Masters of Scale podcast

The “best practices” corrupting business, with Eric Ries and Krista Tippett

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Costco has terrible governance. By conventional ratings, Patagonia would score even worse. And since 2008, companies rated as having good governance have actually performed worse for their shareholders. Recorded live at Masters of Scale Summit in San Francisco, this special episode brings together Eric Ries, author of The Lean Startup, and Krista Tippett, host of On Being, to dig into Eric’s new book, Incorruptible. Eric explains why he’s now calling it corruption when a company people love turns extractive as it scales, how what he calls financial gravity pulls even great organizations toward the same dismal shape, and why shareholder primacy is a far newer idea than most leaders realize.

This conversation was recorded live as part of Masters of Scale Summit on October 22, 2026 in San Francisco.

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