399 - The Klaviyo Segmentation Strategy Most Brands Have Never Thought About

Get this free resource: The Front Door Report - an audit of 360+ ecommerce brands' welcome flows → https://www.joyjoya.com/frontdoor When people talk about segmentation, they're almost always talking about who an email is going to. This segment gets this campaign, that segment gets that one. Nobody's really talking about who should not be getting it - and that's a big blind spot. Exclusion segments are exactly what they sound like: groups of people who are intentionally not receiving a specific email, either temporarily or as an ongoing rule running in the background of every campaign you send. And when I audit a Klaviyo account, they're almost never there. This isn't just about keeping things tidy. Every time you send to someone who shouldn't be getting that email, you're increasing the odds of a spam complaint or a low open rate. Inbox providers like Gmail are paying attention to that. Do enough of it and it starts affecting whether your emails land in the inbox at all - for everyone on your list, including the people who genuinely want to hear from you. The reason this gets overlooked is that it's invisible by design. When exclusion segments are working, you don't really notice them. But that's exactly why they matter. In this episode I break down what exclusion segments are, why skipping them is quietly hurting your list health, and exactly which groups are worth building exclusions around right now. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: What exclusion segments are and why they're almost always missing from Klaviyo accounts Why sending to the wrong people hurts deliverability for everyone - including your best subscribers Why wholesale contacts should almost never be getting your DTC marketing emails The flow recipient overlap problem and how exclusions prevent a subscriber from getting two emails at once Why unengaged subscribers and sunset flow graduates need to be excluded from regular campaigns How to handle bounces and spam complainers with exclusions What role-based email addresses are and why they don't belong on your active list How to set up exclusions mechanically inside Klaviyo - it's simpler than most people think Exclusion segments are unglamorous, invisible, and one of the most important things you can do for your list health. Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

Get this free resource: The Front Door Report - an audit of 360+ ecommerce brands' welcome flows → https://www.joyjoya.com/frontdoor Someone at a pool party once asked me, dead serious, if people even look at email anymore. I get some version of this question a lot, so I wanted to actually answer it with real numbers instead of just my gut reaction. Turns out the assumption isn't even close to true. Somewhere around 93 to 99% of email users check their inbox every single day, there are more than 4.5 billion email users worldwide (more than any single social platform), and email marketing consistently returns somewhere between $36 and $42 for every dollar spent. For my own clients doing it well, email drives around 40% of their ecommerce revenue. I also dig into what I think is actually behind that pool party comment: the assumption that Gen Z has abandoned email for texting and social. The data doesn't back that up either - they're just doing it differently. And the part I think matters most: why email keeps winning even as everyone assumes it's dying. It comes down to two things - you own your email list outright, unlike a social following that can vanish with an algorithm change, and for the person receiving it, email is opt-in and still one of the few corners of the internet you actually control. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: The real numbers behind how often people check email, and how many people use it worldwide Why email marketing's ROI is hard to match with any other channel Whether Gen Z has actually abandoned email (spoiler: no) and how they use it differently The two real reasons email keeps outperforming assumptions - one about who owns the channel, one about the actual user experience Why an opt-in, algorithm-free inbox is genuinely rare online right now Get this free resource: The Front Door Report - an audit of 360+ ecommerce brands' welcome flows → https://www.joyjoya.com/frontdoor Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

Get the FREE "Front Door" Report: https://joyjoya.com/frontdoor Jodie Minto started her fashion brand at weekend market stalls with a glass fishbowl, handwritten slips of paper, and a monthly caftan giveaway. By the time she launched her website, she already had hundreds of email subscribers waiting. On day one, she made sales. She scaled that brand to $1 million a year in revenue over ten years, then sold it - and has spent the years since coaching hundreds of ecommerce founders across all different product categories. She's seen what works, what doesn't, and the nuances that make one tactic land brilliantly for one brand and completely miss for another. What I really wanted to dig into with her was the full picture: how lead gen actually works, how email and paid ads need to work together, what product pages are getting wrong, and something that genuinely surprised me - the cultural differences in how SMS and WhatsApp are used for marketing around the world. Her line that stuck with me most: the fortune is in the follow up. You can get someone to sign up, but if you never actually send them anything, none of the work getting them there mattered at all. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: How Jodie built her first email list with a fishbowl and handwritten slips - and why it worked The lead gen formats she tested over ten years: giveaways, spin the wheel, discount codes, and what actually converted best Why a travel voucher giveaway brought in all the wrong subscribers - and what that teaches you about list quality The most common email mistake she sees when auditing a new client's account How paid ads and email need to work together - and why relying on ads alone leaves money on the table The Klaviyo and Meta integration that lets you retarget your email subscribers with ads What product pages are almost always missing - and why it's quietly killing conversions The marketing mix she recommends for most ecommerce brands and why all three channels have to show up How SMS marketing is perceived very differently in Australia vs. the US - and what WhatsApp has to do with it The fortune is in the follow up. Getting someone to sign up is only half the job. Connect with Jodie: Website: https://jodieminto.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamjodieminto/ Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

Get the FREE "Front Door" Report: https://joyjoya.com/frontdoor I found a client's popup literally firing on top of another popup, one second apart, both on the screen at the same time. Nobody set it up that way intentionally. It's just what happens when you build one popup, then another, then another - and nobody ever goes back to check how they're all interacting. Exit intent is actually a genuinely useful tool when it's set up correctly. The idea is simple: instead of interrupting someone the moment they land on your site, you catch them at the very last moment - right before they leave without converting. A well-configured exit intent popup can recover somewhere between 10 and 20% of visitors who were about to leave anyway. But exit intent done wrong doesn't just fail to convert. It actively makes the experience worse. And the real danger isn't the exit intent popup itself - it's not knowing what you have running, when it fires, and how it's interacting with everything else on your site. In this episode I break down what exit intent actually is, what makes it work, and the popup stack problem that's more common than most brands realize. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: What exit intent is and how it works differently on desktop vs mobile Why exit intent popups actually tend to convert better on mobile than desktop The two ways to use exit intent - as your only popup or layered alongside your main one Why your exit intent offer needs to be different from your main popup offer What to ask for on an exit intent form - and what to save for later Why design, targeting, and copy all matter more than most brands think Which pages exit intent makes sense on - and where it's counterproductive The real danger of a popup stack nobody's audited in months How to properly inventory your popups and test the actual new user experience on your own site Exit intent is a good tool. But it's not a set-it-and-forget-it one - especially when you're layering it with other popups. Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

Get the FREE "Front Door" Report: https://joyjoya.com/frontdoor Ever gotten a marketing text super early in the morning or way too late at night and thought - that's kind of rude? Turns out there are actually laws about that. And if you're texting your customers without knowing what quiet hours are, you could be violating regulations without realizing it. In the U.S., you're legally not allowed to send marketing texts before 8 a.m. or after 9 p.m. But it goes further than that. Some states are stricter - Florida cuts it off at 8 p.m. And if you text internationally, the rules get more complex. France blocks sending on Sundays and public holidays entirely, enforced at the carrier level, meaning the message just won't arrive. This isn't just about being a polite brand. Violations here aren't hypothetical. I've spoken to ecommerce founders - not my own clients, thankfully - who've received lawsuits over quiet hours violations. And in every single case, it wasn't intentional. It was a rogue automation, an edge case nobody caught, or a setting nobody thought to check. The good news is platforms like Klaviyo have built-in safeguards to help. The important thing is knowing what those safeguards actually do - and where they stop covering you. In this episode I walk through exactly what quiet hours are, which rules apply where, how Klaviyo handles this automatically, and why knowing your settings matters even when the platform is doing most of the work. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: What quiet hours actually are and why SMS is treated differently than email under the law The U.S. federal rule - and the states with stricter requirements you may not know about How international quiet hours work and why France is a particularly important example Why state-level frequency caps matter too - and which states limit you to three promotional texts per day How Klaviyo's built-in quiet hours settings work and why the defaults are more conservative than the law requires The new state-aware safeguards Klaviyo added and what they actually protect you from Why automatic safeguards aren't foolproof - and the scenarios where they can miss What SMS litigators are and why Klaviyo's setting to block them exists Why setting it and forgetting it is exactly how brands end up in trouble SMS can be one of the highest-performing channels you have. It just needs to be treated with the seriousness it deserves. Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

Get the FREE "Front Door" Report: https://joyjoya.com/frontdoor Right now, roughly a third of your subscribers are opening your emails in dark mode. On some lists it's closer to 40%. And depending on how your emails were built, that could mean your logo is invisible, your text is unreadable, or your email just looks like something went terribly wrong. The worst part is you'd never know - because if you're testing in light mode on desktop, everything looks fine. It's only when you flip to dark mode that you see what a chunk of your audience is actually looking at every time you hit send. Dark mode isn't an edge case anymore. It was closer to a quarter of opens a year or two ago. Now it's a third and climbing. On Android, the vast majority of users have it turned on. And when someone opens a broken-looking email in dark mode, they're not going to sit there figuring out why it looks wrong - they're going to leave and delete. The good news is you can design around almost all of this. It just requires knowing what to look for, testing the right things, and making a few specific adjustments that make a real difference. In this episode I walk through exactly what dark mode does to your emails, which elements are most at risk, and how to test and fix the issues before they cost you opens and conversions. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: What dark mode actually is and why such a large portion of your subscribers are using it The three things an email client can do to your email in dark mode - and why you don't get to choose which one Why a logo on a transparent background can become completely invisible in dark mode How light gray text that looks subtle in your email builder can become totally unreadable on a dark background Which types of emails are most at risk - and why abandoned cart and dynamic content emails need special attention The design choices that hold up best across different email clients' dark mode logic Why Gmail has its own dark mode rules and needs to be tested separately every time What a proper dark mode testing process actually looks like - including transactional emails Why building a beautiful email that only works in light mode is designing for failure If you've never tested your emails in dark mode, there's a good chance you've been sending broken-looking emails to a huge chunk of your list - and just never knowing it. Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

Cody Cessna almost didn't do email marketing at all. He told me straight up he didn't want to be the brand that annoys people and gets unsubscribed. And honestly, that instinct made our job harder - because we had to build in more restraint and intention than we might have with another brand. But he came around, and it's actually paying off. Cody is the founder of COE, a brand built for the active and working man who needs eyewear that can handle the job site without looking terrible doing it. He spent years as a lineman touching 16,000 volts every day, wearing safety glasses that were ugly and sunglasses that weren't actually rated for protection. So he built what didn't exist. No design background, no marketing background - he learned Shopify from YouTube videos. What I really wanted to dig into with him was the marketing side: how a founder-first approach to ads, real world lifestyle photography, and a very intentional email strategy have all worked together to build a brand that customers come back to - fast. COE's average repurchase timeline is around 55 days, which is well ahead of the ecommerce average. This one is worth listening to whether you're skeptical about email like Cody was, or just want to hear how a working-class founder with no marketing background figured it out. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: How Cody built COE from a real problem he lived every day on the job - and why that credibility still gives him an edge over bigger competitors Why he almost didn't do email marketing - and what changed his mind How he uses real world, on-the-job photography instead of polished studio shoots - and why it converts better The fake podcast ad strategy that's been one of their best performing formats Why founder storytelling has been COE's most consistent marketing asset from day one How a 55-day repurchase cycle shapes their entire email flow strategy The cross-sell and win back approach that keeps customers coming back for backup pairs, new colorways, and replacement lenses What seven years of building an ecommerce brand actually taught him that he wishes he'd known sooner When you love what you do, work doesn't feel like work. That's the energy of this whole conversation. Connect with COE: Website: https://coewear.com Instagram: @coeyewear Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

📥 Download the FREE Front Door Study: https://joyjoya.com/frontdoor I subscribed to 362 real ecommerce brands - jewelry, fashion, beauty, home, wellness, accessories - using fresh email addresses and phone numbers I'd never used before. I just wanted to know what actually happens after you hand over your contact information. Not what a Klaviyo dashboard says is happening. What actually shows up in the inbox. Nearly half of them never sent a welcome email at all. That means 158 brands took someone's email address, made them a promise - usually a discount or incentive - and then went completely silent. And SMS had the same problem, maybe worse. 53 brands never sent the text they promised either, and giving up a phone number is a bigger ask than an email. Going silent after that isn't just a missed conversion. It's probably the last time that person bothers engaging with you. The part that got me wasn't the deliverability issues or the mismatched offers or the spam folder problems - though all of those showed up too. It was that nobody in this study is losing because they lack a sophisticated segmentation strategy. They're losing because the very first message, the most important one they'll ever send, just isn't sending. Or isn't landing. Or isn't matching what they promised. And that's actually good news. Because this isn't complicated or expensive to fix. In this episode I walk through what I found across all 362 brands, why the welcome window is the most critical moment in your entire email program, and the one thing you can do today to find out exactly where you stand. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: Why nearly half of the 362 brands I subscribed to never sent a welcome email - and what that's actually costing them Why SMS silence after a signup is an even bigger offense than email silence The brands that didn't even have a real way to sign up - and what that signals to potential customers What happens when your welcome offer doesn't match what you promised on the popup Why deliverability problems are likely worse than most brands realize - and what I could see just from the consumer side Why the basics, not advanced strategy, are what's actually breaking most email programs The one simple thing you can do right now to find out exactly what your new subscribers are experiencing You genuinely can't fix this until you've experienced it as your own customer. Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

Every SMS marketing platform is pushing something called RCS right now, telling you it's the future of texting your customers. And the upgrade is real - but the pitch is leaving out a few things worth knowing before you make any decisions. RCS, which stands for Rich Communication Services, isn't actually new technology. It was standardized back in 2007. The reason everyone is suddenly talking about it in 2026 is that Apple only added support for it in iOS 18, which came out in fall 2024. Once iPhone users were covered, rich messaging across both major platforms became possible for the first time - and that's what's driving all the noise. The difference between SMS and RCS is genuinely significant. Instead of a plain text from a string of random numbers, your customers see your actual brand name, logo, and a verified badge. Instead of compressed, blurry product images, they see high-res photos. Instead of a link, they get tappable buttons - Shop Now, Track Your Order - right inside the message thread. It's a real upgrade in how branded and trustworthy your texts look and feel. But there's an approval process, a waitlist with no guaranteed timeline, a country availability limitation, and a few things about how to measure performance that most platforms aren't mentioning. And none of it matters if your SMS foundation isn't solid first. In this episode I break down what RCS actually is, what it takes to get set up, what it genuinely does better than SMS, and my honest take on whether it's worth pursuing right now. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: Why RCS isn't new - and what actually changed to make everyone talk about it now What the difference between an SMS and an RCS message actually looks and feels like as a consumer What the approval process involves and why the timeline is unpredictable Why RCS has an automatic SMS fallback - and why that matters for your reach Which 10 countries RCS is currently available in Why RCS delivery reporting is actually more reliable than SMS - and what that means for your data The trust and anti-phishing benefits that come with being a verified RCS sender Why click rate isn't the right metric to compare RCS and SMS performance How to think about RCS as a layer on top of SMS - not a replacement for it This isn't hype you should ignore. But it's not an emergency switch either. Get your fundamentals right first - and then RCS can be a genuinely good next layer. Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com

390Julie Cole said something in our conversation that I haven't stopped thinking about. Social media, content, followers - all of it can disappear tomorrow. The only thing she actually owns is her email list. Julie is the co-founder of Mabel's Labels, the brand behind those indestructible labels you've seen on kids' water bottles and lunchboxes - the ones that survive the dishwasher, the microwave, and everything in between. She started the company 23 years ago in her sister's basement with three co-founders, none of them technical, trading a foosball table for their first website. It's since grown into a multi-million dollar brand selling worldwide. What I really wanted to dig into with her was how she thinks about email after two decades of building it. She segments by life stage - kids growing into teenagers, and now labels for aging parents. She guards her list fiercely, turning down requests to use it even when it costs her a speaking opportunity. And she treats it like the most valuable asset the company owns, because it is. This conversation is full of the kind of perspective you only get from someone who's actually been doing this for 23 years. ✨ In this episode, you'll learn: How Mabel's Labels got its first big marketing break before social media even existed - and what it taught them about the power of the inbox Why Julie guards her email list so carefully she'll turn down opportunities to protect it How segmenting by life stage has kept customers coming back for over two decades The repeat customer flywheel that turns back-to-school buyers into lifelong label customers - and now, senior label customers too How Julie thinks about the relationship between social media and email - and why one will always take priority Why UGC and founder visibility have become core to how Mabel's Labels builds trust in an era where everyone's questioning what's real The culture of innovation Julie has built internally - and why giving teams room to experiment is good for the bottom line What 23 years in ecommerce actually teaches you about staying relevant when everything keeps changing The only thing you really own is your email list. Everything else can disappear tomorrow. Connect with Julie: Mabel's Labels: https://mabelslabels.com More on Julie: https://mabelslabels.com/juliecole Instagram: @juliecoleinc Work with Joy Joya: https://joyjoya.com