S11 Ep20: What’s the Point? Why Your Leadership Needs Purpose

Guest: Ryan Gottfredson, Ph.D., leadership researcher Most leadership development fails because it focuses only on skills and knowledge, but real transformation happens deeper…all the way down to upgrading your mental operating system.   Professor and researcher Ryan Gottfredson explains how upgrading your inner operating system (not just adding new “apps” of skills) shifts leaders from self-protection toward value creation. Together, Maureen and Ryan unpack his framework of Awareness, Altitude, and Upgrade, showing how leaders can move from being dependent thinkers toward truly interdependent leadership. Here's what Neil and Maureen cover: - Why only 1% of leaders reach the highest level of maturity; - Why 98% of leadership programs fail to create transformation; and - What Jack Welch, Alan Mulally, and Satya Nadella can teach us about long-term impact..   Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Bringing Clarity to Confusion with Terri O’Fallon & Kim Barta - Do It on Purpose with Nell Derick Debevoise - Leading with Care & Purpose with Raj Sisodia & Sudhanshu Palsule   For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. We’re onTikTok, Threads, and Twitter, too!   RESOURCES:   Ryan’s new book is Becoming Better: The Groundbreaking Science of Personal Transformation. It’s in paperback at https://amzn.to/42iMLAp, and audiobook at https://amzn.to/4pazdkh.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Producer: Jenna Reik Sponsorship Sales: Kristine Gross Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay. CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Ryan Gottfredson, Ph.D. is a cutting-edge leadership development author, researcher, and consultant. He helps organizations vertically develop their leaders primarily through a focus on mindsets. Ryan is the Wall Street Journal and USA Today best-selling author of Success Mindsets: The Key to Unlocking Greater Success in Your Life, Work, & Leadership, The Elevated Leader: Leveling Up Your Leadership Through Vertical Development, and Becoming Better: The Groundbreaking Science of Personal Transformation.     He is the founder and owner of his consulting company, Ryan Gottfredson LLC, where he specializes in elevating leaders and executive teams in a manner that elevates the organization and its culture. He has worked with top leadership teams at CVS Health (top 130 leaders), Deutsche Telekom (500+ of their top 2,000 leaders), Experian, and others. He has also partnered with dozens of organizations (e.g., Federal Reserve Bank, Nationwide Insurance, Cook Medical) to develop thousands of mid-level managers and high-level leaders.   He is also a leadership professor at the College of Business and Economics at California State University-Fullerton. He holds a Ph.D. in Organizational Behavior and Human Resources from Indiana University, and a B.A. from Brigham Young University. His research has been cited over 4,600 times since 2019.

Guest: Gama Perruci What if leadership really isn’t about leaders anymore?   We revisit our eye-opening conversation with the late Dr. Gama Perruci — former Dean of the McDonough Leadership Center — as he challenged the “lone leader” and “hero leader” narratives we love so much. Instead, he found what works best for business is a powerful five-component leadership model: Leader, Follower, Goal, Context, and Culture. Here's what Gama and Maureen covered: Why context determines the most effective leadership style, far and above personality; What the difference between the American and French Revolutions teach us about better leadership today; and The true business imperative for our dynamic, interconnected world.     Produced in collaboration with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org/. Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Forget Power: How to Lead in a World of Chaos & Complexity – with CEO Michelle Harrison - Cultivating Cross-Cultural Leadership with Bjorn Ekelund - To Stop a Tyrant: How Five Types of Followers Make (or Brake) a Toxic Leader with Ira Chaleff For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. RESOURCES:   The book Gama and Maureen referenced is Understanding Leadership: An Arts & Humanities Perspective. It’s in paperback at https://amzn.to/3JBRpTT, and Kindle at https://amzn.to/3JBRpTT.   Another book you’ll enjoy from Gama is Global Leadership: A Transnational Perspective. It’s in paperback at https://amzn.to/4nftSGS, and Kindle at https://amzn.to/41xsZRq.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.  We may earn a small commission from Amazon when you purchase from these links. -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Producer: Jenna Reik Sponsorship Sales: Kristine Gross CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Dr. Gama Perruci was Dean of the McDonough Center at Marietta College in Ohio and served as a leadership education consultant for The New York Times, a facilitator for the Young African Leaders Initiative, and a facilitator and the leadership programs at Dartmouth College’s Rockefeller Center.   Gama was a frequent guest on the BBC and the Paris-based Radio France International broadcast to Brazil, his country of birth. He served as a member of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library’s Academic Advisory Council and as the Board Chair of the International Leadership Association. Notably, he also served as a consultant for the review of the Department of Leadership, Ethics and Law at the United States Naval Academy and as an evaluator of Zayed University’s leadership program in Dubai, UAE.   Sadly, Dr. Perruci passed away in 2021.

Guest: Susan Howe, CEO of Weber Shandwick What does it take to lead a global organization through constant change? In this conversation, host Maureen Metcalf sits down with Susan Howe, CEO of Weber Shandwick, to explore the leadership strategies behind one of the world’s leading PR firms.   Howe offers practical strategies for executives navigating organizational transformation, AI-driven change, and the accelerating pace of business. Learn how leaders can engineer collaboration, sustain innovation, and remain grounded in uncertain times…and why reinvention must now be a way of life for leaders to maintain a competitive advantage. Here's what Susan and Maureen cover: How to lead in a world reshaped by disruption; Why trust is earned through contribution, not messaging; and Practical ways to build an organizational culture that will adapt…and thrive! Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Forget Power: How to Lead in a World of Chaos & Complexity with Michelle Harrison - How Great Leaders Are Made: Insights from The Economist’s “Boss Class” – with Andrew Palmer - To Stop a Tyrant: The Power of Followers with Ira Chaleff For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.   RESOURCES:   Weber Shandwick’s website has a wealth of information at https://webershandwick.com/.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Producer: Jenna Reik Sponsorship Sales: Kristine Gross Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.   CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Instagram: @innovativeleader  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Susan Howe is Chief Executive Officer of The Weber Shandwick Collective (TWSC), the leading earned-first strategic communications and consulting network spanning 60+ global markets. Under her leadership, TWSC serves Fortune 500 companies across every major industry sector, earning coveted recognition such as PRWeek’s Global Agency of the Year and PRovoke’s Global Agency of the Decade, as well as being named to Ad Age’s Agency A-list and Fast Company’s Most Innovative Companies. TWSC has 225+ Cannes Lions and counting.   With more than two decades of leadership at TWSC, Susan has been a key driver of its growth in her roles as President, Chief Growth Officer and Chief Collaboration Officer, overseeing global operations and fostering collaboration across regions and practices.   As a passionate advocate for inclusion and women in business, Susan is a member of Fortune’s Most Powerful Women community. She also serves on the boards of the Sheppard Pratt Foundation and the Northwestern Alumni Association. Susan is a graduate of Northwestern’s Medill School of Journalism and was recently inducted into the Medill Hall of Achievement, the highest honor awarded to Medill graduates.

Guest: Aldo Boitano What does climbing K2 – the world’s second-highest and deadliest mountain – teach about leadership?   Pretty much everything, according to guest Aldo Boitano. The CEO, founder, consultant, and former International Leadership Association board member reveals how his mountain climbing and Antarctic expeditions taught him the most critical skills modern leaders need. Here's what Aldo and Maureen cover: How mountaineering builds resilience, adaptability, and (increasingly rare in today’s leaders) patience; Why exposure to uncomfortable perspectives provides hidden power; and How stepping outside your comfort zone sparks your own development.   TRIGGER WARNING: The topic of suicide arises in the conversation around the seven-minute point.   Produced in collaboration with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org/. Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Leading from Within: A Former Navy SEAL on Transforming Yourself to Lead Others – with Diego Ugalde - How Great Leaders Are Made: Insights from The Economist’s “Boss Class” – with Andrew Palmer - Leading through Difference with Mike Hardy For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. We’re onTikTok, Threads, and Twitter, too!   RESOURCES:   The book Aldo mentioned is Breaking the Zero-Sum Game: Transforming Societies through Inclusive Leadership. It’s available on Amazon in paperback at https://amzn.to/3VbDpSZ and on Kindle at https://amzn.to/3VbDpSZ. Learn more about Aldo on his LinkedIn page: linkedin.com/in/aldoboitano .   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Producer: Jenna Reik CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Dr. Aldo Boitano is the former CEO and Co-Founder at CleanTech Lithium, a carbon neutral lithium development company in Chile. Its mission is to be the greenest lithium supplier to the EV market. In addition to his decades of broad international leadership experience, Aldo is a world class mountaineer and active philanthropist, designing and executing curricula for internal training courses and outdoor leadership experiential programs to be used in an educational sequence (5th grade - senior classes) for empowering low-income school students.

Guest: Mark Monchek What on earth is an Unconference?   Traditional leadership models are cracking under the weight of today’s rapid change. Strategist and unconference co-creator Mark Monchek reveals why legacy leadership models—top-down authority, rigid planning, and competition-first thinking—are no longer fit for a world defined by disruption. The solution will come through the unconference: a new, intensive, and far more effective way to grow as a leader. It can reshape leadership development through collaboration, experiential learning, and ongoing community. Here's what Mark and Maureen cover: Why control-based leadership is losing effectiveness; How AI is changing the skills leaders need to be successful (for one, they have to learn to be more human!; and The unconference format, and how that leads to more rapid and meaningful leadership growth.   Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Steer Your Career to the Next Tier with Tammy Alvarez - The Job I Love to Hate with Tammy Alvarez - Leading with Care & Purpose with Raj Sisodia & Sudhanshu Palsule   For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. We’re onTikTok, Threads, and Twitter, too!   RESOURCES:   Learn more about the Unconference Mark and Maureen will be part of at https://unconferencenyc.com/. Mark’s own company has more information about his work at https://opplab.com/.   Mark’s book is Culture of Opportunity: How to Grow Your Business in an Age of Disruption. It’s in paperback at https://amzn.to/4oxilEb, and Kindle at https://amzn.to/3JecZ0w.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Procucer: Jenna Reik Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay. CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Instagram: @innovativeleader  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Mark Monchek is the founder of Opportunity Lab, a strategy and leadership development firm that provides the direction, systems, and tools to take organizations to the next level of substantial growth. Mark has worked with leaders from Google, Apple, JPMorgan Chase, General Electric, Goldman Sachs, Adorama, TerraCycle, Feltsberg, The New York Times, Wharton School of Business, New York University, Columbia University, NBC, Time Warner, and the United Nations. He’s the author of the Amazon nonfiction bestseller Culture of Opportunity: How to Grow Your Business in an Age of Disruption. Mark has been featured in Real Leaders, The Better Business Book, the Organization Development Review Journal, Lifetime Network, WPLJ, WCBS, Newsday, Working Women Magazine, and the San Francisco Chronicle.

Guest: Michelle Harrison, Global CEO of Verian What does it take to lead when trust is collapsing and change won’t slow down?   Based on the real-world issues faced by her clients, Dr. Harrison shares bold insights on leading through crisis, restoring public trust, and driving innovation in both government and business. She explores the role of intellectual curiosity, adaptive learning, and values-driven culture in building resilient, high-performing teams during turbulent times. Essential listening for leaders navigating complexity and change. Here's what Michelle and Maureen cover: The global trust crisis in governments and corporations; Why collaboration is no longer an option; and How Michelle builds high-performing, values-driven teams.   Produced in partnership with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org/ . Other episodes you'll enjoy: - The Leadership Balancing Act with Michelle Harrison - How Purpose-Driven Women Redefine Leadership with Karen Longman - Lessons from Governors, Athletes, & Activists on Growing Women Leaders with Susan Madsen   For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. We’re onTikTok, Threads, and Twitter, too!   RESOURCES:   You can learn more about Michelle Harrison’s company, Verian, on their website at https://www.veriangroup.com/ .   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8 . The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    ----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Producer: Jenna Reik CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Dr. Michelle Harrison works as an advisor to governments and corporations around the world to build and deliver better public policy.​ She was the Founding CEO of Verian, leading the organisation for its first decade, during which time she established it as a division of Kantar and then led its evolution to a privately owned independent company and the largest specialist public policy consulting business outside of the US.   She is Chair of the Verian Institute for Public Impact, and a regular platform speaker and media commentator on issues of geopolitical and social change. Michelle was previously the Founding Global CEO of the WPP’s Government and Public Sector Practice, which pioneered a paradigm shift in applied behaviour change communications for public policy and scaled across every continent.   Throughout her career, Michelle has held NED and Trustee roles in the areas of public realm innovation and social investment, including at Nesta (2012 – 2018) and Social Finance (2019 – 2025). She has served on numerous advisory committees for U.K. government. She sits on the Advisory Board of the Reykjavik Global Forum and is the co-founder of The Reykjavik Index for Leadership.

Guest: Ira Chaleff What can you do when leadership at work crosses the line into authoritarian control?   We talk about authoritarians in politics, but they’re in the business world, too…and on the rise there. In this timely and provocative episode, Maureen Metcalf interviews Ira Chaleff, author of To Stop a Tyrant and The Courageous Follower, to explore how power is exercised, and challenged, inside both governments and organizations. Here's what Ira and Maureen cover: How authoritarian behavior is rising in business as well as politics; The difference between dissent and disloyalty; Why political acuity is essential for ethical influence   Learn more from Ira’s in-depth knowledge of followership in these past episodes: - How Five Types of Followers Make (or Brake) a Toxic Leader - The Dance Between Leadership & Followership – Margaret Heffernan joins Ira - Courageous Followership – Neil Grunberg joins Ira For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. We’re onTikTok, Threads, and Twitter, too!   RESOURCES:   Ira’s book, To Stop a Tyrant, is available now on Amazon in hardback at  https://amzn.to/3W5XDys and on Kindle at https://amzn.to/420Zvwc. An audiobook edition is on Audible.com as well.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Procucer: Jenna Reik Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay. CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Ira Chaleff is an author, speaker, and innovative thinker specializing in the dynamics between leaders and followers. He serves as chairman emeritus of the nonpartisan Congressional Management Foundation in Washington, D.C., an organization dedicated to enhancing communication between constituents and their elected representatives.   Chaleff's groundbreaking work, The Courageous Follower: Standing Up to and for Our Leaders, has been published in multiple languages and is utilized globally across educational, corporate, government, and military institutions. He co-edited The Art of Followership: How Great Followers Create Great Leaders and Organizations, part of the esteemed Warren Bennis Leadership Series. His book Intelligent Disobedience: Doing Right When What You're Told to Do Is Wrong explores the roots of obedience and provides guidance on resisting inappropriate orders to achieve ethical outcomes.   As the founder of the Followership Learning Community within the International Leadership Association, Chaleff has been recognized as one of the 100 "Best Minds on Leadership" by Leadership Excellence magazine. He has served on the board of the International Leadership Association and was a visiting leadership scholar at Churchill College, University of Cambridge, England. His ideas on leadership and followership have influenced cultures within the U.S. military, civilian agencies, and international institutions, including the European Union and the British Army.   Chaleff holds a degree in Applied Behavioral Science and is a Board Certified Coach from the Center for Credentialing and Education. He continues to contribute to the global followership community through writing and lecturing from his home in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia.

Guest: Dr. Barry Johnson If you think you have to solve problems, think again. You might be better off leveraging tensions instead! Dr. Barry Johnson, creator of the Polarity Map®, joins host Maureen Metcalf to explore how “both/and” thinking helps leaders navigate complexity, avoid false choices, and drive sustainable performance. From clarity and flexibility to structure and innovation, Barry shares how thriving organizations—and societies—balance competing values rather than pick sides. It’s called polarity thinking…and it works. Packed with stories from the U.S. Navy, Singapore Airlines, and South Africa, this conversation offers a powerful framework for leading in uncertain times. Here's what Barry and Maureen cover: Why choosing a side or over-focusing on one side of an issue can lead to conflict, instead of solving it – and, in extreme cases, break down your organization; How high-performing organizations depend on well-managed tension; and Spotting the false choices that will keep your team stuck.   Produced in partnership with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org/.   Other episodes you'll enjoy: - The Leadership Balancing Act with Michelle Harrison - A Prime Minister’s Path for Meeting Challenges with George Papandreou - Navigating Touch Decisions with former Canadian Chief Justic Beverley McLachlin   For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.   RESOURCES:   The website to learn more about Barry’s work is https://www.polaritypartnerships.com/.     Barry’s books include And: Making a Difference by Leveraging Polarities, Paradox or Dilemma (on Amazon at https://amzn.to/45gnfO0 ) and Polarity Management: Identifying and Managing Unsolvable Problems (https://amzn.to/3IyjqLx ).    Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8 . The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.  NOTE: As an Amazon partner, we may make a small commission from books you buy through these links. -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Producer: Jenna Reik CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Subscribe, like, and leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Barry Johnson created the first Polarity Map® and set of principles in 1975. Since then he has been learning and applying Polarity Thinking® with people and organizations all over the world. He continues to explore and promote supplementing Or-thinking with And-thinking to enhance our quality of life on our planet.   With humility And pride, Barry is passionate about creating an international community of Polarity Practitioners who are dedicated to the study and application of Polarities in a variety of disciplines and situations.   Barry’s newest publications, And: Volume One – Foundations and And: Volume Two – Applications, represent what he and his colleagues have learned about And-thinking since his first book, Polarity Management: Identifying and Managing Unsolvable Problems, came out in 1992.   Barry is an avid outdoorsman and intrepid traveler. He brings his head and heart together in his teaching and consulting. Barry and his wife, Dana, have five children and eleven grandchildren.

Guest: Neil Sahota, United Nations AI Advisor From internal sabotage and mistrust to ethical blind spots and cultural misalignment, this conversation dives deep into the real reasons AI transformations succeed or stall…and the solutions you need to make AI work in your company. You’ll also hear powerful examples of machine-human collaboration, the rise of AI bosses, and why trust is now a core leadership metric. Here's what Neil and Maureen cover: The #1 reason AI rollouts fail – and how you can avoid it; How to assess your organization’s readiness for AI; and Practical strategies to build buy-in, trust, and adaptability.         Neil’s other binge-worthy episodes about AI are: - The 10 Leadership Skills You Need to Safely Adopt AI - Unleashing the Power of Human-AI Collaboration - How to Own the AI Revolution - And, of course, the first part of this interview: Why AI at Work Fails For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. RESOURCES:   Neil’s book, Own the AI Revolution, is available on Amazon at https://amzn.to/4kx4af3, and on Audible at https://amzn.to/4lgS0rK.   Learn more about Neil on his website at https://www.neilsahota.com/. He shares his latest observations on AI in the workplace on his Substack channel at [email protected].   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    The book Maureen and Neil referenced which they wrote together is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ. -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Producer: Jenna Reik Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay. CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Neil Sahota (萨冠军) is an IBM Master Inventor, United Nations (UN) Artificial Intelligence (AI) Advisor, author of the best-seller Own the AI Revolution and sought-after speaker. With 20+ years of business experience, he works to inspire clients and business partners to foster innovation and develop next generation products/solutions powered by AI.

Guest: Dr. Susan Madsen, Professor of Leadership, Utah State University   How did ten female governors become powerful, authentic woman leaders? What can you learn from them for your own leadership path?   In this inspiring conversation, host Maureen Metcalf sits down with Dr. Susan Madsen, founder of the Women and Leadership Project, to explore how women grow into their leadership identities—not just in the boardroom, but over a lifetime. Leadership development begins in childhood, with fathers playing a critical role. Decades later, midlife becomes a perfect time to develop and grow your leadership to new heights.   Here's what Susan and Maureen cover: How to look back and reflect on your own journey to unlock your untapped leadership potential; Why women often wait for permission (and how to reclaim their voice and courage); and The overlooked childhood experiences that shape confident, resilient leaders in adulthood. Other episodes on women in leadership you'll enjoy: - The Bonobo Sisterhood with Diane Rosenfeld - Empowering Women for the Prosperity of Nations with Amanda Ellis & Augusto Lopez-Claros - Winning in the Face of Adversity: The Next Gen of Women Leaders with Congresswoman Joyce Beatty     For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.   RESOURCES:   Susan’s website is https://www.susanrmadsen.com/.   The books she mentioned include On Becoming a Woman Leader: Learning from the Experiences of University Presidents and Developing Leadership: Learning from the Experiences of Women Governors.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking producer: Jenna Reik CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  TikTok: @innovativeleadership Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Professor Susan R. Madsen is considered one of the top global thought leaders on the topic of women and leadership. Her research has been featured in the News and World Report, The Atlantic, The New York Times, Parenting Magazine, Chronicle of Higher Education, The Washington Post, and she is a regular contributor to Forbes. She has been an executive coach for over a decade and enjoys doing personal, professional, and leadership development work with her clients. She also consults with companies, educational institutions, municipalities, and other entities on how to design programs, systems, initiatives, and networks to better help women thrive and advance.   Professor Madsen is the Inaugural Karen Haight Huntsman Endowed Professor of Leadership in the Jon M. Huntsman School of Business at Utah State University. Prior to this, she spent 18 years as the Orin R. Woodbury Professor of Leadership and Ethics in the Woodbury School of Business at Utah Valley University. She is also a Visiting Fellow of the Faculty of Economics and Business at the University of Zagreb (Croatia), a former Fellow of The Leadership Trust Foundation in Ross-on-Wye, England, and a former Distinguished Fellow in the School of Management at Lancaster University in the UK.  She was also the lead series co-editor for the Women and Leadership Book Series and co-edited the first three volumes: Women and Leadership in Higher Education (2014), Women as Global Leaders (2015), and Women and Leadership around the World (2015). Her latest book, The Handbook of Research on Gender and Leadership (Edward Elgar Publishing, 2017) is known as a seminal work on women and leadership worldwide.