Dean Jennifer Chatman, PhD 88 – Leading the Haas School of Business Into a Bright Future

On this special episode of OneHaas, Dr. Jennifer Chatman, Dean of the Haas School of Business, shares her career journey and her hopes for the future of Haas. Dean Chatman is not just a double bear, with an undergraduate degree and PhD from Haas, but has called UC Berkeley’s campus home for most of her life. In this interview, she chats with host Sean Li about growing up in an academic family, how her father, a Berkeley professor, inspired her to pursue a life of learning, how following her curiosity led to a pioneering career studying organizational culture, the enduring relevance of Haas' defining leadership principles, and why she thinks the future of Haas is very bright indeed.  *OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:On passing the baton from one Berkeley professor to another“ So I remember being out here just before I was about to start and my dad was just about to retire. We had lunch somewhere on campus and we were sitting on the steps of Harmon gym… and a student walks by and looks up and says, ‘Hi, Professor Chatman.’ And my dad looks at this student and he looks again. He said, ‘I don't recognize that student.’ I said, ‘Yeah, Dad, that's one of mine.’ So that was the official passing of the baton.”On finding a passion early on for social psychology“ I've always been fascinated by social interaction. And I remember in high school…I always loved to type up surveys and then I would go give them to people. I’d give them to my parents, I’d give them to my sisters. I’d give it to my friends, like, what did you have for breakfast? And, you know, A, B, C, or D. Right? And, I just found that sort of calculating of what people were doing and what were the similarities across people and what were the ways in which they diverged. I found both of those things very, very interesting.”On the importance of trusting and leaning into your curiosity “ I think the advice is trust your curiosity and trust what gets you excited and passionate and figure out a way to lean into it, and develop a pathway that involves the things that kind of get you up in the morning. You know, career paths are very, very long and you wanna be doing something that's interesting to you. That gives you energy and it's actually something I really admire and love about our Haas students. There is not one Haas student that I've ever run into who is anything less than completely fascinating. Every single one of our students is interesting. They have a unique and distinctive story. They have really wide ranging interests. I find it just a profound distinction that we're privileged to have this community of super interesting, passionate students.”On her hopes for the future of Haas “ I just think that this is a really incredible moment for our school and we're so full of ideas and our students are so capable and eager and brilliant. They are defining the future and I think that our humanity as well as our skills in leveraging technology, but it's our humanity that's going to allow us to flourish into the future. And I'm just really excited about that.”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileHaas ProfileProfessional WebsiteSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

In honor of Veterans Month, the OneHaas Alumni Podcast is pleased to welcome Cory Boatwright to the show. Cory is a Senior Advisor of Workforce Development, Strategies, and Programs for Hiring Our Heroes. Growing up in a working class home in Chico, California, Cory always knew he wanted to go to college, but coming from limited means made that a challenge. So he decided to start his career by first joining the military – a decision that sparked a lifetime passion for service and social impact work. Cory tells host Sean Li how his time in the Air Force prepared him for a successful career in business, what it felt like to fulfill his childhood dream of attending Haas, and how he’s giving back to the veteran community through his work at Hiring Our Heroes. *OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:On how the Air Force prepared him for a career in business“ I always knew that I wanted to be like a business person, right? And I kind of just made up this person, this fictitious person of who I wanted to be. And I took characteristics of people from books, magazines, shows, and stuff like that, of who I wanted to be as a business person. And so one of the things that I thought was like, okay, well, a business person has to be able to be a public speaker and speak in front of people…And so I was like, well, how do I do that? I don't have the skills to do that. So I joined the Air Force as a military broadcaster. I was like, I'm just gonna throw myself into this.”On his switch from the investment banking world to military programming“ There's a role that came open at LinkedIn to build out their military recruiting programs. I had zero experience as a recruiter. I wasn't a recruiter, but I was like, I'd really like to work with the military community. And so I talked to a friend of mine who owned a nonprofit… And he’s like, Cory, what do you do for free? And I was like, I help vets get jobs and get into school. And he’s like, you should figure out how to get paid to do that.”On fulfilling his longtime dream of attending Haas“...Immediately I was with my people and I was like, no doubt I'm coming here.  Just a huge sense of belonging. I went there and basically I was able to, between like the core courses, which every one of them really resonated with me, I loved the curriculum of the program, but also when it came to electives, I was able to build out a learning path for myself that was more geared towards buying a business than it was doing a startup.”On the work he’s doing at Hiring Our Heroes“ They come into our ecosystem and we're making sure that we're getting them to the places that they need to be. For instance, if somebody has a housing issue, they don't have housing or they're about to lose their housing, or they can't pay their utility bills, like that person's gonna be really difficult to help get a job because their basic needs aren't being met at that moment. And so we make sure that they're gonna get to the right people to be able to help them fix that issue and then come back into our orbit so that we can help them connect to meaningful employment. Not just jobs, but like jobs that matter, jobs that are gonna be sustainable, jobs that are gonna have good wages and benefits and stuff like that.”Show Links:LinkedIn profileHiring Our Heroes websiteCory’s book recommendation: HBR Guide to Buying a Small Business: Think Big, Buy Small, Own Your Own CompanySupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

On this episode of the OneHaas Alumni Podcast, meet Bryce Gilleland, a general partner at the Cal Innovation Fund, who is helping tomorrow’s most-innovative founders change the world. Bryce, a Californian through-and-through, grew up in Irvine before moving to San Francisco to begin his career at Pacific Gas and Electric. After many successful years in the energy sector, he hit a ceiling and saw the MBA program at Haas as a pathway forward. But what began as a practical step in his career turned into so much more. Bryce joins host Sean Li to discuss his journey from PG&E to venture capital and how coaching others and a personal growth mindset is at the core of everything Bryce does. *OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:On what led him to Haas and his drive to get an MBA“The beautiful part of the whole thing was like after going to Haas, it really opened up my eyes. You know, I saw a bunch of other students with a bunch of other jobs. I saw a bunch of people starting their own businesses and it really expands your mind going there and just talking to your fellow students and hearing some really inspirational professors and, you know, the chancellor now, Chancellor Lyons, he was the dean of Haas right when I joined, and he was super inspirational. So even at the welcome dinner, he was like, I want my students to learn all this stuff, but I really want them to learn: ‘They do that, we do that.’ And that line stuck with me so much where it's like, oh, okay, yeah, I don't have to just simply revere or wonder why other people did it. I could actually go leap in and try to do it myself.”On his decision to take a semester off and travel the world“ There was like a need to go do it and find more of myself, like shed the layers. So it was really, really cool that – you know, I'm forever thankful for Berkeley for many things. But one of them was that they were like, yeah, we have a method for this. We'll make it work. And they gave me that chance to do that.”How he ended up with the Cal Innovation Fund“ When this presented itself, I just dove in and was like, okay, I gotta have some ability to coach and impact leaders because that's what I feel like is kind of in my soul, almost, or my spirit is aligned towards that. And then I wanna be able to make an impact in the world. And, you know, the Cal fund aligns with that. Totally.”What opportunities the Cal Innovation Fund looks for“We try to invest in startups that are gonna make a greener, healthier, more sustainable world. So it's kind of a value-based fund. And then the fund donates 50% of the GP profits (so the company profits, not the investors’) back to the school. And so it just feels very aligned in that we're trying to support the Berkeley ecosystem, really all the UCs, but most founders are outta Berkeley, and trying to make the world a better place in the process. And then trying to give back to that system and create the flywheel of innovation for that.”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

For Hispanic Heritage Month, the OneHaas Alumni Podcast is honored to share the story of Richard Velazquez, a mission-driven executive who is using his decades of experience in a variety of industries to help other Latinx MBA students and alumni succeed. Every time Richard felt like he hit a ceiling at a job, he pivoted and found new ways to keep moving up. Hailing from Brooklyn, New York, Richard learned the value of education and hard work from an early age. It was this drive that got him accepted into one of the most competitive engineering colleges in the U.S. and launched his career into the automotive industry. Richard’s relentless pursuit for personal growth led him to hold senior leadership positions at Microsoft, Pepsico, and Amazon. But through all those jobs, a constant for him has been his desire to give back and uplift other Hispanic business professionals in their careers.  Richard chats with host Sean Li about his career journey from designing cars at Honda and Porsche, to being one of the key masterminds behind Xbox Kinect, his pivotal role at Pepsico, and his new position as CEO of the Latinx MBA Association.  *OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:On his journey to Haas and getting his MBA“When I had the opportunity to move to Germany to work for Porsche, I put my MBA plans on hold and I was like, you know, I'd rather go to Germany and live in Europe for a few years before I take that route. So it was great. I really loved living in Europe. That's where my love for traveling started. I've been to 105 countries since then, but it all started living in Germany…So after two years at Porsche in Germany, I applied through the Consortium for Graduate Study Management, they give full fellowships. At the time it was for underrepresented minorities who were looking to get their MBA and was open to anyone who has a commitment to diversity. And I applied, I got into Haas.”On Xbox Kinect’s success and Richard and his team’s involvement “People just really got into it... So the thing with Kinect was since it was doing skeletal tracking, if you just flick your wrist, the character on the screen would just flick their wrist. There was no like faking it. So Dance Central was phenomenal. It showed you which arm was wrong. It highlighted in red when you were doing something wrong and it was game changing at the time. So it set a Guinness World Record, it was the fastest selling consumer electronics device, it was like 10 million 10 million units in less than like two and a half months or something like that. So it was a big deal.”On his decision to leave Microsoft for the beverage industry and a top role at Pepsico“ It was similar to like the car design and like, it's gonna be slightly different [but] it's all gonna do the same thing. So it wasn't advantageous for me to do it 'cause I wasn't linear or growing in any way, shape or form.  I'm still an individual contributor. I'm not leading any teams. I want to get promoted, I want to advance.”On why he wanted to pursue a full time role in helping other Hispanic business professionals grow “ After 30 years, I was like, well, I'm getting more personal fulfillment from these scholarships that I'm getting for students who are like me who didn't have those opportunities to get into school, for helping people get their first jobs, for helping them invest in their careers, than I am by making an extra billion dollars or a hundred million dollars for Amazon or these other companies that don't really need it…It's not giving me the personal satisfaction that I'm getting from this work I'm doing with people.”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileLatinx MBA Association WebsiteSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

This month, the OneHaas Alumni Podcast is excited to share the story of Joshua Ahazie, founder and CEO of ATIDE and marketing lead at Warner Music Africa. Joshua grew up in Lagos, Nigeria in a household brimming with music and entrepreneurial spirit. After following one of his brothers to California and attending Berkeley City College, he set his sights on the Haas School of Business. Through his Haas education, Joshua found a way to combine his love for music with his desire to make the world a better place. Joshua joins host Sean Li to chat about the inception of the ATIDE Project and the community impact it’s had in Lagos. They also discuss the growth and global success of Afrobeats, his work with Warner Music Africa, and his vision for Nigeria's music industry.*OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:On what drew him to Berekley Haas“It was this campus and school that had values or principles that were very clear in their culture and they sort of embodied that into the learning process as well. So I was drawn to the principles because that was pretty new for me, and I just ended up spending the next couple of months learning more and more. I was stopping people that were wearing Berkeley Haas merch like, ‘how do I get into this castle atop the hill?’”On the origins of ATIDE“ So it started off as a philanthropic project, right? Our focus was sort of giving back with commerce. The name by the way, it's Yoruba and it means, ‘We are here.’ In the early days, we had launched this curated online store in partnership with a couple Nigerian entrepreneurs who were passionate about social causes. And during my time at Haas, I was very inspired by brands like Tom's. Like, you know, the idea that commerce could fund impact in a very sustainable way because as opposed to donations, you are actually building a customer, building an audience and that can scale. So our goal was simply to sort of help these local businesses reach the global audience while also funding meaningful social change.”On the important role music plays in his work“ That's the language I speak, man. Like, I play instruments, I collect records, I love seeing artists perform. It's such a vulnerable and expressive form of art. And even though we've worked across different industries –  hospitality, nonprofit, e-commerce, gaming, whatever it may be – my most exciting projects, personally, are our music campaigns and our artists like rollouts.” On the booming music scene in West Africa“ A couple of things that could have helped with the growth that we're seeing now is just the confidence that we have in our identity. I think in the early 2000s, we were sort of focused on fusion. How do we put in R&B with our sound and how do we put in this record with that one? But now, being African is cool and our artists are leaning into their identity of what it means to be African and make music as an African. I think that confidence in our Africanness has been something that has allowed us to sort of stand out in a very saturated music market globally.”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileATIDE ProjectThe Cavemen.JOEBOY Joyce OlongSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

On this episode of the OneHaas Alumni Podcast, learn how alum Liz Castelli went from a middle school science teacher to co-founder and CEO of Tinsel Experiential Design. After planning her own dream wedding, Liz wanted to pivot from education to the events planning space. With the help of her two friends, they launched Tinsel and quickly grew it from a boutique agency to a powerhouse experiential company working with clients like GitHub and Uber. Liz chats with host Sean Li about the evolution of Tinsel, the importance of having a clear vision when it comes to company culture, and why she wanted to pursue an executive MBA at Haas with an already successful business under her belt.*OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:On Tinsel’s early days“ How do brands connect with their audiences? This was sort of the beginning of experiential. And man, we were the redheaded stepchild. It would go through like capital A agency, it would go through create, it would go through digital, you name it, every other entity…And then they'd be like, I think there's $3 for experiential. And now it's wild. It's totally the opposite where everyone is thinking about how does the customer experience the product?”On why she wanted to pursue an executive MBA “ Well, if I'm going to be able to exist as this person who started a company and it is successful, I'd like to feel confident enough in a room of other people who run businesses and know what I'm talking about. And I do know for myself, but I've always done it by learning the hard way or by learning from other people that we've hired. And I think that I wanted to know that what I had done was right.”The surprising lessons she gained at Haas“ That's one of the greatest things that Berkeley gave me. I thought I was coming for the operations. I thought I was coming for the finance, but actually I was coming for politics and power and difficult conversations. And I can think of like 12 different classes where I'm like, oh my God, that's what I came to Berkeley for.”On where she’s headed next “ I have always thought of myself more as a builder, then this like visionary, you know, futurist if you will. And so I know that my skillset is around building tinsel into a sustainable model at scale within this holding corporation. That's what I'm excited to do. I'm excited to see the right teams and the right people and things sort of moving in the right direction and taking it from where we were post acquisition, which was still nothing to sniff at, you know. But I think there's just a different level of complexity and growth that's there. And I wanna see it through and I wanna make sure that Tinsel is an entity that will stay on and continue.”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileTinsel Experiential DesignSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

On this episode of the OneHaas Alumni Podcast, meet Christina Cairns, an international development professional who spent over 10 years at USAID and now helps expand financial access to under-capitalized business owners and entrepreneurs through the U.S. International Development Finance Corporation (DFC). With a background in international relations and environmental science, Christina joined USAID as a Foreign Service Officer in 2012 where she worked on climate change adaptation, clean energy, wildlife conservation, and improving economic conditions in places like sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean. Wanting to expand her financial knowledge, she decided to go back to school and pursue an Executive MBA at Haas in 2020.Christina chats with host Sean Li about her family’s deep roots in California, the challenging and inspiring work she’s done through various roles, including her time in the Foreign Service, the critical and often overlooked work of USAID, the impact of recent U.S. policy shifts, and her current role at the DFC.*OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:On growing up as a fifth generation Californian“ I grew up in the foothills near Sequoia National Park and from an early age was raised running around in the orange groves and going up to the mountains. Every summer, my dad would take my two older brothers and I backpacking for a few days and give my mom some rest before she started teaching school again in the fall. And I think that really shaped me in many ways: my love for the outdoors, appreciation for nature, cold, clear water, fresh air.”On the recent policy shifts that have affected USAID“I think a lot of Americans had no idea what USAID was until they heard about it in the news this February when it was ripped apart. And they were told that it was an agency that had been corrupted and was basically full of waste and fraud.So I would advise people to do their own research. There was actually something called the DEC [Development Experience Clearinghouse] where we put all of the project information, where all of your taxpayer dollars were going for USAID work, into this database. It showed who the contractor or grantee was, which are the main forms of how we got money out the door at USAID, and what that money was spent on. I would encourage people to go look at the current data on foreignassistance.gov and to see what your taxpayer dollars were spent on.”On her role with the U.S. International Development Finance Corporation“ What we do is we put in place these risk reduction mechanisms or incentives for financial institutions to take on more risk. To lend to a farmer who doesn't have title to their land but is still farming it because of antiquated titling systems or whatnot, or to women who can't legally own land because it has to be in their husband's name. So, how are these people going to get a loan? We help facilitate or work with the banks, and a lot of times, microfinance institutions to open up their lending aperture and get capital to people who will make really good use of it.”On her efforts to continue the impact of USAID’s work“ A former USAID colleague and I have submitted a proposal for funding to categorize all of the terminated climate projects that were started by USAID, with very basic information: what country was it in? What sector? Who was the local partner? What was the project aiming to do? How much financing or funding did it need? We want to put all that information into a platform for donors, foundations, impact investors, multilateral organizations like the World Bank or others, and ask, ‘Are you interested in continuing any of this work? This is work that has already been designed and vetted by the U.S. government, not to mention all of these people who are working on these programs are available if you would like them to continue the work.’ ”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

On this episode of the OneHaas Alumni Podcast, meet alum Shinghi Detlefsen, president of Wholesome Story and CEO of ExpandFi. Shinghi’s entrepreneurial spirit at a young age propelled him into a successful sales career with experience at major tech companies like Google and Amazon. After beginning his higher education at Berkeley City College, he transferred to Haas and a world of opportunity opened for him. Shinghi chats with host Sean Li about finding his entrepreneurial drive as a kid, the organizational lessons he gleaned from working at Amazon and Google, how he launched Wholesome Story with his wife, and why he believes everyone has the power to be the change they want to see in the world. *OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:How his entrepreneurial spirit began from a young age“ We moved to Virginia when I was like seven from California, and I remember we were doing a yard sale for like selling stuff before we left and I was in charge of the money and selling things and I still remember being a little kid like, I loved that. I loved selling things and making money. And it always was in my interest sphere. And like, even when we moved to Virginia…I was mowing lawns, making money. I think my parents also raised me with that type of mindset where there are no handouts. You don't just get money from your parents, you need to go earn it.”Lessons he learned from Amazon’s corporate culture “Amazon is a written culture, so there are no PowerPoints…You don't have a presentation where some guy stands up in front of everyone and talks about it. Everything's in a doc, so I had to learn how to write and that has been the most valuable asset that I've learned from Amazon. I still use it today. I try to have my own team lean into writing versus presenting just because it's so much more tangible and it also forces you to think very clearly.”On leaving Amazon to take Wholesome Story to the next level“ It was absolutely liberating…At Amazon, like you could really just work your ass off or any corporation and you can get 10% more in salary. And in a business you could work a thousand percent more and you can make a million percent more. It's like that return on your time and your effort is so much higher in entrepreneurship if things work out.”His advice to budding entrepreneurs“ I would focus on – aim to be a millionaire, not a billionaire. And I think, again, going back to that barrier mindset where you have the Googles and the Facebooks and that's who you want to be growing up. That's like a one in a billion chance of you hitting that, right? And a lot of people will spend a ton of time, they'll do a startup, they'll raise a ton of money, they'll be diluted to the point where they would've been better off becoming a millionaire. And so like my point to everyone is that there are million dollar opportunities everywhere, and it's simple. It's like you can create a million dollar business and you just take a problem, a small problem, and you solve it.”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileX ProfileMedium Article: “E-commerce Wars — and how the US is losing.”Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

In celebration of Pride Month, the OneHaas Alumni Podcast is honored to have Laurie Reemeyer, a sustainable mining consultant, share his journey. For much of Laurie’s early career in the mining industry in Australia, he kept his identity as a gay man separate from his work. But after more than a decade of hiding this key part of himself, he decided it was time for a fresh start in the form of an MBA degree at Haas. Laurie chats with host Sean Li about his struggles with accepting and embracing his sexuality in a traditionally conservative environment, the pivotal role Haas has played in his life, how he’s giving back through Q@Haas, and how he’s working to make mining more sustainable through his consultancy firm Resourceful Paths. *OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:How going from mining in Australia to Haas changed his life“ I think with Australia, by the time that I left, things were changing. I was safe in the cities…I was not feeling safe at all to come out at work. And really that's where Berkeley was a fundamental change in my life because when I came to Berkeley, I just came out the first day I was there. And that was such a liberating experience compared to that feeling of suppression and separation that I felt in the mining industry in Australia.”On the work he’s doing with Resourceful Paths ”When we talk about helping you mine responsibly, what I'm really talking about is how do we do things in ways that minimize environmental impact that are more socially acceptable? How do we incorporate practices that reduce energy use, water use, that reduce footprint, those types of things.”On living authentically Being your full self to whatever extent you can and recognizing that in the LGBTQ+ community, that's really primarily the journey of coming out. And that's something that people have to do at their own pace. It's a unique journey for everyone. And we can't necessarily live authentically completely straight away because there may be issues around physical danger, around social pressures, cultural issues, et cetera, which you've gotta navigate through. But that's very important that people, you know, feel that they can be themselves, be their true selves to the largest extent they can.”On being a good ally“Are we showing up, firstly? Are we showing up authentically? Is it about supporting the community or is it about ourselves? So if we're showing up because we just want to feel good about ourselves, et cetera, well, sorry, that's not enough. It's not okay actually. I think allyship has to be something much deeper and I think you're gonna stand with those people and support them authentically when the time gets tough or not.”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileResourceful PathsSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

The OneHaas Alumni Podcast is pleased to welcome Keith and Kenneth Tsang, who are not only identical twins, but also had identical triple majors at UC Berkeley – political science, psychology, and business.After being born in the Bay Area, Keith and Kenneth moved to Hong Kong where they spent the first formative years of their childhood. Growing up in a family that prioritized education and exploration, the twins developed a strong sense of curiosity for the world around them. It’s this curiosity that sparked their desire to pursue not one, but three majors for their undergraduate degrees at UC Berkeley. Keith and Kenneth chat with host Sean Li about how they applied those three majors to careers in entrepreneurship, lessons they learned from growing up in Hong Kong and then reacclimating in the U.S., and how their career journeys have taken shape thanks to a healthy dose of staying curious and making friends. *OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:Kenneth on why their decision to add business as a second major“ I think we were just blown away from the beginning, like, wow, all this business stuff is completely different from your history class and your chemistry classes in high school. It felt practical and relevant. And I think we were hooked pretty early on. And I think, to be honest, I think Keith and I are a bit competitive, and then I think with Haas, some people might know, the undergraduate is competitive and we figured we can do this too. So let's get in on this game and succeed here.”Keith on how the brothers identify entrepreneurial opportunities“ I've worked in all kinds of businesses and industries, obviously venture capital, then you have Nest with thermostats. I've also worked at LinkedIn and Meta, big companies, but also small companies doing housekeeping double-sided marketplace and robot delivery pizza. So it's a little bit of everything. But part of that is just being open to what's interesting, like do you see value here? Like are you able to have an impact? So that's like the first checkbox you're looking at: can you actually do something that is influencing change? And the second part of it is just being able to be open with your network… like you're talking to people and you're learning about these things and when something catches your interest, you just learn a little bit more and see whether you have a role to play in that. So I think that's, at a high level, that's what it really is, being open to these opportunities.”Kenneth on being a student always“ …Just to plug the Haas values, just being student always, I think the learning never stops. And I think that curiosity sort of kept us going. And in hindsight, I think a lot of these things are hard to plan. They're kind of serendipitous, but I think if you're open to learning and then having that curiosity is what sort of led us down these paths that we've taken.”Keith on how their parents nurtured their curiosity early on“ They definitely provided us with different opportunities to explore our interests – playing different sports, soccer, baseball, being in the Boy Scouts, which I think was actually one of the best experiences. It was kind of where we were able to just experience all kinds of things like archery, horseback riding, stuff like that, and just try different things. And I think that really is important for setting that foundation to be curious always, is that you are able, you're comfortable being in new situations and after the first time you realize that's enjoyable, you do it a second time, it's still enjoyable and you just keep it up. But I think if you were in a situation or environment where that is limited, you're always being constantly told no, I can very much see how that could be hampered.”Show Links:Kenneth’s LinkedIn ProfileKeith’s LinkedIn ProfileSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations