Ep. 399: How Couples Can Rebuild Desire

Sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman interviews therapist and divorce support group leader Oona Metz about how emotional and sexual disconnection often contributes to divorce, drawing on Metz’s 15 years of work with hundreds of women and her book Unhitched: The Essential Divorce Guide for Women. They discuss common drivers of divorce (abuse, affairs, addiction), plus inequality in parenting/household labor, partner passivity, and later-life coming out, and highlight early warning signs like intimacy fading after children, conversations becoming logistics-only, relationships turning “too hot” with constant conflict or “too cold” with shutdown, mounting resentment, and a partner devoting all free time to a hobby. They cover why women initiate most divorces, the shame and practical barriers around leaving, and post-divorce growth through self-reflection, avoiding rebound relationships, clarifying needs, and examining family-of-origin patterns, emphasizing that staying in toxic marriages can harm children’s view of love.00:00 Show Intro00:48 Meet Oona Metz02:41 Why Marriages End05:12 Kids and Connection Drift07:22 Hot vs Cold Marriages09:50 Disengagement Warning Signs11:10 Hobbies as Escape Hatch14:24 Midroll and Ways to Work14:52 Why Women Initiate Divorce17:00 Stigma Kids and Culture18:03 Healing After Divorce20:56 Dating Yourself First23:43 What Could Save It26:58 For the Kids and Closing28:47 Where to Find Oona29:53 Podcast OutroInterested in working with Jessa? https://www.intimacywithease.comBio:Oona Metz is a nationally recognized psychotherapist and the author of Unhitched: The Essential Divorce Guide for Women (Gallery Books / Simon & Schuster), which debuted to remarkable acclaim. Her work—spanning more than 30 years—focuses on the tender, complicated realities of heartbreak, self-abandonment, and starting over. Unhitched was praised on CBS Mornings by Gayle King, featured in Maria Shriver’s newsletter, excerpted exclusively in TIME, and spotlighted on CBS News and NPR’s Morning Edition. The book quickly became a top divorce title on Amazon. Oona is known for her wise, grounded, deeply human approach that blends clinical expertise with relatable storytelling, making her a powerful voice on modern relationships, emotional recovery, boundaries, and the psychology of change. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

In a soapbox episode, sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman argues that a basic foundation of relationships is caring about a partner’s wellbeing and taking their unhappiness seriously, even without agreeing with their interpretation. She explains how the brain filters and assigns meaning to events, so two partners can experience the same situation differently, making “right vs. wrong” arguments unproductive. Instead, she recommends learning to “climb into each other’s movies” to understand one another’s perspective. Zimmerman highlights three essentials for productive communication: awareness that one’s own interpretation isn’t inherently true, genuine care that a partner is struggling, and curiosity about how they arrived at their meaning. She notes this must be mutual, and that it’s a significant problem when a partner shows no care, openness, or curiosity about the other’s experience.00:00 Show Intro00:45 Soapbox Return01:01 Why Caring Matters01:27 Brains Tell Stories02:49 Climb Into Movies03:11 Three Key Skills03:36 Care And Curiosity04:41 When Partners Dismiss05:30 Wrap Up And Outro This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

Host and sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman talks with Courtney Fay Long about common challenges couples face with desire discrepancy, losing spark, and the pressure–rejection cycle. Long shares how prioritizing sex earlier in the day, expanding sex beyond intercourse into connection, and using “all-day foreplay” (texts, appreciation, support) can help, along with resting to relax the nervous system before intimacy. They discuss sex as a form of stress relief and self-care, and emphasize reducing goal-oriented pressure by collaborating on alternatives and honoring limits. Practical tools include a playful desire-box exercise with written requests, intentional “pleasure dates” focused on themes like joy or receiving, self-soothing for the higher-desire partner, and creating a “treasure map” of turn-ons/turn-offs across stages of connection. They also recommend regular appreciation practices and more non-demand touch to rebuild closeness.00:00 Better Sex Intro01:03 Meet Courtney Fay Long01:22 Why Sex Matters02:55 Redefining Sex and Connection03:20 Make Time and Energy04:20 All Day Foreplay Basics06:40 Sex as Stress Relief08:18 Desire Jar Game12:10 Pleasure Dates Plan14:30 Mid Episode Subscribe15:09 Pressure Kills Desire17:15 Self Soothe and Connect19:55 Treasure Map Talk23:04 Touch Starvation and Hormones26:41 What Helps Couples Reconnect29:01 Where to Find Courtney30:07 Podcast OutroJessa's Substack: https://jessazimmerman.substack.com/Bio:Courtney Fae Long is a Sexuality Educator and TEDx speaker with over 25 years of experience helping individuals and couples build deeper intimacy, confidence, and emotional connection. She holds a Master’s degree in Social Work and specializes in desire discrepancy, helping people understand why “low libido” is often misunderstood.Her TEDx talk on the surprising connection between intimacy, happiness, and success has reached over 800,000 viewers. Courtney is known for her grounded, science-informed approach that makes conversations about intimacy accessible, practical, and free of shame.www.courtneyfaelong.com This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

Sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman talks with Dr. Teresa Johnson about why and how couples can have healthier conversations about sex, including desire changes, boundaries, consent, and emotional intimacy. They discuss cultural taboos and shame that keep people silent, how comparisons to porn, media, or “how it used to be” distort expectations, and common pitfalls like avoidance, defensiveness, and feedback landing as criticism. Dr. Johnson emphasizes creating emotional safety, approaching the topic with warmth, regulation, curiosity, and a “same team” mindset, and considering each person’s contribution to the dynamic. They also cover when individual or couples sex therapy may help, and Johnson shares tools she created—a free guidebook and the Lover’s Compass Conversation card deck—to structure safer, deeper discussions and support authentic sexuality through presence, self-discovery, and consent.00:00 Welcome to Better Sex02:14 Why Sex Talks Matter05:03 Normalizing Through Community07:39 Common Conversation Pitfalls09:56 Fear Vulnerability Avoidance13:23 Starting the Conversation Right14:27 Regulate and Set the Stage16:40 Curiosity Same Team Mindset18:05 When to Get Professional Help20:08 Feeling Like the Patient20:27 Aligning Therapy Goals21:19 Owning Your Contribution22:59 Empowerment Over Blame23:47 Tools for Sex Talks27:02 Safe Container and Consent28:33 Authentic Sexuality Framework31:04 Presence Over Programming34:35 Resources and Wrap Up This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

Sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman discusses a common dynamic between higher- and lower-desire partners, warning that taking a partner’s “not tonight” personally leads to feeling rejected and eventually showing up as an unsexy “dwarf” (grumpy, needy, whiny, resentful, withdrawn), which creates pressure and consequences that reinforce obligation sex. She explains that this cycle is unsustainable and not fulfilling for the higher-desire partner because it undermines true desire, pleasure, and connection. Zimmerman encourages challenging the meaning assigned to a partner’s no, noting that lower desire often reflects legitimate obstacles that make sex stressful and/or a more reactive desire style where arousal develops after getting started, not from walking around already in the mood. She recommends reframing “they’re not attracted to me” to “their desire works differently.”00:00 Welcome to Better Sex00:45 Not Tonight Story01:47 Seven Dwarves Reaction02:33 Obligation Kills Desire04:28 Stop Taking It Personally05:01 Real Obstacles to Sex05:36 Reactive Desire Explained06:30 Mantra and Next Steps06:55 Outro and Credits This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

Sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman interviews Josh Davis about neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) as practical, research-supported tools drawn from psychotherapy to improve mindset, communication, and relationship dynamics around intimacy and sex. Davis explains NLP’s origins and introduces “well-formed outcomes,” including focusing on what’s in your control, stating goals positively, specifying context, making goals measurable, and addressing internal “ecological” pushback. They discuss desire discrepancy and how shifting from outcome goals to process goals can reduce resentment and improve connection. Davis shares strategies like assuming every behavior has a positive intention to reduce resistance and find win-wins, and “meeting your partner where they are” to earn the right to influence. He also describes choosing emotional states intentionally via memories and reframing changes as experiments, and shares where to find his book and dad-focused programs.00:00 Show Intro00:45 Meet Josh Davis01:36 What Is NLP02:15 Origins of NLP04:51 Why Josh Teaches Dads05:30 Quick NLP Takeaways06:44 Control What You Can08:18 Desire Discrepancy Example11:56 Letting Go of Outcomes13:45 Well Formed Outcomes14:42 Positive Goals and Context16:47 Measurable and Ecological19:16 Partner Resistance Intentions22:24 Assume Positive Intent23:28 Curious Questions Not Criticism24:05 Meet Them Where They Are26:17 Join Their Energy28:04 Intimacy When Things Go Wrong28:44 Choose Your Emotional State31:34 Love As An Experiment35:33 Memories Versus Thoughts37:17 Programs Book And Resources38:57 Final Takeaway And Wrapwww.joshdavisphd.com/dads This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

Sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman explains David Schnarch’s term “the devil’s bargain,” where the higher desire partner stops initiating sex and leaves initiation entirely to the lower desire partner. She describes three common origins: a well-intentioned attempt by the higher desire partner to reduce pressure and avoid painful rejection; a request by the lower desire partner to avoid saying no and to “miss it”; and a resentful test by the higher desire partner to see how long sex will go unmentioned. Zimmerman argues the desire discrepancy remains and the burden shifts to the lower desire partner, often increasing pressure through a sense of obligation and tracking time. She emphasizes that initiation should be a shared responsibility and reframes it as initiating opportunities to be sexual, especially for people with reactive desire who initiate from intention rather than arousal.00:00 Welcome to Better Sex00:48 Introducing the Devils Bargain01:28 Why Couples Make It03:11 When It Becomes a Test03:44 Why It Backfires04:32 Sharing Initiation Responsibility05:51 Closing and Next Steps This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

Sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman interviews Anthony Silard about his book Love and Suffering and how loneliness and disconnection affect relationships. Silard describes a “love progression model” of acceptance, forgiveness, gratitude, and love, each requiring overcoming suffering, resentment, judgment, and “incarceration,” respectively. He distinguishes aloneness from loneliness and solitude, shares data on rising loneliness, and discusses how resentment can lead to paralysis, power-over dynamics, and loneliness, including among leaders. He argues forgiveness can be a judgment-based power play and suggests moving beyond it toward gratitude, while separating forgiveness (personal development) from trust (relationship development). He shares exercises for examining one’s role in conflict, a personal story of forgiving an abusive stepfather, and an example of how judgment can narrow partner choice. Sillito directs listeners to his website for free books.00:00 Welcome to Better Sex00:45 Meet Anthony Silard01:34 Why He Wrote the Book02:56 Love Progression Model03:49 Loneliness in Relationships05:41 Loneliness vs Solitude07:08 Loneliness Is Going Global09:54 Men Friendship and Despair11:38 Forgiveness Power Play13:59 Beyond Forgiveness to Gratitude18:38 Midroll and Resources19:07 Owning Your Part19:34 Three Column Forgiveness Exercise20:54 Resentment And Paralysis21:57 Forgive By Giving For23:10 Forgive And Remember23:47 Forgiveness Versus Trust25:31 Finding Meaning In Suffering26:23 Compassion Without Absorbing27:00 Turning Pain Into Purpose28:31 Resentment In Relationships32:02 Loneliness To Love34:29 Incarceration And Projection34:53 Maria’s Infidelity Lesson40:14 Book Links And FarewellHis latest book (April 2025): Love and Suffering: Break the Emotional Chains that Prevent You from Experiencing Love (all proceeds donated to nonprofit education programs in Africa and Latin America)The Myth of Happiness: How Your Definition of Happiness Creates Your Unhappiness and The Myth of Friendship: How Your Misunderstandings about Friendship Keep You Lonely . They can enter their email to download them here: www.theartoflivingfree.org/freehappinessandfriendshipbooksWant to work with Jessa? https://www.intimacywithease.comBio:Anthony Silard, Ph.D is a professor of leadership and the Director of the Center for Sustainable Leadership at Luiss Business School in Rome. Anthony has provided leadership development coaching and training to thousands of CEOs and senior executives of Fortune 100 companies, small businesses, and the world’s largest nonprofits, including GE, Disney, Nokia, Bank of America, IBM, CARE, Save the Children, and the American Red Cross. Anthony has also coached political leaders, including G-20 cabinet ministers. He has taught leadership at various universities around the world, including IESE Business School, Claremont McKenna College, the Monterrey Institute of Technology, INCAE Business School, California State University San Bernardino and the International University of Catalonia and has lectured on leadership at Harvard, Stanford, Georgetown, the University of California at Berkeley, George Washington University, Cal Poly Pomona, and ESADE Business School. Anthony has received numerous awards for his work, including Harvard’s Robert F. Kennedy Public Service Award, was named Visionary of the Year by the PBS series The Visionaries, and was featured at the Presidential Summit for America’s Future and America’s Promise. Anthony holds a PhD in leader- ship from IESE Business School, which he received with First-Class/Excellent Distinction, a Master’s in Public Policy focused on leadership from Harvard University, and a BA from the University of California at Berkeley. He also served in the Peace Corps in Kenya for two years. Anthony is CEO of the Global Leadership Institute and President of the Center for Social Leadership. He lives with his wife and two children in Rome. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

Sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman interviews Jonathan Robinson about using MDMA (ecstasy) with couples to accelerate therapy, emphasizing a legal disclaimer and harm reduction. Robinson describes renewed interest in psychedelic therapies, claims MDMA can make deep couples work happen in hours, and contrasts it with drugs like psilocybin or ketamine because it supports therapeutic interaction without hallucinations. He explains proposed mechanisms (reduced amygdala fear response and increased serotonin/bonding), highlights the importance of set and setting, purity testing, minimizing distractions, and the value of a trained guide plus integration sessions for lasting change. He discusses common reasons couples seek MDMA (trauma, anxiety, depression, addiction, relationship issues, spiritual growth), how to choose a guide, contraindications (recent heart attack, antidepressants; caution with psychosis/bipolar), and shares a personal story of MDMA revealing grief underlying marital conflict. Want to know more about Jessa's couples; intensives? https://www.heartweaveforcouples.comBio: Jonathan Robinson is a psychotherapist, best-selling author of 16 books, and a professional speaker from Northern California. He has reached over 200 million people around the world with his practical methods, and his work has been translated into 47 languages. Mr. Robinson has made numerous appearances on The Oprah Show and CNN, as well as other national TV talk shows. Jonathan’s most recent book is called, “Ecstasy as Medicine: How MDMA Therapy Can Help You Overcome Trauma, Anxiety and Depression…and Feel More Love.” In the book, Jonathan shares the best methods, stories, and ideas he’s learned from leading over 700 MDMA journeys and teaching hundreds of therapists how to do his unique protocol over Zoom. His other books include the bestsellers, “Communication Miracles for Couples,” and “More Love, Less Conflict.”Jonathan is the co-host of the podcast Awareness Explorers, and his websites are: XTCasMedicine.com and FindingHappiness.com This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe

In this soapbox episode of the Better Sex Podcast, sex therapist Jessa Zimmerman describes a common barrier to seeking help for sexual issues: the fear that if you “open the box” and really look at your sex life, you might discover it’s hopeless—like Schrödinger’s cat being alive or dead. She acknowledges how much courage it takes to address intimacy struggles, but argues that avoidance carries major emotional costs, from growing distance to cringe moments when sex comes up, and years lost to an unfulfilling dynamic. Zimmerman says there is real hope when couples have a fundamentally good relationship, goodwill, and willingness to examine their own contributions and learn new ways of thinking about sex, and she encourages listeners to raise the issue, get support, and work on it sooner rather than later.00:00 Welcome to Better Sex00:45 Soapbox Topic Setup01:04 Schrodingers Cat Explained02:05 Fear of Seeking Help03:10 When Sex Can Improve04:58 Cost of Avoidance05:54 Its Not Too Late07:01 Courage to Act07:26 Closing and Credits This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit jessazimmerman.substack.com/subscribe