Breaking Even - Episode 09 - BBM - Surviving the Underground Scene

Ryan Conlon is not your typical music manager. He's the owner of Blackguard a clothing brand, production company, and barbershop all rolled into one, and he's managing four artists entirely on his own terms: no major label backing, no huge budget, just belief,  & strategy. Ryan gets into the realities of independent music management in the UK, what it actually costs to develop an artist, why he thinks marketing is what separates those who break through from those who don't, and how a late ADHD diagnosis helped him make sense of why he can do it all at once. He also opens up about burnout, dark places, men's mental health, and what breaking even really means when the money isn't the point. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Theo Bailey: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dingo.vip/  Ryan Conlon: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ryan__conlon/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@blackguardclothing Website - https://www.blackguardclothing.co.uk/  00:00:00 - Teaser 00:01:13 - Introducing Ryan Conlon & Blackguard 00:02:22 - Clothing, barbers, branding & music: the full Blackguard empire 00:03:19 - Running multiple businesses with ADHD 00:05:22 - Where it all started: from art class to entrepreneurship 00:06:18 - How clothes led him into the music industry 00:07:31 - What actually holds most artists back 00:09:03 - What does "breaking even" mean to a music manager? 00:10:21 - When is enough, enough? 00:11:01 - The roster: Sarge, Dreads, Cabbies & Dre Carti 00:13:12 - Owning your audience: email lists and the Even platform 00:14:36 - Training up the next manager under Blackguard 00:17:34 - Dre Carti: writing in the barbershop til 2am & a Jeremiah connection 00:19:35 - Why R&B might be the bigger opportunity right now 00:21:38 - Where Blackguard wants to be in 3 to 5 years 00:22:31 - How Ryan invests in artists without going broke 00:24:39 - What tools and subscriptions Ryan covers vs what artists pay for 00:27:06 - Managing artist expectations: label meetings at Costa 00:28:56 - Where is the actual money coming from right now? 00:30:18 - Why Sarge is the role model for the whole roster 00:32:13 - The Pole Up freestyle series explained 00:33:24 - The Breakthrough mixtape: putting Dudley on the map 00:34:01 - Pollinating audiences: bringing artists from different cities together 00:34:47 - Men's mental health and the Andy's Man Club charity event 00:37:18 - Youth mental health, school system failures & building community 00:38:17 - Burnout, dark spaces & why work keeps him sane 00:39:21 - The David vs Goliath mentality that drives him 00:40:15 - Why you need to look back at how far you've come 00:41:23 - Wrap up #BreakingEven #MusicBusiness #MusicManagement

In this episode, UK hip hop veteran D-Rilla joins Podcast to bridge the gap between the "boom bap" era and the modern digital landscape. From battling over payphones for radio airplay to launching his own artist development consultancy, D-Rilla provides a masterclass on longevity and the business of music. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants D-Rilla: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/d_rilla1/ Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/5ObaAfC58SIDWJktM5pSA5 YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@Drillauk1 TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drilla93  00:00 – The "Preachy" Rap Trap & Critique Groups 01:05 – UK Hip Hop History: The Skinny Man & Klashnekoff Era 02:18 – Payphone Battles & Winning on Radio 03:47 – Why He Never Sold CDs Out of a Trunk 05:18 – The UK as a "Dance Nation": From Jungle to Grime 06:49 – Global Control: Distributing Music to China 07:44 – Is Boom Bap Still Niche? 09:42 – The Entrepreneur Mindset & Modern Trap Sounds 11:13 – Latest Releases: Bidi Bidi & Afrobeat Vibes 12:12 – Creating a Character: Rap Persona vs. Real Life 14:17 – Five Record Deals & Cheesy Early Songs 16:19 – Gaming the Algorithm with Live Shows 17:36 – Advice: WhatsApp Critique Groups & Quality Engineering 18:16 – Launching the Consultancy: Hiring a Mentor 19:32 – Boundaries: Tabloids, Vulnerability, and Privacy 20:45 – The Politics Debate: Why He Avoids "Illuminati" Rap 23:30 – Competition in Rap: Then vs. Now 24:25 – How Giggs Shifted the Scene from Grime to Road Rap 26:59 – Future Plans: Summer EP & Crossing into House Music 29:49 – Strategic Timing of Releases (Spring/Summer) 33:03 – What People Pay For: Quality, Honesty & Guidance 34:23 – Royalty Checks vs. Achievement 36:10 – Streaming as a Marketing Tool & Owning Masters 37:40 – Breaking Even: Financial vs. Creative Definition #BreakingEvenPodcast #Drilla #UKHipHop #MusicIndustry #IndependentArtist #MusicMarketing #ArtistDevelopment #BoomBap #UKRap #MusicBusiness #DigitalDistribution #AlgorithmGrowth

The first-ever female winner of The Rap Game UK, Layyah, joins the Breaking Even Podcast to discuss her historic win and the reality of navigating the UK music scene in 2026. From being labeled a "generational artist" by Krept and Konan to the financial hurdles of representation, Layyah breaks down what it truly takes to stay multifaceted. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants Layyah: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/layyah Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/layyah2000/ Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/4dPLaOXT8fXdg8X0KSIMXF YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@LayyahsTV TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@layyah_2000  00:00 – Performance Intro & DJ AG Shoutout 02:26 – Grime Confidence: Snatching the Mic from the Mandem 02:48 – First Ever Female Winner of The Rap Game 03:17 – Working Under Pressure & Dealing with Loss 04:14 – Reality TV Secrets: Is The Rap Game Scripted? 05:07 – Handling the "Generational Artist" Label 06:10 – Performing at Leeds Festival with the Guys 06:51 – Why Numbers Lie: Monthly Listeners vs. Live Shows 08:04 – Musical Lore: Adele, Beyoncé, and Lauryn Hill 08:52 – The Father's Day Diss Track & Healing 10:56 – Is Real Rap Struggling in the UK? 12:36 – Sierra Leonean & South African Roots 14:06 – Melodies and the Songwriting Process 15:39 – Industry Frustrations: Jay Had a Dream & Cut Sets 17:22 – The Women in Music Fund & Financing 18:42 – The Financial Cost of Being a Female Artist 19:47 – Managing the Relationship: Mum as Manager 21:14 – 2026 Plans: New Music & May Collaborations 22:51 – "Layers to Layyah" EP Concept 23:28 – Being a Feature on Miss Banks’ Album 25:27 – Bucket List: Wireless Festival & New Collabs 26:15 – Meeting Heroes: The Kojey Radical Collaboration 27:35 – Dream Collaborations: Little Simz & Dave 29:31 – The Advantages of a Multidisciplinary Approach 30:36 – Scorcher: From DM to Feature 31:49 – First MOBO Awards Experience 33:15 – Scorcher as an Unofficial Mentor  #Layyah #TheRapGameUK #BreakingEvenPodcast #UKRap #WomenInMusic #Grime #MissBanks #KojeyRadical #MusicIndustry #IndependentArtist #LeedsFestival #LayersToLayyah

"If you want it easy, then it’s not going to last long." Mobi1 joins the Breaking Even Podcast for a deep dive into one of the most eclectic journeys in the UK scene. In this episode, we explore the transition from reality TV production to the music studio, why Mobi1 uses "velocity" and fast rapping as a form of therapy, and the experience of performing in Tokyo as a Black artist. Mobi1 also breaks down why he believes the traditional music industry infrastructure, from promo pages to A&Rs, is fundamentally changing. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants Mobi1: Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/mobi1music/ Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/5VpJyFjXLUygP94DVbHgUw?si=O1R5tPqxRK-gwsXzt_ciFg YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@Mobi1-music TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mobi1music 00:00 – Intro 01:06 – Routine, Discipline & Overcoming Depression 02:30 – Behind the Scenes of a Reality Dating Show 03:30 – The Debate: Do You Write Your Own Lyrics? 04:51 – The Skill of Songwriting & Structure 06:27 – Why Grime MCs are the World's Most Versatile Artists 07:24 – Storytelling vs. Packaging for the World 08:34 – Is Promoting Music on TikTok Just Gambling? 10:13 – Personal Branding as the New Advertising 11:03 – The Death of Traditional Instagram Promo Pages 13:41 – Chasing Trends vs. Organic World Building 15:32 – The Struggle of Being a DIY Content Creator 17:21 – Engineering & The Importance of Energy in the Room 18:59 – Perfectionism & Artist-Engineer Standards 21:17 – Vocal Mixing: Intentional Roughness vs. Bad Mixes 22:43 – The Mystery of Out-of-Key 808s 24:36 – The Role of an A&R: A Changing or Dying Craft? 26:17 – When Music Stops Being for "The Experience" 27:50 – Nick D Influence: No Budget Growth Strategies 28:46 – Drawing Inspiration from Society & Communities 31:33 – Steering Society: Social Media is Real 32:55 – Old Solutions: Selling Music on iPod Shuffles 34:36 – Velocity vs. Volume: Fast Rapping as Energy Therapy 38:01 – Love Never Dies Peacefully: Relationship Recovery & Codependency 41:33 – Accountability, Remorse & Over-Dwelling on Regret 43:02 – Happy Accidents: Making "Viral" Hits 44:43 – Performing in Greece & Zero-Budget Opportunities 46:20 – The "Drill Karaoke" Era of 2022 48:41 – Collaborative Content: Working with Leo Snow 51:20 – UK Competitiveness vs. Global Collaboration 52:44 – Recording Mixtapes on Discord Servers 53:44 – Tokyo: Cultural Shocks & Performing in Japan 55:50 – Exploring Edo Villages & Minority Visibility in Japan 57:19 – World Record Ambitions & The 16-Track Project #UKRap #MusicMarketing #TikTokArtist #IndependentArtist #MusicBusiness

"You can tell in the music when it’s not intentional." The sibling trio Obara (luchï, CSUFF2R, and Lanyi/Chika) joins the podcast to discuss their journey from Brentwood private schools to becoming a powerhouse creative family in the UK underground. In this episode, we dive into the comparison to the Adenuga family (Skepta, Jme, and Julie), the reality of being a female artist facing backhanded cosigns, and why the scene is currently flooded with "lifestyle rappers" who care more about the greenroom than the music. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants Chika/Lanyi: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lovelanyi/  CSUFF2R Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/csuff2r/ Luchï Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pinkstarsfly/ 00:00 – Intentionality: Music vs. The Rapper Lifestyle 00:46 – Meet Boro: The Sibling Dynamics & Family Hierarchy 02:32 – African Parents: Licks, TikTok Myths vs. Reality 03:29 – The "Adenuga" Comparison: Who is the Beyoncé/Skepta? 05:19 – Private School Beef & Being the "Only Black Kid" 07:29 – Essex Roots: Brentwood, Horses & Multiculturalism 08:29 – The 400 Collective: From Podcasting to Music 10:13 – See Safa’s Musical Outlet: Rapping to Express 11:16 – Early Bars: Stolen Lyrics & Parodying "The Box" 12:27 – Lani’s Influence: YouTube, Nella Rose & Branding 13:45 – The Travis Scott Moment: Music Saving Lives 14:41 – DJing: Curating Experiences over Button-Pushing 16:30 – Family Therapy? Navigating Management & Siblings 18:56 – Frank Ocean & Kendrick: The Cousins who Pushed Us 22:08 – Navigating the Underground: Infancy vs. Saturation 25:12 – Underestimated: Being Taken Seriously as a Teen Artist 26:07 – Sexism in the Scene: The "Cosign" Erasure 27:40 – Vultures & Weirdos: The Importance of Safe Studio Spaces 29:45 – The "Underground Bop" Joke & sexual Undertones 31:44 – Growth: Looking Back at the Person You Were Last Year 34:24 – Lagos Recording: Putting the Duvet Over the Head 35:54 – Nigeria Connection: Knowing Your Address in the Village 37:29 – Project Rollouts: "All I know is pink" & Concept Talk 40:21 – "Bouncy Trust" EP: Musical Utility & Recession Pop 44:15 – The Craft of DJing: Why Selectors Deserve Respect 46:12 – DJ Pet Peeves: Short Songs & 50 BPM Requests 50:30 – American Underground: Favoring the UK for Creative Direction 54:35 – The Lyrical Minimum: Why Everyone in the UK Can Spit 56:41 – Final Words: Real Groupies & Intentional Music #Obara #UKUnderground #BreakingEvenPodcast #EssexRap #FemaleRappers #MusicBusiness #400Collective #UKMusicScene

Tay Jordan joins the podcast to break down the sophisticated bridge between UK rap and the New York underground. In this episode, Tay dives into the "legal theory" that didn't work out, why he’s finally fully independent, and the reality of being a rapper in 2026 . We talk about Max B’s release, the "protectionist" nature of the UK music scene, and why we need more collaborative projects like the ones seen in the US underground. 01:09 – The Return of Max B: Dream Collabs & Sound Direction 04:09 – London & NYC: Barbershop DVDs & The Cultural Bridge 06:07 – Why Contrived Rap Battles are "Corny" 07:07 – UK "Protectionism" vs. US Underground Output 11:37 – Independent Strategy: Ditching Rollouts for Consistency 14:26 – The Struggle of Being a Frank Ocean & Rihanna Fan 15:36 – Redefining Success: Cultural Capital vs. Streams 19:25 – The NYC Influence on UK Rap Rhyme Schemes 21:52 – Production Secrets: The Hardware Era & "The Virus" Synth 24:31 – Concept Building: Video Games, WWE, & "Outrun" 27:25 – Building the Independent Team: No More Labels 28:43 – The Trunk Strategy: Sonny Jim, MF DOOM, & Merch 31:19 – Lore: Recording with Sugababes & Leona Lewis 32:32 – School Struggles: Stolen Bars & The Racial Divide 34:53 – Croydon College & Radical Activism 38:10 – Rappers as Sociologists: Using a Politics Degree 40:32 – Arrogance & Petty Beef: 50 Cent vs. Mamdani 41:51 – The Sport of Lying: The Game, Fat Joe, & Barbecue Stories 45:04 – The "Tiny Askie" Barbecue Fight 46:18 – Moral of the Story: Specs Gonzalez & Closing Words Follow us on all platforms Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants Tay Jordan: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tayjordan_pc/ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@tayjordanmusic Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/13WFAXpgT5EchE1bdPG8ct?si=tCqR1m_US9-oyNKW6NsiVg TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tayjordan_pc #TayJordan #MaxB #UKRap #NewYorkRap #IndependentArtist #MusicBusiness #BreakingEvenPodcast #GFunk #LondonMusic #RapStrateg

"I’m clickbait with the truth." Cadell sits down for a long-overdue conversation on his role as the musical right hand and "conduit" for Lancey Foux. In this episode, we break down the real meaning behind the track "Eagle Eye," the alleged £30 million offers floating around the scene, and why SD Kid is family regardless of the internet narrative. Cadell doesn't hold back on the state of Grime, calling it a "retirement home" for artists who refuse to innovate or release actual albums. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants Cadell: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/realcadell YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfgVtkHZaeeExNdJhS0nuyA Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/3pxyL7DwUOwN9Hd8rb77k4?si=_6vi5azJTJyaHBHb44uoSQ  #Cadell #LanceyFoux #EagleEye #Grime #UKUnderground #BreakingEvenPodcast #MusicBusiness #SDKid #LondonScene #IndependentArtist

"If you don’t grow, you get left in the past." In this episode of the Breaking Even Podcast, we sit down with Antzz and 3re6ix to discuss the raw reality of the UK underground in 2026. From recording hits on BandLab with gaming headphones to the "dark" reality of the 2016 nostalgia wave, we explore how the next generation of South London talent is building a cohesive movement without the need for a major label backend. The crew gets brutally honest about the "creative economy" that relies on draining independent musicians. Find out why even "crazy numbers" don't always mean you're making a profit, how to avoid the "clone" trap, and the truth about those "mysterious" artist gimmicks. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants Antzz: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/3re6ix_/ https://www.instagram.com/whereisantzzz/ Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/4YvdVSgOLrxlMmbIwfdR6H  #BreakingEven #Antzz #3re6ix #UTL #UKUnderground #BandLab #RootsManuva #SouthLondonRap #MusicPodcast #2016Nostalgia #IndependentArtist #MusicProduction #PunchingIn #MasterPlan

Welcome back to another episode of the Breaking Even Podcast. Today, we’re joined by BBM (Bad Bitch Music), an underground duo navigating the chaotic intersection of corporate day jobs, PhD research, and the "financially terrible" reality of the music industry. From the "Golden Age of Piracy" to the decline of radio and the politics of Afro-fusion, we dive deep into how to survive as an artist in 2026 without losing your mind, or your bank account. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants BBM: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/badbitchmusicc?igsh=OXdhZnY4YTN3cmRp https://www.instagram.com/xt1ana?igsh=MXVodTZlaWp5cW10ag== https://www.instagram.com/kel4r?igsh=MWUyMmRhZTN5ZmdpNQ== Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/0Qr87LuabXjROtUkjyn0kW?si=5t8EkqsPRGGbEnh9OJMKGQ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHD1EnLPU4BMTbs6dGyqNKg #BBM #BadBitchMusic #MusicIndustryTruths #UndergroundRap #AfroFusion #IndependentArtist #MusicFinances #PhDLife #BreakingEvenPodcast #BeatLeasing

We’re back with a raw look at the business of being an artist. This week, Reptile B joins us to pull back the curtain on the reality of navigating the industry as an independent artist today. This isn't your typical "how to get famous" interview. We get into the messy reality of the "outrage economy" and how a sudden YouTube ban forced a massive shift in perspective. We also dive into the "Simulation”, that weird feeling that the music industry is just a high-school-style hierarchy where everyone is chasing the next gimmick instead of making something real. Reptile B opens up about the pressure to "sanitize" personal trauma for public consumption and explains why they decided to lean into a "Horror" aesthetic instead. If you've ever felt like you're fighting the algorithm just to stay authentic, this conversation is for you. We’re breaking down why live shows are the main revenue driver, how to build a community that sticks, and why you have to stop caring about "following fashion" if you want to survive. Follow us on all platforms! Audience Economy: Even - https://www.even.biz/artists/audience-economy  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/breakingeven_uk TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@breakingevenuk Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4btjfmM5oCYz9SV8Y0ZlAS?trackId=5N6UwTCRK9q6ueHn2kzisw Ed Rants: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ed_rants/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@ed_rants Reptile B: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/onlyreptileb/ Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/4f1IbuWYXHRxQMPvD6GFWi YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcsxd6UuJw5tIRHkkRP89_g TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@onlyreptileb #MusicBusiness #ArtistManagement #IndependentArtist #MusicExecutive #MusicRevenue #LivePerformance #MusicStrategy #ReptileB #QueerRap #YouTubeBan #OutrageEconomy #IndustrySecrets #MusicHorror #BreakingEven #HustlingBackwards