33 - Interview w/ Jon Asbury, Edsby Destinations

Participation grades are still widely used in education. In this episode, Tom and Nat challenge the assumption that participation belongs in academic grades by unpacking a critical distinction: participation may support learning, but it is not the same as learning. Through a candid and thought-provoking conversation, they explore what participation grades often end up measuring: personality, confidence, compliance, and cultural norms, rather than actual understanding. The result? Grades that can unintentionally distort achievement and disadvantage certain learners. But this episode doesn’t stop at critique. Tom and Nat reframe participation as something too important to reduce to a number, offering practical ways to make it more inclusive, intentional, and aligned with sound assessment practices. From expanding how participation is defined to separating it from academic achievement and using it as a tool for feedback and growth, this conversation will challenge your thinking and give you concrete ways to better support student engagement, without compromising the integrity of your grades. While this episode is timely, given the recent announcement by the Ontario government, it was recorded on March 27, before the government's "Putting Student Achievement First Act, 2026" was announced in April 2026.   Check Out Edsby Destinations   Feedback Flow Mini-Course   Assess THAT on YouTube!     🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE   CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X  

In this episode, Tom & Natalie are joined by Jon Asbury, co-founder of Edsby, to discuss their new platform, "Edsby Destinations." Previously, Jon was one of the three co-founders of a company called SoftArc. SoftArc built an email and collaboration system called FirstClass back in the 90s that took the world by storm and is credited as, among other things, the first learning management system. Edsby Destinations is a scalable, competency-based assessment and reporting system designed to help K-12 districts and state governments clearly articulate and track what students are learning, where they are headed, and how to get them there. Destinations aligns performance to local outcome frameworks and standards, enabling a student “GPS for learning” with real-time educator visibility into progress against defined success criteria. Teachers, students, and families benefit from clear, student-friendly language, multimedia evidence capture, two-way feedback, and dashboards that illuminate learning pathways at individual, class, and regional levels. Designed for large K-12 organizations and linked with existing SISes and LMSes, it ensures assessment practices scale with transparency and consistency.   Check Out Edsby Destinations     Feedback Flow Mini-Course   Assess THAT on YouTube!     🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

In this episode, Tom and Nat take a hard look at one of the most celebrated and misunderstood elements of teaching: feedback. While research consistently shows that feedback can significantly improve student achievement, the reality in many classrooms is very different. Too often, feedback is given but not used, leaving teachers frustrated and students unchanged. Together, they unpack five key reasons feedback fails, including the impact of grades, cognitive overload, poor timing, over-directiveness, and the emotional side of how feedback lands with students. More importantly, this episode shifts the conversation from effort to design. Tom and Nat explore what actually makes feedback effective (not in theory, but in practice), offering clear, actionable principles that help ensure feedback leads to thinking, revision, and growth. If you’ve ever wondered why your feedback isn’t getting the results you hoped for, this episode will challenge your assumptions and give you a more intentional, impactful way forward.   Feedback Flow Mini-Course   Assess THAT on YouTube!     🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

Averaging feels neutral, objective, and mathematically sound, but in the context of student learning, it can quietly distort the story a grade is meant to tell. In this episode, Tom and Natalie take a deep dive into the statistics that dominate most gradebooks (mean, median, and mode) and unpack why tools designed to summarize stable data can mislead us when applied to something as dynamic as human learning. Along the way, they explore the hidden problems of equal weighting, outliers, small sample sizes, and the false precision created by decimals that suggest more accuracy than the evidence can truly support. Through practical examples and thought-provoking scenarios, Tom and Natalie show how averaging can punish growth, hide mastery, and cement early struggles into final judgments. But this episode isn’t anti-math; it’s about measurement clarity. They explore the limited situations where averaging can be helpful and offer practical alternatives for blending statistical summaries with professional judgment so that grades communicate what they’re supposed to: a meaningful and defensible interpretation of student learning.     Assess THAT on YouTube!     🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

Across education, we hear constant concern about teacher shortages. On the surface, it seems like recruitment pipelines, retention rates, burnout, and workload are the issues. But beneath those very real challenges lies a quieter, more systemic issue: many educators have never received deep, sustained support for developing assessment literacy. When teachers lack clarity around evidence, criteria, professional judgment, and grading accuracy, everything becomes heavier. Grading expands, decision fatigue sets in, parent conversations feel tense, and confidence erodes. In this episode, Tom & Natalie argue that strengthening assessment literacy isn’t just about improving grading practices, it’s about stabilizing the profession itself. When teachers understand what counts as evidence, how to separate behaviour from achievement, and how to make defensible judgments about learning, workload becomes more manageable, and confidence grows. Assessment literacy reduces friction, restores professional agency, and creates coherence across classrooms and schools. If we want teachers to stay (and thrive) this is foundational work we can’t afford to overlook.   Assess THAT on YouTube!   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

In this episode, Tom and Nat explore a tension many educators are feeling right now: our deep desire to be compassionate in assessment and the unintended consequences that can arise when compassion gets confused with lowering expectations. Responding to student stress, disengagement, and inequity is real and necessary work. But when clarity fades, standards soften, and expectations become negotiable, students often lose the very signals they need to grow, build confidence, and trust the learning process. Through stories, reflection, and practical examples, this conversation reframes rigour and care as partners rather than opposites. Tom and Nat argue that the most humane assessment practices are grounded in clear expectations, honest feedback, and meaningful support, not diluted standards. If you’ve ever wrestled with flexibility, fairness, or how to hold the bar while honouring students’ realities, this episode invites you to rethink what compassion truly requires in assessment.   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

AI has sparked fear, urgency, and a wave of reactionary policies in schools, but what if the real issue isn’t the technology itself? In this episode, Tom and Natalie argue that AI didn’t break assessment; it exposed long-standing weaknesses in task design, clarity, and how we define academic integrity. Rather than framing AI as a cheating problem to be solved through bans and detection tools, they invite listeners to reconsider what meaningful evidence of learning actually looks like in an AI-present world. Through real-world composite examples and reflective dialogue, this episode reframes academic integrity as a design and culture issue, not a policing one. Tom and Natalie explore how clarity, transparency, and intentional assessment practices reduce misuse, strengthen trust, and keep learning at the center. If you’re feeling overwhelmed by AI or unsure how to respond without compromising your values, this conversation offers a grounded, assessment-literate path forward.   A.I. Won't Pass this Test Webinar   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

When educators say, “We tried that… and it didn’t work,” the conversation often stops there. But what if the problem isn’t the idea itself (e.g., feedback, reassessment, rubrics, or standards-based grading) but the way it was implemented? In this episode of Assess THAT, Tom & Nat explore the often-overlooked distinction between sound assessment ideas and the implementation choices that bring them to life. Through concrete classroom and leadership examples, they unpack why promising practices are so frequently abandoned before they’ve had a real chance to succeed. Taking a coaching-oriented lens, this conversation invites educators to slow down, reflect, and ask better questions before dismissing powerful approaches to assessment and grading. You’ll hear about common implementation errors - surface adoption, misaligned beliefs, missing conditions, and unrealistic expectations - and how refining implementation can restore trust in practices that genuinely support student learning. This episode is a reminder that implementation is not a checklist, but a professional design challenge worth getting right.   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

In this episode, Tom & Natalie are joined by CAC consultant Josh Ogilvie for a thoughtful and energizing conversation about the relationship between student motivation and sound assessment practices. Josh challenges the idea that motivation is something students either have or don’t have, and instead invites us to look closely at the conditions we design in classrooms (e.g., through purpose, choice, feedback, and assessment) that either invite students in or quietly push them out. Together, they unpack common misconceptions about engagement and explore why motivation is often a signal about design, not effort or character.   They also dig deeply into physical education as a powerful yet often misunderstood context for assessment. Josh shares why assessment in PE is uniquely emotional and visible for students, how traditional grading practices can unintentionally undermine confidence, and what more human, learning-focused assessment can look like in practice. Whether you teach PE or not, this conversation offers practical insights into how assessment can build agency, confidence, and motivation, rather than compliance, and why getting these details right matters more than we often realize.   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

In this special holiday episode of Assess THAT with Tom & Nat, Tom and Natalie explore grading through the timeless lens of Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol. Guided by the ghosts of grading past, present, and yet to come, they unpack why grading is so emotionally charged, why change often feels threatening, and how our own experiences as students continue to shape the way we evaluate learning today. From fear-based grading practices to the identity-laden nature of grades, this episode invites listeners to reflect honestly on the stories that live beneath their current systems. Shifting the focus from grading debates to what truly drives learning, Tom and Natalie make the case that assessment (not grading) is the real engine of equity, motivation, and student growth. They explore what happens when assessment is treated as a living process rather than a set of events, and offer a future-focused vision that centres student voice, confidence, and accurate learning stories. Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or system-level decision-maker, this episode provides a powerful framework for starting meaningful conversations about grading and reimagining what’s possible for learners.   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: [email protected]     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG