268. John McClain on Design Business Systems, Pricing & Leading a Profitable Firm

So you built your fee. You did the work. You went through every phase. You estimated your hours. You accounted for your role. And you landed on a number that actually reflects what this project will require. And then you presented it. And then the client either said, "That's more than we expected," or "Let us think about it and get back to you." And then they went quiet. If this has happened to you in the past or recently, let me please be the first to tell you: you are not alone. And I want to tell you something important before we go any further: The fee is probably not the problem. I'm actually betting on it. What happened before the fee is the problem. And that's what we're going to talk about today.   Mentioned in this episode: Join the wait list for The Designers Edge and my May 5th workshop here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/construction-management-interior-designers  Grab Your Free Script Guide here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/push-back-script-handout  Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/interior-design-fee-rejection 

Have you ever been standing on a job site, or sitting on a call, or answering a text at 9 p.m., and realized mid-sentence that you are clearly running this project? Not consulting on it. Not advising from the edges. But running it. Coordinating it. Holding it together. And nobody ever asked you to take on that role. And you definitely didn't price your fee accordingly. If that moment sounds familiar, you are absolutely in the right place today. Because we're going to talk about the four moments that signal you've crossed from consultant to manager — without a conversation, without an agreement, and almost always without a fee that reflects it.   Mentioned in this episode: Join the wait list for The Designers Edge and my May 5th workshop here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/construction-management-interior-designers  Grab Your Free Script Guide here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/push-back-script-handout  Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/interior-designer-consultant-to-construction-manager 

Today is March 31st, the last day of the first quarter. And I want to do something a little different. I want to walk you through a quick audit. Maybe five minutes. Back of the napkin. No fancy spreadsheet. You can use a Post-it if you want. This will tell you more about your business than your QuickBooks has all year. Because we're going to look at the gap between what you earned this quarter and what you were actually worth. And then we're going to talk about what that gap is really costing you — because it's not just money. If you've ever finished a quarter feeling like you worked constantly, but the revenue doesn't match up with your effort, this episode is for you. This is no judgment. Just clarity. Mentioned in this episode: Join the waitlist for The Designer's Edge here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/construction-management-interior-designers Grab Your Free Script Guide here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/push-back-script-handout  Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/interior-designer-undercharging-cost

Today's episode feels like you're sitting in on a conversation you want to be a part of. Today, I'm joined by Rebecca Plum and Shaun Crha, the voices behind the Hot Young Designers Club, a global community of designers who are redefining what it means to show up in this industry. They're the founders of Studio Plum and Rinsted Interiors, and together, they've built a platform rooted in friendship, honesty, and the belief that being a hottie is really just a state of mind. Through their podcast, Patreon, and industry events, they're creating space for interior designers to talk about the real stuff, the emotional, the practical, and yes, the humorous side of this business. And today, we're going to go there in this conversation. Today, we talked about community and isolation. We talked about money, construction chaos, and client dynamics. We talked about scope of work clarity and the emotional weight of this business. Let's get into it.   Find out more about Rebecca and Shaun Website: https://hotyoungdesignersclub.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotyoungdesignersclub   Mentioned in this episode: Grab Your Free Script Guide here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/push-back-script-handout Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/interior-design-industry-conversations   

I billed hourly for my entire career. It felt honest, transparent, fair. But one morning, I had a realization that changed everything: the better I got at my work, the less I was making. My earlier clients paid me to build relationships, vet contractors, develop expertise. Now my current clients were benefiting from all of that, for 15 minutes on an invoice. That was the day I decided to stop charging hourly. Today, I'm walking you through why hourly starts working against you as you grow, the 6-input framework I use to build flat fees (no formulas), how to present your fee with confidence, and what to say when clients push back. Mentioned in this episode: Grab Your Free Script Guide here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/push-back-script-handout  Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/flat-fee-vs-hourly-interior-design 

There are projects that stretch you creatively. There are projects that grow your business. And then there are projects that quietly cost you more than you realize while you're in them. This is about one of those. For nearly ten years, I worked with a client who, if I'm being honest, I knew was difficult from the very beginning. Not unreasonable in a glaring way. Not someone who screamed or threw things. She was particular. High maintenance. Intense. And in the early years, I convinced myself that I could manage it. We started with decorating. We would work intensely for months, and then I wouldn't hear from her for almost a year. Throughout that time, she would tell me they were looking for their "dream home." The one we would fully renovate together. The big project. Looking back, that may have been the carrot that kept me moving through the more frenetic moments. I believed that if I stayed steady, if I stayed patient, it would all culminate into something extraordinary. Eventually, they found the house. It was beautiful and complicated and ver y old. It needed modernization and a large addition. It was exactly the kind of project designers dream about. And I told myself what so many of us tell ourselves: I know her. I understand her quirks. I can handle this. It was not fine. So today, I want to talk about the red flags I saw — and ignored — along the way. And also the pink flags that showed up. My hope is that you'll recognize them sooner than I did and avoid this kind of client in your own business. Mentioned in this episode: Grab Your Free Script Guide here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/push-back-script-handout  Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/client-red-flags-in-interior-design 

Today, we're talking about something that happens on every renovation project I manage: Contractor bids that don't match. Same project. Same drawings. Same walkthrough. And yet — the numbers come back wildly different. Sometimes it's ten thousand dollars. Sometimes it's fifty thousand. And if you've ever stood in front of a client trying to explain why one contractor is double the other… yeah. You know the feeling. So today, I'm walking you through why contractor bids vary (even when you've done everything "right"), how to run a contractor walkthrough that actually reduces variance, the step-by-step process to compare bids line-by-line, and how to ask tough questions without sounding confrontational. Because yes, you can push back professionally. Mentioned in this episode: Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/how-to-compare-contractor-bids 

Today, I am joined by my friend, John McClain. He and I met at High Point last October and immediately connected.  John McClain is a multi-faceted leader in the interior design industry and proudly serves in his field as an interior designer, product designer, author, speaker, business coach, and podcast host. As the CEO and Creative Director of his internationally acclaimed award-winning interior design firm, John McClain Design, his interior design and home furnishings creations have been featured by numerous shelter publications and television networks including Elle Décor, Traditional Home, HGTV, CBS, and NBC. John is also a contributor to outlets such as Martha Stewart Living, Interior Design magazine, The Wall Street Journal, & House Beautiful. As a product designer, John has created distinctive home furnishings that have not only garnered awards but have made numerous television appearances in their own right. John's coffee table book, The Designer Within: A Professional Guide to A Well-Styled Home, features homes designed in his signature "Comfortable Chic" aesthetic alongside helpful design tips and processes. John has now taken his 15+ years of design business experience and launched an online education & business coaching program, The McClain Method where he instructs and coaches interior designers on best business practices. He continues these lessons on his popular podcast, The McClain Method. So in today's conversation, he and I dive into the real mechanics of running a design business, from the software we love and the ones we hate to the systems that actually support growth. We talk honestly about leadership, profitability, and why the right back-end structure can make or break a design studio. Today's episode is equal parts practical and refreshing, the kind of behind-the-scenes discussions that designers don't get to hear enough. Connect with John McClain: Check out John's AI Brand Voice Kickstart: https://www.mcclainmethod.com/kickstart_prompt John's Website: https://www.instagram.com/johnmcclaindesign Follow John on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themcclainmethod   Mentioned in this episode: Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/john-mcclain-design-business-systems 

I want to ask you something today: Have you ever been on a project and had a contractor basically tell you, whether that's directly or indirectly, that procurement is his territory, his to-do? That the ordering, the tracking, the managing of all materials and finishes, and fixtures that you spend months specifying is somehow not a part of your job or your role? Or have you ever caught yourself thinking, okay, so I take on construction.. I guess I need to give up my decorating work. I don't think I can be both things, right? Like, those are two different people, and you can only be one of them. Well, today we're going to blow both of those up because they're just myths, truly, and believing them is quietly costing you money, costing you authority, and definitely costing your clients the full version of what you're capable of.   Mentioned in this episode: Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance Join the waitlist for my course here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/construction-management-interior-designers    Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/designer-myths-busted 

Today's episode isn't about what to do when a project is already spiraling. It's about what to do before it ever has the chance.   Because in my 30+ years in the industry, there's one pattern I see on every stressful project: The chaos wasn't born in week 5. It snuck in quietly in week zero, when structure was loose, nobody owned the conversation, and "roles" were just… implied.   So today? We're fixing that.   I'm walking you through the 5 conversations you need to have before construction starts; the ones that separate calm, steady projects from chaotic, reactionary ones. And honestly? These will save your time, your energy, and your authority.   Ready? Let's make your next project one that feels as smooth as it looks.   Mentioned in this episode: Access the full video interview with Elana Steele of Steele Appliance here: https://www.reneedevignierdesign.com/appliance   Find the full shownotes at: https://devignierdesign.com/5-construction-conversations