What is worth wanting? Bonnie Wan on Trauma, Transformation, and Courage

This week, I talk with Tina Tower, founder of Her Empire Builder, a membership community helping women start and scale online course businesses. Tina’s journey to success has been anything but straightforward. She launched a tutoring center at 20, built a franchise that nearly broke her, and sold it in a deal that taught her some tough lessons about business and burnout.  We dive into what she learned from scaling too fast, how to avoid the potential pitfalls of selling a company, and how she transitioned from a high-stress business to running a wildly profitable $2 million-a-year company—with less stress and more joy than ever before. If you’ve ever wrestled with balancing wealth, meaning, and a lifestyle you truly love, this conversation is for you. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:52) - How a toy bear became a symbol of Tina's entrepreneurial journey (04:29) - Tina's chaotic childhood and leaving home at 14 (06:58) - Discovering Tony Robbins and rewriting her story (13:00) - Tina's mindset shift from survival to entrepreneurship (16:05) - “If you can dream it, you can achieve it”—or can you?  (19:00) - Hustling to stay afloat (22:19) - Hitting rock bottom and facing failure (31:00) - Scaling too fast—when growth becomes a trap (36:00) - When success feels like a burden (39:43) - Selling the business—a deal that was too good to be true (46:10) - Running away to find herself again (52:05) - Accidentally starting a seven-figure business (01:01:00) - What it’s like running a $2M/year business without burning out (01:04:20) - Letting go of overworking (01:09:00) - Choosing success without sacrifice (01:13:00) - When ambition clashes with contentment (01:18:00) - Realizing success doesn't mean burnout (01:23:45) - Barrett's approach to coaching (01:34:36) - What makes Tina world-class? (01:34:54) - Tina's most beautiful future (01:35:47) - Who Tina is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I’m bringing back one of our most popular episodes—my conversation with neuroscientist, writer, and Ness Labs founder Anne-Laure Le Cunff. When we first spoke in 2024, she was deep in her PhD, balancing academic rigor with writing for a broad audience, all while sharing her journey in public. Now, she’s releasing her new book, Tiny Experiments, which explores how small, intentional experiments can unlock personal growth and creativity. Anne-Laure’s approach to navigating uncertainty, following curiosity, and designing an intentional life is something I deeply align with. And I wanted to revisit this conversation because it’s packed with insights on how world-class creators forge their own paths—without a roadmap. Whether you’re familiar with Anne-Laure’s work or hearing from her for the first time, this episode is a must-listen. Let’s get to it! In this episode: [00:00] - Intro [01:59] - Liminal moments and navigating life's crossroads [05:41] - Lessons from neuroscience on embracing the in-between [10:44] - The power of intuition in decision making [30:07] - Cultural roots and identity [40:03] - Learning from failure [46:38] - Ness Labs [48:34] - The journey of learning and growth [49:22] - The power of authenticity and community [50:07] - Embracing personal evolution [51:35] - The impact of public learning and mistakes [53:00] - Exploring inner growth through psychedelics [54:47] - Ayahuasca experiences [57:42] - The significance of ancestral pain and healing [01:09:41] - Creative process and the virtue of writing in public [01:15:44] - Navigating between academic research and public engagement [01:19:30] - The personal content diet and the anti-library concept [01:27:53] - Envisioning the future and reflecting on personal growth Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Bonnie Wan, a trailblazing strategist who spent 30 years in advertising, eventually becoming a partner and Head of Brand Strategy at Goodby Silverstein & Partners. She earned Ad Age’s Chief Strategy Officer of the Year award, but perhaps her most impactful work is The Life Brief—a tool she developed to transform her own life, which became the foundation of her book. We explore Bonnie’s remarkable journey—from immigrating from Taiwan and overcoming bullying and abuse to rising to the top of her field. We also dive into the power of brand storytelling as a force for good, including a national campaign she led to prevent child pornography online. Finally, we discuss Bonnie’s current career transition and what it means to embrace change as a lifelong practice. If you’ve ever questioned your path or felt trapped by your success, Bonnie’s story will challenge and inspire you. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (04:01) - Bonnie discovers her dark sense of humor (07:34) - Wanting to belong (14:23) - Confronting difficult childhood memories as an adult (20:03) - The power of storytelling and writing (24:31) - Why is practice so important? (28:33) - "I am committed to" vs "I am a commitment to" (33:53) - Somatic sensory experience (39:36) - What is worth wanting? (47:47) - Where lasting change comes from (53:31) - How a moment of vulnerability redefined Bonnie's leadership (01:04:35) - Pay gaps and gender bias  (01:12:22) - How Bonnie became a strategist (01:16:58) - The most meaningful ad campaign that Bonnie has worked on  (01:23:55) - That moment Bonnie found out she was being made a partner (01:29:05) - How Bonnie knew it was time to move on (01:30:17) - The shift from career to vocation (01:34:24) - Bonnie's most beautiful future (01:35:53) - Who Bonnie is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I sit down with someone who’s had an enormous impact on my life—my mom, Ann Brooks. She’s built an exceptional career spanning nearly 40 years in sales, leadership, and entrepreneurship, working for Xerox, Haworth, and Allstate before becoming a financial advisor. As the primary breadwinner for our family, she’s learned what it takes to manage high-performing teams, create scalable systems, and lead with integrity. Beyond business, this conversation is personal. My mom taught me some of the most valuable lessons I use every day—how to build teams, how to sell in a way that feels good for everyone, and how to lead with character. If you’ve ever wondered where my mindset on work and leadership comes from, this episode is a window into that foundation. Whether you call her Ann or Mom, I think you’ll learn something from her story. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (03:29) - How Ann became a Georgia Bulldogs fan (08:49) - Growing up in Georgia (10:26) - Family dynamics and sports (15:47) - Cultural heritage and identity (22:25) - On working very early in life (23:49) - Key learnings from Ann's early career (25:11) - The value of hard work early in life (28:46) - How Ann ended up working at Xerox (32:46) - Cultural identity as an immigrant  (41:30) - The hard truth about sales (43:13) - How Ann and her husband met and the importance of their partnership (46:52) - The transition to Hayworth (48:47) - Managing teams and building relationships (52:58) - Balancing family and career (57:44) - Navigating a male-dominated industry (01:03:41) - Ann's philosophy on bringing a team together  (01:08:09) - On standards of excellence (01:16:05) - Evaluating the real cost of opportunities (01:19:48) - Embracing entrepreneurship (01:21:56) - The first day at the new agency  (01:24:09) - How Ann changed the trajectory of her business (01:27:47) - Selling the business (01:35:55) - Working on a business vs working in the business (01:38:46) - What drew Ann to the financial industry (01:42:58) - Where excellence and joy meet (01:44:55) - Ann's beautiful future (01:46:28) - Who Ann is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Justin Moore—founder and CEO of Creator Wizard, longtime YouTuber, and entrepreneur who’s spent more than 15 years navigating the creator economy. But this conversation isn’t just about business. It’s about the tension between entrepreneurship and family life, the ups and downs of building something meaningful, and the resilience required to start over after failure. Justin shares how he and his wife, April, built a thriving business on YouTube, only to face a major setback when his agency collapsed during the pandemic. We talk about the lessons he’s learned, how he’s doing things differently now, and why his ultimate goal has always been to support his family. This is a deeply human story of commitment, reinvention, and making work matter. I think you’re going to find a lot to relate to in this one. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (03:22) - How Justin ended up in a metal band (06:18) - Music as an escape (12:47) - Starting a YouTube channel (19:49) - Why make videos? (25:22) - Transition to full-time creators  (32:53) - Justin's first time dealing with online negativity (35:43) - How Justin and his wife worked through the transition of careers and (roles) - in their marriage (37:43) - Gender roles and family dynamics (41:57) - Dealing with judgmental people (44:48) - Life as a content creator (46:20) - The importance of family time (52:06) - Reflecting on parenting choices (56:21) - Adapting to new environments (01:03:57) - How Justin built a business from scratch (01:10:38) - The moment Justin decided to shut down his business (01:15:55) - The power of asking for help (01:27:17) - How Justin built the business he's always wanted (01:32:04) - Justin's beautiful future (01:33:17) - Who Justin is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Kieran Snyder, the co-founder and former CEO of Textio, a groundbreaking company at the forefront of the AI revolution. Kieran’s journey is one of resilience, leadership, and innovation. We discuss how she transitioned from academia to leading a tech startup, raising more than $40 million in funding, and building equitable, high-performing teams along the way. Kieran opens up about the tough decision to step down as CEO after experiencing burnout and shares her path to recovery and rediscovery. We dive into her passion for building up young female leaders, from coaching girls’ basketball to supporting women in tech, and her talent for transforming surprising data into compelling stories through her newsletter, Nerd Processor. Whether you’re a leader, entrepreneur, or just curious about AI’s impact on the workplace, I hope this conversation will inspire and offer some practical insights as well. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:55) - Kieran's 8th grade science project (05:07) - How parental influence shaped Kieran's career path (08:29) - Academic journey in linguistics (17:19) - Kieran's transition to tech (23:47) - Founding Textio (30:11) - Building a company with your spouse (36:18) - Navigating product market fit (46:46) - Burnout and stepping down as CEO (56:35) - Leadership and knowing when to walk away  (01:01:23) - Detaching identity from career outcomes (01:05:33) - How Kieran evaluates her performance as a CEO (01:08:39) - The value of a board of advisors (01:11:45) - Kieran's advice for someone recruiting a mentor, advisor or board member (01:15:25) - Starting Nerd Processor and embracing creativity (01:19:14) - How Kieran chooses what to write about (01:23:20) - How to create substantial and insightful content (01:30:11) - What Kieran has learned about hiring execs (01:35:13) - Coaching youth basketball and personal fulfillment (01:41:03) - Kieran's beautiful future (01:42:59) - Who Kieran is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Pat Flynn, a legend in the creator economy and founder of Smart Passive Income. Pat’s journey began in 2008 when he was laid off as an architect during the recession. Since then, he’s built an online empire by experimenting with niche projects and side hustles, teaching modern, effective principles to entrepreneurs worldwide. We dive deep into his journey—from building Smart Passive Income to leading with empathy and authenticity. Pat shares how he turned his love of Pokémon cards into a million-subscriber YouTube channel, Deep Pocket Monster, and how hobbies and family keep him grounded and inspired. This conversation is personal, insightful, and packed with actionable lessons for entrepreneurs, creators, and anyone wanting to build a meaningful career while staying true to your values. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:58) - Kayak bass fishing tournaments? (10:50) - The importance of getting outside regularly (14:38) - The hardest part of Pat's lifestyle change (21:38) - Parenting and dealing with negativity online (38:08) - How Pat built his career around family (41:26) - Being present with family (43:54) - Involving family in business (46:18) - How Pat created open communication with his children (49:24) - Standing out and embracing uniqueness (55:33) - Pat on losing his first architecture job (59:13) - The journey to online business (01:02:56) - Launching the first online product (01:08:29) - Learning from mistakes and moving forward (01:10:00) - Embracing just-in-time learning (01:12:39) - Overcoming the inner conflict of perfectionism (01:16:18) - The importance of mentorship (01:17:23) - Hiring a Fortnite coach (01:18:13) - Triathlon Training with Jeff McMahon (01:18:58) - The art of asking for help (01:21:47) - Embracing consistency and iteration (01:22:29) - Mastering storytelling and content creation (01:30:33) - Building relationships with an audience (01:37:49) - Finding success by making content community-driven (01:41:08) - Teaching by example vs telling people what they should do (01:45:23) - Pat's beautiful future (01:46:46) - Who Pat is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Ankur Nagpal, founder of Teachable, Carry, and Vibe Capital. Ankur’s journey is nothing short of inspiring. From immigrating to the U.S. for college to founding a company that grew exponentially and sold for a life-changing $250 million, Ankur has built a remarkable career. We explore how he went from creating Facebook apps in college to funding his own education at Berkeley, starting and scaling Teachable in New York, and what he learned about himself after the sale. Ankur shares how success has allowed him to focus on what truly matters—family, meaningful relationships, and purpose-driven work. Now with Carry, he’s on a mission to bring elite investment and tax strategies to everyday business owners. This is a story of resilience, authenticity, and leadership. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:51) - What makes cricket a beautiful sport? (06:40) - Growing up in Oman and moving to the US (16:32) - Navigating the US visa system (22:09) - What Ankur learned from his initial success building Facebook apps (32:01) - Making a million dollars and forgetting to pay taxes (33:51) - Finding home in New York (38:07) - How New York has shaped Ankur professionally and personally (43:10) - Teachable and the evolution of the creator economy (49:08) - Challenges of scaling a startup (57:45) - What will change for content creators over the next 10 years? (01:04:35) - Deciding to sell Teachable (01:09:22) - Life-changing realizations (01:12:31) - Ankur's first big purchase after selling the company (01:14:13) - Walking away from CEO (01:16:42) - Investing and family priorities (01:19:36) - What Ankur learned as an investor that he didn't know as a founder (01:24:01) - Traveling self-discovery (01:27:19) - Building a new company (01:38:29) - Ankur's beautiful future (01:40:19) - Who Ankur is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

Since the very first episode, Good Work has been about exploring why our work matters and how it helps us become the people and leaders we’re meant to be. Normally, I interview world-class guests, diving deep into their unique stories and insights. But today, I’m sharing my own experiences, lessons, and reflections. I’ve gathered questions from you, my listeners, as well as past guests, covering a wide range of topics: business advice, lessons learned from podcasting, life philosophy, and how I approach my own work. This episode is a chance to connect on a different level as I reflect on the year and answer your questions. I hope it brings value and inspiration as we wrap up the year together. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:44) - What's the number one process business owners need to have to stay happy and engaged?  (05:14) - What are the biggest tactical challenges that $1m+ creator/founders struggle with? (14:05) - What are the common threads in the life ambitions or mentality of the people you've had on the podcast? (27:25) - How have you changed, matured, or grown as a result of something you've learned from a guest on Good Work? (31:22) - What have you learned about podcasting that you didn't know or didn't expect when you started? (39:14) - Has podcasting changed anything about your views on the impact and importance of various forms of media in society at large? (44:16) - Of all the people you talked to, for whom did your respect increase the most after all the research and conversation, and why? (47:44) - What's up with the podcast artwork? And is there any meaning behind the studio design? (56:50) - What is your definition of "enough"? (01:04:04) - What are some challenges you're proud of solving, and how did you solve them?  (01:13:21) - Over the last 10 years, what's become more important to you, and what's become less important? Does his weekly calendar match the answer? (01:16:14) - What are you avoiding just because it will take longer than you'd like? (01:17:09) - What was most surprising about 2024, and how are you feeling about 2025? (01:19:07) - is there anything you've learned in your life that you wish you didn't know? (01:22:23) - What six-month period of your life was the most energizing and fun, and what can you learn from the answer? (01:32:26) - How do you manage your day and your week? (01:38:27) - What would young Barrett think of the work you're doing today? (01:44:43) - If you were the teacher for your kids and a few other local kids, what's one class or curriculum you'd love to teach them and why? (01:48:08) - Why are garbage trucks stinky? And what makes buses awesome? (01:49:56) - Final thoughts Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Ruthie Ackerman—a talented author, journalist, and writing teacher who has turned her own journey into a blueprint for helping others find their voice. Ruthie’s work has appeared in The New York Times, Modern Love, and many other renowned outlets, but her true passion lies in empowering others to discover and write their own stories. Through her workshops, one-on-one coaching, and book incubators, Ruthie helps writers connect with their experiences, heal from the past, and find deeper meaning in their lives. We explore Ruthie’s journey—from traveling the world in her 20s, to pivoting into journalism, to teaching creative nonfiction and memoir to students around the globe. We also dive into the deeply personal moments that shaped her path, including her journey to motherhood. Ruthie’s insights on storytelling, healing, and personal growth are inspiring, and I hope our conversation encourages you to reflect on your own story and its potential to create meaning and connection. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:48) - How Ruthie ended up in Malawi (10:31) - The path to journalism (13:19) - Brooklyn dreams (18:38) - Reporting from Liberia and Lebanon (28:18) - The Forbes experience (32:05) - Starting Write Your Life (36:12) - How Ruthie teaches writing (47:51) - The importance of memoir (53:25) - Balancing personal and professional life (01:03:55) - The journey to motherhood (01:09:28) - Dealing with changing desires  (01:16:14) - Understanding self-silencing and emotional repression (01:24:02) - The reality of fertility treatments (01:28:24) - Dating after divorce (01:33:17) - Finding love and facing heartbreak (01:44:19) - Meeting Rob (01:48:37) - Reflections on the journey and personal growth (01:52:06) - Ruthie's most beautiful future (01:55:09) - Who Ruthie is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.