#26 BIG Podcast (PART 1) - “Nation State Model and Creative Solutions for Border Problems” - With: Nick Megoran – Political Geographer at Newcastle University, England

What do state borders mean in a world where thousands of different jurisdictions overlap, serve multiple functions, and take multiple forms? The theme of this podcast explores the concept of jurisdiction in light of Border Studies, state territorial sovereignty and the normative power of the State which can extend beyond borders. There are several types of jurisdictions. Territorial jurisdiction refers to the power of a state to enforce its laws within its geographic boundaries, while extraterritorial jurisdiction refers to the ability of a state to extend its laws beyond its borders often due to particular links, such as actions having effects on its nationals or its interests abroad (and this extraterritorial jurisdiction also concerns other entities such as the EU, or even certain global private firms). This topic raises complex questions regarding sovereignty, human rights, international cooperation and the regulation of transnational activities. It allows us to better understand the variable function of legal limits of borders. The first part of the podcast mainly focuses on the notion of jurisdiction and jurisdiction of a territorial nature. TIME MARKERS 00:00 Introduction 01:56 The importance of the category of territory and territorial sovereignty 03:23 The limitations of the sovereignty of the State in its own territory 05:56 The social constructed meaning of territoriality 08:52 What does the term of “jurisdiction” mean? 11:15 The links between the notion of jurisdiction and the border between States 13:38 The major theoretical debates on the nature of State jurisdiction 18:00 The history of the territoriality/extra-territoriality couple and decoupling 23:13 Civil law, criminal law, public law and private law and the notion of jurisdiction 25:47 Effects of Globalization on the Territorial Principle 28:58 Politicization of the tool of Jurisdiction and “economic war” Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic 

Dans notre monde interconnecté, les frontières entre États jouent un rôle fondamental, mais leur histoire est souvent méconnue. Ces lignes sur la carte représentent des histoires de conflits, de négociations, de cultures en interaction et d'identités façonnées au fil du temps. Pour explorer cette thématique fascinante, nous avons le plaisir d'accueillir Claire de Blois, Enseignant-Chercheur, spécialisée dans l’histoire du droit et des frontières pour une période bien spécifique 1648-1815, et qui a d’ailleurs fait une thèse sur ce thème. C’est une période fondamentale pour l’histoire du droit des frontières car c’est le moment de la naissance des frontières modernes, du concept moderne de frontière. Dans cette seconde partie du podcast, nous allons explorer la construction juridique des frontières modernes: limite territoriale étatique et frontière linéaire. TIME MARKERS 00:00 La construction progressive de la conception moderne de frontière 04:49 Double vision : La frontière déterminée par le droit; L’exercice du droit délimité par la frontière 07:23 Le processus et les finalités de la rationalisation des frontières 12:18 L’émergence du critère de la linéarité 14:33 Détermination (échanges de territoire), délimitation (tracé de la frontière) et démarcation (matérialisation de la frontière) 15:33 Le traité de Nimègue de 1678 et la frontière qui répond à une logique territoriale 16:59 Les politiques frontalières : le rôle des intérêts défensifs des Etats dans la frontière-ligne 21:08 Les politiques frontalières : le rôle des intérêts économiques et commerciaux des Etats dans la frontière-ligne 24:04 L’importance de la cartographie dans la production de connaissance juridique des frontières 28:19 Le débat sur le concept de « frontières naturelles » dans l’histoire du droit des frontières 33:24 Le rôle majeur de l’outil diplomatique des commissions de délimitation 40:36 Le rôle des populations locales dans la désignation des limites d’autorités 44:01 La définition finale du « concept moderne de frontière » en droit 51:19 Conclusion Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic 

Dans notre monde interconnecté, les frontières entre États jouent un rôle fondamental, mais leur histoire est souvent méconnue. Ces lignes sur la carte représentent des histoires de conflits, de négociations, de cultures en interaction et d'identités façonnées au fil du temps. Pour explorer cette thématique fascinante, nous avons le plaisir d'accueillir Claire de Blois, enseignant-chercheur en droit public à l’Université d’Orléans - Centre de recherche juridique Pothier -, spécialisée dans l’histoire du droit et des frontières pour une période bien spécifique 1648-1815, et qui a d’ailleurs fait une thèse sur ce thème. C’est une période fondamentale pour l’histoire du droit des frontières car c’est le moment de la naissance des frontières modernes, du concept moderne de frontière. Dans cette première partie du podcast, nous allons examiner l’histoire des frontières modernes à la lumière de l’histoire du droit.   TIME MARKERS 00:00 L’histoire des frontières modernes à la lumière de l’histoire du droit 02:24 L’intérêt de l’histoire du droit pour l’étude des frontières 05:48 La méthodologie historique et les sources juridiques et diplomatiques 07:28 La frontière, objet pluridisciplinaire 08:39 L’originalité de la recherche historique et juridique 09:46 La justification de la recherche sur la frontière de nature terrestre et la période 1648-1815 16:43 D’où vient le terme de frontière ? 19:50 Les relations et distinctions sémantiques entre la « frontière » et la « limite » 22:41 Une évolution du concept de frontière dans l’édition de 1718 du Dictionnaire de l’Académie française 24:46 Les formes de la frontière qui précèdent les Traités de Westphalie 28:39 L’association des dimensions de la ligne et de la zone dans une frontière complexe Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic 

Ports of Entry (PoE) are vital nodes of global connectivity, they serve as entry and exit points for global trade. Ports (seaports, airports, …) often serve as checkpoints for the movement of people and goods, they are interfaces between land territories and maritime/air spaces which symbolize the meeting between cultures and economies, but also the challenges linked to national security and border regulation. With the rise of connectivity and digitalization, PoE face increasing challenges in data management and cybersecurity. With the AI and new technologies, a new paradigm is emerging with new concepts as federated learnings, trusted networks, and signal risk sharing. We will discuss all this, borders and globalization 2.0 with Alan D. Bersin. TIME MARKERS 01:33 The role of Ports of Entry in the Global Supply Chain 12:00 Key Policy Elements Involved 24:43 Managing the different laws and jurisdictions in terms of Global Data Protection 29:35 Role of Regions in Globalization 2.0 and Concrete examples of Ports of the Future 35:50 Global Environmental Sustainability Challenges 39:50 Learnings from Ports of Entry for the Border Studies

#31 BIG Podcast - “Democracy, Migration Studies and Border Studies: Gaps and/or Bridges” - With: Oliver Schmidtke, Political scientist, Director of the Center for Global Studies – Victoria, Canada; (PART 2) Classically, Migration Studies explore all mobility regimes of human groups. There is a spectrum of public policies ranging from the migration of high-skilled workers to refugees. For the Migration Studies, national borders provide a form of social closure. Traditionally, Borders refer to issues that are fundamental to political community (state sovereignty, territorial delimitation, national security, political identity). And for this reason, borders are also instruments for regulating flows, policy tool for inclusion/exclusion. Several authors have pointed out a form of gap between Border Studies and Migration Studies. That there was a lack of cross-fertilization between these two research traditions. And some populist and nationalist discourses can exploit the ambivalence of the borders and the confusion around it. We will discuss about all the relations between democracy, migration and borders and get answers with Oliver Schmidtke. Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TIME MARKERS 00:22 Crisis of Democracy and the Political Question of the Boundaries of Shared Collective Identity 6:17 Relations between Democracy and the Growth of Nationalism and Populism 10:12 Cleisthenes and the question of the delimitation of a “Demos” 14:53 What is happening in Europe? New Geography of Political Discontent and Skepticism about Democratic Practices? 19:17 Nativism Activism and the threats against Democracy in Europe 23:15 Populism and the concept of Popular Sovereignty 27:28 Neoliberalism against Democracy and the Right-Wing Nationalism 31:31Different Types of Democracies, Cross-Border identities and the Role of Memory 38:52 Importance of Academic Research and Future of the Center for Global Studies

#30 BIG Podcast - “Democracy, Migration Studies and Border Studies: Bridges and/or Gaps” - With: Oliver Schmidtke, Political scientist, Director of the Center for Global Studies – Victoria, Canada; (PART 1) Classically, Migration Studies explore all mobility regimes of human groups. There is a spectrum of public policies ranging from the migration of high-skilled workers to refugees. For the Migration Studies, national borders provide a form of social closure. Traditionally, Borders refer to issues that are fundamental to political community (state sovereignty, territorial delimitation, national security, political identity). And for this reason, borders are also instruments for regulating flows, policy tool for inclusion/exclusion. Several authors have pointed out a form of gap between Border Studies and Migration Studies. That there was a lack of cross-fertilization between these two research traditions. And some populist and nationalist discourses can exploit the ambivalence of the borders and the confusion around it. We will discuss about all the relations between democracy, migration and borders and get answers with Oliver Schmidtke. Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TIME MARKERS 03:34 The Links between Migration Studies and Border Studies 07:16 Migration Studies and the concept of Border 13:16 Liberal paradox, Physical Walls and Administrative Walls 20:41 Ethical Challenges and The Hardening of Borders 26:58 No Borders and Mutual Assistance at Borders in Migration Studies 33.32 National Imagination of Borders and Migrations

With: David J. Breeze – British archaeologist and scholar of Hadrian's Wall⁠, the Antonine's Wall⁠ and the Roman army⁠; Chairman of the International Congress of Roman Frontier Studies from 2000 to 2015 A second wall was built to the north of Hadrian's Wall from 141-142 AD until 155 AD but was abandoned militarily in 164. This is the Antonine’s Wall (three meters high with a fence along the top, length of approximately 60 km with seventeen forts, other ‘fortlets’ and ramparts built from layers of turf and bordered north by a ditch 12 m wide at the top with a depth of 4 m; with also one military path south of the rampart, bath-houses, barracks, and around 7,000 soldiers living all along). Unlike Hadrian, Emperor Antoninus (reigned 138–161) never set foot in the province of Britannia. By ordering the construction of this wall further north, Antoninus therefore modified Hadrian's legacy in terms of frontier policies. What functions did the borders of the Roman Empire have? What functions did Hadrian's Wall have? Can the frontiers of the Roman Empire be considered strict separations between the civilized (Roman) world and the world of the barbarians ("qui barbaros Romanosque Divideret")? How is archeology an interesting and relevant discipline for Border Studies? We will discuss all this and get answers with archeologist David J. Breeze. Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic ⁠⁠⁠⁠ Time Markers: 00:01 How was a normal day in Hadrian's Wall camp or fort? Vindolanda Tablets Answers. 07:44 Archeological Evidence of Customs Relations at the Frontiers? 10:36 Antonine’s Wall/ Hadrian's Wall: Comparison 19:41 The great flexibility of the Romans in the organization of their numerous and diverse frontiers 24:56 Fall of the Roman Empire: Which borders were the most difficult and fragile to defend? 30:00 Frontiers of the Roman Empire and UNESCO World Heritage Sites 32:37 How is archeology an interesting and relevant discipline for Border Studies?

With: David J. Breeze – British archaeologist and scholar of Hadrian's Wall, the Antonine's Wall and the Roman army; Chairman of the International Congress of Roman Frontier Studies from 2000 to 2015 The history of the Roman Empire is intertwined with the control of the entire Mediterranean Sea and reached at its peak 5 million km² for 60 million inhabitants. The empire was heterogeneous and expanded through conquests and was maintained through a network of frontiers and a system of friendly, allies or “client” states (reges amicique populi Romani). Due to rebellions from some tribes as the Brigantes, and after having visited the Danube and Rhine frontiers, the Roman Emperor Hadrian (reigned 117–138) came to Brittania in July 122 BC. By ordering the construction of the Wall (between 122 – and maybe before according to certain authors – and 127 AD), Hadrian put an end to the territorial expansion of the Roman Empire. In short, Hadrian adopted a policy of protecting frontiers without expansion. What functions did the borders of the Roman Empire have? What functions did Hadrian's Wall have? Can the frontiers of the Roman Empire be considered strict separations between the civilized (Roman) world and the world of the barbarians ("qui barbaros Romanosque Divideret")? How is archeology an interesting and relevant discipline for Border Studies? We will discuss all this and get answers with archeologist David J. Breeze. Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic ⁠⁠⁠ Time Markers: 00:00 Intro with David J. Breeze 01:41 State of Archeological Knowledge of the Frontiers of the Roman Empire 05:13 The Functions of the Frontiers of the Roman Empire 13:15 Roman “limes” and Empire's defensive systems? 20:10 Organization of the Roman army on the frontiers and the question of what is beyond the frontiers 27:12 Emperor Hadrian (Publius Aelius Hadrianus) and the Frontiers of The Roman Empire 36:57 Hadrian’s Wall: history of archaeological research and the functions of the wall

The Nation-State model is built on the synchronization between a so-called state territory and a so-called national population. The mechanical imposition of this specific model has led to serious conflicts in certain parts of the world. What are the consequences of this model on the design of the country's borders? How to organize borderlands while avoiding conflicts with neighbors? With Nick Megoran, this podcast (in 2 parts) is an opportunity to talk about several original practices such as condominiums, joint development zones, territorial leasing, enclaves, the exchange of territory, statutory autonomy, free and customs zones, law of neighborliness, mobile borders, decoupling of international borders from other functional or administrative limits, juridical, fiscal and economic cross-border cooperation. So many illustrations that allow us to think differently about sovereignty and state borders. Transboundary Cooperation transcend the Border Nation State System. Sovereignty doesn’t have to be Zero-Sum. Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic ⁠⁠ Time Markers: 00:00 Cross-border cooperation legal tools (Ex: Local Cross-border Cooperation Group (GLCT) of The Greater Geneva ; European grouping of territorial cooperation (EGTC) of “Cerdagne Hospital”) 04:12 Cross-border tax cooperation between Geneva/France; Economic Co-Development of the Columbia River between Canada/USA 07:33 Luxembourg, Cross-Border Workers, Teleworking, Fiscal Challenges and Legal Solutions 09:03 Cross-Coordination for Whom? 13:40 Law of neighborliness and 4 fundamental rules for contiguous States 16:03 Examples of “Quinto Real”, “Mundat forest”, and the “free zones of Pays de Gex and Haute-Savoie” 23:28 Mobile Watershed lines on the Mountains and Mobile Borders in the Rivers 26:10 Transboundary Cooperation transcend the Border Nation State System 28:12 Added Value of Political Geography for Border Studies

The Nation-State model is built on the synchronization between a so-called state territory and a so-called national population. The mechanical imposition of this specific model has led to serious conflicts in certain parts of the world (we will discover the ancient situation of Denmark/Germany border and the current one of Kyrgyzstan/Uzbekistan border). There have been several ways of thinking and representing the construction of this nation-state with its constituent factors, its regime of political sovereignty and territorial boundaries: community of origin, community of language, community of interests and values, cultural homogenization, elective community, common history and territorial patriotism but also imagined community. What are the consequences of this model on the design of the country's borders? How to organize borderlands while avoiding conflicts with neighbors? With Nick Megoran, this podcast (in 2 parts) is an opportunity to talk about several original practices such as condominiums, joint development zones, territorial leasing, enclaves, the exchange of territory, statutory autonomy, free and customs zones, mobile borders, decoupling of international borders from other functional or administrative limits, juridical and economic cross-border cooperation. So many illustrations that allow us to think differently about sovereignty and state borders. Sovereignty doesn’t have to be Zero-Sum. Borders don’t have to be Walls and Barriers. Websites: BIG Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://biglobalization.org  ⁠⁠⁠ JMN Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/intd/europe/eu-grants/network/hmsdata-20-23/index.php⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe: ⁠⁠⁠http://bit.ly/2AL0HbO⁠⁠⁠  Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/BordersInGlobalization⁠⁠⁠  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/big_uvic ⁠ Time Markers: 00:00 Intro 01:53 Our Guest today: Nick Megoran 03:28 The Nation-State Model and its links with Borders 07:13 Denmark/Germany Schleswig War and Modern State Building Challenges 15:57 Condominium; Joint development Zone; Territorial Leasing 22:21 Cross-Border Ferghana Valley (Uzbekistan/Kyrgyzstan/Tajikistan) facing National Bordering Processes 29:14 Uzbekistan/Kyrgyzstan Border Clash and the Overcome of the Violence by Open Borders 32:34 Bilateral Exchange of Lands and International Boundary Delimitation (Uzbekistan/Kyrgyzstan; Eritrea/Ethiopia) 37:09 Enclaves/Exclaves : Pros and Cons 42:23 Enclaves Patchwork between Netherlands and Belgium in Baarle and Common Services Successes 45:43 Cross-Enclaves Fireworks Businesses and The Rule of Front Door for Citizenship 48:51 Autonomous status and the Example of Åland Islands (part of Finland Territory but Swedish Official Language) 50:16 Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict Situation 50:50 Example of 1923 Lausanne Treaty and Greece/Turkey Population Exchange: Ethnic Cleansing as one of the Darkest Side of The Nation State