Ep. 626 – Mindrolling Revisited: The Magnitude of Melodies w/ Jai Uttal

In this music-filled re-release, Raghu Markus is joined by spiritual musician Jai Uttal to chat about opening our hearts through the magnitude of melodies.Get your copy of All In This Together, the latest book from Jack Kornfield! Let this new book be your guide, as Jack reveals how to navigate our human experience with wisdom and care. Inside you’ll find a beautiful collection of stories, inspiration for conflict resolution, and powerful teachings on healing, justice, and human kindness—anchored in the teachings of the Buddha and poetry from luminary voices like Mary Oliver. Click here to learn more!In this episode, Raghu and Jai Uttal discuss:The formation of melodic structures and how music is as boundless as an oceanLetting go of the idea that we must master an instrument in order to create musicGetting into the flow of devotional music and honoring God through our presence rather than perfectionThe friendship between Jai Uttal and Ram Dass and Jai’s journey to IndiaThe Baul’s of Bengal and mystical, spontaneous verseJai’s single, Holy Mad Men, inspired by Bengali-style musicMore Bengali-influenced music by The BandThe dotara, an Indian folk instrument Jai frequently usesMusical creation as the legacy of satsang and a path to continued connectionCheck out Ali Akbar Khan to hear some classical Indian Ragas and the sarod instrument that Raghu and Jai discuss.About Jai Uttal:Jai Uttal is a Grammy-nominated sacred music composer, recording artist, multi-instrumentalist, and ecstatic vocalist. Having traveled extensively in India, he met many great saints and singers and Bhakti Yoga became his personal path. Jai has been leading, teaching, and performing kirtan around the world for nearly 50 years. He creates a safe environment for people to open their hearts and voices.“Music is way more vast than any one human person can understand.” –Jai UttalSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Anne Lamott, Raghu Markus, and RamDev reveal that letting go of how life should be opens the door to compassion, healing, and contentment with reality.This Dharma Session was recorded at the December 2025 Ram Dass Open Your Heart in Paradise Retreat. Learn about upcoming community events HERE.This week on Mindrolling, Raghu, Anne, and RamDev hold a talk on:Standing in presence with change and impermanenceRam Dass’ eye-opening story of a farmer and his son How investing in that which changes leads to sufferingCollective healing through all the grief in the world The negative emotions that arise when we resist changeCreating an intimate, compassionate relationship with the sense of lossAnne’s experiences of radicalizing change in her own lifeWise Hope: taking leaps of faith and hoping that things will work out as they shouldAbout Anne Lamott:Anne Lamott is the New York Times best-selling author of many books, including collections of essays, novels, and long-form non-fiction, including the classic writing manual Bird by Bird and child-rearing memoir Operating Instructions. In addition to being a novelist and nonfiction writer, Lamott is also a progressive political activist, public speaker, and writing teacher. Keep up with Anne on Instagram.“It's very hard to be human here; it's scary. I feel like Cindy-Lou Who sometimes, like this tiny little being. ‘Be still my heart and wait without hope’–what I hope is that things will sort out the way they should for the common welfare.” - Anne LamottAbout RamDev:RamDev Dale Borglum is the founder and Executive Director of The Living/Dying Project. He is a pioneer in the conscious dying movement and has worked directly with thousands of people with life-threatening illness and their families for over 30 years. In 1981, Dale founded the first residential facility for people who wished to die consciously in the United States, The Dying Center. He has taught and lectured extensively on the topics of spiritual support for those with life-threatening illness, on caregiving as a spiritual practice, and on healing at the edge, the edge of illness, of death, of loss, of crisis. Check out RamDev’s podcast, Healing at the Edge, on the Be Here Now Network.Learn more about The Living/Dying Project at livingdying.org“When we’re in the heart, it gives us the possibility of being with grief and change in a way that leads to healing. There is a profoundly wonderful line by Rumi where he says ‘grief is the garden of compassion.” –RamDevSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Looking through a Jungian lens, Psychologist Dr. John Price and Raghu Markus have a discussion on the mechanics of awakening.This week on Mindrolling, Raghu and John chat about:What we can learn from the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance Jungian philosophy and creating balance within the psyche Attraction to the arts, music, and alternative ways of beingComparing youth and coming of age today versus in the pastThe growth and learning that happens through adversity Cultivating trust with those who are woundedMaking compassionate response our default state, especially when dealing with childrenLeaving one’s culture to truly understand where we come fromVarious ways of cultivating non-ordinary statesHow society often stifles our experiences of mystical eventsThe current psychedelic revolution and therapeutic utility of entheogens Check out William Blake’s The Book of Urizen for a deep dive into mystical literature“That’s obviously one’s religious and spiritual experience that is totally, uniquely yours. We know the definition of a mystical experience: it’s ineffable, it’s transitive, it’s a unitive experience. I’m willing to say that most of us have had these kinds of experiences, and yet because our culture doesn't support that world view, we write them off as what you can call the ‘nothing but’.” –Dr. John PriceAbout Dr. John Price:Dr. John Price is a Jungian psychotherapist, co-founder of The Center for Healing Arts & Sciences, and host of The Sacred Speaks podcast. John’s journey from touring musician to single fatherhood reshaped his understanding of human transformation. John’s work bridges ancient wisdom with modern psychology—offering tools for shedding the adaptations that once saved us but now imprison us. Learn more about John’s offerings on his website.“Jung would call this the inferior function given that I’m so feeling-oriented and intuitive. To actually get into the thinking and sensing function is something that I’m very much trying to counterbalance. That’s my inferior function. From his philosophical orientation, it’s a way to create wholeness where you counterbalance the one-sidedness of our psyche.” –Dr. John PriceSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Discussing the loving-kindness lessons in Kind Karl, Sharon’s first children’s book, Raghu, Duncan, and Sharon chat about raising mindful kids who can become mindful adults.  Kind Karl will be released on 12/9!  Co-authored by Jason Gruhl, this illustrated picture book is for 4-8 year-olds and is a new children’s adaptation of Sharon’s beloved book Lovingkindness. To learn more about Sharon’s forthcoming children’s book, Kind Karl, and pre-order a copy with a special pre-order gift, you can visit Sharon’s website, right here. This time on Mindrolling, Duncan, Sharon, and Raghu connect over:Sharon’s upcoming children’s book on mindfulness and loving-kindness, Kind KarlUnderstanding how habits like greed and fear begin in early childhoodHow issues like greed have roots in early childhoodLearning from Karl the Crocodile: navigating big feelings, mistakes, and emotional complexityKarl the Crocodile as an inspiration for parents dealing with guilt and stressMaking mindfulness accessible and engaging for children of all agesPutting our thoughts onto clouds and allowing them to float awayLoving-kindness meditations for kids: getting the whole family into mindfulness practiceAbout Sharon Salzberg:Sharon Salzberg is a meditation pioneer, world-renowned teacher, and New York Times bestselling author. She is one of the first to bring mindfulness and lovingkindness meditation to mainstream American culture over 45 years ago, inspiring generations of meditation teachers and wellness influencers. Sharon is co-founder of The Insight Meditation Society in Barre, MA, and the author of twelve books, including the New York Times bestseller, Real Happiness, now in its second edition, and her seminal work, Lovingkindness. Her podcast, The Metta Hour, has amassed five million downloads and features interviews with thought leaders from the mindfulness movement and beyond. Learn more about Sharon and her books at www.sharonsalzberg.com and check out Insight Meditation Society. “It’s not a small thing to have even a little act of kindness because of what’s happening to us inside. That’s something Karl the Crocodile gets into. He really decides to change when he makes that experiment, which can be kind of radical: help them instead of hurt them, help yourself, and forgive yourself. How does it feel inside when we choose that?” –Sharon SalzbergAbout  Duncan Trussell:Duncan Trussell is a stand-up comedian, podcaster, and actor. His popular podcast, The Duncan Trussell Family Hour, has been downloaded over 25 million times and is known for its blend of humor, fringe ideas, eclectic guests, and great interviews. The DTFH is the foundation for Duncan’s Netflix animated series, The Midnight Gospel, which he co-created with Pendleton Ward in 2020. To learn more about Duncan’s work, visit his website at duncantrussell.com. "It starts right at the beginning, they want each other's toys. This is built into us. Whenever you look out into the world at the stuff going on and the big picture, it really isn't that different from siblings, except the problem is that these are adults and there isn't anyone to tell them, okay, you're getting a time out." –Duncan TrussellSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Celebrating the release of There Is No Other, a new book of teachings from Ram Dass’ lectures, Parvati Markus and Raghu Markus listen to and reflect on some of the material used in its creation.This special episode of Mindrolling celebrates the new book, There Is No Other, a collection of teachings taken from Ram Dass’ lectures. In these times, Ram Dass’ teachings on wholeness and unity are more needed than ever.We begin with a clip of Ram Dass exploring the mindset of “us versus them.” Who exactly is us? Who is them? Raghu and Parvati reflect on how this clip is central to the theme of There Is No Other.The next clip features Ram Dass talking about the balance of heart and mind. Sharing a powerful real-life example, he explores how we cut ourselves off when we veil our hearts. Raghu and Parvati share how the book is about walking a path to harmony and wholeness.The third clip finds Ram Dass examining Ramana Maharshi’s concept of “God, Guru, Self,” and how we can begin to appreciate that the Spirit is everywhere. Parvati and Raghu discuss how Ram Dass’ new book speaks to this really important moment in our lives.We end with a brief clip of Ram Dass talking about the path of love. “Finally,” he says, “you become an environment, a vibratory rate…”The Ram Dass community gathers regularly to engage in meaningful discussions about the podcast. We invite you to join us and share your curiosities, insights, and wisdom. Sign up for the General Fellowship to receive event invitations directly in your inbox.“So the mind, if it gets too strong, out of balance with the heart, shuts down all the information that the heart can give. It cuts you off from your wisdom, really. You don’t even see all the stuff. I mean, you and I are simultaneously existing on so many planes of reality, but because of the power of our minds, we keep limiting which realities are real, and the rest of it we either treat as error or we don’t even notice. It’s so deeply unconscious, we just don’t even notice all the rest of us, of ourselves.” – Ram DassSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Raghu Markus and Psychoanalyst Dr. Jeffrey Rubin unpack how mindfulness, empathy, and self-understanding connect the worlds of Buddhism and Western therapy.In this Mindrolling episode, Raghu and Dr. Rubin discuss:Jeffrey’s traditional upbringing and the unexpected spiritual experience he had during a basketball gameKey parallels between Western psychotherapy and Buddhist wisdomHow “hovering attention” and mindfulness support both therapists and clientsIdentifying pure presence in numerous activities, from chanting to sports and beyond The marriage of Buddha and Freud: moment-to-moment non-judgmental, non-interfering presence Why some Buddhist practitioners can be “one with experience” but struggle to articulate what that truly meansViewing our symptoms as beautiful gateways to transformation rather than obstaclesPutting practice into everyday life and helping people truly live differentlyEmpathetically understanding those we disagree with Becoming open to feedback and growth instead of shutting down new ideas The ways in which we maladaptively try to cure ourselves What real, sustainable transformation actually looks like in practiceGrab one of Jeffrey’s central works, Meditative Psychotherapy: The Marriage of East and WestAbout Dr. Jeffrey B. Rubin:Dr. Rubin practices psychoanalysis and psychoanalytically-oriented psychotherapy and teaches meditation in New York City and Bedford Hills, New York. Widely regarded as a leading integrator of the Western psychotherapeutic and Eastern meditative traditions, Dr. Rubin created Meditative Psychotherapy based on decades of study, teaching and helping people to flourish. Dr. Rubin is the author of six books and numerous publications. He has taught at universities, psychoanalytic institutes and Buddhist and yoga centers. Dr. Rubin lectures in the US and has given workshops at the UN, the Esalen Institute, the Open Center and the 92nd Street Y. His pioneering approach to psychotherapy and Buddhism has been featured in The New York Times Magazine.​ Sign up HERE for a workshop on self-transformation with Dr. Rubin“I call it the marriage of Buddha and Freud. It’s any practice that cultivates moment-to-moment, non-judgmental, non-interfering presence. That can be qigong, prayer, or Sufi dancing. I don’t want the audience to think it has to be Buddhist; it can be many things. It just happens to be very well done in Buddhism. It’s any sincere path that will help you focus, concentrate, have more self-compassion and compassion for others.” –Dr. Jeffrey B. RubinSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode of Mindrolling is a collection of some of the most potent teachings from Raghu’s conversations with experts and researchers in the field of psychedelics.In this Mindrolling Anthology:Clip 1 (Ep. 348) – We begin with a clip from one of Raghu’s conversations with Rick Doblin, who is a leader of the current psychedelic renaissance. They discuss grief, PTSD, and the role of psychedelics in trauma processing.Clip 2 (Ep. 497) – Next up is a snippet from Raghu’s talk with Dr. Sylvestre Quevedo, a psychedelic researcher who has practiced medicine for over 40 years. They explore how ketamine fits into the picture of psychedelics and share stories of their own experiences.Clip 3 (Ep. 505) – We move on to a discussion with Paul Austin, an entrepreneur, author, and coach. He and Raghu talk about how psychedelics can help us remember who we truly are and the potential they hold for healing relationships.Clip 4 (Ep. 563) – Next, we have neuropharmacologist Stephanie Karzon Abrams. She and Raghu discuss bridging the gap between science and spirit, and how psychedelics can help change our perspectives.Clip 5 (Ep. 596) – The final clip is from a conversation between Raghu and neuroscientist Gül Dölen. They talk about how psychedelics induce meta-plasticity and why “critical periods” after psychedelic therapies are similar to the Buddhist concept of beginner’s mind.“But really, what psychedelics are teaching us is the importance of presence, how to listen, how to slow down, right? They’re helping to sort of take us out of this rigamarole, this hamster wheel of existence, and see that another way of being is actually possible. And really, what’s required more than anything is a loving, compassionate presence.” – Paul AustinSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Raghu sits down with clinical psychologist and meditation teacher Dr. Tucker Peck to explore the meeting point of dharma and psychotherapy.If you are in the U.S., you can directly purchase a paperback copy of Sanity & Sainthood HERE. Otherwise, head over to Amazon for both paperback and ebook formats. In this episode of Mindrolling, Raghu and Tucker discuss:Tucker’s first mind-altering meditative experience on the beachIncluding the dharma in psychotherapy and Tucker’s work in meditation as a therapeutic modalityHow Tucker developed a relationship with Sharon Salzberg and learned mindfulness techniques from herThe eccentric story of Grandma Allegra: enlightenment, humor, and being in love with the world The question of psychedelics—are they ‘necessary’ for elevating consciousness?Working with the mind and the difference between content and process The pros and cons of the ego and why we need to first know ourselves before dissolving the selfThe Elephant Path, a nine-step practice for building concentration, insight, and awakened awarenessAbout Tucker Peck, Ph.D.:Dr. Tucker Peck is a meditation teacher, clinical psychologist, and bestselling author of Sanity and Sainthood.  His specialties include working with advanced meditators and using meditation to help those suffering from psychological disorders.  He hosts the podcast Teaching Meditation. Tucker began formal training in meditation in 2005 and has studied with, among other teachers, Sharon Salzberg and Upasaka Culadasa.Tucker received his undergraduate degree in Psychology from Brown University, and he received his Masters and Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology from the College of Science at the University of Arizona. Tucker is a published author on the scientific study of meditation, focusing on how meditation affects the brain. He is a former faculty member of both the University of Arizona Department of Psychology and College of Medicine, and he is the founder and former Director of Palo Santo Psychotherapy & Wellness.  He is the founder, treasurer, and past president of the Open Dharma Foundation, which provides scholarships to meditation retreats, and for four years served as the president of the Tucson Community Meditation Center.  Keep up with Tucker and his upcoming retreats HERE.“The trouble is, the ego is trying to protect you from threats and it is very, very unclear on what does and doesn’t constitute a threat. It tends to think any sort of emotion constitutes a threat, any sort of insight into how the mind or perceptual system works is more than you can handle, so what you want is to slowly get to know yourself.” –Tucker Peck, Ph.D.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode of Mindrolling is a collection of some of the best moments from Raghu’s conversations with his podcast guru, the one and only Duncan Trussell.In this Mindrolling Anthology:Clip 1 (Ep. 4): From the very beginning, it was love at first sight. In their first Mindrolling conversation, Duncan and Raghu talk about how they met.Clip 2 (Ep. 94): Recorded live at the 2014 “Open Your Heart in Paradise” retreat in Maui, Duncan explores his crippling video game addiction, his early connection to Ram Dass, and a beautiful moment he shared with his mother before she passed away.Clip 3 (Ep. 144): From Sartre to Skinner to Gurdjieff, Raghu and Duncan get philosophical about gratitude, ego structures, and premeditated murder. Get your insanity defense ready!Clip 4 (Ep. 297): In this conversation about identity, personality, and motivation, Duncan and Raghu invoke the wisdom of Trungpa Rinpoche and his lack of glue when it came to his Trungpa-ness.Clip 5 (Ep. 385): Everybody watch out, the mischief man is here. Duncan expresses some of his frustrations with the spiritual path, while Raghu talks about how honest intention allows for transformation.Clip 6 (Ep. 518): What is the movie of me? Raghu and Duncan discuss an idea so essential to their ongoing conversation that they wrote a book about it. Just don’t tell Krishna Das!Pick up a copy of There Is No Other, a new book of essential wisdom from Ram Dass & Friends for an age of disconnection: Click To Learn MoreAbout Duncan Trussell:Duncan Trussell is a stand-up comedian, podcaster, and actor. His popular podcast, The Duncan Trussell Family Hour, has been downloaded over 25 million times and is known for its blend of humor, fringe ideas, eclectic guests, and great interviews. The DTFH is the foundation for Duncan’s Netflix animated series, The Midnight Gospel, which he co-created with Pendleton Ward in 2020. To learn more about Duncan’s work, visit his website at duncantrussell.com.“When my mom was dying, I said to her, ‘What do you want me to do?’ Something you ask your mom when they’re dying. And she had a spiritual practice, a real spiritual practice; she was very dedicated to it. Every morning, she would wake up and meditate for a long time. And you see, when someone’s dying, holy cow, you see how incredible that practice can be, because the grace with which she left the universe was just stunning. It’s beautiful. I was like, ‘What do you want me to do?’ And she said to me, ‘Expand.’” – Duncan TrussellSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Merging art, science, and spirit, authors and intellectuals Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross illuminate why creativity is essential for humanity.Grab a copy of Susan and Ivy’s Book: Your Brain on Art: How the Arts Transform UsIn this episode of Mindrolling, Raghu, Susan, and Ivy explore:Redefining art as any medium that allows someone to express themselvesLearning to see the world with fresh eyes and creative curiosityThe powerful reflection: has there ever been a time when the arts have personally affected you?Resonance and vibration as the center of the universe Music as a pathway to experience oneness with all thingsThe miracle of neuroplasticity—rewiring the brain and making new pathwaysConfronting ourselves with a new piece of art or doing a new arts practice Play through art: letting go of any preconceived outcome and simply playing with ideas and conceptsWhy change requires time, patience, and habitual practice Remembering that art in ancient cultures was highly valued and integrated into daily lifeThe aesthetic mindset and walking through the world with attention to beauty in every detailListen to Sit Around the Fire, a collaborative musical journey with Jon Hopkins, East Forest, and Ram DassAbout Susan Magsamen:Susan Magsamen is the founder and director of the International Arts + Mind Lab, Center for Applied Neuroaesthetics at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, where she is a faculty member. She is also the co-director of the NeuroArts Blueprint. Susan works with both the public and private sectors using arts and culture evidence-based approaches in areas including health, child development, education, workforce innovation, rehabilitation and social equity.“It’s personal; it could be crocheting for her, gardening for somebody else, it could be I’m a collager, we’re all talking about personalized medicine and precision medicine, and the arts are probably the most personalized medicine that there is.” –Susan Magsamen About Ivy Ross:Ivy Ross is the Vice President of Design for hardware product area at Google, where she leads a team that has won over 225 design awards. She is a National Endowment for Arts grant recipient and was ninth on Fast Company's list of the one hundred Most Creative People in Business in 2019. Ross believes that the intersection of arts and sciences is where the most engaging and creative ideas are found. “I think we’ve been focusing on productivity and efficiency and pushing these arts aside as a ‘nice to have’, not as an imperative to our health and wellness. Through the work on this book with Susan, learning more about the physiology of how we are wired to receive the sensorial nature of life, it’s no wonder when we deprive ourselves of that, why we’re in the state we’re in.” –Ivy RossSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.