APEX Express – 11.12.26 – Election Reflection

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight, we are having an election reflection. This is your host, Miko Lee, and it’s been a bit over a week since the history-making and herstory-breaking US midterm elections. We get to hear from two powerful women leaders, Nancy Xiong from Hmong Innovating Politics Action Fund, and Farah Mizrahi from Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, POWER. We recorded this interview on Thursday, November fifth, and you’ll hear us talk about a few races that were eagerly being watched.   More info about our guests: Hmong Innovating Politics Alliance of South Asians Taking Action   Show Transcript [00:00:00] Opening: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It’s time to get on board the Apex Express.   [00:00:34] Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. Tonight, we are having an election reflection. This is your host, Miko Lee, and it’s been a bit over a week since the history-making and herstory-breaking US midterm elections. We get to hear from two powerful women leaders, Nancy Xiong from Hmong Innovating Politics Action Fund, and Farah Mizrahi from Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, POWER. We recorded this interview on Thursday, November fifth, and you’ll hear us talk about a few races that were eagerly being watched. Today, as I’m recording, it’s Tuesday, November tenth, and the congressional race of Mai Vang and Fremont City Council race Aziz Ekbari have not been officially called yet. In Fresno, Council One, Nandip Singh currently leads by 199 votes. So when folks say their votes don’t count, just listen to how close these numbers are. 199, that is amazing. Voting clearly does make a difference. We saw a huge Asian American Pacific Islander turnout during this midterm election, and we saw that 84% of young AAPI women voted for the Democratic House candidates, just behind young Black women. 79% of young AAPI men voted for Democratic House candidates, the highest of all racial groups. With the new incoming Congress members, we will have the largest number of AAPIs in Congress, and yet we’ll still only equal 4% of the Congress, nowhere near equal the 9% of our population. We’ll also have the largest number of women in Congress, but women only make up 28% of Congress when women represent 51% of the population. In twenty-twenty five, the average age of an American is 39. The average age of a Congress member is 60. That’s the average age. So despite our amazing gains in this midterm elections, Congress is still primarily held by older, straight, cisgendered white men. So y’all, we still have a lot of work to do. But for now, let’s celebrate the victories and talk about the path forward with my guests, Nancy Xiong from Hmong Innovating Politics Action Fund, and Farah Mizrahi from Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, POWER. Welcome to Apex Express, my colleagues, my powerful women. I would love it if you could introduce yourselves today. Our episode is called Election Reflection: Midterms 2026, and we’re just all riding… I at least w- am riding the blue wave and feeling incredibly happy right now. I’d love you to introduce yourselves say who you are, what organization you work with, and what’s rising up for you right now. Let’s start with Nancy.    [00:04:04] Nancy Xiong: Hi, everyone. I’m Nancy Xiong. I’m the executive director for Hmong Innovating Politics, and I’ve been reflecting a lot with my team, or mostly my directors, in the last couple of days, and I think I just feel a lot of hope, and more so hope in, like, our young people and, like, our group of volunteers, like folks that have continuously shown out even though there was this big influx of, like, ICE in our regions, and I think there was a lot of fear. And I think just the courage and bravery that people have shown in the last month. I feel a lot of hope because of that. You know, taking it one day at a time as well, ’cause I have a lot of thoughts on this, but, um, I just, I, I know that we are in the right relationships, and I, I feel really good about that.   [00:04:47] Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Nancy. And I just want to say officially, today when we’re recording this is November 5th, so it’s a couple of days after the midterm elections. Um, and this will actually air next week, and so we don’t even know what’s gonna happen by next week. There’s so many races that aren’t even called. But I wanna invite my other guest to introduce herself. Farah?    [00:05:08] Farah Mahesri: My name is Farah Mehesri. I organize with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action Power, so ASATA POWER. And I’m sitting kind of with two things. One is, Nancy, similar to what you were saying, just an incredible amount of joy, or especially for my comrades and fellow organizers who have really only organized in Trump era. You know, all of the people who’ve really been organizing since, like, say even 2014, to experience this moment where I think… I still have some moments from, like, way back where I was like, I remember when politics did make me feel good things, not just, like, horrible things. And I am so excited for myself to have some of my comrades and colleagues who have been organizing for so long under just Trump, that’s all they know, and all of the fights that they’ve had, all of the victories that they have achieved, that we’ve all achieved, but especially them under such horrible conditions, what they will do with this moment. Like, what, what is possible under this opportunity under the leadership of so many people who have been organizing on Palestine, who have been organizing against ICE, like, these really big battles. And then Miko, as you said, because it is, you know, the Thursday after the election, I am sitting with a lot of questions. I- there’s so much data that isn’t completely out yet that I’m like, I wanna know how… I wanted the breakdowns, um, and to get into a lot of the data that just isn’t available yet.   [00:06:41] Miko Lee: Ooh, there’s so many things you both just said, but because you both talked about young people and the feeling of organizing during the time of Trump, I’m wondering if you could expand on that. What are some of the things that your young organizers are saying about this moment?    [00:06:57] Nancy Xiong: I think I’ve been doing a lot of reflection about two years ago and, you know, when Trump took office, it was just really, it was a dark time for me. Like, even as someone who’s, like, an executive director and I feel like there is this pressure to always have hope and be like, “We can do it,” you know? At the same time, it’s like th- I, I was having some really real, like, fears of like, will, will we have be enough, you know, to fight against fascism, to fight against a larger system? Because we will– we just don’t have enough funding, you know? We don’t have enough, you know, the list goes on of, of how to really combat this. And so two years now, I can, like, look back and just say like, you know, all, all of our young people, um, and the folks that have been able, we’ve been able to engage with, uh, this past year, um, they are just so brave and courageous, you know? Um, e- even when we’re, like, really nervous about having these conversations because they have real life impacts, our young people are like, “Where do you need me to be?” You know, “Where do you need me to go?” Um, “What,” you know, “What, what support do you need from us?” And it was just so inspirational for us that, like, that hope and that inspiration is so, um- It’s, it’s like so contagious, you know? It’s like if this young person is telling me where do I need to be and, you know, it’s like your fear is also valid. Um, and you can still feel like hopeful because you are just seeing that this fight isn’t just, you know, us as staff fighting, but like now we have folks that, you know, are a part of our membership who also care and see the same things that you’re seeing. And sometimes I feel like am I the delusional? You know, like am I delusional? Because are you not seeing the same things that I am seeing or feeling? And, uh, it’s been really great, I think, to just be grounded in that this is not normal and that we have each other. And I think I have just been riding on that since, you know, two years ago, is just having that hope and knowing that there is more of us, and that at the end of everything that feels hard, like, I always lean back on my community, especially my team, to really give me the strength and the hope to keep fighting. And, um, I think that’s also about what resiliency is about, right? So it’s not just about like us as individuals, you know, getting over things and moving through things, but it’s like how do we also reassure each other in, in these moments. Um, and how we build resiliency together is like equally as im- important. And so I feel a lot better than I was two years ago, but I’m also like we deserve more and we gotta demand more because I do not want to go through this again, and that more is possible. I’m, I’m gonna work on it with my team next year, uh, at our staff retreat to really talk about like what is this new world that we are really imagining because I feel it in my heart, I feel it in my bones, and we really have to fight for the world that we want. And so yeah, I’m just like riding on that as like we really have to reimagine this ’cause this is not the world I, I’m, I, I want for our, for me, for our young people. Getting the spaciousness to really dream.    [00:10:14] Miko Lee: Oh, I love that, Nancy. Um, Farah, what are, what are you thinking about young people and organizing and where they’re at in this moment?   [00:10:23] Farah Mahesri: Ooh, I mean, so many things. Such a great question. Nancy, I agree with a, a lot of what you said. Again, especially that hope element. Um, and as we talk about hope and we talk about elections, it does bring up Obama’s win in, in 2008 for me in particular, right? That moment of watching the returns come in, that’s the flashback I had on Tuesday of, like, being on this precipice, wanting to beli- like, wanting to be excited, trying to hold myself back to be like, “Don’t get too excited.” Like, um, and I think one of the things that’s different, that feels different for me is that it felt like in 2008 it was a little bit of like we won this big thing, and now we can all stand down a little. What I’m really proud of over the last, like, day and a half, it is still November 5th, is just the number of people who are like, “Yeah, that’s not what we’re doing this time,” right? Like, this is- this was great, and- We are gonna hold each and every single one of these electeds accountable. We are going to demand the things that we want. We are not just gonna be like, “Oh, we’re gonna trust you to get it done,” or, you know, “Oh, it’ll take you a little while to get settled into your new Congress.” Like, the demand letters are already coming out. The like… And again, not to say that that wasn’t happening in 2008, but I think the other thing that’s feels different to me is just the sheer amount of infrastructure that our movements have built over the last 14, 16, almost 20 years at this point. Um, so much of it by young people, but also some of the infrastructure that we’ve built before that, that we are now able to hand off to this new crop of unbelievable leaders who are coming up. Um, and that includes, you know, the really like unexciting operations things that we have people, Nancy, like you, who are executive directors. Which, you know, 20 years ago wasn’t a thing. Like, there were so, there were far fewer of us, particularly women of color representing communities like ours who had these types of platforms and organizations and institutions that we could put so much energy into. Um, and I, amidst all the political wins, I also wanna take a moment to just like celebrate just the amount of infrastructure that we have built that has made all of this possible. Um, one of the things I was watching on election night was, uh, the Black Campaign Schools coverage, and they kicked it off with Stacey Abrams coming on, right? And again, that talking, just hearing her talk again about starting in 2010 to build this project where you go door to door and you organize and you believe every single one of our peoples is worth organizing. And doing it in, in Georgia and getting to this unbelievable win, and then saying, “I’ve also started doing it in Mississippi, and everyone told me that that was ridiculous. And now I’m sitting here on Thursday and everyone in the country is watching a Senate race in Mississippi.” Which it’s, I still can’t believe I’m saying those words.    [00:13:40] Miko Lee: Yes, fingers crossed by the time this airs we’ll have more information on some of these races. But Farah, to your point, women of color this election, the historic roads, you know, our first Native American governor, uh, but the Black women in… I mean, Stacey Abrams, to your point about infrastructure, we have eight Black women in Georgia that won seats, and the governor. And I don’t know if either of you saw that cover of The Atlanta Constitution, but it talked about a man who was, uh, enslaved and, you know, priced at $1,200 and now his great-great-great-granddaughter is the governor of the state of Georgia. That’s just so, to me, for as mu- how cynical I get about America, to me that’s the American dream. You know, that you could come from this incredible hardship that this country has done to so many people, but then rise up to take leadership and be ready to clean up. That to me, yeah, and we can owe it to the Stacey Abrams because the infrastructure that she built and the r- repercussions that it’s having across the country. So I wonder if there’s other things that stood out to both of you about, there’s just, there’s so many firsts in this midterm election, not just, you know, the most women of color ever, the most female governors ever, which can I just say is 17, 14 of them are Democrats. But, and in a way it’s like, yay, 17 female governors. And then I think like, with the territories we have what? Like 55 different places, and we only have 17 women? So in a way that’s kinda depressing to me. I don’t know about y’all, but are there other things that have stood out to you as firsts that are remarkable to you both?  [00:15:30] Nancy Xiong: I was literally thinking about Stacey Abrams the last, like, day and a half, you know? And it made me think a lot about, like, again, back to the resiliency of, like, okay, I lost twice and I have to build something bigger. Like, it is, this is bigger than me, right? Like, running as an elected. And I think that has been, like, the spirit of, like, what my team and I wanna bring into, like, the Hmong community in the Central Valley, right, is that We are building everything. We are following the, the book, right? Like, it’s like register voters, canvassing, having these conversations, um, through canvassing, through phone banking. Uh, the relationships that we’re building with our, our young people, you know, extend beyond just… Um, again, like, our goal is that we just don’t want you to organize within HIP, you know? Like, we want you to organize in every space that you are in because the world is not gonna get better because we’re gonna- because we organize harder in, in, within HIP, right? It’s like every place that you go into, you really have to organize, right? You really have to build those relationships. These are the folks that are gonna be building the better world that we keep talking about. And so how do they bring what they learn, um, in HIP into all parts of, of their lives? And that’s, like, what we’ve been thinking a lot about, uh, as we’re thinking through, like, our membership piece especially. And I’m like, there’s, like, that programmatic piece of, like, how do we get peop- like our, our communities to care and then also continue building that resiliency to like, yes, we’re gonna lose along the way, but that should not stop us from wanting to dream bigger and build something bigger and stronger. And, uh, I think a lot about that because I’ve been in HIP since 2012. So Farah, when you’re talking about, like, 2010, and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I was just, like, two years before HIP started,” you know? Um, and where we are in this moment in time, it’s like we have such a strong political home and for our young people. And as much as it is this, like, brave and safe space for them, it’s like, okay, how do we get them to a point where they are so rooted in their values that they are bringing along their friends and their families along with them because they are gonna be the ones that will have to– They have the best relationships with their friends and families. And so how are they moving folks to come along with, with us, right? Along with us, um, especially as we’re thinking about, um, this larger movement that I, you know, I, I just know a better world is possible. And so I’m like, how are we bringing them with us to really see that? Um, because we have only known, like, um, there’s this, like, Instagram post about how, like, millennials always hold up the peace sign, but we’ve never known peace. And I laugh about that all the time because I’m like, it’s true, you know? Like, when we graduated, you know, I graduated in 2012. I’m like, oh, we had a recession. It was so hard to find a job, and then Trump became president in 2016, and then we had the pandemic. You know? So it’s just, like, back-to-back crisis. And so I am ready for the dreaming up, the spaciousness to hone in and on all the things that we’ve done really well and, like, to just keep doing it better and, like- Make sure that, you know, our, our young people really also get to help us co-create, co-design what this work looks like moving forward too, right? ‘Cause we know it’s not just gonna stay static. Like, it has to shift, right? So I’m, like, excited about those conversations because I, I just, I know that we can do things better, and I want to be able to get there. Um, and then the last piece I’ll share is, um, I think potentially having, like, a Hmong woman in Congress, um, I, I always think about, and I think sometimes, like, folks in our community, um, forget about the refugee experience of, like- Coming here, um, our parents having to hide in the jungles of Laos for years, going to refugee camps in Thailand and other parts of Southeast Asia, and having to also be in those refugee camps for years before actually coming, uh, to, you know, the US, Australia, other parts of the world. And I think people forget about that, and, like, I think a lot about, like, us just being one generation removed from being refugees, being in the jungles of Laos, and, like, how, like, what happens when war, you know, displaces our communities and forces us to really make hard choices. And so I’m also, like, leaning into a better world is possible because we have, uh, the potential to elect a Hmong woman to Congress, um, and that she will get to represent one of two, uh, of the largest Hmong American populations, uh, in, in the country and, um, how exciting that is. And, um, she’s also, like, a colleague, you know, one of the, uh, Mai Vue, you know, is, is also one of the, um, founding, uh, or- organizers of HIP too. So I, I just feel like what a… Like, it’s been so long, you know? Like, change doesn’t happen overnight. Um, and I’m like what a full circle moment, I think, to be here, um, to be able to witness that growth and also the transition of, like, how we see power, how we wanna wield power, how we wanna co-govern. And, uh, I, I feel like that is the path forward, and I’m really excited about exploring what this also means for our young people to be engaged long-term and, like, to help them also build that resiliency of, like, well, how can we get to this better world? Um, and I’m, I’m, like, excited about, like, what that looks like and to have that spaciousness.   [00:21:08] Miko Lee: And Farah, I wonder if, one, if you have thoughts about what Nancy’s talking about. Uh, the original question was about historic moments in this race, but it can also be about what has ASATA been working on during this election time.    [00:21:22] Farah Mahesri: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so in terms of historic moments, I, both with my ASATA hat on and just as a Muslim woman, I have to talk about Abdulrahman Muhammad El-Sayed. Like, that race, um- In how energizing it is and, like, you know, representation isn’t everything, and the first Muslim senator, a progressive at that, and someone who fought really hard for that, um, and overcame just an extraordinary amount of Islamophobia, not just from the right, but also from the left. Like, the Democratic leadership spew a lot of Islamophobic comments all along the way, and to get… so I just wa- I have to take a moment to just, like, that is a historic win that I’m excited for. Um, the other historic win that I wanna plug is, um, Peggy Flanagan in Minnesota. Um, you know, Native representation, incredible leader, and her speech saying, “We will rip ICE apart.” I just, I have played that one on a loop to just be like, yes, that is what we are doing. We are winning power to do this. Nithya Rahman just declared this morning LA, um, city mayor, uh, South Asian, again, progressive, right? This was a, like, progressive race. It was a progressive challenger, is someone who’s saying that just being a Democrat isn’t enough. Just being slightly left of center isn’t enough. We are– we, our communities deserve more than that. That to me is really exciting. Again, with my ASATA hat on, one of the things that, again, I, I just, like, have to talk about is Texas, right? Like, the flip of Texas, um, and just the amount of AAPI and South Asian organizing that has happened in Texas to make that possible. I remember being in Texas in 2023, not that long ago, working on what would it take to flip Texas, and I was talking to some family members and they were like, “This is, this is a ridiculous conversation. I cannot believe that someone sent you here to Texas to talk about Texas going blue. It’s not gonna happen in our lifetimes.” And three years later we’ve seen that happen. But as Nancy, as you were talking about, you know, you’re gonna lose along the way and that these are long battles, and part of what we’re doing in, in all of this work is building, building that resiliency as we go to understand that, like, we are gonna win some, and there are gonna be some nights that are like, like we had on Tuesday, but more often than not we’re gonna have kind of the experiences we’ve had, unfortunately, over the last 10-plus years. And that resiliency to get up the next day and be like, “Great, we put everything we had on the table and it didn’t go our way, and so the only thing we can do is get up and try harder,” that, again, I think is what fills me with hope, and it, you know, is so core about organizing. And then the one last thing that I would wanna talk about, which is also very core to what ASATA Power does and what ASATA, our sister organization, also does, we are an anti-imperial, anti-war organization. You know, again, Nancy speaking to what you did, like refugee experiences, displacement from war, all of the things that happen because of war, and this really to me was an anti-war election. It’s an anti-war victory, and that is both against foreign wars, the war in Iran, the genocide in Gaza, and also the war against our own people. This was a repudiation of ICE, right? And over and over again people are gonna try to convince us that it was just about the gas prices, and I’m like, no, it was about us seeing violence, our state, our government inflicting the most unimaginable amount of violence against our people And the fact that we sat up and said, “Absolutely not,” in the most, like, unequivocal, like, these results were so seismic that they can’t even pretend to rig it. Like, there was no attempt to, like, counter some of these things. And I think over and over again, we need to s- remind ourselves of that. And again, particularly in California, they sent an ice surge our way to have a chilling effect, to intimidate our communities, to s- quote, unquote, “Try to send a message.” And we collectively were like, “Absolutely not.” And some of the stories I heard from canvassing teams up and down California were that, like, door rates, knock rates were better than they have been despite the fear in the community, that more people were going out. There was kind of this like, you’re gonna try to tell… you’re gonna try to take this away from us, and absolutely not. And same stories up and down Texas and some of these other communities, right? Where it was like the goal was try to, like, scare us into silence, and the fact that this is a moment where we said absolutely not, and we will not stand for this violence. We will not stand for it here, we will not stand for it elsewhere. That story’s… That narrative, that story, that reality is trying to be suppressed. They’re trying to, like, take that away from us, and again, I see more… O- over and over again, people being like, “Absolutely not. We know, we know what we voted for, and we’re not, we’re not shying away from that.”   [00:26:47] Miko Lee: Because you’re bringing up our resilience and the impact that ICE has had on our community, I, I wanna share a personal story. Both ASATA and HIP have worked on this campaign with Apex Express called We Belong Here, and it was based around two of our, um, people whose partners were being deported, one of whom, uh, Mohan Karki, was actually deported. And his wife, Tika, sent a text, and she said it was okay to read this. And I just wanted to share this because, um, you know, uh, I think both of you know the story, and I can link our past shows that we’ve done interviews with Tika, um, in our show notes, because her husband was deported. She had a baby. He never got to meet that baby. Um, that baby is three years old now, and he has never had a chance to even hold her. Tika said, “Finally, people are speaking up. My heart is full of emotions. Seeing people stand up for what they believe in gives me hope. Families have been separated, homes have been broken, and so many people have lived with fear, uncertainty, and tears in their eyes. Behind every immigrant family is a story, a dream, and a heart that only wants a better future. We are human beings, and every family deserves compassion, dignity, and the chance to live without fear. This is bigger than politics for me. It’s about families, children, love, and humanity. I pray that no more children have to grow up missing a parent because of circumstances beyond their control.” So I just wanted to share that with you all because as we’re talking about these impacts and people standing up and, and all of the people that work with ASATA and HIP going out and knocking on doors, just f- doing that and going out and voting and, and being there in the community, standing up against ICE, accompanying people to, you know, hearings that they may have, um, protecting them, providing food for them if they can’t leave the house, it’s having an impact.   [00:28:50] Farah Mahesri: Thank you for bringing that into this conversation, Miko. And I think that’s one of the things I’ve also heard from organizers i- over the last day and a half, is that the duality of like, yes, there is this victory, and also there is just profound sadness because people are continuing to be hurt. And, you know, we heard about ICE surges yesterday. You know, we’ve heard the concerns about retaliation attacks that are happening, that may happen. And so it is one of these like the election results are full of hope for what is possible, and our day-to-day still is about the actual humans, our actual neighbors, our siblings, are still actively being hurt. And that practice that we have of like, and, and getting up and showing up in solidarity and support for each other    [00:29:39] Miko Lee: Ooh. Um, I wanna, I wanna go back and talk a little bit more about the historic nature of this midterms, um, and some of the things, uh, Farah and Nancy, that you both named. I’m really struck when you talked about, uh, Michigan and El-Sayed’s race, about the amount of money. The Islamophobia was hideous, the MAGA backing crazy, and the amount of money that went in against him from AIPAC was crazy-making. And w- him winning, you know, the power that we fought back against that MAGA money and were able to do that in those cases is pretty remarkable. And I think to the point, Nancy, you keep talking about is those candidates do that thing that we’re seeing Mamdani do all the time, which is not just saying, “Oh, Trump is bad, Trump is bad,” but saying, “This is what we could do,” and real things. You know, we can provide healthcare for our… Like, real, concrete things. So I’m wondering if you two have thoughts on real concrete things that the progressives, because there’s a big number of progressives. I mean, the progressive squad, as we call them , has tripled in size. So what are some things, not just the Democrats with a D that, you know, are just spouting party lines, but progressives can actually do with this change?   [00:31:07] Farah Mahesri: Before we get into that, can I just say one thing? And I think that that is California-based groups have a real honest conversation about where California is at this moment, because we are looking at historic wins across the country except in California. We are seeing these campaigns where people push back against billionaires everywhere else, in Texas, in Michigan, in, I mean, in Kansas, in Iowa, but not in California billion-    [00:31:39] Miko Lee: I was so gonna ask about this, because the billionaire tax in both California and San Francisco this last election- Yeah … have failed. What’s up with that?    [00:31:47] Farah Mahesri: Yeah.    [00:31:47] Miko Lee: Why aren’t we getting the messaging right around the billionaires?    [00:31:50] Farah Mahesri: And I, I, you know, again, I think that it is California. California absolutely sided with billionaires at the state level. In San Francisco, you know, for all of the progressive wins that we saw, we saw a devastating loss in Connie Chan, and we will feel that loss of leadership in Congress. Um, you know, we saw other propositions that were backed by billionaires, by the crypto bros, like pass this cycle, have in California in the past as well. And so one of the things I think we do need to do is a very honest conversation about the state of organizing, progressive organizing in California, and that they need to also happen door to door to door, and the organizing work has to happen, and what would it look like for us- To have had progressive wins in California at the level that we saw elsewhere in the country, we really could have reshaped The future of this country as we know it, um, and we just, we didn’t, and we’re falling asleep on that. And so I also wanna answer the question of, like, what are some of those demands? ‘Cause I think some of that will have to start with California getting organized, and being like, if we want progressive wins, not just like somewhat lefty Democratic wins, but like actual wins, there is a lot of work to be done here in California.   [00:33:13] Nancy Xiong: I love that you brought that up because I feel like as much as I want to celebrate that, oh, we’re at the forefront, we’re doing this and this, I’m like, why are we still voting the way that we’re voting, you know? It’s not matching up, and it’s really making me so angry because it feels like we’re saying a bunch of things, but we’re not backing it up with progressive policies. And I don’t want… As much as I am celebrating and having so much hope, I’m like, oh my gosh, we still have so much work to do, you know, um, in our state. And as I’m thinking about the Central Valley, I’m like, I, again, back to like I can’t wait to see who and what, you know, like who voted for what and, like, what region. I am really excited about doing that deeper dive of, like, what is happening, like, what has changed, and a lot of it is, like, the narrative piece, right? Um, and like what are we saying and not saying that is not moving folks. And then also if this narrative is centered around, like, you know, gas prices going up, I’m like, are we, are, are we still not angry enough? Is, is, is the gas prices not high enough that you are- aren’t reacting the way that you ought to be, right? And so I think it is going to be, um, yeah, like just that spaciousness to look and d- dig a little bit deeper of, like, what is actually happening because… And also, like, re- I think really, uh, because even as I’m thinking about, like, the national landscape, I think oftentimes, like, even just our national funders, like, they don’t wanna fund California ’cause they’re like, California has it. You know, they don’t gotta worry about the progressive vote, you know? And I think it, this is a good reminder of, like, we are saying these things, but, like, it is not being reflected in our policies. And so I think that we really have to go back and look at our organizing infrastructure and who we’re talking to and, like, what narratives are out there that are not moving us in the direction that we really wanna be moving to. So I really appreciate that you brought that up because I think it’s hella important, and also I really need folks to also understand that there’s still so much work and that we are constantly contesting for power because of it, right? And so it’s like what do we need to do to get better? And we really do need to get our together Um, to be able to, to like really live what we are preaching and like really telling our communities. Because right now, like that is not the case, and I’m very upset about it. And then I’m also like, okay, what next? So that we can really get to what we need to get to.    [00:36:02] Farah Mahesri: I love that. And I, I think for me some of it is the specificity on our demands. And like if we’re not angry enough, then we aren’t paying enough attention. I think the specificity of our demands is such an important conversation because our demands aren’t to win power in halls of Congress so that people can chair committees and say they’re part of the majority. Like that’s not, that’s not what we are, and that’s not why we’re electing such fiery, passionate people that our communities are demanding. We want to see ICE abolished. We don’t wanna check on their power. We w- don’t want them to be nicer. We do not want them to have better warrants. We want to see this apparatus that has only existed for about 20 years abolished. We want pathways for all of our community members to be here, to be here safely, securely, and permanently, right? And this builds on a lot of work ASATA has done lifting up the state of undocumented South Asians, right? We need to break through these narratives that immigration fights only affect one community. It is everyone. All of us know people who are directly impacted, who are having to hide in the shadows. I’ll say it, we want an abolishment of the electoral college, right? Like we are done playing this game, this idea that year after year, election after election our president is, one person can win the popular vote and someone else gets to make the policies. Like w- I’m mad enough, right? Like, we want universal healthcare, and if California california should, has been talking about universal healthcare f- longer than any other state, and if another state, if Iowa beats us to it, then, then I will, like the amount of anger in me, right? Like, this is the kind of stuff, and even when we looked at the ballots, the propositions on California for us this year, like beyond the billionaires tax, like where were our propositions? Where were those like fiery, like how were we fighting for those things? I don’t know a single person on any side of any political sway who doesn’t agree that the healthcare system in the United States is completely nonsensical and does not work. And so w- that is up to us to organize our communities to be like, “No, just because we live in California doesn’t mean that we have to accept the status quo,” and this like fear-mongering that we do ourselves in California of like, “Well, at least we’re not Texas. At least we’re not the…” I’m like, no, we are California, and we have our own problems, and we’re not facing up to them, and we’re not solving them    [00:38:44] Nancy Xiong: Yes to everything. We really have to think about all aspects of our lives, and also, like, how interconnected it is to each other. And, like, we have to demand more. These can no longer be just conversations, you know? And so it’s like, how do we actually get it to the point where it is happening? And I think that is where I’m like double downing with my team about this, right? It’s we have to be on the same page about what it is that we are telling our young people, and, like, really helping them to also imagine a world where these things can happen. I feel like we’ve just been on survival mode, right? And so it’s like, oh, the day-to-day, maybe next year. But I think that it’s just been impossible for them to imagine, like, what five, 10 years could look like. And when I think about that, right, for myself starting in 2012, I’m like, oh my gosh, like, it’s been over a decade already, you know? Um, and it still feels like nothing has changed really, you know? And so it’s gonna require, like, all of us, and I’m really… Like, that is where I’m like we will need the space to really dream up, to really align our policies, align what is it that we want to see, or else we are not gonna win anything and we’re gonna keep seeing this trend of billionaires winning and having their opposition-backed policies win. And so it’s like, how do we get past that? I’m like, this is enough already, right? And so being able to, I think, have that shared visioning is gonna be really important. And so I’m like, yeah, let’s have these conversations moving forward so that we can dream and also think about it a little bit further to get to that place, right? I loved what you shared, ’cause I’m like, yes, that is exactly. Are we envisioning what those shared values and shared policies will look like moving forward?    [00:40:30] Farah Mahesri: I love that. Can I add one more thing? I did also wanna say we are also anti-flock, and we need these flock cameras gone as, like, progressive agenda items. But I think the other thing, and this gets into the data piece that I’m, like, so thirsty for, is getting down the disaggregated data on how much our specific communities move. So as a South Asian organizing community, one of the things we often say is like, yeah, we’ve got progressives, we’ve got Mamdani, but we also have Vivek. And part of what I’m curious about in this election is to get the final breakdown of, you know, the tentative numbers show that there was, like, at least a 12-point shift in AAPI voters to the left. So breaking some of that down, seeing who moved. Like, who voted Republican last time? Who enabled the Viveks to exist? How many of them moved this time, and then how are we going to keep them, right? Because so many of our communities- We are seeing, like, they will vote back and forth. They will switch parties. They will kind of… They’re looking for someone to see them and hear them, right? They are looking for someone to take our pain, our struggles, our day-to-day experiences seriously, and they’ll go from this party to that party, and like, how do we wanna see it? And so I think part of our work now is to get all the people who are, who are angry, who are pissed off, if they’re not angry enough, if they’re still voting in with the billionaires here in California, to grab them, and then to keep pulling them to the left, not because we want the power, but because we know that these policies that benefit us all is the pathway to our liberation, is the pathway to making sure that all of us are cared for, and that there aren’t this promise of, like, solutions in the private market that, like, we can fix our schools through privatization, that we can fix Social Security through privatization, that we can fix medical care through pri- All of that is false. And that the only way we can do it is to collectivize it and to take care of each other, and that is, Nancy, as you said, like, I don’t think that we’re actually winning in that all the time. And we have to do it more. We have to get to every single one of our community members. We have to make the pitches. We have to understand why, why we aren’t winning those. And not just win them once, but win them and hold onto them for the, for the long battle, for, for, for those moments even when we lose, to know that they will stay with us the next time we get up and try again.    [00:43:01] Miko Lee: So I think I hear you both saying we need to get in formation, pull our people together, keep them all together with us, and build our own, like, project 2030 or 2035. What we want, a vision of a better world without data centers and Flock and the prison industrial complex and ICE and Medicare for all and, uh, childcare and public education and the dreams of the world that we wanna see. And let’s build it. We have to do some coalition building, and we gotta build it because one of the things I will take away from the election is that I do really, truly feel there are more people on our side, that that’s the vision that they want for themselves and their families. That straight up they want to have good schools and safe neighborhoods and community that they could count on. I wanna one, ask you one quick question because we do have a bunch of close races that are going on. What are the races we are closely watching and why that haven’t been called yet? Nancy, I know you got a couple because H.I.P has been working two of the major campaigns y’all have been working on are too close to call.    [00:44:15] Nancy Xiong: We have definitely Mai Vang’s race in Sacramento. It- it’s too close to call and I am also… Y- you know, I think part of it is, like, I’m also assuring myself ’cause I know I have a lot of anxiety about it, you know? And I’m like- You– I can’t spiral ’cause if I spiral right now, I’m gonna feel like, oh, there is no, no more hope. And so it’s like, okay, we have to trust the process, and that we will get our updates, and we will have these continuous conversations, especially with, you know, our, our internal folks about this too. And so watching that very closely, uh, we’ll have another update tomorrow. And so I’m just hoping that it is in the direction that we want it to be. And then Deep Singh, who’s running in Fresno for city council, he was down, and then he was up, I think, like maybe 16 votes or something. And    [00:45:05] Miko Lee: so- 16 votes. Yesterday it was 16 votes. Yeah. See, this is the thing is when people think their vote doesn’t matter.    [00:45:11] Nancy Xiong: Doesn’t matter. I know. Yeah. And, um, I’ll, I’ll be honest, I’m like, there’s some things on the ballot that I’m like, I don’t know, like, uh, I, I, I think part of it is like folks want to vote for everything or do something perfectly. And I think a big part of, like, what I’m learning in my own, like, journey of, like, voting… Like, there’s some candidates on my list that I’m like, “Uh, I, I, I don’t wanna vote for anyone ’cause I don’t, I don’t trust them,” you know? And so even if they are– they say that they’re Dems, I’m like, no, you’re, you’re pretty, like, on the right of it, you know? And so just even things like that that I’m, like, learning as a voter, it’s like it doesn’t have to be done perfectly, you know? And so, yeah, I’m, I’m excited for Deep’s campaign. I’m, like, watching it closely. Uh, I know, uh, Ariana, who is the other person that we were also supporting in Fresno, I think they called it already, and so she’s in. And so we’re just really excited about what that looks like for Fresno. They need to have progre- progressive candidates on city council. And just already having those, like, relationships too, uh, with these candidates. And again, like, it doesn’t stop there, right? So it’s like, how do we hold them accountable? And I’ve been talking to, like, our local partners about, like, I just want to have this phase of our organizing where we are just seeing the things that we wanna see and getting done in each of our regions and being able to… I think really inspire our young people, right? It’s like these are the material goods that can come out, and that folks are listening, and that there are still adults, you know, that care about, you know, our young people. And so I am, like, leaning into that spirit, um, and but also not coining it too, you know, because I’m like, I think that we need to find our own path in California. Uh, and this path is gonna be what we design together. And so I’m, like, excited about what that means.    [00:47:00] Miko Lee: Thanks, Nancy. Farah, what about you? Are there, are there races that you all are keeping your fingers crossed about?   [00:47:07] Farah Mahesri: Yeah. I think, uh, ASATA Power does endorsements, and from our endorsements slate, the race that hasn’t been called yet is Aziz Akbari, who’s running in Fremont City Council District 4. Again, one of those interesting races where a lot of the Islamophobia came out. Uh, it is one of those places also, races where it was like, on paper it was all, like, all left-leaning folks, all Asians, but this is where we have to get to, like, you have to hear the candidates. You have to hear what their vision is. You have to understand that there is kind of difference in what we’re wanting. The other thing, though, I wanted to say is that I know I’ve, like, you know, complained a little bit about California, and the one thing that I- I’m really, really proud of is the way California does elections Right? We have made it so easy to vote that my mind cannot comprehend some of the scenes that we’ve seen around the country. I’m like, I have my ballot, it got sent to me. We have created so many pathways and so many opportunities, and have eased up on the way that all of the ways that people can vote. I wanna pull us away from this idea that it’s taking a long time for these election results to come out, or that these, some of these races are too close to call, because I actually think California does elections right. We aren’t in a hurry to see what the results are, that we are having these results come out in batches in an orderly fashion. They’re not being done for the headline or the rush. And so I think there are a lot of races up and down the state of California that we’re still keeping an eye on, and they’re still really hopeful for, because we are doing elections right, because we’ve made it so easy for people to vote, and we’ve taken away that sense of the artificial deadlines and those pieces. And so I just wanted to put it, like, California’s not… We’re siding a little too much with the billionaires, but we are doing democracy remarkably well.    [00:48:56] Miko Lee: Oh, thank you for lifting that up. Okay, my very last question is a silly question, which is, is there an internet meme that has been going through your mind? There’s all these people hope scrolling and, you know, woke is back, blue tsunami, blue-nami. Is there a meme that has, like, struck you in the last couple of days?    [00:49:18] Farah Mahesri: I think my favorite one is the one about, like, why is it taking so long to count the votes in Mississippi? And someone responded, “It’s because they have to say Mississippi after every number.” Um, that continuously cracks me up.    [00:49:32] Nancy Xiong: I love that. Maybe there’s not so much memes, but, like, I think the storytelling of candidates have gotten really powerful. Like, in the way that it’s like they are realizing that whatever they went through as, like, a chi- young child to, like, you know, adulthood, it’s not s- seen as, like… I feel like when you’re running, you’re always, like, looking through your history and trying to figure out, like, what, you know, what is a good story, what is a bad story, what can they use against you? And I think folks are just, like, taking ownership of their story and, like, how that story has made them who they are today, and not seeing it as a weakness. And so thinking about, like, Amy Acton, thinking about all the folks that, you know, grew up with single mothers and, um, w- violent, you know, fathers, you know, and, like, being able to come from, uh, come up from that, like- It’s been really, um, I think inspiring because I always tell my team, you know, that I need you to tell your story. I need you to own it. I need you to use it as a superpower because, like, it doesn’t define who you are right now. Like, you still get to decide that every single day. And so I think being able to see that vulnerability makes me really happy because then I feel like, oh, I’m not also alone in, in this world of like, you know, growing up in the Central Valley, right? And like how the stories and the, that they share are, I think, really… I feel really inspired ’cause I’m like, wow, people are actually talking about, like, real issues that they lived through and not just hiding from them. To be able to get to this point, I’m like, okay, we are seeing each other as humans and not just these perfect candidates that we are expecting people to be when they run. So I think just the humanizing of, of folks have been really inspiring, and I’m like, okay, I’m gonna tell my story now, and more. You know, like, I want to tell more of it now, too.    [00:51:20] Miko Lee: Ooh, what a great way to end it. Thank you so much, Nancy and Farah, for joining me and talking about, uh, an election reflection. Appreciate you. I’ll put links to both of your organizations in our show notes so people can find out more about how they can get involved and get active. Thank you so much. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight’s show was produced by me Miko Lee, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night. The post APEX Express – 11.12.26 – Election Reflection appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Hema Holistic Mystic Introducing new APEX Express Producer Hema G, whose show Hema Holistic Mystic airs tonight. Hema is an intuitive healer,psychic andmedium, hosting a live call in show. Exploring the Mystical, Healing the Human, Awakening the Soul What if there’s more to life than what we can see, touch, or explain? What if our intuition, spiritual gifts, and capacity for healing are far greater than we’ve been led to believe? Welcome to Hema Holistic Mystic, a soulful, thought-provoking, and sometimes delightfully unconventional journey into the mysteries of consciousness, spirituality, and the human experience. Hosted by Hema, a spiritual mentor, intuitive healer, and lifelong explorer of the mystical, the show dives into topics ranging from psychic abilities, channeling, and mediumship to energy healing, trauma awareness, ancient wisdom traditions, and personal transformation.   With warmth, curiosity, humor, and a grounded approach to spirituality, Hema bridges the mystical and the practical, inviting listeners to question their assumptions, explore their own intuitive gifts, and discover new possibilities for healing and growth. And this isn’t just a show to listen to — it’s a show to participate in! Call in live to share your questions, explore personal challenges, receive intuitive guidance, or experience a live healing session with Hema. Whether you’re a seasoned spiritual seeker, a curious skeptic, or simply someone navigating the beautiful messiness of being human, Hema Holistic Mystic offers a welcoming space for exploration, connection, and transformation. Come curious. Leave inspired. And perhaps discover a little magic within yourself. The post APEX Express – 11.5.2026 Hema Holistic Mystic, Exploring the Mystical appeared first on KPFA.

Explore APSC’s My Family Audio Series A story-driven 3-part audio project about Cambodian, Hmong, Laotian, Vietnamese, and other Southeast Asian families doing everything possible to breathe with ease and live freely besides the people we love. Created by the Asian Prisoner Support Committee and APEX Express, and hosted by writer and activist Michelle MiJung Kim, My Family seeks to answer many of the questions countless families in our communities are grappling with today. Mass deportation and family separation are fueled by isolation and silence. Wit h My Family, we aim to dismantle both with stories full of heart, compassion, and an honest look at the tangled paths many of us take to reckon with the past, rebuild our lives, and make a new place home. Our deep gratitude extends to all the community members who shared their stories with us, even while painful to recount. Their commitment to creating stronger, more informed communities is unparalleled. My Family Ep. 3: What happens after deportation?  In our third and final episode, we look at what happens when our loved ones get deported. Where do they go? What happens to those who remain? And, what can we do? We’ll hear again from Elijah Chhum, who leads New Light Wellness, and T and NC, who you met in episodes 1 and 2. We also spoke with P, who was deported to Southeast Asia earlier this year.  Music from episode 2, as well as related resources, can be found below in the show notes. If you are an impacted community member in California or have a family member who is directly impacted by detention and deportation, we encourage you to contact APSC at [email protected] or our partners at New Light Wellness and the Center for Empowering Refugees and Immigrants.    Music: Mae by Satiya Original composition by Joe Sin and the Angkor Wat Band. Joe is a Khmer elder and community leader in Oakland   Resources: My Family Episode 3 discussion guide  APSC Data Report on Incarcerated and Formerly Incarcerated Asians and Pacific Islanders Asian Law Caucus legal resources and video explainers for Southeast Asians facing deportation threats USC Equity Research Institute analysis on ICE arrests of Asian and Pacific Islander Californians We Are California: Hmong History and Cultural Studies   Transcript [00:00:00]  Michelle MiJung Kim: Hello. Welcome to “My Family,” a project by the Asian Prisoner Support Committee and APEX Express. I’m your host, Michelle MiJung Kim. If you’re just tuning in, I invite you to check out our earlier episodes. We’ll tag them in the show notes along with the transcripts, and you can find them at kpfa.org/program/apex-express/ or [00:01:00] asianprisonersupport.com/myfamily. Through the stories and voices of Southeast Asian American families, you’ll hear about how people are fighting for their loved ones, for families pushing back against the cruelty of being torn apart and being threatened because of who they are   Today, our final episode of this three-part series, we’re looking at what happens when our loved ones get deported. Where do they go? What happens to those who remain? And what can we do? Because it’s our final episode, I wanna express our immense gratitude to all the impacted community members and community caretakers who shared their time, lived experiences, and hearts with us.   Elijah, P, Roger, T, Tony, NC, and Pam, thank you. For our listeners, we know that many of the stories shared in “My Family” may be painful to hear. We wanna acknowledge that it [00:02:00] is also painful for people to talk about. It takes a lot to share what people have gone through and what they’re enduring right now.   Still, they chose to share because it’s so important to them that their community and other families know, even when it comes at a personal cost. P, T, Tony, NC, and Pam, thank you. There aren’t enough words to express our gratitude and admiration. A content warning for our listeners that in this episode, we talk about war and genocide, depression, and family separation.   We’ll return after a short break    that was “Mae,” a song by Cambodian Australian singer and songwriter [00:03:00] Satiya. It’s a thank you song to mothers who care for their kids in times of danger. Today, we’re gonna start with NC, who you met in our earlier episodes. As some listeners know, the history of many ethnic groups and tribes in Asia, including the Lahu, Min, and Hmong, have been marked by repeated displacement and separation.   It’s important history as we grapple with what is happening today. Around 300 years ago, many ethnic groups, including Hmong people, were forced to flee due to oppression and persecution in their homeland in China. They sought safety in the highlands of Southeast Asia, that’s where NC’s family settled too, in Laos.   Then, during the Vietnam War, the CIA recruited tens of thousands of Hmong boys and men in Laos, including members of NC’s family, to fight in a covert campaign known as the Secret War. Here’s NC    NC (pseudonym): the history was that, [00:04:00] was some kind of war going on and the Americans has enlisted the Hmong people and they somehow they promised the Hmong people that if things didn’t go the right way, they would, help them.   They would move them to a different place. So that’s when, all the people left, all the people that was involved in it. ‘Cause not all the Hmong people were involved, but all the, all the, the Hmong people that, that was involved in it, they would fled because the war was over, ’cause the US just got up and left   Michelle MiJung Kim: NC’s mom was pregnant with him as their world fell apart. While some Hmong chose to stay in Laos, NC’s parents decided to flee by crossing the Mekong River into Thailand. NC was born in a refugee camp there, But again, this could not last. as part of the United Nations Refugee Resettlement Program, NC’s family traveled to the US, first in Long Beach and then Stockton, hoping that this was their final move.   But last [00:05:00] year, after earning parole, NC was deported to Laos, a shock to his family. Here’s NC again    NC (pseudonym): my family don’t believe that it was gonna happen ‘ cause we’ve been in the country for I think, 40, almost 50 years, they don’t think it was gonna happen. They think it was just a process that I just had to go through. they didn’t believe it, and when I actually, got sent here, they, almost everybody was shocked, like I was telling my family, like my family, they look at me, they say you and your brother, you guys are the same thing.   You guys grew up here. The only difference is he has a piece of paper saying that, he’s a citizen and you don’t. Everything is the same,” ‘Cause they were telling me I don’t know nothing about Laos or Thailand or I don’t even know the language, the customs, or any of that stuff.   You know, when I came here, I was only about one year old.   Even though I’ve done my time and I paid my debt to society and I bettered myself I may not be a US citizen, but I am an American through and through because [00:06:00] America is me.   I, I’m a American boy with American cultures even though I maybe my ethnicity may be Hmong. I don’t know any other, culture other than, you know, my culture in America and my, uh,heritage culture as Hmong. That’s it. So,um, when I come to Laos, it’s just shocking and I, never been to Thailand so I don’t know any of that stuff.   And then when my family, my family was like shocked, very, very shocked to even see me in the situation,   Michelle MiJung Kim: NC told us that when ICE put him on the plane, there were dozens of other Hmong, Laotian, Vietnamese, and Indian community members. Journalists tracking ICE flights have shared that these flights are getting longer. Flights to Asian countries may stop in four, five, or even seven countries.   Some people have told us they were on the plane for over 44 hours. People are shackled at the wrists and ankles for the entire flight, a practice that ICE started in [00:07:00] 2012. On NC’s flight, hundreds of people and their families were being ripped apart at the very same time, going through the same shock that overwhelmed NC and his family.   For T, it’s been a journey of emotions. With help, he’s been able to pull out of the darkest moments. His wife and one of his daughters are with him now. He also works for New Light Wellness in Phnom Penh.   The team there just opened a community center specifically designed for people who have been deported from the US.   I’ll turn it over to T to tell his story.   T (pseudonym): my name is T, and I am here in Siem Reap, Cambodia. I’m originally from, uh, San Diego, California, and been here about six years now, and I’m one of the staff for New Light Wellness, one of outreach staff, and uh, trying to, uh,build our center.   And help and reach out and help as many brother and sister we can to make their life a little easier when they landed here in Cambodia.   when I got here [00:08:00] and when, my wife and my daughter was going through their thing in the State I was here, like, very stressed, worried about them, and I’m over here…   I, i’m by myself too here. You know, I, and I’m stressing, and then I, I got a job where I work as a bartender and, you know, uh, getting paid $100, $180 a month working, like, 10, 11 hours a day, Monday to Saturday. And, uh,and then on top of that I’m worried about my wife, Even though I only made, like, $180 a month, I still sent some money to my wife because they were short on money   and, and, There’s so many nights, that I, I just drink like a bunch of beer just to go to sleep.  I feel like I’m at peace when I’m sleeping. And then when I wake up, I feel like the stress come back on and, you know,stress for the whole day again.   T (pseudonym): it’s like for a couple years like that. I just drank myself to sleep, and I feel comfortable when I’m sleeping because, when you’re sleeping you, you’re not thinking about nothing. You’re not stressed about nothing. And then when I wake up, here we go again. [00:09:00] Even though I have to go to work, it just, it’s just crazy.   I just worry. Yeah, I, I, in my life I never, stress like that and be sad like that. Wow. But my brain is still okay right now currently.   Well, s- like I said, some deportee might, might have family and relative here in Cambodia, maybe they’ll, a little bit easy for them, but some may not have family or, or, or, and no one. You know, uh, New Light, we, we offer, Help with, mental health or if someone just needed to talk to or, or a place where if they feel lonely they can go to the center and just kick back and relax over there, read a book or, or, or do…   clear your mind. A place where you can clear your mind.   Us three, we kn- we went through- things here that what, you know, where, where,to ask question, where to go, uh,like for example, like,a lot of us, we don’t read Khmer.   some of us barely speak Khmer properly and, it’s hard to get a document here, too, if you don’t know how to read and write Khmer. So you, you, you gonna need help with that.   even my [00:10:00] youngest daughter right here, right now, she’s- She’s not used to the culture here, she’s scared every time she go outside and, and it’s hot, and she can’t take the heat. always feel like passing out every time you go out there. And, uh,she, she wants to go to college when she get her high school diploma, and that’s the thing that I, I don’t, I’m not, I don’t even know what to do, I don’t know what to do. trying to figure something out, or I don’t know how I’m gonna do this, ’cause my wife and my daughter we ain’t got a home. We don’t even have money to save.   We can’t even save money here , you know, because-   T (pseudonym): the pay rate, is little,   even though they’re here, I’m happy, but there’s another worry now because we need to find some sort of good job with some good pay rate where she could save and have money to, buy a plane ticket and get back to the state and find a place to rent or something like that.   So basically, uh, yes, I’m still worried about them, and yeah, my wife, she’s working on it, and I am doing the best I can too,    uh, I just want to say is please, the family in the State, [00:11:00] support your loved one when they get here as much as you can with words or with anything, so that, that’s all I have to say. But it, it might seem little, little things you ask for, but it means a lot to that person. It, it, it means a lot. That’s, that’s all I could say because little things, can mean a lot here, because that person when they’re here, they already, at a loss, at a loss, and they, trying to figure things out.   That’s the hard part, trying to figure the things out and trying to, uh, learn everything. Like, you’re, you’re, like, you’re just born again and trying to learn this new place and, uh, it, it’s tough. it’s tough. But, that’s all I got to say,    the advice I can give You know, your family, especially in the state, When you first land here a- a- a- and stuff like that, uh, your family needs, in the state need to give, encouragement, support uh, connect with that person encourage each other, uplift each other, because it’s   Here it’s like you don’t know no one when you get here. Like, you don’t know no one, but, it, the family support is very [00:12:00] important from the state, so that would help that person to be more stronger while they’re trying to navigate to figure out how and what and where, what they gonna do here, so family support is very important from the state. It makes that person feel you’re not alone.    just even a call will make that person happy, you know?Even a call, just, “Hey, how are you doing? is everything all right? What is…” You know, just,it makes that person feel like you’re not alone. Look, we’re here with you, even just that is very important because I know how, uh, it feel when, uh, you don’t, really have any family support, when you’re here by yourself.   So I hope Vietnam and Laos and everywhere else has a organization like that-    T (pseudonym): that help ease, help ease the pain. And like I said, for the families that interstate and have your, like I said, your son or, or your, your daughter or whatever, your brother and sister getting, about to get deported just, just care for them and tell them they’ll be all right, and go on from there.   Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:13:00] As T said, what New Light Wellness is doing in Cambodia doesn’t yet exist in places like Vietnam or Laos, or really anywhere else. After a short break, we’ll talk to Elijah Chhum, who started this work first in California. We’re gonna hear a song from Joe Sin and the Angkor Wat Band. Joe is a Khmer elder and a community leader in Oakland.    Welcome back. That was Joe Sin and the Angkor Wat Band. The best way to introduce our next guest, Elijah, [00:14:00] is to share what T said. He told us that just the way Elijah speaks makes him calm down and relaxes him.   He said, “Elijah makes me feel like I have somebody that believes in me, thinks that I’m a strong person, that I could go through this.”    Elijah Chhum: My name is Elijah Chhum, the executive director of New Light Wellness. I use he/they pronouns, based here in Oakland, California, and we do work transnationally in Southeast Asia as well. and so our work is also held in Cambodia and hoping to expand in Laos and Vietnam.   The story of me joining the anti-deportation movement, supporting Southeast Asian families, and really supporting communities in our healing and wellness journey really began when I started to work with our community here in Oakland at the Center for Empowering Refugees and Immigrants.   This space was a community mental health [00:15:00] space where elders, survivors of genocide came for support groups came for therapy, one-on-one therapy, talk therapy, and psychiatric clinics. This was one of the first spaces and community centers really in the world that I saw that focused predominantly for the healing for our genocide survivors, so for our grandmas and aunties and uncles.   Before this, I really didn’t have a lot of access to understanding our mental health journey and I didn’t really have language for it and language both in our Khmer language to talk about mental health and PTSD and the symptoms that come with all of this, like depression hyper vi- vigilance nightmares, flashbacks, triggers, and at the same time not having the [00:16:00] mental health skills to even hold our elders in this.   And if a young person like myself was trying to hold that space for our parents or elders, it didn’t feel necessarily safe or at least at the time for me to ask really deep questions about my family’s journey from, from genocide and from war and, and, traversing landmines and armies targeting them just to get to the border of Thailand, and then of course being at the refugee camps where Thailand wasn’t even ready for them or, or necessarily even wanting refugees, and the exploitation that happens there.   So, so many stories of survival so many stories of torture, of abandonment, of rejection, of malnutrition, and of course mass death. you know, you don’t want to see your parents sad, and you d- and you can tell in their eyes and their body language, even in through their silence, that they’re holding something behind their [00:17:00] expression, and I think I knew that for a long time growing up with my mom and my dad, and especially my mom who often did not tell stories about the war and genocide.   What I like to say is that it took me, close to 40 years to earn her trust, to earn and learn my Khmer language and to practice my mental health skills and wellness skills with the elders in Oakland first before I could, start this conversation with my mom.   And for me, listening to our elders one of the best projects that I worked with the elders was gardening and hearing their stories about seeds and even asking their, children or loved ones that would go to Cambodia to, bring back seeds from Cambodia to plant them here in the garden.   We had a really special program where we brought youth to the CERI garden and the elders’ garden where they talked about, the different [00:18:00] herbs, like lemongrass, and we had these banana trees, and we had the, this rose garden, and the youth learned firsthand from the elders what it meant to the elders to have a space of belonging and a space to literally plant seeds and grow roots in Oakland.   you know, I think I remember once going to a temple or to a Cambodian New Year here in Oakland or in Northern California, and there was a sign and it said something like, “No gang members.”   It was, like, literally one of the number one things on a poster, and I just thought, how judgmental that was. And I understand about safety, but it also felt like it was rejecting a community, and a community that so desperately needed support and care and to be integrated into rituals and traditions and practices.   And not just to be integrated, but how do we also hold space so that they are the ones healing and preserving and sharing their traditions [00:19:00] to the next generation?   Michelle MiJung Kim: Elijah told us that New Light Wellness began through a seed grant from New Breath Foundation, which was founded by Eddy Zheng in 2017. The idea came from a trip Eddy, Elijah, and others went on years ago called Kites to Cambodia.   Here’s Eddy to share those origins   Eddy Zheng: When it comes to mental health within the Asian American, Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander community it has always been a stigma, right? And so that’s very little resources that is invested because of that culture of shame, and stigma of or someone who had mental health challenges.   And so the lack of understanding of the multiple intersection of mental health really invisibilizes, our own community members, And so for people that, who were incarcerated and the people that, who, who have [00:20:00] experienced the trauma of war, that intergenerational trauma continues to show up in their lives and yet in their decision-making process.   And so, when I led a team of people as part of New Breath Foundation, along with Asian Prisoner Support Committee with Anoop Prasad from Asian Law Caucus in San Francisco and then, with Elijah Chhum, who at the time was working at CERI, Center for Empowering Refugees and Immigrants.   We went there as a way to listen to the people who were separated from their families in, Cambodia. So we had the first trip as kites to Cambodia, right? And so part of that, was learning from people and organization that… who went to Cambodia before and been providing support, for people that were separated from their, sep- who were separated from their families.   after we [00:21:00] engage, people there and their family members, one of the things that they all express is how challenging it, was, for them to deal with the separation of family, right? And be able to… Or not be able to, survive and not able to navigate in a country that they have never been to, right?   And so, mental health was one of those, topics that they overwhelmingly have shared that has impacted them and that they wanted some support.    and so that’s when Elijah started to doing some of the telehealth in, supporting the individuals that, who, volunteer to be a part of this healing process, right? Or just having someone to talk to about their challenges and experiences.   And then as the need increased, the word of mouth, then the more Elijah realized that we need to really have a [00:22:00] focal focus, right? Because the mental health aspect of this, not only for the deported communities, but it’s their members of their families that who are still in the States or their children, right?   Their parents, their loved ones. And so hence New Light as an organization, started. And then now it’s have scale up into a space where people, really, It scale up to a, a space where people find a sense of belonging    there   Michelle MiJung Kim: That was Eddy Zheng, founder and president of the New Breath Foundation. Let’s return to Elijah To hear how New Light has grown   Elijah Chhum: we began with one-on-one individual support because it was very clear that having a, a support group first didn’t feel safe. And of course myself, who’s based here in, in Oakland being thousands of miles away, 13, 14 hours apart I knew that holding a support group with folks [00:23:00] that I have not even met yet in person would not feel very safe for them Because they had so much dynamics and years in history with each other. And a lot of the time there was not a lot of like social emotional skills yet, or psychoeducation or, And really the trust is what I had to earn from the community. So I built that up, One by one, and our first few years was just holding individual spaces, one-on-one care.   And oftentimes a lot of organizers and activists and other people that worked with folks in Cambodia said, “Oh, don’t use the word mental health. Don’t use the word wellness. Don’t even use the words emotions.” maybe you should outreach and, and tell folks, like, this is about, leadership development and, and things like that.   Though I knew that our folks had the capacity to talk about their stories and I’m sh- and I had a feeling that they were ready. And so in my first [00:24:00] conversations with folks, They would be nervous because we’re just getting to know each other, and they would just say, “Well, where do I begin?”   And I remember in those first two years, and especially in the first year, my first question would be, “Please begin. Where were you born?” “What is the story of your birth? Which country were you born?” You know, “What years were you born?”And that would really begin their conversation as a child, as the 1.5 generation, oftentimes born in genocide, oftentimes born in refugee camps of Thailand or Malaysia or Philippines, and then arriving to the US as an infant or as a young child.   And those stories would then grow into, their feeling of persecution and isolation and, and being bullied by others in their neighborhood. And then stories would grow into trying to find a brotherhood and trying to find support, from elders and people older than them. But these elders were also struggling [00:25:00] to assimilate and navigate this new world of America.   And so many of our first stories and first, one-on-one care was just holding someone and listening to their whole entire life story in one to two to three sessions, and oftentimes it would end with them crying. I felt so honored that they would trust me in this in their vulnerability.   And I often heard that in these sessions, it was their first time telling their whole life story to one person, or that anybody heard or held their entire life story. And so I thought that was, something very special And I felt very fortunate that I was able to be able to hold this kind of space for someone and especially a community that I felt, after listening to these stories, that I felt have been so You know, misjudged and discriminated [00:26:00] against and underrepresented stories that often went unheard, especially about their childhood and what they endured arriving here in the ’80s and ’90s, and of course the stories of refugee camps and of genocide.   And they deserve to tell their stories, and they deserve someone to hold space for them. when people get deported and when they arrive in Cambodia there’s going to be a s- a spectrum of experiences.   Some folks are connected to family, and some folks may not have any family ties in Cambodia. The ones connected to family have a better chance of getting sponsored, and when you first arrive, for many years you were received by an NGO called KVAO. Khmer Vulnerability Aid Organization. And KVAO was tasked to receive folks, to, help them with getting connected to families to sponsor them out to give them [00:27:00] temporary housing, to help them get their first IDs.   And to get sponsored out is to get them in their family books and offer, food and, and clothing, for the first few weeks. But it’s, it’s ver- it’s very meant to be temporary. And at that point, I think there’s been a lot of different experiences for folks when it comes to the local family.   And of course, this is not from my own lived experience because I’m not impacted by deportation in this way, so this is all been what has been reported to me by staff and by our community members that we serve. families and local families, some have been very supportive and accept you as family and don’t judge you.   And then the other side of the spectrum community members have reported that families look at them like an ATM machine, that, being from the US, that you have access to funds and access to families that are sending you funds. [00:28:00] And, after a year or two of supporting you, there, there definitely f- there could be a pressure of giving funds to local families.   I think it is very well known that people feel the discrimination from the local community and, and local families, that, when you first arrive, many people may tell you not to disclose your status or not to disclose that you are deported, though the local community can see it. They see it in the way you walk and talk, the way you dress, the tattoos on your bodies, the way you’re built.   we’re just… US-raised folks have, are just built differently and their taste is different, and what they want to eat and how they talk is different. And, they’re native English speakers, for instance, so their accent and English accent when they’re speaking, speaking English is different.   And what I’ve heard from our [00:29:00] participants and members is that when they talk to the local community, they often feel like they’re on the offense or the defense. Like, when they’re speaking, it’s not as easeful. They’re waiting for a judgment to be made. Most local people, the first questions are, “Where are you from?”   or “Why are you here?” And the biggest judgment is when they ask them, “Can you go home? Can you go back?” And, a lot of our folks say that They could’ve been having a really great day that day. they woke up well-rested, they took their kids to school, they were going to the market, and then all of a sudden a neighbor or someone they were chatting with asks them that question, and it just, it just cuts them down.   Because that person may know and understand that there is impacted communities, that there… deportations are happening, and that i- there is a growing deportee community in Cambodia.   It is so hard to communicate to our loved ones. [00:30:00] It’s hard to make visits, especially if you’re hundreds of miles away. It’s hard to get on an app and to put funds on an app, and apps that take so much money. I’ve heard stories of our impacted folks that are deported that, they feel oftentimes when they’re calling home on Facebook and using even, like, virtual apps like Facebook and Telegram or WhatsApp that the families here in the US reject those calls because they think that the only thing the person in Cambodia wants is money.   I’ve heard stories from our folks in Cambodia that even when they were here in prison, they would call collect back in the early 2000s, and then when you call collect, in, in a few moments, in seconds, the person inside prison can actually hear the family member. And the family member doesn’t know that, but the family member would say, “Oh, it’s dot dot dot calling.”   And [00:31:00] then, the community member told me that when they were deliberating if they’re gonna take the collect call, someone in the background said, “No don’t take it.” And so to hear that rejection over and over again, you- I think it’s really hard on our community members. It’s hard to ask for help, and it’s hard to keep on calling and not getting that phone call picked up.   What I think is, a very special part of New Light Wellness is that we try to make intentional intergenerational spaces. So I have interns from UC Berkeley and UC Santa Cruz, and a lot of our interns are impacted by incarceration and deportation or has been systems impacted or has an uncle or a family member that has been incarcerated or detained or deported.   And though they may not have had the chance or the skills to hold their own siblings or their own community members or their own uncles, interning at New Light Wellness [00:32:00] and being in these collective healing spaces with our impacted leaders in Cambodia, I’ve learned that just their presence of being together virtually on Zoom has been healing.   It shifts something inside to hear young people stand in solidarity with our impacted folks. And for our young folks to get a chance to work with someone like their uncle, although they weren’t able, you know, at a such young age whenever their uncle got deported, but now it’s their chance to hold space for someone that is like their uncle.   And the same thing with the youth that come. Our impacted leaders say, that is my daughter’s age,” or, “That is my son’s age, and all the things I wish I could say to them I don’t get to say to them because, they’re not taking my calls now because of all these years of separation.” But now I get to practice and say to them, “I’m here,” with the interns.   And so just having that type of intergenerational space and intentional intergenerational leadership space [00:33:00] has been healing and it’s something that they ask for Another program that we had that we learned a lot from was what we call these reverse care packages, and we may not be the first one to come up with this.   And I hope more folks will do this, but what we did during one holiday was sponsor a gift, a holiday gift. So whatever, whoever the community member in Cambodia elected to receive this gift in the US we created a form and asked them what kind of gifts this person wanted, and our impacted folks signed up and they said, “Okay, send, send a gift to my sister.   She likes candles and soaps and books.” Or, “Please send this to my seven-year-old son. He likes Legos and toys and Play-Doh.” And it was so beautiful because, well, one, buying these presents and then wrapping them up and getting letters from our impacted leaders to send to their family members was such a gift in itself.   And then [00:34:00] to receive pictures and responses from the loved one that received it, yeah, there was something that It was just so beautiful and healing and powerful because, I think the strain of US families is that it, the love and money and funds and gifts always went one direction, to Cambodia, to our deported community.   And this is one chance that we could help that the love and funds or gifts could be sent in another direction, back to the US.   I think our directly impacted folks sometimes shoulder that they, not that they deserved it, but that they have to shoulder all of this by themselves, this burden of enduring detention and detainment, and the torture of just, just of enduring the detention centers and being… and traveling, and being shackled.   Y- yes, they have to… That, that part they do do alone. though [00:35:00] what I encourage is to have these conversations with your loved ones who care for you, that want… that though they are not there physically with you,   And before all that, how do you prepare a family for the worst-case scenario?   How do you pack all the right things so that the impacted community member can at least arrive with some things, like their toiletries or clothes or technology like phones or laptops? what, how much money should they bring, and then at the same time, what are all the accounts and who are m- who’s making decis- decisions for, your bank accounts and your insurance and your bills and, what name the car is under and the house is under?   And, so having a lot of these conversations beforehand is very helpful, though can be very hard.   So organizations like ourselves and many other organizations and activists and organizers just try to be with the [00:36:00] families every step of the way and giving wraparound care every step of the way so that that burden and that pain isn’t only being held by the directly impacted or for the wives or partners and family members.   And I think knowledge is power, and that knowing as much as possible of, of what can happen in every step of the way can relieve some anxiety, and I’ve learned that even just having conversations with folks about Cambodia has really helped. and getting connected to our leaders in Cambodia has helped.   I’m actually pretty an- amazed and inspired by families, and families that openly talk about this. you know, deportation and incarceration is already such a stigma and shame in our communities, so it’s hard to have those conversations, hard to uplift the past and uplift the, the worst mistake someone made in their [00:37:00] life, and, and then now having to talk about that worst mistake over and o- over again, trying to prove to everyone around them that they deserve to stay home, and I think it’s really hard to share that with your children and with your partner. And at the same time, telling that story is so crucial and important so that your family can be part of making decisions together, that your, your partner, and the children, and your parents, and loved ones, and cousins can be here with you, that you’re not alone in this.   Michelle MiJung Kim: You are not alone in this. That’s really what this is all about. With this grounding from Elijah, I wanna introduce you to P, who is a mother and an aspiring chef, and who was deported to Cambodia just a few months ago. P and NC are gonna come back and share what they’ve experienced in Cambodia and Laos in the past several months, and how they and their families keep going.   Let’s hear from P    P (pseudonym): every day, I [00:38:00] go, and I volunteer at KVAO. I help… I just assist, like, the staffs with whatever they need help with.   I just spend most of my day there, whether it’s helping someone else try to find a job, helping them with their CVs, which is, I- it’s called curriculum vitae here, or the resume,    P (pseudonym): guess. Helping them with that. I’m also helping myself, look for jobs. I, here I’m trying to pursue a career in teaching.   I am currently taking a TESOL class, which is, I think, teachers of English as a second language. I believe that’s the course. So I’m currently taking a course. And, I’m trying to see if I can get a teaching job because I also enjoy teaching because I’ve also… You know, I love working with kids even teens.   So- It’s either that or, and I would like to, you know, also[00:39:00] pursue my career in, cooking and stuff. But I think that, I can’t start a business, not without any, like, income or, so I have to… I’m thinking about teaching so that I can make money and then, yeah, maybe open up a little business one day.   I just love working with kids. They’re just like, also because, I’m a mom, and I know I love being, to being nurturing. Also, with teaching, I also wanna help kids just reach their full potential by just, you know, just being there to assist them, in any way.   Like,I feel like, I have the patience to work with kids and, um,yeah, I just I love being with kids.    In the beginning, I was like, “Oh my gosh.” “This is, like, the end of the world.”   But really it’s not the end of the world. This is just, like, a new beginning for me. I was just like, you know, I’ve never been to Cambodia. I was, like, so scared. I was like, “Oh my gosh,” and I was just thinking just, like, all the bad things. But, you know what? Once I [00:40:00] got here I was like, “You know what?   I love it here.” Like,I think that everybody just has to find a positive out of Out of every situation. I mean,if, the people have a chance to fight, I suggest that they fight it. But, like, if, things don’t work out, then you have to really figure out what are you gonna do, prepare yourself for, you know,wherever they’re sending you to.   thank God for the phones and stuff like that because, yeah, I’m still able to, uh, be in contact with my kids and, we, we still have our time.   We just spend our time, on the phone. I guess we have Facebook, so we’re just on the phone doing our thing, we’re still, like me and my son, we sometimes watch movies together. We’ll share the screen. I mean, we’re still having family time a- as much as we can. it’s not, you know, I can’t touch them and hold them, but at least I do have that.   I’ve always been just surviving and like, when am I gonna be able to [00:41:00] just say, “You know what? Let me just, live life.” Right now I’m just, I’m still just trying to get through.   trying to get… trying to make it. it’s every day I’m just fighting for my life just to, to get by.   Like- I know that, me crying about my situation and just, all that is not really gonna help me out. Like,if I get, depressed and lose motivation, it’s not gonna get me anywhere.   It’s not gonna change my situation. It’s like,just being stressed out, being, depressed, it’s not gonna get me anywhere. So I have to be strong and keep pushing, like, find a way because, I don’t know. I don’t wanna give up, you   Michelle MiJung Kim: we’ll return after a short break. First, let’s hear again from Joe Sin and the Angkor Wat Band. [00:42:00] That was Joe Sin and the Angkor Wat Band. Welcome back to My Family. Like P, NC is also trying to build his new life. Here’s NC   NC (pseudonym): when I came to Laos, I didn’t have anybody. I didn’t know nobody, not a single relative or friend over here. But, when I went to the detention facility, I met a guy and we became friends, and he kind of like, he had relatives here in Laos.   So he told me that, “Hey, if, if you don’t have anybody, I’ll tell my, my family to, to come and, sponsor you.” Like his distant part of the family. And I say, “Thank you.” And then, when I got here, it was hard too, because he had to try to like really, really try to convince them as well.   It wasn’t like something that they would [00:43:00] want to, just do, It was very hard to get them to trust me. when they came and see me and they talk with me, and then they say, okay, they’ll they’ll decided to sponsor me. So with that, I had a, a little bit of relief because they said that.   And then, but it was just like, when you get here, it’s kind of like if you don’t have a sponsor you don’t know how you’re gonna manage. You don’t know how you’re gonna… You don’t even, they won’t even let you out of the camp. So it’s like you’re just going from one detention facility to another detention facility, but the only difference is at the campground here is much better because you’re not…   you wear your, your clothes and you’re fr- you roam free, and then you sleep in a place where, you have mattresses. You sleep in a place and, they do, they give you like, three meals a day too. But then the thing is that you’re s- you’re stuck in the camp if nobody comes to get you, and I don’t know, I don’t know about the people that’s been there.   They can be there, they could [00:44:00] give… They’ll stay there for like two, three months, and if they don’t have no sponsor, I don’t know what happens after that, ’cause I didn’t stay that long to, to see what happened to the people that, that don’t have a sponsor to come get them. So it’s kind of scary, too, if you don’t have a sponsor to come get you, ’cause you don’t know where you’re gonna end up to    NC (pseudonym): But once I got a sponsor and, and, I came out, the thing is that the, it’s hard because once they, they get you out, it’s you start to realize that, they’re not your family, and then they want you to, keep paying them and all this other stuff. And then, and then you have to you don’t wanna get into anything that’s not good with them, You don’t wanna keep, mm. So then you try to go and find a place. So you kinda like just move out, because you’re only there, you’re only allow- You know, they… what’s the correct way? It’s like you can stay with them, but you only stay with them like temporary. Yeah. So then you gotta go [00:45:00] find your own place.   And then, but the messed up thing is that if you don’t pay them, they don’t really help you to go find a place of your own. So that’s when, I was talking to some of my friends in America, and I was asking like, “Man, it’s kinda messed up ’cause we don’t have any programs here. Like this country doesn’t have any programs that will, will help you transition, into-    the way of life in Laos.” And basically I, I had to just try to learn everything the best way I can, talk to people, be as cordial as I can and, and respectful as I can and talk and ask and… But I don’t know Laos, so I don’t talk to any of the Laos people. But fortunately there are some Hmong people here, so then I talk to some other Hmong people here   But I like I was saying that, I, I thank the, the Lord for helping me as, as well, I met some people and I was fortunate to meet some people who was willing to help me.   So I made some friends. And [00:46:00] although I don’t know the Laos language, sometimes I ask them to go help me translate, then they would if they, have time. But it’s, it’s, it’s hard, like for a time in the beginning I was just like just staying out. Sometimes I stayed out all night.   Sometimes if I find a place to sleep, I would, s- like sleep at a guest house. But then it would drain my funds like really fast because I had to, pay like per night. And then some nights I’d just stay up all night. And then I’d go to places where it’s it’s sad because for the first time it’s I felt, felt homeless, That’s the- that’s the correct term, I guess. I’m, I was just homeless, just roaming the streets. And then I was thinking to myself like, “What?” I don’t know how to go rent an apartment or a place here because, I don’t have the connections. So you don’t know how to talk to people and you don’t know who to talk to and ask.   And a lot of times they won’t rent it to you unless [00:47:00] they know that you can, pay them. you have to have somebody talk to them. So when I have my friend and she went to talk to them and find out that, the room was open and I was able to, rent it. And then I started, talking to my grandma back in, the US and then my grandma then found a, a, a distant cousin of ours.   And then I kind of reached out to them and they don’t live, they don’t live where I live. They live like really far up north. So I really talked to them and then they started pointing directions like, “Oh yeah, we do have some distant cousins here in this village. If you have time you go visit them.”   So that’s what I do. I, I would, if I could and I have the funds, I would go visit them because they’re not gonna come visit me. You know what I mean? So-    NC (pseudonym): just, so yeah, I have to go visit them and show them that, “Hey, this is me. I’m here,” and Basically like that, but still transitioning is still hard because, have to [00:48:00] learn the language, practice it, every single day and then learn the customs and, and learn how not to get in trouble and stay out of trouble    Michelle MiJung Kim: Welcome back to “My Family.” That was “Mae” by Satiya. This is our last episode for now, So I wanna end with some calls to action. This all began when families reached out to the Asian Prisoner Support Committee asking about what was gonna happen to their loved ones and what could be done about it.   So we wanna end with what we can do. Let’s start with P and T.   P (pseudonym): I suggest that people just, find out resources that they have wherever, if they’re gonna get deported, then, find out the resources that they have in [00:49:00] the States that will also continue, to provide you help, once you get to the country that you’re going to.   I don’t know. I, I feel like, whatever resources there are, reach out and, get connected to people because I think it helps a lot, especially,  with,   P (pseudonym): I have KVAO and then I have also the wellness center where, there- we are connected with other deportees who’s also going through the same thing and, we all, get together, we support each other, and we just, are connected.   you don’t feel so alone   I would just recommend everyone to just reach out to any organizations that, any organization. There’s many that’s available. you just have to do the researching a little bit and find out, where they’re at and get connected to them.    So you have help   T (pseudonym): to me, the important part is keeping contact Either by, with the phone, FaceTime, or whatever it is. That’s, because it means a lot to that person that’s getting deported. It m- to me, that’s how I [00:50:00] feel. It means a lot, but I was different. I, I, my family didn’t really do that, and I, I…   That’s why I feel so alone. So to me, keep in contact with that person. It make them feel a lot better, make them feel like they have someone there that they didn’t forgive or love, yeah. That’s for me right there.   Michelle MiJung Kim: And finally, to close us out, we’ll go back to Elijah, Eddy, and NC and what keeps them going. We’ll start with Elijah   Elijah Chhum: I sing. I am in the Oakland Gay Men’s Chorus, and it’s one space for me to just be. I’m trying to model that I need to be held in this as well, and that I do seek my own mental health care and wellness care. I’m not perfect. I’m only human. I make mistakes as well,   there was a moment when I was singing in the chorus, and we were singing these [00:51:00] protest songs and songs of resistance and songs that in my body and in my soul felt like that I needed to sing and not just sing out of protest and resistance, but also sing out of joy and out of strength and solidarity.   And the… And there was a moment, I think I was just looking at my director and when while I was singing, that I just felt so present, and I felt so joyful. That I was… That life was so precious in this very moment on stage under these lights and with, 70 to 80 singers alongside me singing to this crowd.   And, yeah. So I really… I tr- I’m trying my best to embrace those precious moments.   to do this work, I do want to center our joy and, I just want to be, and I think I’ve mentioned that before, this work of the movement, it’s, it’s constant action, constant fighting.   And, what I’d like to s- [00:52:00] think about is are there moments that we get to just be and be accepted as who we are with all of our faults and flaws and, and all of our strengths and all of our hopes and dreams, and that there’s no pressure to do anything, actually? And if we could just be together and just be even for f- a glimpse, for a little moment, that to me just already feels so refreshing, and, enjoying that breeze, that sunlight together or that sweet smell of a rose together.   That’s what gives me strength to keep going and gives me inspiration to keep going, and yeah, enjoying those small moments.   Eddy Zheng: What each generation of our ancestors   Always wanted their children, their grandchildren, their descendants always wanted their lives to be better than theirs, right? [00:53:00] And so they struggle, they create they sacrifice So we can have a better opportunities to thrive And at the same time, we cannot, diminish that The domestic policy, the international policies that are impacted in multiple systems that, connects to some of the decision-making that many of the people that who are impacted by the criminal legal system and the detention and deportation system.   And so I always share that, we must be willing to engage in a personal revolution before embarking on a collective liberation Because of our– because our liberation and our freedom is all tied to each other.   And I think, [00:54:00] the ancestor Yuri Kochiyama had really stated that, the movement is contagious and the people in it are the ones who pass on the spirit   So The people that who believe   That everyone has a right to breathe   to heal, to thrive   It’s important that we also believe in the humanity of all people   NC (pseudonym): Yeah. I just wanna say that, that, don’t stop the fight, fight, fight for your family, because I never really saw it like this, but until in hindsight I start to under- reflect and see a lot of things they’ll tell us that, “Oh, we’re not being affected,” or they’ll try to, separate us from one another.   First it’s gonna be like, oh, just only the, the person that are, came over here illegally. And then they’re gonna start talking, [00:55:00] targeting, oh, everybody, this and that. And then now they’re gonna start targeting, na- people who are already been naturalized. And then they’re gonna start targeting, like all that thing on the news about birthright citizenship.   They’re gonna just try to, go after as m- many people as they can, and try to tear up as much family as they can. And I just want people to just realize that. And, if you believe in family you believe in, treating each other as a human being, and loving one another, and standing up for one another, then yeah, we just gotta…   That’s the best way we can do is just to stick up for one another and stand together. even if I’m over here, I would, still stand up for, for us being, people, human beings. And, we should be treated, we, everybody should be treated the same way. That’s just, that’s just my, my take that I wanna say    Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:56:00] Thank you for joining us. This has been “My Family,” a project by APEX Express and the Asian Prisoner Support Committee. Every day, we hear from community members, activists, and students seeking trusted information and candid recounts of what really happens inside ICE detention, after someone is deported, and throughout every moment in between.   We created “My Family” to help them find answers and to learn together. While we are focused on stories from Southeast Asian families, we know these threats reach across so many different immigrant communities, and they all need to be heard. In our show notes, we’ll link to stories rooted in that solidarity.   You’ll also find listening guides that invite you to reflect on the episodes with your friends, family, and networks. Our resources are here to help you share my family and the stories of [00:57:00] these incredible community members with more people. I’m your host, Michelle MiJung Kim. It’s been a privilege to be on this journey with you.    The music in today’s program is by Joe Sin, a Khmer elder in California, the Angkor Wat Band, and Satiya, a Cambodian Australian singer and songwriter. We’ll include links to their songs and resources to find help and learn more at kpfa.org/program/apex-express and asianprisonersupport.com.    A special thank you to Niketa Kumar, who was instrumental in the creation of this series. APEX Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam.   Thank you, and have a good night.    The post APEX Express – 10.29.26 – My Family Ep 3: What happens after deportation? appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight Host Miko Lee focuses on the Free Families Coalition. APEX Express covers Tsuru for Solidarity’s 4-day pilgrimage walk in Seattle which happened on October 7-10. Tsuru for Solidarity, on behalf of the Free Families Coalition and in partnership with La Resistencia held a 48-mile pilgrimage walk through Seattle to the Northwest Detention Center in Tacoma. They walked from former sites of WWII Japanese American concentration camps to current-day sites of immigration detention and deportation. Hear from the activists leaders involved in this movement for justice.   Links to Show highlights Tsuru for Solidairity La Resistencia Puyallup Concentration Camp Rabbit in the Moon Satsuki Ina’s film Children of the Camps and her book The Poet and the Silk Girl   Past APEX Express episodes around the Japanese American Incarceration and Never Again work Rethinking Immigration Detention Never Again Series and Curriculum Transcription of the Episode Coming Soon The post APEX Express – 10.22.26 – Free Families Coalition appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – October 15, 2026 appeared first on KPFA.

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Hema Holistic Mystic Introducing new APEX Express Producer Hema G, whose show Hema Holistic Mystic airs tonight. Hema is an intuitive healer,psychic andmedium, hosting a live call in show. Exploring the Mystical, Healing the Human, Awakening the Soul What if there’s more to life than what we can see, touch, or explain? What if our intuition, spiritual gifts, and capacity for healing are far greater than we’ve been led to believe? Welcome to Hema Holistic Mystic, a soulful, thought-provoking, and sometimes delightfully unconventional journey into the mysteries of consciousness, spirituality, and the human experience. Hosted by Hema, a spiritual mentor, intuitive healer, and lifelong explorer of the mystical, the show dives into topics ranging from psychic abilities, channeling, and mediumship to energy healing, trauma awareness, ancient wisdom traditions, and personal transformation.   With warmth, curiosity, humor, and a grounded approach to spirituality, Hema bridges the mystical and the practical, inviting listeners to question their assumptions, explore their own intuitive gifts, and discover new possibilities for healing and growth. And this isn’t just a show to listen to — it’s a show to participate in! Call in live to share your questions, explore personal challenges, receive intuitive guidance, or experience a live healing session with Hema. Whether you’re a seasoned spiritual seeker, a curious skeptic, or simply someone navigating the beautiful messiness of being human, Hema Holistic Mystic offers a welcoming space for exploration, connection, and transformation. Come curious. Leave inspired. And perhaps discover a little magic within yourself.   The post APEX Express – 10.15.26 – Hema Holistic Mystic appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – October 8, 2026 appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – October 1, 2026 appeared first on KPFA.

Explore APSC’s My Family Audio Series A story-driven 3-part audio project about Cambodian, Hmong, Laotian, Vietnamese, and other Southeast Asian families doing everything possible to breathe with ease and live freely besides the people we love.  Created by the Asian Prisoner Support Committee and APEX Express, and hosted by writer and activist Michelle MiJung Kim, My Family seeks to answer many of the questions countless families in our communities are grappling with today. Mass deportation and family separation are fueled by isolation and silence. With My Family, we aim to dismantle both with stories full of heart, compassion, and an honest look at the tangled paths many of us take to reckon with the past, rebuild our lives, and make a new place home.  Our deep gratitude extends to all the community members who shared their stories with us, even while painful to recount. Their commitment to creating stronger, more informed communities is unparalleled.    My Family Ep. 2: What happens in ICE detention? In our second episode, we take a closer look at what happens when people are forced into ICE detention, including after completing their sentence in state prison and transforming their lives. You’ll hear from NC, Pam, and Tony, who endured ICE detention in California and other states, as well as Elijah Chhum, executive director of New Light Wellness.  Music from episode 2, as well as related resources, can be found below in the show notes. If you are an impacted community member in California or have a family member who is directly impacted by detention and deportation, we encourage you to contact APSC at [email protected] or our partners at New Light Wellness and the Center for Empowering Refugees and Immigrants.  Music: Original composition by Joe Sin and the Angkor Wat Band. Joe is a Khmer elder and community leader in Oakland Temple by Thao Resources: My Family Episode 2 discussion guide APSC Data Report on Incarcerated and Formerly Incarcerated Asians and Pacific Islanders Asian Law Caucus legal resources and video explainers for Southeast Asians facing deportation threats USC Equity Research Institute analysis on ICE arrests of Asian and Pacific Islander Californians We Are California: Hmong History and Cultural Studies A special thanks to Hmong Innovating Politics for their guidance on Hmong communities’ history and refugee experiences.   Transcript Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:00:00] Hello. Welcome to “My Family,” a project by the Asian Prisoner Support Committee and APEX Express. I’m your host, Michelle Mijung Kim. If you haven’t yet, I invite you to check out our first episode. We’ll include a tag in the show notes, which you can find at kpfa.org/program/apex-express/. As as [00:01:00] listeners may know, many Southeast Asians are in the United States after their families found refuge here in the ’70s and ’80s, fleeing genocide and violence in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos.   Most have loved ones who didn’t survive. The ones who did make it out, around one point one million, are the largest refugee community ever resettled in the US. Today, after decades of building a home in the US, these families are targeted by mass detention and deportation. According to the latest data, forty-two percent of all Southeast Asian deportations to date happened between 2025 and 2026. There’s been a twentyfold increase in the deportations of Southeast Asian elders. Amid the pain and fear, families are seeking answers. How did we get here? What can we do to keep our family safe and together?   That’s why I’m partnering with the Asian [00:02:00] Prisoner Support Committee and APEX Express, to bring our communities and families honest recounts of what is happening so that we can be there for each other. In today’s episode, we’ll focus on what happens in ICE detention.   Welcome to “My Family.”    A content warning for our listeners that in today’s episode, we’ll be discussing incarceration, depression, and family separation.   We first met NC in our last episode. NC and his family are Hmong. Like many other ethnic groups in Laos, including Lahu and Mien, Hmong people’s stories are unfa– Hmong people’s stories are unfamiliar to many.   These ethnic groups and others have shared ancient roots in the central and southern– in the central and southern regions of China. About 300 years ago, they were forced to flee the Chinese government’s oppression and persecution. Many sought safety in the highlands [00:03:00] of Southeast Asia. NC’s family settled in N- N- NC’s family settled in Laos.   During the Vietnam War, the CIA recruited tens of thousands of Hmong boys and men, including members of NC’s family, to fight in a covert campaign in Laos known as the Secret War, which you can learn more about in the resources we’ll share in the show notes. Hmong fighters served behind enemy lines, rescued US planes, and risked their lives for Americans.   The Hmong soldiers were told that they were– The Hmong soldiers were told they and their families would be protected, but when the war ended, the Americans left, and thousands of Hmong were left behind. Facing persecution for their work with the United States, the Hmong were once again forced to flee. One– Facing p- facing persecution for their work with the United States, the Hmong were once again forced to flee to survive, rendering them stateless.   Thousands of Hmong families and other ethnic minority groups hid in the jungles or escaped on foot. Many died on the journey from starvation, drowning, and disease. NC’s parents, [00:04:00] his mom pregnant with him, finally crossed the Mekong River into Thailand. NC was born into a refugee camp there, and after some time, his family was brought to the US, first in Long Beach and later in Stockton, where his dad opened an auto body shop   As a young person, NC was convicted of a crime, which led him to being incarcerated for 24 years. On the day he was supposed to be released from prison last year, instead of finally, instead of finally being able to return home, he was picked up by ICE. He had planned to finish his college education and become a social worker, helping young people struggling with trauma and loss like he did.   ICE took him to Mesa Verde, a detention facility in Bakersfield, California. For years, people detained in Mesa Verde and other ICE facilities in California, and other facilities, and other f- and other ICE facilities in California have led hun– Oh my gosh. For years, people detained in Mesa Verde and other ICE facilities in California have led hunger and labor strikes to protest medical neglect, gruesome conditions, including a perpetual lack of food and clean water.   California Attorney [00:05:00] General Rob Bonta says the conditions are worse now, calling ICE’s facilities in the state, quote, ” cruel, inhumane, and unacceptable.” As of this recording, at least 24 people have died in ICE custody nationwide this year. We’ll hear from NC what happened after ICE agents brought him to the Mesa Verde ICE facility.   Here’s NC   NC (pseudonym): Yeah, it’s kinda… It’s hard because when you hit detention, it’s like you paroled, you’re happy that you paroled because you’ve been incarcerated, ’cause I’ve been incarcerated for like like 24 years, and like, you know, it’s the next step.   So it’s the next step to freedom. And while I went to a detention facility, you know, you know, it’s like the main thing is just try to get out, not, not to get into trouble, you know. um, so during that time, it was like you don’t have like, like… If you don’t have, like, money to hire an attorney, then basically it’s kinda like you trying to ask for a pro bono attorney, somebody that’s willing to help you and represent you, but they have a lot of people in the [00:06:00] detention facility as well.   So when they come, it’s like they’re just overwhelmed with a whole bunch of people, and you hardly even get to, to really sit down and talk with them. So if you see them, they come visit like, I think, once a month, and then they’ll just take your A number down, and then they’ll just talk to you, and then they’ll just, you know…   If they come back to you, I guess they come back to you. But I haven’t really seen any, anybody, you know, um, they ever got back to that I know of, so. so.    Niketa Kumar: Mm-hmm.   NC (pseudonym): all the people, all the de- detainees that was there, um, those that were fighting their case, you know, Either they have a private, uh, immigration attorney, um, fighting for them, uh, uh, or they’re just doing paperwork themself.   one of the thing I wanna point out is while you’re in detention, you don’t have access to anything, you know. They give you like a tablet, and they give you like some cases on it, but you really don’t have access to look up anything or research anything. You only have, you know, the access to whatever that they [00:07:00] gave you um, According to their tablet. And, And, and it’s just like the tablet, they only have like… Like, for example, when I was there, um- We only had to, we had to share, like, four tablets, and there was a lot of us. And people sh- use it to, like, order canteen. Somebody would, like, use it to watch movie, listen to the radio.   Some people would use it to, um, talk with their family, Mm-hmm … like um, But, um, um, we don’t have enough tablets and, um, we don’t have enough, um, um, batteries on the tablet. And um, just getting a hold of the tablet is, is, um, is pretty hard to get. And, And, like, um…   They give you, like, a little pin for the, the computer, but it’s hard to, um, access it because they don’t really… There’s, like, no… They don’t really teach you how to access anything anyway. So you’re just, like, going from one place to another, and if you have something, you don’t know how to save it. So you would have to ask other people that’s been there for a while, and then you would have to go to, like… like…   You know, all this is, all this is just, like, um, like, um, I learned after, you know? It’s not like, like, like when I was [00:08:00] there-   NC (pseudonym): somebody was, was, you know, you know, showing me. So you have to sign up. You have to go to the library, and when they schedule… ‘Cause there’s, like, it’s overcrowded and there’s so many people. And, and they schedule the library.   There’s, like, one librarian and, and,  you know, you know, we have to share the library. And then if you go there, then you have to try to get it printed or, you know, stuff like that. And then, and then when you do that stuff, you have to be able to sign up. You gotta have it, and if the librarian’s not there, then you just have to wait until another time.   So everything is just, um, hard. It’s not like, um, like if you remember something, then you can do something. And it’s, like, uh, even pencils and paper, if you don’t have, like, money to buy it on your canteen, then you would just have to ask somebody for it because everything… ‘ Cause once you get there, they don’t give you any property, you know?   So sometimes, um, if you talk to the, the, uh, detaining officers, if they let you take some of your, um, like hygiene items. Like if you come from prison, you take some of your hygiene items, they’ll allow you to bring it with you. [00:09:00] But other than that, it’s like you really don’t have access to anything. ‘ Cause once you get there, you have to slip out of your clothes, and you gotta wear, you know, prison clothes and can’t have any, um, any personal belongings on you.   So you’re just, like, going from one… It’s like one, one prison to another prison.   You just, you know, try to just be calm and, um, you know, try to just, you know, stay, don’t get into trouble, uh, you know, await for your, um, immigration hearing. um, And the first time I was there, um, I waited for my immigration hearing and, um, um, they didn’t even, um, um, get my paperwork because something happened, and I had to call, call, and had to write a bunch of letters and paper and that’s how… That’s why I didn’t, like, go to, um, um, my immigration hearing, like, like, within, like, a couple of weeks when I got there.   I had to wait, like, a whole month, you know, before I got scheduled for one. So, ’cause they, they lost my paperwork. I don’t know if they, they d- lost it or sent it because I was writing to the, the, ICE agent that, um, um, is in charge of my case, and they said they [00:10:00] don’t have any paperwork on me, so they can’t…   You know, You know, I was writing to the courts and I was, you know, dialing the phone number to the courts to see if they, um, um, uh, scheduled me for m- an immigration hearing. So it was, it it was, part of the process of sending the paperwork from the ICE place to the, uh, courts so they can schedule it, and they didn’t, they didn’t, they didn’t do it.   So I had to wait. I had to stay, like, an extended like, period of time, much longer than I should have um, I was able to finish… I mean, they were able to schedule me and then, um, during that time, you know, I saw attorneys and they were just telling me, ” Oh, nothing’s gonna happen to you. Um, the country’s not gonna accept you.   Um, just go and, you know, you can fight it if you want, but you’re probably gonna lose. So you’re gonna be here, like, two, three, four, five years fighting it in, in detention. And then if you just, you know, s- agree to it, like, yes, yes, yes, and then, then, after you sign all the paperwork, you just, you know, you’ll wait about, like, a month, and, and then you’ll just be out of here.”   So that was just the, like, like, you know, Basically, like a protocol.   Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:11:00] NC was eventually put on an Omni Air International plane. Many first learned about Omni’s large contract with ICE in 2018 when it helped execute the then largest deportation flight of Southeast Asian refugees in the United States history.   Since 2025, Omni’s work for ICE has quadrupled. As journalist Gillian Brockell has ex– as journalist Gillian Brockell explained, Omni has been the only large jet airline flying shackled passengers on long-haul ICE flights to Africa and Asia.   A former ICE official told NBC last year that each ICE flight costs taxpayers about $25,000 per hour. NC was deported last November.   NC (pseudonym): Well, like like when I came to Laos, I didn’t have anybody. Um, I didn’t know nobody, not a single relative or friend over here. But, um, um, uh, when I went to the detention [00:12:00] facility, I met a guy and we became friends, and he kinda like, like, he had relatives here in Laos.   So he told me that, um, um, you know, “Hey, if, um, um, if you don’t have anybody, you know, you know, I’ll tell my, um, my family to, to come and, um, um, sponsor you.” You know, like his, his, distant part of the family. And I say, sh- you know, “Thank you.” You know? um, when I got here, um, it was hard, too, because he had to try to like really, really try to convince them as well.   Um, it wasn’t like something that they would want to, you know, just do, you know? you know? So, um, it was very, very hard to get them to trust me. So, So, uh, uh, when they came and see me and they talk with me, and then they say okay, they’ll, they, they’ll decided to sponsor me. So with that, uh, I had a, you know, a little bit of relief because um, when you get here, it’s kinda like like if you don’t have a sponsor, uh, you don’t know how you gonna manage. You don’t know how you gonna… You don’t even, they won’t even let you out of the camp. So it’s like you’re just going from one detention facility to another detention [00:13:00] facility, but the only difference is at the campground here is much better because you’re not…   You know, You know, you wear your, your clothes and you’re fr- you, you roam free, and then, um, you sleep in a place where, um, you know, you have mattresses. You sleep in a place and, um, they do, they give you like, uh, uh, three meals a day, too. So, but then the thing is that you’re s- you’re stuck in the camp if nobody comes to get you, and I don’t know, I don’t know about the people that’s been there.   They can be there, They’ll stay there for, like, like, two, three months, and if they don’t have no sponsor, I don’t know what happens after that, ’cause I didn’t stay that long to, to see what happened to the people that, that don’t have a sponsor to come get them. You know? So it’s kinda scary, too, if you don’t have a sponsor to come get you, ‘ cause you don’t know where you’re gonna end up    Niketa Kumar: Hmm.   NC (pseudonym): But once I got a sponsor and, and,  you know, you know, I came out, the thing is that the, it’s hard because once they, they get you out, it’s like, you know, you start to realize that, you know, they’re not your family, and then they want you to, you know, keep paying them and all this other stuff. And then, and then you have to like, you know, you don’t wanna like get into anything that’s not good [00:14:00] with them, you know?    you know?   you know. Mm-hmm. So then you try to go and find a place. So you kinda like just move out, you know, because you only there, you only allow, you know, they, you know, like, um, what’s the correct way? It’s like you can stay with them, like, like, but you only stay with them like temporary. Yeah.   So then you gotta go find your own place. but the, but the messed up thing is that if you don’t pay them, they don’t really help you to go find a place of your own. So that’s when, um, um, I was talking to some of my friends in America, and I was asking like, “Man, it’s kinda messed up ’cause we don’t have any programs here.   Like this country doesn’t have any programs that will, will, will help you transition, you know, into –    Niketa Kumar: Hmm …   NC (pseudonym): you know, the way of life in, in Laos.” And basically, I, I, I had to just try to learn everything the best way I can, talk to people, be as cordial as I can, and, uh, uh, and respectful as I can, and, uh, talk and ask.   And, but I don’t know Laos, so I don’t talk to any of the Laos people. But fortunately there are some Hmong people here, so then I talk to some other Hmong people here, and   I was fortunate to meet some people who was, who was willing to help me.   Um, so I made some [00:15:00] friends. And although I don’t know the Laos language, you know, sometimes I ask them to go help me translate, then they would, um, if they, you know, have time. But it’s, it’s, it’s hard, like for a time, for a time in the beginning I was just like just staying out. Sometimes I stayed out all night.   Sometimes if I find a place to sleep, I would, you know, s- you know, sleep at a guest house. Um, but then like it would drain my funds really, really fast because I had to, you know, pay like per night. And then some nights I’d just stay up all night. like, um, you know, like, it’s sad because for the first time like, um, felt, I felt, felt homeless, you know? you know?   That’s, that’s the, that’s the correct term, I guess. I was just homeless, you know, just roaming the streets. And then I was thinking to myself like, “What?” I don’t know how to go rent an apartment or a place here because, um, I don’t have the connections. So you don’t know how to talk to people, and you don’t know who to talk to and ask.   And, and a lot of times they won’t rent it to you unless they know that you can, you know, pay them. So, So, you know, you know, you have to, um, have [00:16:00] somebody talk to them. So when I have my friend and she went to talk to them and, um, find out that, um, um, the room was open, and I was able to, you know, rent it. then, then I started, um, um, talking to my grandma back in, um, the US, and then my grandma then found a, a distant cousin of ours.   um, kind of I kind of reached out to them, they don’t live where I live. They live like really, really far up north. So I really talked to them, and then they started pointing directions like, “Oh yeah, you know, you know, we do have some distant cousins here in this, in this village. If you have time, you go visit them.”   So that’s what I do. I, I would, you know, if I could and I have the funds, I would go visit them because they’re not gonna come visit me. You know what I mean?    Niketa Kumar: Mm-hmm   NC (pseudonym): so yeah, I have to go visit them and show them that, “Hey, you know, this is me. Um, I’m here,” and, you know, um- basically like that, but, um, still like like transitioning is still hard because, you know, have to learn the language, you know, practice it, um, every single day and then learn the customs and, and learn how not to get in trouble and stay out of trouble.   Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:17:00] It’s time to come back to Pam, who you heard from in the first episode of My Family. Pam also grew up in California and was incarcerated for 16 years. When Pam first learned that she could be deported after serving her time, she said her parents were shocked. They told her, “There’s nobody over there who can support you, take care of you.   You’ve been here in America all your life. Why does ICE want to send you over there since you already did your time?” She spent a lot of time in the prison law library trying to understand her options to come back home to her parents and her children. Once she paroled, like NC, like NC, ICE came and took her directly to a detention center.   Here’s Pam. Here’s Pam   Pam (pseudonym): It’s pretty much worse than, um, in prison, because if in prison you could walk, you could program, you could [00:18:00] do other stuff.   But in the ICE ICE detainer, you get a yard, hour a day. It’s like you, you’re locked up in prison for, you know, when you get… Getting locked up again. You go, you go into that, the hole. You know, where us prison, we call it the hole, or jail is another way of, you you know, know, expressing it. in 24 hours, you only get a hour of yard time, and it was hard to be being in a dorm with all these people, over 100 people in the dorm.   It was hard. It was hard. But it’s like you’re against the world, and I never felt like that before.   I never felt like I’m against the world before. I have to fight for my life. So that was the first time. Even though I did my prison time, I didn’t feel like I have to fight my life, because I know what I did wrong. But that’s the first time I ever feel like I have to fight for my life just to be alive and [00:19:00] free, either with my family or without my family. So I’m going to another country that I, I never known since I was two years old. I left Cambodia when I was two, and now I’m almost 50. that’s a big old gap, what I’m going to a whole new world. When I first, from ICE detainer, I was nervous, and then I thought they’re gonna take me.   I thought they gonna not deport me at all. I thought they gonna move me to another ICE detainer. And I heard about another ICE detainer is worse, like Texas is worse. But also, even the officer in the detainer won’t even treat you, they don’t treat you like human. your personal property, your family send pictures, they copy your photo and they throw your original one away.   They say, “Oh, you got the copy.” What you mean? it’s not like [00:20:00] person you can have your copy, but they would throw your original. They won’t even save it for you. And then when you’re about to get deported, you have to make sure, you have to, like, be on them about, “Hey, I don’t have no clothes.   Can my family send money? I mean, send boxes for me so I can take my clothes?” Because I have my rights that I can ask for 40-pound box, before I leave. And it took them a long time to process your paper to get, to let your family send stuff like that. And about time you, that you got it, they’re going through every little detail, and then, like, some of your stuff is missing or damaged.   Like, hey, why my, my, stuff is damaged? My son send me a watch, it almost got damaged. Good thing that he, he wrap it with a bunch of clothes, they don’t care about your property. They don’t. They really don’t. So you have to ask them, what can you ha- can, what can your family send you? And sometimes they tell you, “Hey, I can’t get you a box,” they [00:21:00] tell you you’re about to leave, you And sometimes it’s not even true. You end up leaving the next day. So- It’s a lot of, it’s a lot of stuff I was s- I was s- going through it. I never go through… I had never felt like I’m going through a war zone with them. They just not specific with everything. They, they really treat you like you’re not… You never been in United States.   They really treat you like a great straight out prisoner. Even the prison don’t treat you like that. So it’s, it’s hard. It’s hard, tough, and, uh, hopefully, you know, the only thing that keep me going is strong bond with your family. Family, friend, loved ones, like, Any group that help with the deportation, what you have to go through, you know? So that’s the only way that you feel like you don’t have to battle with nothing. You ha- I nev- I never felt like I’m- Dead to the world. it was hard. It was hard. For a whole year sitting in detainer, it was hard.   Medical [00:22:00] was bad.   my brother and sister never seen me cry before on the phone and they’re like, ” If they not gonna accept you, if they said, ‘ Okay, do you wanna appeal?’   we want you to be happy. We want you to be happy. We want you to… The sound, we hear you, you sound like tired, you’re drained, and I think you’re really going through it right now. You’re really going through it, and we just want you to be happy. If you get deported, well, well, now we still love you. We still love you no matter what.”   I was like, “I know,” but I was expect to go home. My son bought a car for me. He bought a car. He bought a car. He’s like, “Mama, you’re not, you’re not getting deported. I got you a Honda Civic already. I got you a car. I got a place for you.” You know how, how, that affect me when your family member bought you stuff, be thinking that you coming home?   It was, it was sad. it hit me hard towards the point that I’m never gonna go home ever again. I’m never gonna step in America [00:23:00] again. That was my part of my experience going through ICE detainer. But when my… when about time when I’m about to leave, I was a little bit excited, a little bit scared because I don’t know what  going- gonna happen to me. I don’t know how they’re gonna escort me. Uh, you know, I heard so many bad things how they escort people and how the ICE officer don’t care about you.   A lot of bad things. But I come to find out I was really lucky. I was really lucky. I got three wonderful ICE officer. They helped me. They said, ” Hey, ma’am,” because I got my 40-pound box of clothes. They say, “Ma’am, I need you to tell me what’s really important for you to carry on a plane, and what’s not that important, it’s okay if you lose it because you can go…   We end up, uh, riding two flight. We’re gonna make a stop, so we don’t want nothing to be missing that is very important [00:24:00] to you.” So I got my paperwork in my backpack, and something that’s, you know, so dear to me is my kids’ pictures and letters, and other things. I, my clothes, for real, for real, I only have… I make sure I have one extra pair of clothes in my backpack, too.   And the rest of the stuff I was like, “Okay, as long as I got one pair of clothes, I’m fine.” So- The rest, and you know, you know, they was taking time. They were waiting for our pack or I pack my luggage how, the way I want it. they say, “Go ahead, finish packing your luggage. Put your watch on. Put, this, that on because, you know, as long as…   Then you know, you go through a me- metal detector, I need you to take it off. They say, “We’re not gonna cuff you because you’re gonna fly with us. You’re the only one to fly with us, so make sure you have your socks on, your tennis shoes on. Go ahead, put your shoelace.”   They was like, “Whatever make you comfortable, go ahead. But we’re gonna tell you this, if you cause a scene at the airport, we’re [00:25:00] gonna show you. That’s it. That’s all we’re asking. If you give us a smooth ride, we give you a smooth ride. If you get hungry, you get thirsty, let us know. That’s all we can afford for you.   And if you get sick, we could get you meds. We could take you and get meds, but besides that, like anything you wanna buy or you wanna get, you have… It come out your pocket.” they pretty much make it clear for me, if you try to run, you know we’re gonna catch and slam you down.   So I look at it as where, where, where I’m gonna go? Where am I gonna go? I’m on a whole different flight. Haven’t seen the world for 16 years- So I was like, “Oh, whatever.” I was excited, when I first stepped outside, ICE came to pick me up. I’m not gonna lie, ICE came pick me up a day before I parole. a day before I parole. And then when I got shipped and deported, I was from Washington, Seattle, [00:26:00] and I fly a good… I don’t know how long I fly. I sleep throughout the whole flight. Uh, they only wake me up for my meals. I ate my meal. I get three serving on a plane. Every, you know, it’s not just peanut butter sandwich, I, I get to eat what the commercial people eat.   Uh, Uh, they always ask me what I want, roast chicken or something, rice and chicken. I can’t remember, but the food was good. The food was good. The food was better than prison. And it’s way better than, way better than, ICE detainer. I only woke, I only wake up to eat and use the bathroom, and I barely use the bathroom.   Michelle MiJung Kim: That was three years ago during the Biden administration. Since then, Congress and the Trump administration have supercharged ICE with a two hundred billion dollar budget. Pam reminded us many times [00:27:00] that her story is just one experience, that she’s one of the lucky ones. She knows people who have been shackled the entire flight, blocked from using the bathroom.   News reports have shared how people have been forced to soil their seats because they can’t get up. Others have been held in straitjacket-like devices or endured verbal and physical abuse from agents, from agents. Flights can last multiple days, stopping in four, five, or even seven countries.   When Pam was deported, the only thing she knew about Southeast Asia was a f– was a fruit shr– When Pam was deported, the only thing she knew about Southeast Asia was a fruit shr– was a fruit she remember– Uh. When Pam was deported, the only thing she knew about Southeast Asia was a fruit she remembered liking as a small child.   Since then, Pam has slowly rebuilt her life. She… Since then, sh… Since being deported, Pam has slowly rebuilt her life. She has a job and an apartment. We asked Pam about her home in Cambodia now and how she keeps in touch with her big family back in California.   Pam (pseudonym): Like, a little studio with a little sink, but you have to buy your own furniture. And it just a room. It’s just, like, like, almost like a cell, [00:28:00] but you got windows you can open anytime.   You got doors you could go in and out, and it only cost me $50 a month. So that helps. And my food, oh, you know, you know, in a street vendor, if you go buy a street vendor, a bowl of rice, 1,000 riel. 1,000 riel 25 cent, you get a bowl of rice. the vegetable, I only spend, like, I, I mean, I, I mean, I fill up my whole refrigerator with vegetables and it cost me $20, but it last me for two weeks.   You know? not expensive, but if you don’t have no income from your family, it is expensive. But if you have income from your family, support from the state, all the stuff like that, it’s not that expensive. Because American money and the prices here, my paycheck, I only get 500 a month.   But my 500, I get to save 100 a month because I don’t really [00:29:00] need nothing. All I need is food, some clothes, and pay my bills. That’s it. Pay my phone bills, pay my electricity bill, my water bill, and my rent. So… I, And I, I get to save $100 a month. So for that, I say I see is the state, I work for 16 hours and I can’t even save money.   Mm-hmm. But here, I work for from what? 7 to 5, 10 hours. About 10 hours. But I can save my money. So, and it, I’m not gonna lie, when I was over there at the state, I didn’t get no sleep. I didn’t really get no sleep. I usually get two hours sleep. So I came to Cambodia and I sleep, I never sleep this much in my life.   So I feel like, yeah, I gained some weight. I’m not gonna lie. I’m gonna g- I gain, I gained a few weights. But, but I’m okay. I’m okay. Because why? I got a good family, helps me. Mm-hmm. And my mom, she going through [00:30:00] her own little struggle, but she said… This is the thing about my mom. She would never come to step foot in Cambodia again because she lost, she still trigger from, she lost three daughters in Cambodia during that war.   So she said she love me, she care about me, she wish I was in United States, but as much as she love me, she would never willing to step back into Cambodia. So that hurts in a way, but I also I have to understand what she go through as a mother losing her own child, three of her child before I was b- even born.   I have to understand how she go, what she go through.   The only thing that’s different is the time. I told my family, call me at 3:00 o’clock in the morning because I’ll be up getting ready for work, this and that.   I can still put you… You know, I can still talk to you while I’m doing stuff [00:31:00] So that’s what me, my family have a deal. from between 3:00 in the morning to 7:00 in the morning that I could talk to them before my class start, before I start working or whatever. And sometime, you know, when I first got here, I got my phone you know, uh, from Washington because they the one that has people fly over here, people from the group, they fly over here because my son send a phone with them to give it to me.   I still don’t know how the mailing process. I still working on that, how people send stuff from United States to Cambodia. I still don’t know that. I finally know how my family send money to me once in a while. Before, they didn’t have Western Union, they only have MoneyGram. So now they finally have Western Union for us.   two months ago they just finally opened a Western Union, and I don’t know how that works. I don’t know if it works really good or not. I was scared to [00:32:00] try My family try and make everything a negative turn into a positive. You know, try to keep me company and keep me, like, we just wanna s- we just wanna see you free, you happy. they hook me up with, on the Facebook.   They said, ” You know, whenever you got time, wherever you go to do new places, I want you to take video. We wanna see where you at.”   Michelle MiJung Kim: Pam told us that she’s learned to stay busy to take care of her mental health. When she first arrived in Cambodia, she thought to herself, “I need to start crocheting and get some yarn.” Crocheting helps her mental health and to stay strong. Before we continue, I invite you to take a deep breath with me Today, more and more people are sharing their outrage at the inhumane, at the inhumane and cruel conditions of ICE detention.   But this brutality didn’t just start this year. But [00:33:00] this brutality didn’t just start this year. People have been, people have been enduring and pushing for change in the community for a long time. People have been enduring and pushing for change in the community for a long… People have been enduring and pushing for change in the community for a long time.   To help share how, we spoke with Tony, who was first detained by ICE nearly 27 years ago in Los Angeles. He’s still fight, he’s still fighting to keep his family to– He’s still fighting to keep his family together   Tony (pseudonym): Um, my first time I, you know, went to a immigration detention center was back in October of 1999. Went there, you know, you know, for doing a county lid in Los Angeles, California. You know, we call it a county lid because it’s, you know, we took a plea bargain for one year of county time. And I did, like, eight month and 20 day.   From there like, before I got released, ICE came and interviewed me, told me that I got immigration hold, and they will, uh, you know, come and pick me up or detain me and, you know, take me to the processing and all kind, you know. Because, um, I got order to removal. So when I got to ICE in October of ’99, two weeks later I went to court you know, we just [00:34:00] got a court hearing.   There’s no lawyer, no nothing to represent you at all. You just in there solo bolo with the judge, and they ask you, you know, you know, um, how you plea or do you wanna fight your case, or you know, to sign the paperwork for final removal to get, you know, deported back to whatever country we from.   you know, that time it was my first experience going to ICE detention center, so first thing in my head is, like, “No, I’m not going back to my country without a fight.” So, you know, I called my family. They got me a lawyer, and I fought it for a good six month. That’s when, you know, the court make the final decision that I still getting deported.   And it was tough, you know, for my family to come up with the lawyer fee money and stuff, because during that time when I was, uh, incarcerated at, um, at the ICE detention center, there’s no pro bono lawyer, no orientation, any, i- any uh, uh, support group to help us at all. We just in there like a sitting duck, and everybody was going [00:35:00] through h- like, you know.   The feeling of that is more harder than, you know, being locked up in a, in a jail cell or, uh, or doing, you know, doing life, because there’s no release date, and they just like, they drain you all of all your hope and everything. And then, you know. And throughout the whole time, you know, people At the detention center, they went from a normal person to, you know, people go there. At the detention center, they went from a normal to, need mental health issue.   That’s how stressful it is. you know, from there, you know, I stayed there for a good 11 month until people start, like, you know, filing habeas corpus, and they slowly granted us, each one of us, a habeas corpus to go home   So, you know, you know, those are the worst experience I have ever had, and my family was like, you know, keep on asking me, you know, you know, “What’s the next step? What’s the w- what should they do?” I tell them, you know, you know, “Just save your money.” You know, since we lost the case already, “Save your money, you know, just in case I get deported, uh, you know, I have something to start a new life with back in Vietnam even though I don’t have no family and I don’t even have no family over [00:36:00] there, and I don’t even know nothing about Vietnam because I left the country when I was 10 years old.”   it was just like, you know Hard for me to, you know, you know, be far away from my my f- my brother, my sister, and my dad, ’cause, you know, I grew up with a single parent. My mom passed away when I was five years old. My dad raised all four of them, my si- you know, you know, me and my sibling all by himself. So it just emotion and everything washed in, it’s just like, you know, heartbreaking.   So every time, you know, when my dad come to visit me, he always break down and cry because he just like, you know, like, you know, feel sad that his oldest son is gonna get shipped back to his country. that’s my experience from being in an ICE detention center   After I got out, it’s like, you know, they make… They put me on ICE supervision. I started out with, you know, go and check, go check in once a month, from once a month to every three month.   But the feeling of going there to check in is like, you sitting there, each time you go check in, you sitting there, it’s like, you know, you got like a weird [00:37:00] feeling, like a butterfly in your stomach, makes you stress, oh, it’s like, “Oh, are they gonna detain me and ship me back?” And all kind of stuff washing in.   It’s like, it’s just like the mind game they’re playing with you when you’re on supervision. Even though, you know, back in the day, you know, my country, they still don’t accept people to go back or, you know, or anything. But it’s just a feeling that’s like, hey, you know, the law could change. Anything could happen, and it just like, like, you know, slowly break you down inside and outside.   ‘   Tony (pseudonym): once you’re in ICE detention center, they don’t care you have any health issue at all.   Whatever medication they give you is not even, you know, What we call it is like, you know, genetic like, you know, medication, the dose or whatever treatment is not even there. uh, , you have to sign up on um, like a doctor waiting list for you to go see a doctor or s- to go get a checkup.   Because the only way that you g- you get any, um, you know, medical attention is when you drop, when you drop right there on the spot in front of them. [00:38:00] That’s the fastest way for them to, you know, show you me- medical attention. Other than that, we just like, you know, animal locked in a cage, you know. That’s why a lot of people, like, you know, you know, they go on there, they have health issues and stuff, and some, you know, end up, you know, being sick and, you know, die or,  you know, or their, you know, health condition get worse because we don’t have the fair treatment  like, you know, to help us at all.   I have to fight for my, you know, my life every single day because, you know, you know, I got diagnostic with a heart failure back in June of 2018, a day after my son was born. And I went to the emergency room three, uh, three different time. The first time they didn’t detect that I have a health issue or anything at all.   They just, you know, prescribed me some medication. ‘Cause I went there, I told them I have, uh, I got food poison. And, uh, you know, all they concentrates on are the food poison. But I told them I have this you know, like shortness of breath, my legs all, you know, swollen [00:39:00] up. I could not walk more than, you know, 20 step and stuff without, you know, have to take a break.   But I guess the, whatever, you know, the nurse and the doctor, they didn’t d- you know, catch that symptom at all, so… so… they just send me home, prescribed me some medication. And then the second time I went back, same thing. Just give me more medication. Until the third time I went in, I I got, I didn’t even get admitted.   I was still in the gurney waiting for them to do all the testing. Less than 30 minutes later, they came back and told me that I was diagnosed sick with a heart failure, and they have to drain out all the liquor from my body because my body was puffed up like a puffer fish. I was, uh, hospital life for two months fighting for my life because my, um, my heartbeat function, faction, function or faction went down to 12%.   So I have to, you know, breathe, you know, inhale, exhale, do a breathing machine like, you know, for at least a [00:40:00] month for me to get, you know, my strength back and everything.   After I got discharged from the hospital, they don’t wanna be uh, like, liability for me to drive like an hour like and 20 minutes just to go check in. So they want me to do like, like, you know, call them every six months to check in, I’ve been doing that for the past three years already.   But each time I call them to check in, my heart, you know, it just like stop beeping. Like, you know, my heartbeat just stop just to wait for them to say, “Okay, call me back this, this and that date.” You know, and then ever since, you know, Trump became the president, he make everything more worse. And each time, you know, you know, I call just like, like, you know, I get more worry and scared and paranoid   Because it will be hard and everything ’cause you don’t even know, we don’t even know nothing about that country anymore because we get so adapted to the, you know, the environment over here in the United State.   And some of us, you know, you know, might get like, you know, emotional [00:41:00] breakdown and everything when, when, when that day come and, you know, ’cause there’s so many uh, thing going through our head. all we have to do is just, you know, be, be sharp, strong-minded, and and, you know, just have faith And to our family, you know, we just have to pray for the best, and hopefully, you know, you know, the, you know, hopefully down the, down the road, you know, new law change and, you know, the bars that, you know, they deport us back, we could come back, you know, in future, maybe 5 or 10 years down.   You never know. you know, we just have to pray for the best and stick together. Don’t- Don’t give up all hopes and, you know, fight for your freedom   I think what have changed is that, you know, right now you know, people are fighting back and s- you know, ’cause they lost a lot. You know, we lost like, you know, loved one, family members, you know. Um, you know. Um, some lost their parents due to, you know, you know, ICE. And I’m happy, you know, all this you know, all the support group are, you [00:42:00] know, you know, coming out to support the, you know, their own people.   Even though, you know, is they’re not a- you know, you know, like from Southeast Asia, but, you know, we all human being. We have to, you know, stick together and treat each other equally and fairly. Because, you know, when you in ICE detention center, they treat you like animal. They don’t care, you know? Sometime when we got feed, you know, you know, in the middle…   Like outside section was fully cooked, but the middle section was still raw, and then we complained. It’s “Hey, you know, that’s all you have. You eat, either you eat it or you starve.” That’s it. And I’m happy, you know, you know, a lot of have changed, and for us you know, to g- see the better future we all, every, each one of us and our community have to stick together and help each other, you know, as one and be u- you know, united and fight against, you know, whatever is wrong.   Michelle MiJung Kim: According to the latest analysis by the University of Southern California Equity Research Institute, ICE arrests of Asian [00:43:00] and Pacific Islander Californians increased by over 1,000% between 2024 and 2025. A link to this data is included in our show notes. When we talked to Tony, he emphasized the need for solidarity within and across communities as we grapple with immeasurable toll on families, neighborhoods, businesses, schools, and on every thread in the fabric of what makes our lives.   Before we end this episode, I wanna bring in Elijah Chhum, who leads New Light Wellness, one of the community groups Tony mentioned. Who leads New Light Wellness, one of the community groups Tony mentioned. New Light Wellness works closely with the Asian Prisoner Support Committee and other California groups to serve Southeast Asian communities impacted by deportation.   Here’s Elijah.   Elijah Chhum: in 2019, that is when Trump 1.0, um, the administration was really targeting our Cambodian families, um, and targeting them for detention and detainment and deportation, and that is when I joined the [00:44:00] movement.   And I really have to thank the leaders of Asian Prisoner Support Committee, the lawyers of Asian Law Caucus, the faith healers and interfaith healers of Interfaith Movement for Human Integrity, and of course, the wives and mothers and children of the directly impacted folks, um, that came to CERI. And we all coalesced in this moment, um, in February and March, and particularly on March 6th of 2019 when we all came to CERI, which was this old Victorian house in East Oakland, um, by Clinton Park, and we all met in the living room ’cause it was, it was a, uh, community center that was basically in a three-bedroom apartment, um, on the second floor of a Victorian house in East Oakland.   And so 60 of us gathered together all in a circle, um, on the living room floor of CERI, and we were [00:45:00] doing political education. We were listening to elders talk about genocide and talk about resettlement, and then now fearing the worst, that, that this government, you know, this… in America, that they could also endure family separation.   Um, and so that was the moment that changed our lives and changed my life, and that began the seed of New Light Wellness, but at that moment, we were just, you know, um, healers and, and mental health practitioners, um, that tried to provide wraparound care and mutual aid, um, for families also impacted by deportation, um, and that felt isolated at that time.   New Light Wellness emerged as our own organization in the summer of July 2024. We were first a project that was, um, part of a seed grant from New Breath Foundation around the year 2020. And at that moment, um, after… And this was during the pandemic. A little bit before that, you know, in 2019 as I [00:46:00] mentioned, we were first just starting to give wraparound care for impacted families.   Um, during that time, while we were holding the, uh, four impacted individuals and their families in the Pardon Refugee campaign, um, in those three to four months of actions, our- those four community members were detained, um, and most likely were going to be deported. Um, through our advocacy with all the different organizations, as I mentioned, um, which was, you know, bilingual sessions in political education, art builds, uh, getting resolutions passed at city, city council meetings and board of supervisor meetings, um, signing petitions, creating support letter templates, uh, going to the capital and advocating at- with electeds, um,   um, so all of that built our confidence that we can continue to do this and be intentional about this, and focus on anti-deportation and give wraparound care. And so in some ways we felt like we were filling a gap, um, and a need in the movement. And so our work of New [00:47:00] Light Wellness, um, now going to 2020, this was during the pandemic.   We were all trying to scramble how to still give care to… and a community in, you know, in East and West Oakland, um, that so desperately needed us. Um, so we couldn’t stop work. Um, we had to pivot and find ways to, to, um, actually adopt Zoom and give telehealth and connect folks and get our elders to, um- Learn how to use the app and y- learn how to unmute and mute and all the things that, uh, we’re doing now.   Um, and during this moment, um, as we were learning and honing our skills in, you know, virtual telehealth, you know, spaces, um, we received this seed grant from New Breath Foundation just to start something, some virtual program to, um, to focus on folks that do end up getting deported and living in Cambodia.   And around 2020, um, you know, there’s 18 years has passed since, uh, there was a s- uh, since the [00:48:00] Repatriation Act between Cambodia and the US was signed. So for 18 years, our community members have been deported and lived in Cambodia. Um, of course, there has been organizations, uh, on the ground that support folks, um, living in Cambodia, and there are, there have been movements that have come and gone to try to bring people back, um, and fighting their case or reopening their cases.   Um, and at the same time, um- There was a delegation called kites to Southeast Asia, um, composed of different Southeast Asian orgs based in the US that went and did a listening tour. And when they came back, um, their report back was really that they needed or they saw that mental health and wellness was something that was missing, um, as a resource in Cambodia.   And so with New Breath Foundation, the seed grant was please start some type of mental health or wellness support, uh, for folks in Cambodia. And, you know, mental [00:49:00] health is, is a word and, um, a service that is, is often used by licensed clinicians. Um, and, you know, traditional therapy can only be done, um, within the licensure of that licensed clinician within, you know, the state.   And, and so it was really hard for us to then see who, who could offer, offer this wellness support or healing support, and how do we not use mental health or the term mental health, and how do we… And if, if we’re not using licensed or getting the support of licensed clinicians to hold wellness space, then, then what are we doing?   And, and so we really adopted a peer specialist model, a community health outreach worker model, and now it’s evolving to a wellness coaching model. And, and so what are the kinds of things we can do and offer across the seas that is still accountable and responsible to the folks we’re serving,   though we’re not crossing the lines of what is traditional therapy?   Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:50:00] New Light Wellness has grown so much since 2020. We’ll hear even more about their work after a short break.   We’ll hear even more about their work after a short break. You’ve been listening to music by Joe Sin and the Angkor Wat Band. Joe is an elder in Oakland and a leader in the Khmer community. Let’s hear some more [00:51:00] Welcome back.   That was Joe Sin and the Angkor Wat Band.   In our next episode, Elijah will share more about New Light Wellness’s work in California. For now, I asked him to tell us more about the organization’s new community center in designed specifically for people who have been deported from the US   Elijah Chhum: when we hold spaces with our New Light Wellness support groups, and we hold spaces in person at events and in villas and, and, you know, and, you know, we close the door or shut the gate and, you know, our folks are safe inside, they feel at ease.   They feel like they can show off their tattoos or, you know, eat their burgers and fries or have their kids run around and speak English openly and without judgment. Um, so those, just for those few hours that they’re accepted as who they are. Um, and so I know that in Cambodia there needs to be some kind of narrative change and narrative shift so that the local community can understand what [00:52:00] our impacted community went through, what our 1.5 generation went through.   Because in the eyes of the local community in Cambodia, they believe the US is so just and so fair. And so to be deported, they believe and judge our community members for doing something so egregious, um, that they deserved to be deported. And so it’s, it’s a hard conversation, and it’s a hard conversation that our local community has to either be prepared to have or to avoid or, um…   And then sometimes, um- You know, it could be very risky, um, and it could be very negative to have these conversations, especially at, at a place like a workplace. And we’ve heard s- situations where students Google the, um, you know, a lot of our folks get teaching jobs, and, um, the students are very curious about the teacher, of course, ’cause that’s how youth are.   Um, and now we live in an internet age, and, you know, deportation isn’t this, um, you know, marginalized story any longer. It’s very much in the [00:53:00] open, especially in Trump 2.0. So the youth in Cambodia are, are savvy enough to Google folks’ names or, you know, look people up by their images, and they may even out our, our community members, even in the classroom in front of their, in front of the other students.   So, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of different experiences when it, when it comes to our folks facing society in Cambodia. And, you know, some folks may say just to assimilate, that is the best way. You know, be as Cambodian as possible. Cover up your tattoos. Speak Khmer. Marry a Khmer partner. Have Khmer children.   You know, try to let go of all your tastes. Um, and that can help, and that can and has worked for some, but not for everyone. And the road to acceptance of, you know, their fate or the road to acceptance that they are there, the road to healing and even being held a space for grief, the grief of their identity, a grief of loss of, you know, family [00:54:00] relationships, um, is also part of this.   Um, so it’s not a one-size-fits-all, um, for any community member. I think it’s just offering space for folks to hear many stories, actually, um, and different experiences, and it may not be your experience that you have when you arrive in Cambodia. Um, but to honor that, you know, previously, since 2002, some p- some people did not have any resources, so it’s really honoring those that have really survived and lived in Cambodia, some of them for over 20 years now.   And so in some ways, folks that have been deported more recently, um, gets the benefit from, um, the lived experiences and the traumas of those that, that came before them. And so I think it’s learning and relearning together, um, from all the different experiences and honoring those stories of survival, um, and honoring the leadership of those that came before us.   Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:55:00] [00:56:00] Thank you for joining us for this episode of “My Family,” a project by APEX Express and the Asian Prisoner Support Committee. I invite you to move into the rest of your day by taking a moment to honor the stories of survival and the resilience of those fighting the oppressive systems today. The music in today’s program is by Joe Sin, a Khmer elder in California, and the Angkor Wat Band, and the Angkor Wat Band, and one of our favorite songs by Thao.   We’ll include links to these songs and additional resources at kpfa.org/program/APEX-express and asianprisonersupport.com. We hope you’ll join us for the final episode of “My Family” where we’ll deep dive into what happens when people are [00:57:00] forced to move to a country they’ve never known.   Thank you for listening, and we’ll see you next time on “My Family.” I’m your host, Michelle MiJung Kim, and this podcast is brought to you by APEX Express and the Asian Prisoner Support Committee. APEX Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam.   Have a great night, and see you next time         The post APEX Express – 9.17.26- My Family Ep 2: What happens in ICE detention? appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Friday is the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11. 9/11 marked a turning point in American history when two planes were hijacked by extremists who flew into two buildings at the World Trade Center in New York and another at the Pentagon, and two thousand nine hundred and seventy-seven people were killed. It was the deadliest attack on the US since Pearl Harbor sixty years prior. Following 9/11, the US government implemented multiple pieces of significant legislation around curbing and countering terrorism and enemy combatants. Policies such as the USA Patriot Act and the Special Registration Program targeted and disproportionately affected Arabs, South Asians, and Muslims in America. Tonight on Apex Express, in recognition of the twenty-fifth anniversary, we are hearing from members of the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA. Several ASATA members will listen to Apex Express episodes about the impact of 9/11 and share their thoughts. You will hear pieces of shows starting all the way back to two thousand two and as recently as this spring.   LINKS Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA Bay Area Solidarity Summer (BASS) Black Panther Party History   SHOW TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Opening: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It’s time to get on board the Apex Express. [00:00:34] Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. This is Miko Lee, and I’m introducing a show that is recognizing the time that we’re in. And as many of you might know, this Friday is the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11. 9/11 marked a turning point in American history when two planes were hijacked by extremists who flew into two buildings at the World Trade Center in New York and another at the Pentagon, and two thousand nine hundred and seventy-seven people were killed. It was the deadliest attack on the US since Pearl Harbor sixty years prior. Following 9/11, the US government implemented multiple pieces of significant legislation around curbing and countering terrorism and enemy combatants. Policies such as the USA Patriot Act and the Special Registration Program targeted and disproportionately affected Arabs, South Asians, and Muslims in America. Tonight on Apex Express, in recognition of the twenty-fifth anniversary, we are hearing from members of the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA. Several ASATA members will listen to Apex Express episodes about the impact of 9/11 and share their thoughts. You will hear pieces of shows starting all the way back to two thousand two and as recently as this spring. So stay tuned to Apex Express and reflections on the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11.   [00:02:06] Arati: Hi everyone. Welcome. Can you please introduce yourselves?   [00:02:09] Hafsa: Hey everyone. My name is Hafsa. I’m here from ASATA.    [00:02:13] Palvinder: Hi all, Palvinder Kaur a Sikh community organizer here in Sacramento.   [00:02:19] Priya: Hi, I’m Priya. I’m also an organizer with ASATA and a teacher based in Oakland.   [00:02:23] Arati: We’re gonna start listening to our clips now.    [00:02:25] Speaker 5: I can clearly remember my parents repeating, “Please don’t let it be a Muslim. Please don’t let it be a Muslim,” while watching the news. I didn’t process at age five the type of impact this would have on my family, but as I got older, those words stuck with me as I watched police outside our mosques and soldiers touching down in Muslim countries around the globe.   [00:02:45] George W. Bush: Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward.    [00:02:50] Speaker 7: I got a call after the first tower had been hit.    [00:02:53] Speaker 8: I was right here. My roommate was like, “Hey, man. Wake up. You should watch this.”    [00:02:59] Speaker 9: My mom called me at 7:00 in the morning, and whenever my mom calls, I always think, “Oh, God,” you know? “What happened,” right? And my immediate reaction was, Bush has got his war now.    [00:03:10] George W. Bush: Make no mistake, the United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts.   [00:03:25] Speaker 9: Pretty much as soon as the towers fell and it was determined to be a terrorist act, people were talking about Pearl Harbor, you know, day of infamy and making all those parallels. And of course, there was that immediate fear of backlash against Arab Americans. But what’s the point of revenge? It’s not gonna bring the people who died back. It’s not gonna prevent future attacks, in my opinion. If anything, it might create the conditions for more hatred.    [00:03:55] Speaker 10: It is heartbreaking when you hear somebody who’s not even a Muslim or Arab got killed in Arizona who just happened to wear this traditional clothes.   [00:04:10] Speaker 9: Within the first week, I started seeing reports on the internet about hate crimes that occurred in San Francisco.   [00:04:15] Speaker 11: Arab American Discrimination more than two hundred incidents of hate crimes. Six of these people died.    [00:04:30] Speaker 7: My mom actually called me and she was like, “Shave your beard,” you know, like, “Don’t do anything stupid.” My partner actually from Urban Groove, is a Sikh, and he was in Pittsburgh at the time, and he called me up and he said, “I’m scared for us right now.” I can’t even go to the library. I can’t even go to the gym. People are looking at me funny just getting in your car and going outside. You know, at that time we realized the education that really needed to come to a lot of Americans that Muslim or not, these are not people that blew up the World Trade Center. These are not people that hurt other Americans. You know, these are our friends, our coworkers, our family.   [00:05:15] Speaker 12: It took me a while to find my voice and publicly react and respond to the events at the close of 2001. Part of that has to do with the memory of how irrational Americans become during times of war. I didn’t wanna be on any blacklists, be monitored, stand out.    [00:05:34] Speaker 8: One of the things that I thought was really ironic was the question the media posed to the, the public. You know, how could this happen to us? Well, kind of stop and look at the history of our foreign policy. It’s pretty evident in why something like this would happen.    [00:05:50] Speaker 9: I didn’t feel like I was being disrespectful, and I didn’t think that I was somehow, like, less American for also criticizing the government. But then again, the appropriate response is that we all just fall in line behind the Bush administration, whatever they do. It doesn’t matter. Civil liberties are trampled. This is the appropriate response. You know, this is the way we show our patriotism.   [00:06:12] Arati: So most of those clips were from Robyn Takayama’s 2002 documentary in which she’s using different community voices to explore her own discovery of what patriotism looks like. It starts with, like, a small cut from the 20th anniversary, and then the rest of that is from these series of immediate reactions and lived experiences from Robyn’s documentary. So reflecting on when this documentary was released, 2002, and where we are now, what still feels resonant? Does anything feel stale or stuck in time, or are there things that you’re still like, “Yeah, that’s really where we’re at now”?    [00:06:43] Hafsa: I think for me, growing up with the Muslim community in Southern California, I remember 2002 being a very scary time as the people in this audio clip are kind of sharing. And I think now I don’t feel as stranded as an American Muslim in America as I did at that time. And to provide context, I was 11 years old at that time, and I could feel the fear from people older than me and, even my friends as we would go to recess, and we would think we’d get sniped down by someone who’s, like, looking out for us because we’re little Muslim kids. yeah, I think that’s something that I can definitely feel, where I don’t feel stranded. I don’t feel like there are, there is a lack of other communities who’ve been harmed who can also make bridges with us.    [00:07:34] Arati: Yeah. Thanks, Hafsa.    [00:07:35] Palvinder: Yeah, similarly, I was, I was a teen as well, probably 11. I grew up Sikh. My dad wore the star, a turban. I remember seeing it on the news. And I didn’t really register for me for about a little bit of time until, like, the first racist comment was made towards my dad or we heard about, the Arizona death. It wasn’t until, you know, Brown communities, Sikh communities, uh, Muslim communities were targeted, anyone who looked Muslim, right, And so for me, I think at the time, it took a while to fully register. But, you know, once it did, it was like, oh, this isn’t about it just being a Muslim. It’s like people are just perceiving anybody. And, as I grew up, I realized, the need for, communities not to say like, “Oh, but we’re not Muslim,” you know? And I think that was like a really strong push from a lot of the Sikh community organizers, reflecting back on it. But of course, you still have folks who are in the community who are just like trying to say, “But we’re not Muslim.” And that’s a, that was a problem. You know, I wanna call out that, that problematic nature, and I think the same thing happens today when we see it around communities who have different immigration statuses. and it’s like, oh, we might be X, Y, Z race, but we’re not. You know, we’re, we’re American, or we were born here, we’re a citizen. And it’s just like, but why are we othering ourselves? So I still see some of those similarities around othering. I struggle with it because I can understand from the perspective of, you know, some of the individuals trying their best, working hard, and wanting to not be targeted, but at the same time, like, it’s not the right thing to do. I think we’re seeing a lot more, collaboration now, I would say, a lot more shifting in the narrative. I know we’ve had a lot of conversations across, the Sikh community over the past two and a half decades around the problem with othering ourselves from other races and other, other identities. And so I, I think that’s one aspect of it, but I still see that same sort of nature, right? Like, um, when an attack happens or when there’s a shooting, it’s constantly like, don’t let it be a interracial identity or immigration identity, right? and, I feel like the media continues to fail us, like the narratives around people of color, immigrants, is just very dehumanizing. and somehow, white folks get humanized in all of the actions that they’re taking. I do feel like there’s a media component to it, and we have to call that out. The one thing that, you know, when one of the individuals had shared that they were like falling in line, I think about just the over-surveillance that’s occurring and the way that social media recordings and just everything going live in public, you know, the need to be vocal, but there is a sort of line, right, that we all know that we shouldn’t cross, and the fear of being seen as un-American.   [00:10:15] Arati: Thank you, Balvinder.   [00:10:16] Priya: I can briefly add on to what was shared. Something you said, Hafsa, really struck me that when you were 11 years old, even going to recess was something that created a culture of fear, and honestly, I still see that in some of my students. When there were threats of ICE in the Bay Area, my classroom was empty. I mean, like, 90% of students didn’t come to school that whole week. That culture of fear still exists, among, like, Black and brown communities, even here in the Bay. but we have made a lot of connections with each other as people of color in our organizing histories. But the culture of fear is still salient.   [00:10:51] Arati: Thanks, Priya. Do you feel like there’s stuff, you know, a lot of these were current day organizers still 25 years later reflecting on their experiences. Are there pieces of the strategy that we still feel like are salient and that we want to bring with us and continue implementing in 2026?   [00:11:06] Hafsa: I think the communities that reach out to each other, that’s something that’s still working out for us now. I remember the Japanese community reached out to our masjid because they had been interned. Like, they were in internment camps, and they knew what it felt like to be othered in America in a very vile way. And I remember learning, oh, wow, like, A) there’s a big Japanese community in Southern California, and B) they are so resilient that they care enough to reach out to us even though they went through all this already, and now they wanna show us or they wanna be there for us in whatever capacity. So I think, like, as we grow and go through these traumatic events, whatever we learn, there’s a resilience that we build when we reach out to other communities.    [00:11:55] Arati: Yeah, absolutely. All right, we’re gonna move to our next set of clips. this is gonna be a little heavy, but there’s some really incredible stuff in here thinking about the organizing that is birthed of necessity, and a lot of the Sikh coalition’s actions in the immediate aftermath, and specifically Asata’s actions here in the Bay Area.   [00:12:11] Speaker 8: At the end of the day, necessity is the mother of invention. On the day of 9/11 Sikhs in New York, where the Sikh Coalition is based, saw hate crimes occurring the afternoon of 9/11. Three members of our community were literally chased through the streets of Manhattan. The afternoon of 9/11, an elderly man was beaten to the point of having broken bones, and Sikh young children were shot with paintball guns. And so the night of, we issued a press release grieving against attack on the country and calling on a police to protect our community from hate crimes. Our first real action beyond the press release on the night of 9/11 was to create a website where community members could report hate crimes and other forms of discrimination that were occurring to them. And within that first month after 9/11, more than three hundred people logged in and, and reported acts of discrimination. Everything from, from people who had been shot at, one gentleman who was murdered, to beatings, school bullying, employment discrimination alike. And we really used the information there to get the word out to the media and the policymakers that we have a real problem that needs to be addressed immediately.   [00:13:24] So I think, you know, the heart of the activism in that first month was really creating a space for people to report what was happening and then using that information to call for change. We were able to persuade the, the city of New York to create a regulation on school bullying where none existed before, and where school administrators are required to track bullying incidents and keep statistics on them. They have to ma– use all means they possibly can to take non-punitive measures. And that regulation protects one point one million students in the public school system in New York City, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, national origin, religion, and the like. We were just able to get the New York City mayor to sign a bill that raises the bar for when employers can reject a request for religious accommodation in the workplace. Post 9/11, Sikhs have been barred from a number of jobs, including city jobs, because of their turbans. And if you wanna work for the public transit system, you have to brand your turban or if you’re a Muslim, your hijab, with a Metropolitan Transportation Authority logo. And so we were able to get the mayor to sign a bill last week that basically bans most of those practices. And again, it protects literally millions of New Yorkers who work in the city from discrimination based on religion in the workplace. But at the end of the day, it’s again, a regulation that pushes back on the government being able to do whatever it wants and creates a space for anyone to enjoy those protections.   [00:14:50] Speaker 13: So in the Bay Area, ASATA members distributed multilingual know your rights flyers and provided legal support in collaboration with other activist groups, such as the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee, the former ADC in San Francisco, the National Lawyers Guild, Council of American-Islamic Relations and the Progressive Bengali Network, and ASATA members provided support by taking down the contact information of the men standing outside the Department of Justice to register so as to notify families in case they were detained or disappeared, and also provided information about free legal resources.    [00:15:28] Speaker 14: There’s a really moving testimony of a young Muslim girl from Seattle, Washington. Her and her mother were held in detention for, I think, nine months- Mm … without charges or anything, and her mother actually almost died while they were in detention. It was just such a traumatic experience, and I mean, we really need to let these stories be heard.    [00:15:46] Speaker 15: I wanted to point something out, that the figures from May 2003 from the INS or BCIS say that the number of people registered as of May 11th, 2003, were 82,581. Number of people detained, and these are their figures, so who knows what the real figures really are, 2,761. Number of people still detained at that time, 158, and the number of people charged with terrorism-related crimes, zero.    [00:16:19] Speaker 16: Reports indicate that some of those taken into custody were harshly treated. They were handcuffed, shackled, placed in cold cells without adequate clothing or blankets, blankets, forced to sleep standing or on concrete floors, hosed down with cold water, and denied adequate food and water.    [00:16:40] Speaker 17: And I would like to ask for volunteers because when we monitor, when we stand here and monitor people, there are less detentions, there are less questions, and people get done quickly. Some people are afraid to go alone, and they can take a companion with them. If we want safety and security, we cannot buy it by terrorizing other people. We need to change our thinking. We need to change our ways. As superpowers, we need to start empowering people, not taking them away, not putting them in prisons, not detaining. This country has become so secretive. Secret evidence, secret detentions, secret deportations. Everything is secret except our privacy. So we need to really take our country back.   [00:17:32] Arati: Okay. So that was a little longer and definitely somewhat heavy. but I think it’s really interesting to hear how people were talking about this, especially post 9/11, and how they were talking about the country in general, and then their work in specific. What things stood out to you from how our communities were able to spring into action immediately post 9/11?   [00:17:49] Palvinder: I was a teen, so to me, as I learned all of the immediate action that was taken, it was really incredible and inspiring, so many different areas of it, right? Raising awareness around the detentions, trying to create that website. Working on school policies. Like, there was so much that was happening, and so much that continues to happen. Great to see community springing into action. I also struggled for so long in my early organizing days, being frustrated that these systems were not created for us, these policies were not created for us. And then when you learn so many of the policies were literally created against us- post 9/11, the over-policing, the over-targeting, it was just so challenging, right? Like, we have already so much, so many more challenges that we’re dealing with, and then here we have additional barriers to just kind of living a, a decent life here. But you know, still continue to be inspired by, the way that folks sort of look to heal the community and support. And so I think that, like, one of the things I think about is, is the community within the communities that we were able to create that culture of healing, as much as possible, and then also thinking about the greater change and sort of protections for our community. I struggle with the hate crime stuff, you know, and the data there because, you know, there’s so much around how data is used. Is it used in a beneficial way? Is it even, you know, supporting anything that’s gonna create some real change? and then of course there’s a surveillance question. But again, like I truly feel that folks thought this was coming from a good place. Um, and so I just continue to be mindful around the tactics that we’re using, being mindful of like going fast but also being thoughtful and considerate around how these might impact us in the long run. And I, I hope that we continue to look at that. not just finding sort of immediate solutions that might work for us now, but seeing the long-term impact of them too.    [00:19:34] Arati: Yeah, totally. Would love to hear folks’ thoughts on this as well, and also I’m curious, I’ve, I’ve now heard a few of you say a couple times just like what it meant to be a child at the time, and yeah, maybe not actually being tapped in in that moment of what organizing and activism was taking place when you were that young. But I’m curious also about kind of hearing about it more, and I’m sure as you grew up but also now as an adult, kind of what, how you feel like that maybe has shaped you.    [00:20:00] Hafsa: It’s great to hear that there was a collection of bullying and racism happening in schools and that being reported because 100% I’m sure each of those data points represents so many other unreported happenings. For reference, I went to high school in Huntington Beach, California. I did not know the demographics of that area until I left high school, and it helped me understand my experiences there, especially with the teachers who were allowed to be racist. One of the only books in my history teacher’s class was a book about how the Quran is false. He was a white man, Christian white man, and this was a history class. and he was a beloved teacher, beloved. And this is just one of many things that happened and that went unreported because we thought, oh, we are lesser than them. We do have to stick together. This is how they talk to us in front of us and behind our backs. So I remember hanging out exclusively with other Muslim students who also wore hijab because that’s who we were pushed into a corner and you look around and that’s who’s there. And I remember going to the masjid and every time there was someone who didn’t quite look Arab or South Asian or generally Muslim, if it’s like a white person entering the masjid, I’m thinking, “Is that a government operative?” And it was sometimes. Every masjid I knew had at least one person who was hella shady, and they were spying on us, and I wonder where that data lives right now.    [00:21:30] Arati: Yeah. Absolutely. And that’s hard not to think about in the surveillance state we’re living in now.   [00:21:36] Priya: I was only three when 9/11 happened, but as an organizer now, I am really looking back on how our communities showed up for each other and provided like mutual aid relationship building, and that’s the kind of organizing that I wanna build on now in the Bay Area. So the way that like we showed up and we did know your rights in different languages and we, you know, took people’s names down, like we’re still doing that, and that’s the kind of work that I like want us to keep doing and that I feel really proud to be a part of. We have ICE watch at our school where neighbors walk around our school every single morning for an hour, and they have their whistle ready. So if they see ICE, they know how many times to blow the whistle, and we will, you know, spring into action immediately. But yeah, that kind of like relationship building and my neighbor’s got my back, and I’ve got yours, and we’re like in this together, and, and we live together, but we also like know each other’s names, and we know what it means to keep each other safe because that’s not what the government is doing for us. That’s what stands out to me from post 9/11 organizing, and that’s what I wanna build on.    [00:22:46] Palvinder: Yeah, echoing that. Community and connection and relationship building and healing. I remember specifically there was, in Fresno, Piara Singh, an elderly Sikh man, got attacked. And, our first thing was like, “Okay, what do we do? Like, how do we heal as a community as well?” Of course, the news media attention is there forefront for, like, a day or two, maybe a week max. but you know, when the individual recovers, or they are gonna be recovering, there’s really not much attention after that. And for us, it was really like, how do we allow our elders to feel safe, right? How do we allow our community to feel safe, that same walk that this individual is taking, you know? And so I think there was components around that about healing, but also wanting to move fast. I think one of my greatest lessons would just be, centering healing and community and relationship building throughout all of it. no matter how fast we wanna go or how quickly we need to go, I just think about the need to center that. And I think more and more trying to find ways when we aren’t springing into action about how we can implement some of that and make sure that that’s also centered to the work that we’re doing.   [00:23:51] Arati: Yeah. I’m curious if anyone has any thoughts on pieces of the specific organizing that was happening that feel maybe relevant. I’m thinking about the non-punitive bullying measures, the non-discrimination activities that had broad benefits, monitoring for safety and security, the description of the detention conditions. I know we’ve touched on some of these already, but I wonder if there’s anything else that’s coming up when people are thinking about strategizing and coalition building in 2026.   [00:24:16] Hafsa: All the information I got as a child was through gossips and rumors from elders who were talking, and they were saying, “Hey, we have CIA operatives in the masjid. Hey, we might be attacked. You gotta watch out.” So I think just that sort of conversation or that kind of community interaction is so important because the media wasn’t telling me how to save my butt. It was telling me that I’m a scary person, and I’m gonna grow up to do something terrible one day. And I couldn’t find an ounce of that within me, so.   [00:24:51] Arati: All right. Thanks everybody. Let’s move to our next clip. speaking of media, perfect transition. this is a reflection around the 10-year anniversary of 9/11, and a lot of the audio in these clips are actually thinking about when the media started talking to us rather than just about us.   [00:25:07] Speaker 19: It’s the first time we actually have media approaching us around the time of the anniversary asking us what have been the effects on our communities. Uh, whereas before it would, you know, sort of be focused very much around the families that were directly affected by 9/11 and occasionally we’d get a call to check in about, oh, you know, are you– is your community facing any backlash? We’ve received a decent number of media requests talking about what the last ten years have been like. What have the various ways that our communities have been affected. And at the same time, uh, you know, I think a lot of the exposés in particular that have been criticizing what law enforcement and government agencies have done in the last ten years, a lot of those have seemed to come out in the last, uh, couple of weeks. Mother Jones did a extensive special on, uh, the FBI and their use of undercover agents and informants across the country. The AP has been doing a series, uh, the Associated Press has been doing a series on the NYPD, their collaboration with the CIA and, and their, uh, mapping of Muslim communities in New York. NPR has been doing stories and, and that it seems that they– there is an interest in the media to sort of be more critical, uh, slightly more critical of law enforcement agencies and, uh, starting to demand some form of transparency and accountability that so far they were just given a free leeway to do whatever they wanted, and everything was justified in the name of protecting, uh, our cities. Uh, but now there’s starting to be some questions are starting to be raised.   [00:26:48] Arati: Yeah, I feel like this kind of feels really specific in terms of what we were just talking about, and it draws us back into that idea. and I’m curious about if we have reflections on how movement work has changed, especially now that we do have to kind of consider how to engage with the current media apparatus and how does responding to what the media is saying about us, trying to work with the media to share out different kinds of messaging, is that something that folks are thinking about?   [00:27:11] Priya: It just reminds me of how like three weeks ago it came out that the federal government was spying on organizing activities in Minnesota among unions, among organizers. Like this is … no surprise this is still happening, but it can be helpful to look back and, and think about how our communities have experienced this before, and how we came together and how we can prevent it. Or just be more aware of the possibility that it will continue to happen.   [00:27:40] Palvinder: I think the common thing that I kinda see in, my perspective of it is, like, in the moment when something happens, it’s constantly the same thing, right? Oh my gosh, let’s go talk to the community, and, like, media wants to paint their narrative of it, right? Questions are very specific. and then there’s, like, a timeframe where the reflection happens, right? 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years later. And it’s like, oh, let’s see the impact on the community. Let’s see how they’re affected. But in the moment, when the opportunity is so prime, like, we don’t really have that. I mean, I think more and more I’ve seen folks, even in, like, media trainings with the community. And so I’ve really appreciated when folks don’t actually answer those questions, and they just shift their response to what they really wanna get across because that’s really what our community wants to share. You know, we don’t wanna just always answer the question and kind of fill the narrative that the media wants in the moment. but really, like, sharing it from our perspective. And so just greater need to write our own histories, document what’s happening. I think we’re so caught up in the moment sometimes that we don’t even do that. And of course, there’s a balance, right, of, action is being taken, what sort of impact those, taking photos or videos of those actions have as well. I just really think that we need to continue to make sure that the stories and the narratives that we want to share even in the moment are shared. and so flipping that script is really great for folks who can do that. I’m not an expert on that. I hope to be one day. But, yeah, just wanna also acknowledge that the reflection piece is, when I feel like the media starts talking to us.   [00:29:14] Hafsa: Yeah, I think, something that I’ve shifted within myself because, just, talking to media and, you know, being able to represent myself and my community, that’s not something that’s within my skillset. Like, that’s not something I definitely work on. But what I do love to work on is increasing representation of people who look like us in other areas. And I think back as 11-year-old American Muslim immigrant growing up in America, what did me and my friends need? And something that we didn’t have access to was really, like, the outdoors and nature, and that is just the number one healing thing, and that’s something that a lot of immigrant communities cannot find when we come to America ’cause we are put in areas that don’t have nature, where it’s redlined districts or places that we can afford. They don’t have access to nature. So something I like to do is try to organize for those communities to get us out in nature and feel safe because when we can feel safe in the world alone, we can feel ourselves in a way that we can’t when we hear media tell us that we are scary or we are worthless or whatever else. It’s a great place to unwrap those lies and really feel ourselves.    [00:30:22] Arati: That’s a beautiful reflection. I really appreciate you thinking about what you needed as a child, what our communities need, and, what, what it feels like to work with the media, but also to be like, ” That might not be our friend.” So how do we protect ourselves from the media? Thank you for sharing that.   [00:30:37] Palvinder: I’ll also just quickly add on the media piece, and this is like a definitely based off my, my experiences. There are certain folks who have access to media, you know, in the community. There are certain folks and organizations who the media will always go to. And, you know, I understand they’ve built those relationships, they’ve invested those resources, and I would just really encourage, you know, and continue to encourage those folks to really think about the folks who are on the ground doing the work as well, and giving opportunity to those voices as well when they want them. cause of course, not all organizers and activists want those, opportunities. But, I just think that it’s important to share the diversity of voices amongst the community, and while many of those who have access and privilege with media, they are very niche. and yes, they’re eloquent in their speaking, they’re great at sort of getting what message they want across, but we’re also very diverse communities. You know, there are some folks who are gonna pick up the pen and then others who are gonna go to the streets, you know, and organize. There’s others contacting decision-makers. So it just all depends. But, yeah, I would just really encourage our communities to really think about, sharing the mic really.   [00:31:46] Arati: Okay. Thanks so much for sharing that. These are really, really incredible reflections. Um, we’re gonna move to our next set of clips. A lot of this is gonna be audio from a massive Stop Urban Shield demonstration in 2014, which is nested inside of an interview with Zahra Billoo from CAIR or the Council on American Islamic Relations. So we get to hear from Zahra, we get to hear from the Stop Urban Shield work, which was happening right here in the Bay Area, and, um, I’m excited to hear y’all’s thoughts.   [00:32:14] Speaker 20: I think a, a really huge local victory for Bay Area residents to celebrate is all of the organizing that happened to push back Urban Shield. I don’t know if folks are familiar with Urban Shield, but it’s essentially like a massive law enforcement training exercise where they train SWAT teams and sell weapons and, you know, military-grade weaponry for domestic police agencies. And so when you wonder why the local police department in Ferguson has a tank or things of that sort, or why people are dying because police are using military-grade weapons, a lot of that’s happening in this culture of this Urban Shield convention, and so it’s been coming to Alameda County for a couple of years now.   [00:32:54] Speaker 21: On the second day of Urban Shield, community members filled the intersection of 10th and Broadway, just outside of the Marriott where the vendor show was taking place.   [00:33:11] Speaker 23: Can you read the sign that you’re holding?    [00:33:15] Speaker 22: Don’t shoot. From Ferguson, Gaza to Oakland, our homes are not war zones.    [00:33:21] Speaker 23: Simi Makhijani. I’m here with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action. We’re out here to stand in solidarity with all those that are targeted by state-sponsored violence, whether at the hands of Oakland, Ferguson, New York Police Department, or the drone attacks on Pakistan, or the struggles against Zionism in Palestine or Hindu supremacy in India. After September 11th here, in terms of surveillance and unwarranted detentions of Muslims and those mistaken as Muslims in the Sikh population, and in other countries from Kashmir to Gujarat to Gaza, you know, the attacks on Muslims. We haven’t always been recognized or as visible as we should be in standing together, walking together in these struggles here, and it’s the primary reason that we’re trying to be here, because it’s really important that non-Black communities of color not be silent on this issue.   [00:34:13] Speaker 21: Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders came out in force, and nearly everyone I spoke with made links between the militarization of police in our communities in the US and the militarism perpetuated by the US throughout Asia.    [00:34:26] Speaker 24: The increasing brutality of the local police and the paranoia about terrorist attacks stems directly from the attack on the Twin Towers. Of course, giving local police military-grade equipment is older than 9/11, but we’ve seen an upswing in funding from the Department of Homeland Security. So in that way, Urban Shield is one facet of the war on terror.    [00:34:45] Speaker 20: There was a really great coalition that formed on the ground in the Bay Area, primarily out of Oakland and San Francisco, that said, “Look, you can’t push violent policing in our community, that we’re not going to let you use Oakland as a base for that kind of development and activity.” And so they organized for a couple of months leading up to it, and then around the convention last weekend, there were very large rallies and huge visibility events. They also got a couple of people to move their events from the Oakland Marriott, which is where the convention was happening. And as a result, the, the news or the rumor out right now is that Urban Shield will not be returning to the Bay Area. And even if it does, I always find victories even in the organizing, right? Getting hundreds if not thousands of people out to push back against violent policing, against civil liberties erosion is a very big deal. And so if folks wanna learn more about that campaign, they can simply Google Stop Urban Shield.   [00:35:41] Arati: I just think there’s so many incredible moments in that and, that was a big win in 2014. In thinking, in particular about how the speakers described Urban Shield as an extension of the surveillance state and as an extension of the war on terror, and then about the campaign itself around that event, I’m wondering what lessons the current day movement organizers can take from this.   [00:36:01] Palvinder: I think the biggest thing is probably that it’s not in a vacuum, right? there’s a lot of other movements that are very similar. There’s a lot of other things that are a part of these larger systems, right? specifically, it was mentioned as the war on terror, right? So this is just one part of that, one facet of it, and I think it was really great that there was specific call-out for Ferguson, Gaza, other international movements as well across the globe, and I think that that’s super critical, in the organizing work that we do. As much as we feel like our local communities might be targeted, this is all part of a greater system. It’s not happening in a vacuum, and we have so much to learn from the organizing that’s happening in those areas as well.   [00:36:39] Hafsa: Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. I think something that helped me get through the time post 9/11 was just realizing that this has happened in America before, like many different times, specifically to the African American community. And I remember reading about Malcolm X, reading about Martin Luther King and thinking, “Oh, these are people who can be my role models. I don’t look like them, but I’m pretty sure I feel things that they felt.” And even, like, reading bell hooks or Du Bois, like they didn’t look like me, but we shared a similar struggle, and I hope that in the future someone can look at our community, and maybe they don’t look like us, but they will say, “Hey, these people fought for the same thing I did,” and it was basically against America’s attack on human rights, which has been happening since America was founded.   [00:37:27] Arati: I know for me, one of the reasons it feels great to listen to this clip is because right now it feels like we’re just in a cacophony of oppression, right? Like, every single day there are these new policies, new initiatives, absurd tweets, just so much messaging coming, and so many policies also happening that we’re constantly contesting with. We’re constantly trying to fight against. And, it can feel really hard. It can feel really hopeless. And I guess I’m curious about how we can think about these examples of, like, local work, like Urban Shield or any other work that you’ve engaged in recently, and think about how does, that local, work on the ground help fit into this larger thread or this national moment around liberation   [00:38:07] Hafsa: I also very much appreciate that these communities were able to show up to stop things like Urban Shield, because specifically, like in my experience growing up in the Muslim community, I was just so much in my corner just trying to survive that I wouldn’t even be able to think about this larger picture of what’s happening on the local government le- level that’s going to affect me and my kids or whomever else. So I really appreciate that recognition of solidarity and people showing up and saying, “Hey, I know someone who hurts more than me and I’m gonna go out to the streets and stand up for them and protest for them.” ‘Cause I think that’s something that’s also helped me even when my community has been demonized. It’s always think about someone else who’s been demonized more than you and make that my fight song rather than my own experiences, because that can be a little harder.   [00:38:55] Palvinder: I think the other thing for me is realizing that when folks can’t show up, there’s other avenues too, right? So not everyone has to be in the streets protesting or showing up to these causes. I think about the need to make sure that our organizing is accessible for all people, and that accessibility looks different. I feel like especially when I was in my, like, 20s, I felt like showing up at protests and, at organizing events was the main way. And if you weren’t there, you weren’t down for the cause. And I think for me, I learned very quickly that there were reasons why they actually couldn’t go and show up there, you know, for their own safety. Just the need to be able to have those different actions so organizing can be accessible.   [00:39:33] Hafsa: And I think having CAIR as an organization has been really great. That’s been a constant in my life. It was pretty new when I was younger, and I’m so glad that it’s still up and running and they’re still, like, you know, fighting the good fight. and Balvinder like what you’re talking about, like how not everyone can show up to a protest. I remember my first protest, and I told myself at the time, it’s my last protest. It was with the Sierra Club in Huntington Beach, and it was a silent protest on the Iraq War. And I was one of two hijabis. The other one was my friend. Everyone else was white, and we were supposed to be silent, walking down Huntington Beach. And who was targeted? It was me by other white people, racists. And I’m like, “I’m silent protests. Don’t talk. I don’t know what to do.” And I was, like, 17, 18, and I was like, “I’m never doing this again.” So I’m so glad that organizations like CAIR are there and I can actually organize in the Bay Area with people who look like me rather than being told how to organize by people who don’t understand my struggle, don’t understand my experience, and won’t stand up for me when they see something go wrong.   [00:40:36] Arati: Oh my, oh my-    [00:40:37] Palvinder: Yeah. Oh, oh my gosh. I would not have shown up to any protest if that was my only experience with a protest. I would’ve been like, “No, these people are all crazy,” and like, “Where’s my community at?”    [00:40:47] Hafsa: Oh my- No, I switched to anarchism after that. I was like, “No, the Democrats don’t have it figured out. I cannot… Y’all don’t understand me. You want to maybe, but that’s it.”   [00:40:59] Arati: Yeah. I feel like at this point I’m like, if there’s a protest, we need to have a safety training. We need to know what are the people’s risk tolerances. I’m so sorry that happened to you. That is wild. But it’s also… I mean, sadly, it’s not unique. I think a lot of people have a story of being, like, at a protest and then not being protected. So yeah, how are we, how are we really thinking about how we’re protecting ourselves and our community, for sure.    [00:41:21] Hafsa: Yeah, and it was a good experience because the Sierra Club fights for land, and knowing that they don’t necessarily fight for me gives me information that, hey, I have to do that fight because I’m in environment. I’m a field biologist, so that’s something I keep in mind, I think. I’m one of the few people who can actually understand the struggles of the animals and the humans, and that’s very rare.   [00:41:41] Arati: Do we have any other thoughts on the Bay Area specifically and how we might be positioned in the Bay to support this fight for liberation?   [00:41:48] Hafsa: I moved to the Bay Area because I saw that there was a solidarity there that wasn’t quite there in Southern California where I lived, in Orange County, and I wanted to learn more from that because I didn’t wanna just hang out with people who look like me. I wanted to hang out with people who had all these different kinds of experiences with the American government, with being discriminated against, because The answer is there. It’s between all of us. It’s not within our little silos of community. It’s when we all connect together, and that’s also what brought me to joining ASATA as well.   [00:42:17] Priya: I echo that. I also grew up in SoCal in a really white, wealthy suburb called Manhattan Beach, which sounds not too dissimilar from Huntington Beach. And yeah, the message of solidarity that the Bay Area really espouses is what brings me here. And, the way that we show up for each other in the Bay feels uniquely inspiring. Whether it’s Urban Shield, whether it’s like, oh, there’s a Muslim ban, we’re at SFO within like hours. Oh, we’re gonna, accompany people to their ICE court hearings. Like, I really feel like we just show up in unique ways. And yesterday I did canvassing for ICE Out of Dublin, and it’s, that similar message of like we’re out here, we’re talking to neighbors. And like Balvinder said, there are so many ways that you can show up for each other, but we have a history of doing it.    [00:43:03] Arati: I love that. This takes me right to the next thing I wanted to talk about, which is, a lot of people organizing now don’t have a living memory of 9/11, right? And so we’re gonna listen to some clips, from Deepa, who’s a community organizer, and Fahd Ahmed, who was the legal and policy director of Desis Rising Up and Moving. And, they both have some kind of reflections around social movements, young organizers, and, yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna think a little bit about that as we continue to, like, look forward.   [00:43:29] Speaker 19: Social movements have always been the main vehicle for change whether in the United States or the world abroad. And and the power of social movements is that the democratic potential that you build, the people’s political awareness that you build, the power that you build doesn’t dissipate away just based on an election. Doesn’t dissipate based on the changing of a person in power and that if we really had truly strong social movements that built coalitions, built alliances as were discussed earlier, that those movements retain power through various ups and downs, through various issues. And if those movements are infused with a deeper political understanding, historical awareness, that they can be very powerful in holding government accountable. While all these sorts of acts may happen, blowbacks may happen, backlash may happen, at the end of the day, we– the best– the government is the only place that we can hold accountable through our taxes, through our votes, through our social mobilization.   [00:44:33] Speaker 25: Some of the young folks that are entering or working at nonprofits now, supporting South Asian nonprofits don’t have a living memory of 9/11 and the global war on terror, and they have been politicized in different ways, right, over the last eight years, for example, the pandemic, global wars, etc. And so there are a couple of ways in which I’ve been thinking about how we can support South Asian young people. So for example, how can we share historical analysis and political analysis so that young people understand that they are part of a trajectory of South Asian activism that actually started well before 9/11, before the nineteen sixties, right? And that continues to today. So they don’t feel fragmented. So that’s something that I’ve been sitting with a lot. Another is around pathways into public service and community service and into the nonprofit sector. So how could we support young people in terms of building their skills in having pathways open to them into our nonprofit organizations? And then finally, how do we support them, um, so that they can do this work for the long run? You know, we all struggle with burnout. We all struggle with sustainability. What are some lessons learned that we can pass on? What are some best practices? That’s something that’s been sitting with me quite a bit, and I hope that the coalition will really think about supporting young people’s leadership and finding different avenues and pathways to do that.   [00:46:00] Arati: What do we think about how we can share historical analyses that will help people new to organizing and understanding their role? Or how can we support young people in building skills that kind of help get them into movement work?   [00:46:11] Hafsa: I think reading literature is very, very, very important. When I think about what’s helped me understand myself better, it was things like the Black Panthers, and that’s another reason why I moved to the Bay Area. Like, they’re organizing. They weren’t just there armed guards, like, policing their, policing other people from their community. It was also, like, you know, free lunch programs for the kids. It was a holistic understanding of community and what it meant, what it really meant. Like, hey, we got us and no one else got us.    [00:46:43] Palvinder: Some of my favorite things has been around BASE, so Bay Area Solidarity Summer gives context to like, young organizers, about the long-standing history of South Asian organizing, and it is so diverse. I remember the first time I saw it, I was, like, amazed. I was just like, “Wow,” “This is really great.” It was so inclusive of different communities, in the larger sort of South Asian stream of organizing, and so it was just really great. I think Anirudha and Mrinalini cover that South Asian timeline, each year at BASE, and it just allows you to see the context that this was pre-9/11. This is, going back to the ’60s, ’70s there’s been so many other movements that have happened, and just all of the different actions that have been taken. And so I think that’s really, really helpful to see it across communities, religious, minority, state, countries, all of that, in the larger, broader South Asian group and then just the need for training and educating and informing young people. I think it’s never too early to start. And then I think just investing in our communities. I have to say, I know for the Punjabi Sikh community, I worked for Jakara Movement, was our first community organizer. We had a part-time staff member, turned full-time staff member prior to me working. And I remember when I would tell people that I’m, like, an organizer, they would be like, “No, no, no, but like, like, what’s your job? Like, what do you actually do?” So it was interesting to see when I would do the work, they would be so appreciative, they’d love it, and they wanted it to happen. But the investment in understanding that this can also be a job and needs to be a job, in doing development work in the community around the organization, I just saw that, we want things to happen, but we don’t wanna put our money there always. And I think that if we want for greater social movements and greater advancements in our communities to happen, we need to be like other communities. We need to have organizations that are established, investing in paid positions. And so many of us do this in our free time, right? And I think that so much of it happens in that. But we can see where folks in social movements have gone further, and that’s because there’s been intentional and critical investments that have sustained them. So great call-out to, I think all of our communities to making sure that we’re investing in this because we can only do so much of it in our free time.   [00:48:50] Priya: I really appreciated the thread of education, and I was a BASE alum, and Aditi gave me a great overview of South Asian organizing. And, like you said, Balvinder, it’s such an in-depth history. and it really has helped inform my current politics and what South Asian organizing can look like today. and I think the other way that I try to educate myself is just, like, be curious, ask questions. Ask my grandparents what their experience during partition was like. Ask my parents what their experience post 9/11 was like, and just, learn from each other and learn those histories also, public education curriculum, especially in Oakland, is getting better and better. Like, all ninth graders have to take ethnic studies. We talk about the Black Panther Party starting in, like, fifth grade in Oakland schools, so I feel like there’s a lot of progress being made.   [00:49:39] Speaker 27: I think that we need to begin to dream again. I think especially among progressives, there is a great despair and a cynicism and even a pessimism as we’re entering a new decade and so much of the apparatus of oppression that we’ve inherited after 9-11 have not, has not been rolled back. The wars persist. And I think it begins with dreaming again enough to inspire the, inspire movement building. And I think that we need a new frame for movement building. I think rights separate us as if, you know, immigrant rights is separate from LGBT rights is separate from Muslim and South Asian rights. I think that we need to ground our movement building in shared moral imperatives. There is a groundswell out there of not only young Sikh and Muslim and South Asian Americans, but really a whole generation of Americans who are really hunger, hungry to emerge from the shadow of 9-11 and think of this, the end of the 9-11 decade as an end to a chapter of history and the beginning of a new chapter.   [00:50:37] Esha: So again, this is kind of us tying back to what we’ve been talking about, which is just how, how do we connect that work and build on top of it, and also keep people engaged and continue to build solidarity. so would love… I know we’ve kinda touched on this as a through line of all of our conversation, but would just love to hear your hopes for the future and, and what you see as a positive, and where we can go from here.   [00:51:01] Palvinder: Esha, I’m a bit critical about this, I’m gonna start with the critical, but I’m hoping to end on a positive here. I think when I hear a lot of this dreaming and need to close this chapter, I struggle because I think there is a lot of healing that still needs to take place and a lot of healing that never took place because we come from communities that sweep things under the rug. When I think about a lot of my experiences, a lot of my parents’ generation’s experiences, they just never talked about it. They had to provide for their family. They had to move on. They had to figure out how do they continue to have space for Punjabi Sikh folks in the Central Valley or in, in Northern California. I know when I went to college and was exposed to folks who came from different socioeconomic backgrounds, things just really changed, and there was a privilege with being able to dream and think about your future without having to think about, “Is my dad gonna be safe?” “Are we gonna have enough food?” Right? Or any of those questions. So Yes, all in for dreaming. I think there’s a need to make sure that we’re healing and we’re uplifting everyone that’s a part of the community as well. and so dreaming means that we’re thinking about the organizing. We’re thinking about what’s coming into our futures and how are we gonna get there, and it means taking everyone with us. I am very hopeful, and I’ve seen in the last two decades of my own organizing and my own community building, the ways that folks are showing up for others who don’t have those same backgrounds. I see the conversations around those who are detained in this current climate right now conversations that my own parents may not have had, right? Just advancements in their own thinking around, a lot of the politics in the past eight to 12 years even, and I see that across the community as well. Not everyone, of course. I don’t know when we’ll get there, but I definitely see greater humanity and just connecting back to folks and seeing those inhumane conditions that people are living through. Still have a lot of work to do around, when we talk about homelessness and substance use and so much other stuff. But I think we’re making ample progress, and it’s because we’re really trying to bring everyone, the generations ahead of us that, never wanted to have these conversations and we never thought we could ever change their perspective. Some of them are slowly moving over. But I am grateful for just organizations and people and spaces and community, who can come together. And I know Aisa was like, “Oh, this has been great.” I feel the exact same way, right? Like, you know, three of us are joining on a call, and I feel like we’re able to come and connect in this space because of that sort of shared linkage around organizing and care and healing. So just really grateful for spaces like this and people who continue to really think critically about the way that we do this work.   [00:53:43] Hafsa: Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Balvinder. I also grew up in, like, a very low-income household in government housing in Southern California, and I think a lot of American Muslim immigrants in the area were also in a similar situation. And, I think about the struggles, the everyday struggles that my parents still have to go through. There’s no, like, healing. There’s no understanding of 9/11 still. They’re still working every single day. And yeah, I can dream of a better life for them, but I’ve kind of been coming to terms now that they’re not gonna experience the freedom that I wish we could all experience in their lifetime. And yeah, like I said, it all comes down to the socioeconomic fight in this country, and really throughout the world, where we can say it’s all these marginalized communities because of what we look like, but it all really comes down to keeping the classes separate and keeping a very high income class continuously growing, and the rest of us are just the soil that they use to extract nutrients from. And there has been a larger struggle of socioeconomic issues throughout history, and that’s also something that’s really helped me understand my own position in the world. Because even though 9/11 did position me as a perpetrator of violence that I’ve never done, I realize that there’s… it, it, it really helps to link myself and my experiences to struggle that have already happened because it makes you not feel alone, and it really helps you feel that solidarity even with people who are not alive still, and that’s really helpful. I, I think about ancestors a lot, and I think of we… A lot of us don’t have access to our actual grandparents or great-grandparents because of partition or whatever else, so I’ve looked to people like Malcolm X and other people like that. And even I’ve read a lot of Tolstoy . Like, even it, it’s not just something that, um, has to happen right now with the people that are alive right now. It’s a long line of human rights movements and the thirst for freedom that we’re all a part of, and that makes me feel a lot more contained as I’m going through the more difficult parts of being part of a marginalized community in America today.   [00:56:05] Arati: We would love to hear your thoughts as well on that last clip.   [00:56:08] Priya: I appreciate the call to dreaming and thinking beyond what exists, and I feel like music and art and all the ways that we, you know, practice joy and experience that in community with each other is part of dreaming and, um, yeah, like creating what we don’t yet see.   [00:56:29] Arati: Absolutely. So that was a clip from Valarie Kaur, who’s an award-winning filmmaker, and we thought it was, her words about dreaming, y’all’s words about the future, hope, solidarity, also pain, and how we heal and how we move together, that’s the note we wanted to end on. So thank you so much for sharing your stories, your strategy, your, hope, your dreams, your experiences of isolation, and your experiences of community, because we’re not gonna get through this without each other, and we look forward to continuing working together and organizing together. And one day we will, we will win, and we’ll all be liberated. Thanks, everyone.   [00:57:09] Miko Lee: Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Pretti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight’s show was produced by Swati Rayasam, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night. 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