BTW EP 19: Inventive Incentives: Jason Brown on Procurement Incentive Structures

Procurement doesn’t just have a measurement problem. It has a motivation problem. Behind every misaligned target, every “savings” claim, and every missed opportunity is the same invisible culprit: incentives that quietly tell people to do the wrong things well. In this episode of Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement, Jason Brown, accounting professor at Indiana University and longtime corporate incentives expert, joins co-hosts Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to expose how organizational reward systems shape behavior far more powerfully than strategy or mission statements ever could. He explains why even the most principled teams end up chasing metrics that distort procurement’s purpose, and why rethinking incentive design may be the key to unlocking true business alignment. Drawing from decades of academic research and corporate consulting, Jason unpacks the subtle ways procurement incentives drift off course: how bonus structures reward volume over value, how finance and procurement end up speaking different dialects of “performance,” and how organizations confuse compliance with contribution. He also brings attention to the rare examples of companies that have broken these patterns by tying procurement’s rewards directly to shared outcomes that improve EBITDA, resilience, and stakeholder trust. This conversation challenges a fundamental assumption: can procurement ever be purposeful if its people are rewarded for something other than real impact?  As Jason argues, until incentives reflect what actually matters to the business and society, procurement will remain stuck in a cycle of performative alignment where everyone looks busy but the enterprise stands still. According to Jason, the truth may be uncomfortable, but it’s exactly what procurement needs to hear. Incentive design isn’t a soft topic or a side project. It’s the operating system of purposeful procurement, and it’s long overdue for an upgrade. Links: Jason Brown on LinkedInRich Ham on LinkedInLearn more at FineTuneUs.com

“Everyone keeps talking about AI just for the sake of AI, but, ultimately, the only thing that matters is the outcome you can achieve.” - Baber Farooq, Senior Vice President, Market Strategy, Procurement Solutions at SAP Procurement leaders have long felt the pinch: rising expectations, tight budgets, and platforms that struggle to keep up with user expectations. As AI shifts from a buzzword to true capability, procurement needs to rethink what they need from their core procurement suite. What will it take to move from incremental change to a genuine step-change in productivity? In this episode, Baber Farooq, Senior Vice President, Market Strategy, Procurement Solutions at SAP, discusses the future of SAP Ariba and what “next-gen” truly means for procurement. To do this, Baber draws back the curtain on SAP’s rethink of Ariba, including why incremental AI add-ons just weren’t enough, and how his team approached trust, transparency, and a seamless transition for current users. In this episode, Baber speaks about: Reimagining procurement technology with AI as a core capability, not a bolt-on Why data quality and structure are critical to enabling reliable AI outcomes Concrete examples of how generative AI changes real user workflows and decision-making Links: Baber Farooq on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

“There is no stagnancy in a supply relationship. Continuous improvement is the basis for that.” - Neji Isaac, Global Category Manager, NOVA Chemicals Procurement often measures success in cost savings and contract terms, but today's business environment demands more.  As supplier markets consolidate and customer needs shift, procurement leaders must find new ways to bring value to the business, especially in categories that seem stagnant or constrained. In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Neji Isaac, Global Category Manager at NOVA Chemicals, shares a real-world case study that pushed the boundaries of traditional supplier relationships. Drawing on his global experience and recent doctoral research, Neji explains how identifying overlooked opportunities and challenging old assumptions can unlock efficiency and drive unexpected value. Whether you’re facing a “take-it-or-leave-it” supplier market or searching for fresh levers to pull, Neji offers pragmatic strategies to reflect on. In this episode, Neji discusses: Rethinking supplier relationships in long-standing, strategic categories How to recognize and act on cultural and regional differences in supply approaches Turning overlooked assets (like spare land) into value-adding levers Why the “we win” approach beats traditional win-win thinking Ways to uncover what truly matters to your suppliers Links: Neji Isaac on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

In this Phil-Ins episode of “Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement,” Philip Ideson, Rich Ham, and Kelly Barner reflect on their conversations with Bayer CPO Thomas Udesen, franchise procurement leader Kristine Morton, and procurement entrepreneur Jason Busch. Despite differences in scope, scale, and sector, the through-line is unmistakable: common sense.  For example, Thomas showed how Bayer abandoned “pointless” savings metrics in favor of measures that connect directly to business outcomes, while Kristine reminded us that for franchisees, if it doesn’t hit the P&L, it didn’t happen. And Jason revealed how AI employees could finally make real-time validation and continuous monitoring of results possible at scale. Taken together, these stories underscore procurement’s most pressing challenge: leaving behind the dysfunctional obsession with “claimed savings” and building incentive systems that reward real impact. Rich, Phil, and Kelly also step back to examine procurement’s sense of alignment (or detachment?) from the wider business. Kelly shares vivid experiences from her own practitioner days, contrasting the urgency of grocery logistics with the abstraction of office supplies. Phil cautions against “procurement blinkers,” reminding us that silos plague every function, not just ours. And Rich argues that measuring against EBITDA – profits, not projections – may finally put procurement “on the pitch” with their teammates. This recap sets the stage for the next phase of the series: designing incentive structures that actually work. Because if procurement doesn’t align with business value, AI vendors may sell that value straight to the C-suite. Links: Rich Ham on LinkedInLearn more at FineTuneUs.com

“Play the long game, avoid myopic thinking and approaches to solve immediate problems as much as you can, and treat your suppliers as your customers or clients.”  – Darshan Deshmukh, President at ProcureAbility Procurement leaders are facing unparalleled uncertainty – trade wars, shifting regulations, and headlines that change overnight. Pressure is mounting to build more resilient, agile supply chains, but most organizations are battling change fatigue as well as a need to redefine value.  Procurement has to rewire their operating model for a future where disruption is the norm. In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Philip Ideson and Kelly Barner are joined by Darshan Deshmukh, President at ProcureAbility. Darshan shares real-world stories about how teams are grappling with global risk and why some are seeing volatility as an engine for growth, while others are retrenching. The conversation addresses how CPOs can actively manage optionality in their supply chains, and how procurement leaders can spot – and address – risk fatigue in their teams. If you want to understand what it means to create a cost-effective and resilient, opportunity-ready supply chain, this episode gives you the roadmap. In this episode, Darshan discusses how to: Adapt your approach for regional differences in geopolitical risk Invest in supply chain optionality, even if it adds time and/or cost Transition from transactional work to collaborative, strategic relationship building Use data and human judgment to separate real risks from noise Links: Darshan Deshmukh on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube Overcoming Procurement’s Fear of AI with ProcureAbility

“We’re in the business of change – selling change and then delivering it.” - Gordon Donovan, Vice President Research - Procurement & External Workforce, SAP  In an era of overlapping crises, procurement faces fast-evolving challenges… and opportunities.  Senior leaders are tasked with not only keeping the engine running but also building resilient, future-facing teams that thrive in complexity. The recently published SAP Economist Impact research report, “The Resilient Edge: Procurement in an Era of Polycrisis,” provides a data-driven lens on what the next three to five years may hold, especially as outsourcing, skills, and technology reshape operating models. To dig into this new research, Philip Ideson welcomes Gordon Donovan, Vice President Research - Procurement & External Workforce at SAP, back to the show. Gordon combs through insights on what is driving procurement decision-making, current confidence in category management, and the practical implications of surging contingent workforce and outsourcing activity. Whether you want to understand why risk management is lagging, how AI will drive operating model transformation, or where procurement should focus next, Gordon brings both the latest data and his own hard-won advice for CPOs. In this episode, Gordon discusses how this latest research from SAP can help procurement: Identify how leaders’ priorities are aligning for the first time in four years Rethink the value proposition beyond cost savings and communicate it upstream Advance risk management beyond basic compliance, especially in category strategies Harness outsourcing and the contingent workforce as proactive transformation levers Prioritize the right skills, even those that rarely make the official list Links Gordon Donovan on LinkedIn Procurement's Path Through an Era of Polycrisis Visit the SAP Website Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube

“We can all claim savings without necessarily achieving the result.”  This stark observation from Jason Busch sums up decades of dysfunction in how procurement measures their impact and why AI may finally force a (much-needed) reckoning with reality. In this episode of “Buy: The Way...To Purposeful Procurement,” Jason joins co-hosts Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to explore how artificial intelligence might finally solve procurement's validation problem… but only if organizations abandon their addiction to “claiming savings” and start measuring what actually matters: EBITDA. As a co-founder of FreeMarkets and a founder of Spend Matters, Jason has witnessed 25 years of procurement's evolution from the inside, and he’s not pulling any punches. Instead, he offers a radical proposition: procurement should function as economic “detectives” gathering evidence of spend crimes, then “prosecutors” holding suppliers accountable based on that evidence. The technology finally exists to make this possible, but it will require procurement to abandon the comfortable fiction of projected savings in favor of the uncomfortable truth of EBITDA impact. The implications of this approach extend beyond individual organizations. Jason frames procurement's societal purpose as “public defenders against rampant cost escalation,” suggesting that when buyer-side flaws enable seller-side exploitation, the ultimate losers are consumers who absorb these costs through higher prices. According to Jason, the question isn't whether technology will transform procurement… It's whether procurement will transform themselves enough to leverage that technology purposefully and for the good of the business. Links: Jason Busch on LinkedIn Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com  

“Procurement is going to be on the front lines, creating competitive advantage for the corporation.” - Vel Dhinagaravel, CEO at Beroe AI isn’t just a buzzword anymore… it’s rapidly becoming procurement’s sharpest tool for staying ahead.  Business leaders now demand more than “check-the-box” savings; they want real, data-driven competitiveness that puts their organizations at the front of the pack. The big question: how can AI and always-on intelligence transform procurement’s role and impact? In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Beroe CEO Vel Dhinagaravel joins host Philip Ideson for a candid conversation on the reality (and roadblocks) of using AI in procurement. Vel draws from deep experience and real-world case studies to reveal where intelligence platforms are making a difference, how measurement is shifting, and what mindsets are needed to win in today’s faster, more transparent world. From rethinking metrics to unlocking competitive benchmarking and avoiding overhyped tech promises, this conversation gives procurement leaders practical advice they can use now. In this episode, Vel discusses: How leading CPOs are moving from point-in-time savings to continuous value Why benchmarking against competitors (not just last year’s spend) is the new mandate Where and how to use AI for measurable results Ways to spot the hype vs. real limitations in intelligent agent tools How to prepare your team for the market’s next leap in performance Links: Vel Dhinagaravel on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

“A decision abyss is the chasm that forms between critical supply chain functions… and that's what keeps and prevents organizations from making fast, cross-functional, well-informed data-driven decisions.” – Keith Hartley, CEO and Board Member at LevaData, CEO of The Abyss Group In today’s hyper-connected supply chains, data is everywhere, but turning it into fast, confident decisions remains elusive. The cost? Slow launches, eroding margins, and “spreadsheet heroics” that mask deeper issues. As the complexity compounds year after year, procurement leaders face a tough choice: keep coping, or tackle what Keith Hartley calls the “decision abyss.” In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Keith, CEO of LevaData and author of the new book “Conquering the Decision Abyss”, joins host Philip Ideson to dig into this silent but urgent challenge.  They explore why siloed information and human habits – not just technology – are holding teams back, and what’s truly required to turn fragmented data into bold, coordinated action. Keith also shares real-world stories, quick wins, and a candid take on why C-suites are finally wading into supply chain’s black box. In this episode, Keith also discusses how to: Diagnose the symptoms and root causes of the “decision abyss” Move your team beyond spreadsheet culture to smarter decisions Embrace modern AI to contextualize and use even messy data Enable rapid testing for new processes that deliver outcomes   Links: Keith Hartley on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

When Kristine Morton's was first introduced to the flawed incentive structures plaguing much of corporate procurement, she said, “That all sounds stupid."  Her blunt reaction reveals something profound: it is possible to build a procurement career without ever encountering the dysfunctional systems that dominate so many large organizations. In this episode of "Buy: The Way...To Purposeful Procurement," Kristine Morton, Director of Strategic Sourcing at Unleashed Brands, joins Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to demonstrate what procurement looks like when stakeholders demand proof, not promises. Working across franchise systems and private equity-backed companies, Kristine serves over 1,000 individual franchise owners who scrutinize every P&L line item. In her world, "savings" means money that actually hits the bottom line, not projections based on contract signatures. Every initiative undergoes rigorous testing before rollout, and continuous measurement ensures stakeholders receive exactly what was promised. In this episode, she explains the stark contrast between procurement theory and practice. While large corporations debate abstract incentive structures, Kristine focuses on operational empathy, which means understanding what makes franchise owners' lives easier, cheaper, or better.  Her approach to category management is truly continuous. As Kristine puts it, “My vendor relationships don't end at contract signature. If I don't follow up and ensure our initiatives deliver what we promised, I won't learn when things don't work out.” Kristine’s leadership journey demonstrates that purposeful procurement doesn't require managing billions in spend. There's profound purpose in simply making efforts real and ensuring stakeholders get what they were promised. With this perspective, adoption is validation; if programs don't deliver value, business owners simply won't participate.   Links: Kristine Morton Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com