themes Why the Workplace Is Not Working for All Genders. The traditional workplace model was built around an outdated era where employees relied on a stay-at-home partner to manage home life. While women have made huge strides entering the corporate world, men haven't experienced a parallel revolution at home, leaving working women disproportionately burdened by domestic labor. "We had a gender revolution for women, and we did not have a gender revolution for men. We are showing up as equals in the workforce, but men are not showing up as equals at home."  Ditch Flexibility for Boundaries. Flexibility often serves as a buzzword that leads to continuous work bleeding into personal life and eventual burnout. What employees, especially working mothers and Gen Z, actually need is predictability and hard boundaries that allow them to be full human beings outside of their jobs. "Many women in those more structured professions say, 'No, I don't want flexibility, I want boundaries, because what flexibility often means is that you always take your work home with you and you end up very burned out.'"  What Organizations Can Do to Engage All Genders at Work. Employers must move past the misconception that inclusion conflicts with meritocracy. By actively dismantling biases and offering structured, predictable workflows that account for real-world caregiving duties, companies attract stronger talent, boost retention, and create a true meritocracy. "If you combat bias and some of these structural problems that keep women out of your firm, you could be moving closer to meritocracy, which means actually a competitive edge." Actionable Takeaway Evaluate your relationship with your career by running the unconstrained resources exercise: imagine a life with unlimited wealth and design your ideal week. Recognize that your job is a technology designed to convert time into money, and intentionally set boundaries so that work does not consume the time meant for the rest of your life. Follow Corrine at https://www.corinnelow.com/

Scott Curran is a social impact lawyer, advisor, and educator who spent ten years in the All-Star game of global philanthropy at the Clinton Foundation . When I sit back and look at the wacky headlines and persistent headwinds in our world right now, it can be really easy to throw up our hands . But Scott brings us right back to the science: human beings are naturally wired for good, and our brain chemistry practically throws a party of dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and endorphins whenever we do something kind or even just watch someone else do it ! Scott candidly shares how a middle-of-the-night couch conversation with his wife turned into a mission to give away a decade's worth of hard-earned tools to help leaders scale their impact . Purpose isn't just a fluffy concept. Purpose drives profits, sparks employee joy, and connects us to our shared humanity . Key Themes & Highlights Humans Are Science-Backed and Wired for Good. Human beings are fundamentally built for reciprocity and community care . Despite negative news cycles, basic brain chemistry releases feel-good neurochemicals whenever we give, receive, or observe acts of kindness . "No headline, no headwind, no culture warrior accusation can change the human reality that we are wired for good, and that it feels good when we do it, and even when we just see it."  Starting a Purposeful Entity Requires Borrowing Success. Launching a nonprofit doesn't require reinventing the wheel because all organizations follow a predetermined regulatory lifecycle . Before starting a new entity, change-makers should first consider plugging their energy into an existing organization . "There's approximately just under 2 million nonprofits in the United States running the gamut of all non-profit work. And the great news is they're all special, but not that unique." The BOPP Framework Drives Organizational Success. Sustainable, purposeful organizations rely on a balance of four core elements: a diverse, independent Board; lean Operations; clear Programs; and impactful Partnerships . "If you want the quick approach to a great organization, I'm gonna give you four things to focus on. It's BOPP." Everyday Corporate Good Builds Community Connection. Organizations don't need to overcomplicate social impact; simple initiatives like corporate service days or employee donation match programs create immense shared value . "Start where you are, focus on the causes that hit most close to home... Being aware and being intentional are the only two things I hope people take away."  Actionable Takeaway Ask your employer if they offer an employee donation matching program to double your impact for free—and if they don't have one yet, invite your leadership team to start one ! Follow Scott at https://www.scottmcurran.com/

Positive psychology researcher and author Michelle Gielan joins us to dive into two qualities I think about a lot: optimism and resilience. Early in my career, I used to think being optimistic meant slapping a smile on my face, grabbing a venti iced coffee, and pretending everything was fine, even when a project was burning down around me. (Spoiler alert: it doesn't work!) Real optimism isn't about ignoring the mess. As Michelle reminded me, it's about taking a realistic assessment of the present while holding onto the belief that our actions matter. We laughed about closet optimists, shared a few messy real-world stories, and unpacked how these mindsets work hand-in-hand to transform our workplaces. Here are the key themes from our conversation: Optimism vs. Resilience: Traditional optimism is the general expectation of good outcomes, whereas resilient optimism is grounded in deliberate behaviors that keep us hopeful when our plans face real-world testing. "Optimism is basically an expectation of good things to happen and resilient optimism is optimism that stays strong when it's tested." Why Optimism and Resilience Matter at Work: Cultivating a resilient, optimistic mindset directly boosts performance, keeps teams engaged, and significantly lowers the risk of burnout across organizations. "People who are in that top quartile are three times more likely to be highly engaged at their jobs and five times less likely to burn out." How to Instill Optimism at Work: Rather than fighting ingrained pessimism head-on, leaders can shift workplace culture by encouraging closet optimists to speak up and framing challenges around actionable solutions. "If we can even get them to speak up ever so slightly, now we're shifting the culture. We want to talk about the challenges we've been able to overcome and why that has worked." Actionable Takeaway Start your next meeting with a quick possibility prompt rather than a list of problems. Ask your team to share one thing that went well this week or one solution-oriented step they can take on a current challenge to help prime their brains for constructive action. Follow Michelle at https://michellegielan.com/resilient-optimism/

Finding balance in leadership and in life often feels like trying to do a high-wire act while juggling toddlers and a full-time career. That is why I was thrilled to catch up with Jess Ekstrom, founder of Mic Drop Workshop and author of Making It Without Losing It. Jess is a powerful storyteller who has built two million dollar businesses. She brings this incredible blend of real-world hustle and laugh-out-loud relatable humor. We got into what happens when we stop chasing everyone else's definition of success and start listening to what actually fuels us. Between tales of toddlers running yoga classes with a three-year-old and life on the road in an RV, Jess dropped some serious wisdom on how we can show up as better leaders, speakers, and advocates without burning ourselves out. Key Themes Lighthouse vs. Spotlight Speaking. True impact happens when you shift your focus away from self-perception and toward serving the audience. "Spotlight speakers go up on stage and they're concerned with perception, but a lighthouse speaker shifts the light from themselves to their audience or their listener. They're not concerned with perception, they're concerned with guidance." Driven by Intrinsic Motivation. Relying on external validation creates a fragile foundation for success, whereas focusing on internal purpose breeds resilience. "If we're always looking for external validation. We can't control that, versus intrinsically, we can only control what's happening inside of us and what motivates us." Managing Life's Four Cups. Time and energy are finite, so managing priorities requires recognizing that not every area of life can be completely full at once. "You have four cups: it's your relationships, your work, your health, your creativity. And then you have one jug of water every day. Every cup is not going to be at its brim. Some are going to have to suffer. And it's also temporary, and it's seasonal and shifts throughout life." Testing New Life Iterations. Growth doesn't require dismantling your entire life all at once. Growth can start with giving yourself permission to try new things in small doses. "Try something on. If there is a way that you can try on a new life, a new hobby, a new idea without blowing up your life in flames that can be very doable." Actionable Takeaway Test an ambition for 10 minutes a day. Instead of feeling pressured to make a dramatic, high-risk leap, give yourself a two-week trial period where you dedicate just 10 minutes daily to exploring that new goal or identity without any permanent commitments. Follow Jess at https://jessekstrom.com/