The Case for Splitting Account Management & Project Management, with Brett Harned

Welcome to episode 141. I'm chatting to Brett Harned, a consultant, coach, and author with 20+ years of experience leading digital and creative teams. He helps organisations solve people, process, and culture challenges with a strategic, human-centred approach. A longtime voice in the PM community, Brett founded the Digital PM Summit, wrote Project Management for Humans, and shares practical insights at BrettHarned.com. If you've ever wondered whether account management and project management should be separate roles in your agency, or maybe how AI might be reshaping both of these roles, then this episode is going to be packed with insights for you. We talk about: • what makes a successful hybrid AM-PM and why it's so hard to find one • the structure and support needed to make hybrid roles work • how to start separating AM and PM roles without blowing up your team or your client relationships • what agencies need to do now to adapt to AI • the project-based future of our industry • and why focusing on people not just process or tools is the secret to great project delivery. If you are currently navigating the complexities of the AM/PM roles in your agency, or you're thinking about making the switch, then why not come and join Brett and I, and David C Baker, for the annual AM and PM seminar in Atlanta on 23rd & 24th September 2025. And, if you want to stay ahead on topics like this and anything to do with client relationship management, agency growth, and the ever-evolving role of AI, then make sure you're signed up to my newsletter, in which I share practical tips, new podcast episodes, updates and mini trainings. Visit my website to subscribe and there you’ll also find my AI-readiness quiz. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

Welcome to episode 140, with Laura Smales, Client Services Director at Creative search marketing agency, Rise At Seven. This episode is going to be particularly interesting if you are a CSD in an agency and curious how another one operates. Here’s what we covered in this episode: How Rise at Seven differentiates themselves from other agencies Why Laura and her client service team prioritise solving the client’s biggest business challenge and how her team works with their internal craft and strategy team Laura also shares how the agency won over global clients and have extended their global footprint beyond the UK market to Europe and the US A walk through their proprietary AI-driven methodologies and tools they use to help get clients the demand or discoverability they want Laura’s practical tips for what makes a superb account manager in this AI-driven world and how to build trust and relationship stickiness with your clients Do reach out to her on LinkedIn, if you’re keen to learn more about how Rise At Seven is shaping global agency-client partnerships. And if you're curious about how AI can support account managers not only in retaining clients but also in growing global accounts – don’t miss my upcoming live webinar on 10th July 2025. You can register here: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/HqfuUMsbSDu_qKpnhZhlEg

Welcome to episode 139. My guest is Blair Enns - a globally recognised author, speaker and the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training company that has transformed how creative professionals position and sell their expertise Blair is the author of three books; o The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, a rallying cry for creative agencies to stop giving away their thinking for free. o Pricing Creativity, a guide to pricing your work based on value, not hours. o And now, his latest book - The Four Conversations a model for selling expertise If you’ve ever felt stuck in the sales process, unsure how to talk about money, or like you’re chasing clients instead of leading them - this episode is for you. You can connect with Blair Enns here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/ Website: http://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ Books: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Blair-Enns/s?rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_27%3ABlair%2BEnns

Welcome to episode 138. If you’re managing client relationships - or leading others who do - this episode is packed with practical advice. I’m joined by David C. Baker, widely regarded as "the expert's expert" in the marketing agency world. David has advised over 1,000 entrepreneurial experts through his consulting firm, Punctuation, which he founded back in 1994. He's the author of 7 books, including the influential "The Business of Expertise" and "Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors," and his latest book “Selling your professional services firm”. His insights have been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and numerous other publications. As the co-host of the popular "2Bobs" podcast, David regularly shares his expertise on agency management. With decades of experience working with marketing services firms, David brings unparalleled insights into the nuanced relationship between account management and project management - which makes him the perfect guest as we prepare for the third annual Account and Project Management event in Atlanta in September 2025. Here’s just a handful of the things we covered: • Why growing the account is the primary role of an account manager - and why order-taking isn’t enough (particularly now) • The healthy tension that needs to exist between AMs and PMs - and what happens when one person does both • Why strong account managers read the room - not just run the meeting • How to lead clients without being pushy - and why honesty is your best sales strategy • Practical tips for handovers, managing workload, and setting account managers up for success • And why account managers can - and should - lead the AI conversation within the agency David also shares thoughts on leadership, compensation, and the future of AM in an AI-driven world. If this conversation sparked ideas for how you can grow your client relationships, lead more confidently, and future-proof your role - then imagine what could happen if you gave yourself two days completely focused on it. Join us in Atlanta this 23rd and 24th of September for the AM/PM Conference - the only event created specifically for agency account and project managers. This isn’t just another conference. It’s where you’ll: • Surround yourself with people who get it - fellow AMs and PMs facing the same pressures and expectations you are • Learn practical strategies to retain and grow client accounts, manage tricky situations, and improve delivery - without burning out • Discover exactly how other agencies are using AI to work smarter, automate the boring stuff, and deliver faster, better outcomes • Leave with fresh tools, frameworks, and real-world examples you can put into practice the very next day I’ll be there, David C. Baker will be there, and we’re also joined by Brett Harned - founder of the Digital PM Summit and author of Project Management for Humans. If you’re serious about growing your career and elevating your role - this is where it happens. Visit https://www.punctuation.com for all the details and to grab your spot.

Welcome to episode 127. Thank you for listening in 2024. Looking back at this year, I’ve been reflecting on the superb guests I’ve had on the show. I thought I’d select a handful of soundbites from this year’s podcast episodes to share with you. This isn’t a comprehensive list - there have been so many standout moments - but these clips include tips, advice, or insights that stayed with me. I’ve shared 10 soundbites that I hope you find as useful or insightful as I did. Stick around until the end to hear a clip from one of the most popular episodes and one that I received the most positive feedback from listeners! You can also read more about each of these guests by visiting this episode's page on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/top-10-tips-insights-from-the-podcast-in-2024-with-jenny-plant These episodes are mentioned: 1. Episode 125: Dan Pfister, "How to Win Back Clients for Exceptional ROI" 2. Episode 120 & 121: Carey Evans & Simon Rhind-Tutt, “What Your Client Don’t Tell You” 3. Episode 116: Jack Skeels, "Why Agencies Need to Rethink Project Management" 4. Episode 117: Tim Williams, "Why Time-Based Pricing Doesn’t Work" 5. Episode 114: Gareth Healey, "Stand Out or Die" 6. Episode 115: Tim Riesterer, “Why selling to client and prospects is different" 7. Episode 109: Michael Farmer, "Why the Agency Business Model Isn’t Working" 8. Episode 91: Sharon Toerek, "How Agencies Are Navigating the Legalities of AI Use" 9. Episode 111: Alison Coward, "How a Workshop Culture Builds High-Performing 10. Episode 105: Benjamin Dennehy & Marcus Cauchi, "How to Sell" If you’d like to be kept up to date with who is coming on the podcast, the topics we’re covering, receive tips about agency account management or to be notified about trainings I’m doing, you can sign up for my newsletter at my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

Welcome to episode 123. This episode will be particularly interesting for you if you're responsible for your agency's internal operations. You might be the operations director, head of project management, or even a client services director, but if you think your internal agency operations could be more efficient and streamlined, then this episode is for you. Harv Nagra is an agency ops consultant, a former in-house agency ops director, and Head of Brand Comms at agency work management platform Scoro. He's recently launched The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast. Here’s just a flavour of what Harv shared in our chat: • how to assess how developed your operations are using a five-stage business maturity model • what you should typically have in place at each of the five stages and what actions you need to take to move to the next stage. • and some of the key trends Harv is seeing for agencies when it comes to operations. Please do follow Harv on LinkedIn because he shares really good insights and tips about agency operations and project management. http://linkedin.com/in/harvnagra The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast: Podcast on Apple: https://apple.co/3y2R8DN Podcast on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3Lrg9f0 If you'd like to hear about my upcoming podcast episodes, account growth training sessions, tips about account management and news about the agency industry, you can sign up to receive my regular newsletter by going to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, or connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant

Welcome to episode 122. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're an ambitious agency owner looking to accelerate the growth of your agency. - Maybe you think you're not standing out enough from your competitors. - Perhaps you feel your positioning needs dialling in because maybe you've lost some pitches or you've had to drop your prices. - Or maybe you just want to be seen as more specialized and expert. Agency consultant and CEO of Co:definery, Robin Bonn, joins me to bust the myth that the agency market is oversupplied, and he explains how helps agencies create a future proofed, high margin agency business by creating their market of one. Robin explains exactly what a ‘market of one’ is, and how he's helped many agencies accelerate their growth with this approach. We also discussed some of the challenges agency owners are facing right now, and Robin offers some tips for how to remain positive and navigate the current climate. You can get in touch with Robin here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ https://www.codefinery.com/ Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

Welcome to episode 121. This is part two of a two-part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans, who are Co-Founders of Relationship Audits. If you missed part one, I would really recommend you go back and have a listen (it’s episode 120). Simon and Carey just packed it full of insights and tips for agencies when it comes to strengthening their client relationships. This episode is no exception and we talk about: - what every client wants but rarely gets from an agency - what a brain trust is and why you might want one for your agency - and why leveraging your learnings from other client relationships is often a huge missed opportunity. If you'd like notifications about future guests coming on the podcast, or notes from the episodes that I have with guests, as well as tips on agency account management and potential trainings, then you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

Welcome to Episode 120, which is the first of two episodes covering my in-depth chat with Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt, Co-Founders of Relationship Audits®. I met Simon and Carey many years ago when I was working as client services director for Publicis life Brands. We were struggling with a client relationship, it was a very important client but it wasn't going well. Whilst we knew some of the reasons why the relationship was faltering, we didn’t know the whole story, so we invited in Simon and Carey to evaluate our relationship. Essentially, they went into the client’s offices and interviewed all of key client stakeholders to find out what was going on and their perception of the agency. Not only did they uncover what was going well and what wasn't going well, they also uncovered growth opportunities for us as an agency to go back into the client and crystallize what they needed in the future and provide extra value. If we hadn't have done that and they hadn't have provided that action list, report and their recommendations, we wouldn't have retained that client for another two years, worth £700,000 to the agency per year. Immediately, the return on investment for employing the services of Relationship Audits changed the game for us. That’s why I am delighted that they've joined us back on the show for this two part interview, talking about what your clients don't tell you. Whilst you might be evaluating the strength of your relationships with your clients and asking them questions, what Relationship Audits do, and they've been doing it successfully for years, is listen for what's not being said. They have a very established question set and they're able to spot things that you will miss. If you would like to talk to either Carey or Simon, please visit their website, https://www.relationshipaudits.com, or send them an email at [email protected] Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

Welcome to episode 119. Today's episode is for you if you're curious to understand how another agency works, particularly when it comes to how they manage their client relationships and how they sell their services. I’m joined by David Huckerby, the owner, and Natasha Jones, the Account Director of creative communications agency, Conteur. Conteur is an award-winning full service creative communications agency. They help organisations in the health and social care, housing and hospitality sectors to stand out and grow through market leading PR , video and digital services. David and Natasha share so much insight into how they run their business, including: - why they follow the principle of providing a personalized seven star service to their clients - how they realized some of their clients weren't aligned with their own board and what they learned from that - how that then informed how they worked with their clients moving forward - why they introduced service packages as a result of filling a client demand and how that impacted the time spent on proposals - and why moving from a yearly client strategy focus to a quarterly focus helped the team's proactivity. You can connect with David and Natasha via their LinkedIn profiles: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-huckerby-05094330/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/natashajones24/ If you'd like to receive my weekly email where I share insights from the podcast, chats, tips and strategies to enhance your account management role, alerts for any training webinars I'm running, as well as all the training courses I run for the account management community, please visit my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter.