Episode 165: Melissa Burdick from Pacvue on the state of commerce media, plus TTD's continued woes

Melissa Burdick of Pacvue breaks down how commerce media is evolving beyond retail, why fragmentation is still the biggest challenge for brands, and how AI is reshaping product discovery across platforms. The conversation covers the rise of agentic commerce, Amazon’s dominance, and what the future of buying, measurement, and optimization looks like in a rapidly changing ecosystem. Takeaways Commerce media goes beyond retail and includes discovery, AI driven experiences, and new buying environments. Fragmentation across retailers remains a major challenge for brands managing multiple platforms. Amazon still dominates commerce media with the majority of market share. AI is shifting search from keywords to prompts and changing how products are discovered. Agentic commerce is early but expected to evolve significantly in the coming years. Incrementality in retail media is complex and difficult to measure accurately. Chapters 00:00 Intro + Marketecture Live recap 03:22 Startup showcase + guest intro (Pacvue) 06:58 Retail media vs. commerce media 10:42 Fragmentation + Amazon dominance 14:17 AI shopping, Rufus, and agentic commerce 20:11 In-store media + incrementality debate 25:11 AI in commerce and discovery shifts 30:00 AI campaign tools (Trade Desk, PubMatic, MiQ) 36:40 Publicis vs. TTD + transparency issues 45:34 Walmart, OpenAI, Meta, and future outlook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ari Paparo sits down with Jeff Green, CEO of The Trade Desk, at Marketecture Live for a wide-ranging conversation about the future of advertising. Jeff discusses his massive insider stock purchase, the evolving role of AI in programmatic advertising, and potential new ad opportunities inside AI chat platforms and retail media. The discussion also covers the future of Amazon’s DSP, open vs. closed advertising ecosystems, OpenPath supply chain efficiency, CTV strategy through Ventura, and why programmatic advertising may be one of the industries best suited for agentic AI. Takeaways AI chat platforms could become a major new advertising channel Programmatic advertising is highly suited for AI and automation Retail media and sponsored listings remain powerful ad formats Amazon’s DSP future may be limited by broader business risks The industry debate is shifting from transparency to open vs. closed systems “Practical transparency” matters more than excessive reporting OpenPath aims to improve supply chain efficiency AI will increasingly automate campaign management Ventura aims to power the streaming ad ecosystem on connected TVs Premium content remains central to ad value Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Marketecture Live recap 01:27 Jeff Green’s insider stock purchase and market signals 02:45 The potential for ads inside AI chat platforms 05:11 Retail media and product listing ads 08:02 Why Amazon’s DSP may not exist in five years 12:00 Transparency versus outcomes in digital advertising 16:17 OpenPath and supply chain efficiency 20:31 The Trade Desk’s AI strategy 25:00 AI tools for campaign creation 25:40 The rise of CTV and Ventura’s strategy 29:14 Hedge gardens like Reddit and Spotify 31:30 Closing remarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brian Wieser, founder of Madison and Wall, joins Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi to discuss why the digital ad market is stronger than expected and what recent earnings reveal about platforms and ad tech companies. The conversation covers retail media growth, DSP competition, and how companies like Amazon, OpenAI, and The Trade Desk are approaching the next phase of advertising, along with Brian’s view on AI’s impact on agencies, CTV, and the broader ad ecosystem. Takeaways The digital ad market is strong, growing about 15 percent despite economic uncertainty. Ad growth is driven more by competition and new categories than by GDP. Retail media is expanding as retailers increase competition between brands. Agencies may benefit from AI, as marketers still need human guidance. AI platforms are starting to explore new advertising models. Chapters 00:00 Intro and Marketecture Live preview 03:10 The state of the digital advertising market 07:00 What drives ad market growth today 10:30 DSP competition and The Trade Desk’s market share 15:00 Retail media growth and Walmart’s momentum 20:30 AI disruption, SaaS concerns, and agencies 27:00 Streaming consolidation and CTV economics 33:40 OpenAI partnerships and the future of AI advertising 39:30 Amazon expanding its advertising ecosystem 45:00 AI marketing tools and Jeff Green’s $150M Trade Desk stock purchase Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eric Seufert (Mobile Dev Memo) joins Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi for a wide-ranging conversation on the future of apps, AI agents, walled gardens, and the shifting power dynamics in digital advertising. They dive into the so-called “SaaS-pocalypse” and discuss whether AI agents could replace apps entirely. They also discuss Apple’s emerging AI gatekeeping strategy (and what it means for developers), Meta’s acquisition of Manus and the automation of advertising, and AppLovin’s reported ambitions to build a social network from scratch. Along the way, they explore whether independent ad tech can survive in a world dominated by Meta and Google, how AI is reshaping landing pages and commerce journeys, and why fully autonomous “agentic commerce” may be more mirage than inevitability. Takeaways AI agents may change how people use apps, but apps will not disappear.  Owning the user surface area matters because it protects monetization and customer relationships.  Agentic commerce sounds compelling, but platform incentives make full disintermediation unlikely.  Apple is tightening rules around sending personal data to third-party AI services, and enforcement is increasing through app rejections.  Apple keeps definitions vague to preserve latitude, which can create uncertainty for developers.  Apple may use Private Cloud Compute partnerships to control AI distribution and take a share of revenue.  Running meaningful AI inference on a device is limited by memory, so cloud processing remains central.  Meta’s Manus acquisition reinforces the push toward end-to-end campaign automation in Ads Manager.  The next step is AI that improves the post-click journey, not just the ad setup.  Meta’s business AI vision could move optimization from landing pages into conversational purchase guidance.  Some startups should look beyond Meta’s core strengths and build in channels that Meta is less focused on.  Building a new social network requires massive spending, but AppLovin has the cash flow and distribution to attempt it. Chapters 00:00 Intro & Eric Seufert Returns 02:26 Marketecture Live Announcements 06:11 The SaaS-pocalypse 10:14 Why Apps Won’t Die 11:54 Why Super Apps Failed in the West 13:27 Private Markets & AI Valuations 14:10 Apple’s AI Tracking Transparency 17:08 Apple’s Gatekeeping Strategy 21:15 App Store Delays & Vibe Coding 22:24 Meta’s Manus Acquisition 24:12 Meta’s Business AI Vision 29:44 Can Anyone Compete With Meta? 30:45 AppLovin’s Social Network Ambitions 36:04 Infillion Acquires Catalina 41:26 The Trade Desk Earnings Breakdown 46:23 Executive Turnover & Competitive Landscape 50:38 Profound’s $1B Valuation 54:14 AdSense for AI & LLM Monetization 58:00 Walmart Connect Growth Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nate Elliott, Principal Analyst at eMarketer, joins Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi to talk through what’s actually happening with AI adoption in marketing and commerce. He shares a practical view on how many consumers actively use AI tools, why usage stats are often misleading, and why most AI influence on shopping still happens outside chatbots. The group also digs into GEO and AEO, agency and CMO priorities, and the growing debate over content licensing and the health of the open web. Takeaways Only about 15–20% of US online consumers use AI tools weekly, despite AI touching nearly every digital experience. Most AI-influenced commerce happens through research and discovery, not direct purchases inside chatbots. GEO feels like SEO in 1998, full of experimentation, aggressive tactics, and unclear measurement. CMOs are focused more on internal AI productivity gains than flashy external AI activations. Agencies may reach near-universal AI usage internally, but that does not mean AI replaces 95% of marketing output. The health of the open web is critical to AI platforms, making content licensing a long-term strategic issue. Chapters 00:00 Nate Elliott’s background and role leading AI research at eMarketer 07:30 How many consumers are actually active AI users 11:50 AI and commerce: direct transactions vs influence 14:40 GEO and the Wild West phase of AI search optimization 18:30 What CMOs are prioritizing in their AI strategy 23:20 Agencies, AI adoption, and the 95% marketing debate 26:00 AI disclosure, creative production, and labeling concerns 32:00 Content marketplaces and whether Google will pay publishers 38:00 Reddit, AI optimization, and measurement challenges 44:00 Agency rebates and media transparency 47:30 Amazon becomes Fortune’s number one company Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Matthew Egol, Founder & CEO of JourneySpark Consulting, joins Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi to break down agentic advertising and what AdCP means for the industry, from AI’s Super Bowl moment to standards governance, Prebid collaboration, IAB alignment, and how AI agents are reshaping planning, creative, and measurement across marketing. Takeaways AI took over the Super Bowl, with roughly a quarter of ads tied to AI. Agentic advertising expands from buying to planning, discovery, and measurement. AgenticAdvertising.org focuses on standards, governance, and certification. Prebid runs the sell-side AdCP code while AAO drives the protocol and adoption. AdCP is still mostly in pilot mode, not scaled revenue. AI creative testing is beating traditional DCO in performance. LLM ads could reshape search, retail media, and content economics. Chapters 00:00 Opening & Guest Introduction 01:29 Marketecture Live & Super Bowl Banter 03:58 Matt Egol Joins from CES 06:49 What Is AgenticAdvertising.org? 08:16 Certification & Trust 11:11 Why Another Organization? 13:43 Prebid Partnership Explained 16:08 Expanding Beyond Programmatic 18:23 Relationship with the IAB 22:30 Adoption Update: February 2026 24:08 Governance & Board Structure 26:16 The AI Super Bowl 33:47 ChatGPT Launches Ads 44:20 Amazon Content Marketplace Rumors 52:19 Closing & Sign-Off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bob Lord, President of Horizon Media, joins Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi to talk about why independent agencies can move faster, how Horizon OS is built around an open partner ecosystem, and how AI is changing day to day agency work. They also cover Blu ID, performance-based pricing, the LLM ad debate, and key takeaways from IAB ALM. Takeaways Indie agencies move faster because they don’t carry legacy tech and data debt. Horizon OS keeps the stack open so brands can swap partners as needed. Blu ID links Horizon’s identity to client first-party data for more precise planning. Horizon wants performance based pay so incentives match business results. AI delivers quick wins through reconciliation and workflow automation. The ads debate is really a trust play between Anthropic and OpenAI. Chapters 00:00 Travel, Super Bowl, and AI talk. 04:22 Bob Lord joins the show. 06:38 Why holdcos struggle with tech and data debt. 08:17 Horizon OS and client access to data. 10:39 Switching agencies and owning first party data. 11:40 What Blu ID is. 12:13 Open ecosystem and partner plug-ins. 14:19 From staffing to growth partnership. 15:45 Performance based agency economics. 16:59 Why AI fits open systems. 18:12 Agent Q, Gemini, and fewer hallucinations. 20:14 AI wins: reconciliation and pitch work. 21:30 Horizon and Havas partnership. 23:41 Viveki then vs now. 28:45 LLM ad war and Anthropic ads. 36:33 IAB ALM and publisher AI accountability. 40:02 Project Ados and ADCP friction. 45:24 Earnings: Google, YouTube, Uber Ads. 51:56 Closing thoughts on open ecosystems. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ari Paparo explains why outcomes have become the defining metric in digital advertising, how AI and platform consolidation are reshaping the buy and sell sides, and what the decline of the open web means for marketers, publishers, and ad tech moving forward. Takeaways Outcomes have always existed in digital advertising, but pressure on CMOs has made measurable results unavoidable. Closed loop platforms outperform the open web because scale, identity, and measurement live in one system. Experimentation and advanced modeling are replacing traditional attribution as cookies disappear. AI agents may reduce fragmentation by automating buying, negotiation, and optimization across publishers. Programmatic advertising is circling back to outcome driven models similar to early ad networks. Antitrust actions may reduce Google’s efficiency but will not eliminate its dominance in outcomes. Chapters 00:00 Outcomes become the central measure of marketing success as CMO accountability increases. 02:10 AppLovin shows how repeatable performance drives massive valuation. 04:08 Experimentation and AI modeling replace fragile attribution systems. 06:01 Why publishers struggle to compete with closed platforms on outcomes. 09:12 AI search and summaries dramatically reduce traffic to the open web. 12:09 Fragmentation creates opportunity in a multipolar content ecosystem. 14:14 Agentic buying hints at a future with less friction and more scale. 15:20 Programmatic advertising evolves back toward outcome focused systems. 20:31 Antitrust remedies may reshape Google’s stack without killing outcomes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rajeev Goel, CEO of PubMatic, joins Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi to discuss how agentic AI and AdCP are reshaping the media buying process, collapsing the ad tech value chain, and creating new opportunities for publishers and advertisers to compete with walled gardens. Takeaways Agentic AI can automate planning, buying, and optimization beyond today’s DSP workflows. PubMatic’s AgenticOS lets advertisers transact through AI agents using AdCP. AI efficiency may grow digital ad spend and shift more ROI budgets to the open internet. Seller agents and marketplaces could help publishers unlock demand without big sales teams. The open web will compete better with stronger identity, measurement, and a simpler supply chain. Chapter 00:00 Travel check and AI kickoff 01:05 Moltbot and why autonomous assistants matter 01:56 Rajeev Goel on agentic AI at PubMatic 07:00 RTB automates only the impression moment 08:37 RFPs, emails, spreadsheets — the manual reality 10:05 Agents scaling campaign management 15:15 Butler Till and Clubtails case study setup 18:37 PubMatic agent recommends inventory, audiences, and data 22:34 Agents compress the value chain, weaken DSP lock-in 45:05 OpenAI ads debate, CPM economics, answer engine ads Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Paul Knegten draws on his experience as a former Beeswax CMO and long-time ad tech marketer to explain what actually works in marketing as the industry heads into 2026. The conversation covers AI hype versus real value, why founder voice matters more than positioning decks, how buyers actually make decisions, and the difference between a marketing problem and a real business problem. Paul also breaks down where ad tech companies lose the plot when talking to brands and agencies, and why relevance beats buzz every time. Takeaways AI does not fix weak positioning and only works when it solves a real customer problem. Founder-led communication often outperforms polished brand messaging in ad tech. Buyers care more about results than transparency when performance is strong. LinkedIn and major industry events remain the two most effective channels to reach decision makers. Many companies think they have a marketing issue when they actually have a product-market fit problem. Chapters 00:09 Intro and guest welcome, Paul Knegten 01:04 Marketecture Live and Startup Showcase 04:05 Paul’s background in ad tech marketing 05:34 State of ad tech and the AI rush 06:39 Consolidation and “quietly winning” ad networks 08:44 Transparency vs performance for buyers 10:11 Founder-led marketing and being the face of the brand 13:13 Avoiding the ad tech echo chamber 15:26 Reaching buyers on LinkedIn and tentpole events 20:15 Brands and agencies vs ad tech priorities 22:06 AI hype and differentiation 24:05 “Marketing problem” vs “problem problem.” 28:39 OpenAI rolls out ads in the free tier 38:58 CTV News, EDO vs iSpot TV lawsuit 47:48 Gamera launch and open-web signals Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices