BTW EP 18: It's Getting Real: AI, Procurement, and the End of Savings Theater with Jason Busch

“We can all claim savings without necessarily achieving the result.”  This stark observation from Jason Busch sums up decades of dysfunction in how procurement measures their impact and why AI may finally force a (much-needed) reckoning with reality. In this episode of “Buy: The Way...To Purposeful Procurement,” Jason joins co-hosts Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to explore how artificial intelligence might finally solve procurement's validation problem… but only if organizations abandon their addiction to “claiming savings” and start measuring what actually matters: EBITDA. As a co-founder of FreeMarkets and a founder of Spend Matters, Jason has witnessed 25 years of procurement's evolution from the inside, and he’s not pulling any punches. Instead, he offers a radical proposition: procurement should function as economic “detectives” gathering evidence of spend crimes, then “prosecutors” holding suppliers accountable based on that evidence. The technology finally exists to make this possible, but it will require procurement to abandon the comfortable fiction of projected savings in favor of the uncomfortable truth of EBITDA impact. The implications of this approach extend beyond individual organizations. Jason frames procurement's societal purpose as “public defenders against rampant cost escalation,” suggesting that when buyer-side flaws enable seller-side exploitation, the ultimate losers are consumers who absorb these costs through higher prices. According to Jason, the question isn't whether technology will transform procurement… It's whether procurement will transform themselves enough to leverage that technology purposefully and for the good of the business. Links: Jason Busch on LinkedIn Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com  

“Procurement is going to be on the front lines, creating competitive advantage for the corporation.” - Vel Dhinagaravel, CEO at Beroe AI isn’t just a buzzword anymore… it’s rapidly becoming procurement’s sharpest tool for staying ahead.  Business leaders now demand more than “check-the-box” savings; they want real, data-driven competitiveness that puts their organizations at the front of the pack. The big question: how can AI and always-on intelligence transform procurement’s role and impact? In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Beroe CEO Vel Dhinagaravel joins host Philip Ideson for a candid conversation on the reality (and roadblocks) of using AI in procurement. Vel draws from deep experience and real-world case studies to reveal where intelligence platforms are making a difference, how measurement is shifting, and what mindsets are needed to win in today’s faster, more transparent world. From rethinking metrics to unlocking competitive benchmarking and avoiding overhyped tech promises, this conversation gives procurement leaders practical advice they can use now. In this episode, Vel discusses: How leading CPOs are moving from point-in-time savings to continuous value Why benchmarking against competitors (not just last year’s spend) is the new mandate Where and how to use AI for measurable results Ways to spot the hype vs. real limitations in intelligent agent tools How to prepare your team for the market’s next leap in performance Links: Vel Dhinagaravel on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

“A decision abyss is the chasm that forms between critical supply chain functions… and that's what keeps and prevents organizations from making fast, cross-functional, well-informed data-driven decisions.” – Keith Hartley, CEO and Board Member at LevaData, CEO of The Abyss Group In today’s hyper-connected supply chains, data is everywhere, but turning it into fast, confident decisions remains elusive. The cost? Slow launches, eroding margins, and “spreadsheet heroics” that mask deeper issues. As the complexity compounds year after year, procurement leaders face a tough choice: keep coping, or tackle what Keith Hartley calls the “decision abyss.” In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Keith, CEO of LevaData and author of the new book “Conquering the Decision Abyss”, joins host Philip Ideson to dig into this silent but urgent challenge.  They explore why siloed information and human habits – not just technology – are holding teams back, and what’s truly required to turn fragmented data into bold, coordinated action. Keith also shares real-world stories, quick wins, and a candid take on why C-suites are finally wading into supply chain’s black box. In this episode, Keith also discusses how to: Diagnose the symptoms and root causes of the “decision abyss” Move your team beyond spreadsheet culture to smarter decisions Embrace modern AI to contextualize and use even messy data Enable rapid testing for new processes that deliver outcomes   Links: Keith Hartley on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

When Kristine Morton's was first introduced to the flawed incentive structures plaguing much of corporate procurement, she said, “That all sounds stupid."  Her blunt reaction reveals something profound: it is possible to build a procurement career without ever encountering the dysfunctional systems that dominate so many large organizations. In this episode of "Buy: The Way...To Purposeful Procurement," Kristine Morton, Director of Strategic Sourcing at Unleashed Brands, joins Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to demonstrate what procurement looks like when stakeholders demand proof, not promises. Working across franchise systems and private equity-backed companies, Kristine serves over 1,000 individual franchise owners who scrutinize every P&L line item. In her world, "savings" means money that actually hits the bottom line, not projections based on contract signatures. Every initiative undergoes rigorous testing before rollout, and continuous measurement ensures stakeholders receive exactly what was promised. In this episode, she explains the stark contrast between procurement theory and practice. While large corporations debate abstract incentive structures, Kristine focuses on operational empathy, which means understanding what makes franchise owners' lives easier, cheaper, or better.  Her approach to category management is truly continuous. As Kristine puts it, “My vendor relationships don't end at contract signature. If I don't follow up and ensure our initiatives deliver what we promised, I won't learn when things don't work out.” Kristine’s leadership journey demonstrates that purposeful procurement doesn't require managing billions in spend. There's profound purpose in simply making efforts real and ensuring stakeholders get what they were promised. With this perspective, adoption is validation; if programs don't deliver value, business owners simply won't participate.   Links: Kristine Morton Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com  

“ProcureTech100 is the voice of the user. It's the voice of the customer. We want the perspective of those who are using these solutions every day, who have done proof of concepts, and who have seen the ROI.” - Philip Ideson, Co-Founder and Managing Director at Art of Procurement Today’s procurement leaders are surrounded by tech innovation and disruption, but separating real value from empty hype is more complex than ever. With hundreds of new providers, AI tools, and shifting priorities, staying competitive calls for more than just another list of solutions; it demands objective, peer-driven insights. This week, Art of Procurement co-founders Philip Ideson and Kelly Barner unpack the acquisition of the ProcureTech100 and Founders’ Circle programs. They explain what sets the ProcureTech100 apart, why practitioner voices matter, and how this new approach will improve visibility, trust, and practical decision-making for procurement teams everywhere. Tune in for a candid conversation about rethinking technology intelligence, the importance of independence in awards and recommendations, and how community engagement is shaping the next chapter of procurement’s digital story. In this episode, Philip and Kelly: Explain what makes the ProcureTech100 uniquely objective and peer-driven Share how practitioner insights inform more valuable tech recommendations Reveal new ways leaders and providers can participate or become judges Discuss the future direction for digitization advisory, as informed by community data Links: Trust & Transparency: Judging the 2025/26 ProcureTech100 Art of Procurement Acquires ProcureTech100, ProcureTech100 Yearbook, and Founders' Circle Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube

"Business partnering is what sets apart good procurement teams from great procurement teams, especially in indirect procurement... Those who are good at partnering with the business, they actually are able to excel." - Sasha Sergeev, Director of Technical & Corporate Procurement, Nova Chemicals Procurement must evolve beyond traditional cost-focused metrics to become true business partners that drive organizational success. The most mature procurement teams understand that delivering exceptional stakeholder support and building embedded relationships creates far more value than savings alone. In this episode of the Art of Procurement podcast, recorded at the Supply Chain Canada National Conference, procurement transformation leader Sasha Sergeev, Director of Technical & Corporate Procurement at Nova Chemicals, reveals the comprehensive approach his organization used to elevate their indirect procurement team from good to great through strategic business partnering. Sasha shares practical insights on conducting honest maturity assessments, embedding procurement professionals within business teams, and building stakeholder relationships that separate high-performing procurement organizations from the rest. Sasha also discusses: How to conduct comprehensive procurement maturity assessments using both quantitative benchmarks and qualitative stakeholder feedback The critical importance of honest, anonymous feedback in identifying procurement's blind spots and pain points Strategies for embedding procurement business partners directly within stakeholder teams and daily operations Why in-person engagement accelerates relationship building and trust, though virtual partnering can also be effective How to train procurement professionals to balance being helpful business partners while maintaining appropriate governance Links: Sasha Sergeev on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

“Savings is completely self-invented and pointless because it's separated from the real P&L." This assessment from Bayer Chief Procurement Officer Thomas Udesen captures the essence of what may be procurement's most radical transformation in decades. In this episode of “Buy: The Way...To Purposeful Procurement,” Thomas joins Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to discuss how one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies abandoned traditional procurement metrics entirely, replacing “savings” with six C's that actually drive business outcomes: cost, cash, carbon, community, compliance, and continuity.  Thomas's approach defies conventional wisdom at every turn.  At Bayer, every employee can spend up to €50,000 without pre-approval – a level of transactional autonomy that would terrify most procurement organizations. Yet the results speak for themselves: increased responsibility, entrepreneurial thinking, and more strategic spend management decisions driven by transparency rather than control. The conversation reveals how procurement's obsession with “savings” has become a self-inflicted wound. Stakeholders roll their eyes when procurement leads with savings slides because the metrics mean nothing to them. Instead, Bayer measures real P&L impact through price index benchmarking and spend ratios that directly correlate to competitive performance.  In this episode, Thomas demonstrates that purposeful procurement isn't just theoretical; it's already happening. His parting challenge: procurement can be “the heartbeat of the change that is coming.”    Links: Thomas Udesen on LinkedIn Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com

"I believe if you can define it, you can source it. And if you can source it, you can auction it." - Adam Collins, Head of Sales, Esker Procurement teams are navigating unprecedented global disruptions, from tariffs and geopolitical tensions to supply chain instabilities that refuse to settle.  What if these chaotic conditions actually present procurement's greatest opportunity to demonstrate strategic value? In this episode, Philip Ideson and Kelly Barner are joined by Adam Collins from Esker to explore how procurement can leverage fundamental strategic sourcing techniques to not just survive but thrive in turbulent market conditions. Adam’s procurement technology experience is predominantly focused on source-to-contract capabilities that offer practical ways to turn market chaos into competitive advantage. In this episode, Adam discusses: Why transparency with suppliers during market engagement drives better outcomes than secrecy The critical importance of being proactive rather than reactive when markets are unstable  How to challenge traditional definitions of "addressable spend" and uncover hidden opportunities  Strategic approaches to payment timing that support working capital while serving as negotiating levers  Why keeping a calm head and making fact-based decisions separates successful procurement teams from the rest Links: Adam Collins on LinkedIn Watch: Sourcing Strategically in Chaotic Conditions Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

There is no template for transformation. You have to build transformation for the organization that you're in. Go and learn as much as you can about the organization and then pivot where you need to.”  - Tanya Roach, Director of Procurement, Federated Co-operatives Limited Building procurement from scratch is never easy… let alone within a 90-year-old organization, during a pandemic, and with business demands changing faster than ever. Resilient, adaptable team members are the key to overcoming challenges and creating lasting transformation. In this episode, Tanya Roach, Director of Procurement at Federated Co-operatives Limited, speaks to Philip Ideson at the 2025 Supply Chain Canada National Conference.  Tanya shares her transformation journey: from assembling a new team during COVID to designing processes with flexibility, and the lessons learned from steady, people-centered change. In this candid conversation, she details how picking the right talent, using technology as a true enabler, and upskilling for AI set the stage for procurement success in a complex cooperative model.  Whether you’re leading a transformation or shaping day-to-day change, Tanya’s story offers practical strategies: How to build and scale procurement teams amid uncertainty Why adaptability, curiosity, and resilience trump job titles in transformation How to introduce technology and AI in ways that add lasting value The essentials of aligning stakeholders in a distributed organization Links: Tanya Roach on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube  

Halfway through their journey toward purposeful procurement, the co-hosts confront a fundamental question: if procurement drives value in so many ways beyond cost savings, why do incentive structures ignore virtually everything else? In this episode of "Buy: The Way...To Purposeful Procurement," Philip Ideson, Rich Ham, and Kelly Barner discuss insights from their recent conversations with Martin Chilcott and Paul Polizzotto to explore a troubling pattern: procurement consistently creates value despite their flawed incentive structures, not because of them. The conversation maps procurement's hidden value drivers… from supplier-enabled innovation that harnesses R&D capabilities many times larger than any single organization, to supplier diversification efforts that identify alternatives but rarely get implemented, to risk mitigation strategies that could free companies from incumbent supplier traps. The hosts also examine why procurement tends to abandon innovation initiatives precisely when they're most needed, creating self-defeating cycles that damage supplier relationships. Kelly adds a practitioner's perspective into the mix, pointing out the frustration of extensive supplier qualification work that gets shelved due to entrenched decision structures, systematically wasting value creation that never appears on any scorecard. The episode also sets up the series' next phase: conversations with executives who've successfully broken the mold on traditional incentive structures, proving that purposeful procurement is achievable at any scale. Links: Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com