153: Conversations from the 7th Fascial Research Congress (with Robert Schleip, Gil Hedley, & more)

🎙In this special episode recorded live at the 7th International Fascial Research Congress in New Orleans, Til Luchau gathers conversations with leading researchers, educators, and practitioners from around the world. From collagen synthesis breakthroughs to fascia typologies, scar tissue management, mental imagery, and integrative perspectives on touch and movement, this episode captures the excitement and connections at the forefront of fascia research. 🔍Interviews by Time Code: •01:04 — Robert Schleip: Conference spirit, collagen synthesis, ultrasound, and vagus–immune connections •10:01 — Cathy Ryan: Scar tissue management, bridging research and practice, teaching with Healwell & Advanced-Trainings.com •13:45 — Gavin Ruiz: A first-time attendee’s perspective, tendon insights, and applying research as a young therapist •15:42 — Eric Franklin: The Franklin Method, mental imagery, body schema, and the role of touch •21:39 — Sneha Krishna: Making fascia science more accessible, teaching biomechanics, and global connective insights •25:53 — Miriam Wessels & Heike Oellerich: The “fascia code,” Viking vs. Elf body types, treatment implications, and emotional dimensions •37:16 — Gil Hedley: People, embodiment, anatomy as metaphor, and uniting spirituality with embodiment Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this intriguing episode, Til and Whitney dig into a recent study that tested the effects of pressure in myofascial release—comparing a traditional pressure-based technique with a light-touch "sham" version. The study measured changes in pain sensitivity, neck mobility, and proprioception. What did the study find? And what can that teach us about technique, touch, and the therapeutic encounter? Join us as we unpack the design, outcomes, and broader implications of this fascinating study—and reflect on what really makes manual therapy effective. 🔍 Key Topics: 00:47 - Study Introduction - Exploring immediate effects of suboccipital myofascial release on pain thresholds, range of motion, and proprioception 04:38 - Research Design - Comparing pressure-based technique vs. "sham" light touch treatment in 30 healthy adults 08:45 - Sham Treatment Challenges - Why creating control groups is particularly difficult in manual therapy research 12:18 - Measurement Methods - Pain pressure threshold, cervical range of motion, and proprioception repositioning tests 14:58 - Surprising Results - Both pressure and light touch groups showed similar improvements with no statistical difference 18:14 - Contextual Effects - Everything beyond technique that influences outcomes: environment, expectations, touch quality, practitioner skill 19:44 - Technique vs. Context Debate - Does this prove technique doesn't matter, or highlight the importance of how we deliver treatment? 26:16 - Anatomical Considerations - Suboccipital muscles, proprioceptors, and precision-oriented treatment approaches 30:00 - Research Limitations - Small sample size, no follow-up, immediate effects only, practitioner experience factors 34:12 - Clinical Takeaways - The "magic" of touch and importance of human connection in therapeutic outcomes   Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙What does it mean to find balance—when the world around us feels anything but balanced? Til and Whitney explore the many meanings of “balance,” from physical coordination and structural asymmetry to emotional regulation, interoception, and life rhythm. Drawing on neuroscience, somatics, and their own experience as bodyworkers, they reflect on how balance isn’t a fixed point—but a dynamic process of continual adaptation. Whether you’re a practitioner looking to stay grounded in caregiving roles, or just navigating modern overwhelm, this episode offers practical insights and embodied metaphors to help you stay centered. ✨ Inspired by Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Sign up now with a $350 deposit, and use code “thinking” for $100: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/  🔍 Key Topics: •00:00 – What “balance” means in the body and beyond •04:20 – Balance as movement, not stillness •08:00 – Vestibular systems and the emotional brain (Hitier et al., 2014) •12:15 – Why imbalance is fertile ground for growth (Kelso & Engström, 2006) •15:30 – The body as metaphor for internal regulation •18:05 – Interoception as a compass for emotional balance (Mehling et al., 2012) •22:40 – Is symmetry the goal—or functional asymmetry? •26:50 – Giving and receiving: how practitioners stay balanced •31:00 – Tech vs. touch: what really heals? •34:20 – Work/life balance and showing up for clients •37:10 – Micro-practices: balance in everyday moments •40:30 – Retreat as a reset: what stepping away reveals •44:15 – Closing reflections + details about the Thailand retreat 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  •Hitier, M., Besnard, S., & Smith, P. F. (2014). Vestibular pathways involved in cognition. Frontiers in Integrative Neuroscience, 8, 59. https://doi.org/10.3389/fnint.2014.00059  •Slomo – A short documentary about Dr. John Kitchin’s journey toward balance and meaning. https://vimeo.com/channels/5pointpicks/90655826  •Adachi, Kendra. The Plan: A Step-by-Step Guide to Rest, Peace, and Purpose (2024) – A practical and compassionate approach to designing a life that works for you. https://www.amazon.com/Plan-Step-Step-Guide-Purpose/dp/0593578502 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Rebroadcast: One of our most popular episodes (Ep 45), shared again in honor of the upcoming Fascia Research Congress. 🎙In this lively and far-reaching conversation, fascia researcher and manual therapy pioneer Robert Schleip returns to talk with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe about the newly expanded second edition of Fascia in Sport and Movement. They explore what’s new in fascia science, how manual therapy and movement are evolving, and how fascia functions as a sensory and fluid-regulating organ. Along the way, Schleip shares stories, research, and a few surprises. 🔍 Key Topics: •0:00 — Til’s choice to publish with Handspring (and Robert’s role in that decision) •2:02 — Introducing Robert Schleip: Rolfing, Feldenkrais, and fascia science •5:46 — Relevance of Fascia in Sport and Movement for manual therapists •8:36 — From bodywork to movement: integrating motor learning and fascia fitness •12:47 — Fascia fitness origins and the shift toward bounce, play, and variety •18:15 — Fascia as a sensory organ: 250 million sensory nerve endings •22:10 — Surprising differences in innervation between skin and fascia •26:58 — Free nerve endings, pain perception, and autonomic connections •29:41 — Sympathetic regulation and its role in fluid dynamics and recovery •35:25 — Balancing sympathetic and parasympathetic input through varied movement •40:18 — Resilience, trauma, and adaptation (with nods to Porges and Levine) •45:19 — Can we really change fascia? Revisiting IT bands and foam rolling •50:34 — Hyaluronan, hydration, and viscosity: another mechanism for change •57:36 — A story of facial nerve recovery, social engagement, and baby therapy •1:01:31 — Touching water: fascia, sponginess, and inspiring clients to move •1:06:54 — Elegant stair dancing and everyday movement integration •1:10:30 — Resources, shoutouts, and where to learn more from Robert 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  Book: Fascia in Sport & Movement at Handspring (Get 15% off with coupon code TTP)  fasciaresearch.de somatics.de Fascia Research Society  Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this episode, Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe speak with renowned neuroscientist Dr. Stephen Porges, originator of Polyvagal Theory. Together, they explore how our nervous systems respond to cues of safety, how touch can support regulation and connection, and what all this means for bodyworkers and manual therapists. Dr. Porges shares the latest thinking on co-regulation, trauma, attunement, and the science of feeling safe—along with practical insights for practitioners working with the body. 🔍 Key Topics: 00:00 – 02:00 Intro, ABMP welcome & framing the Polyvagal lens for bodyworkers 02:00 – 07:00 Early research with Peter Levine and John Cottingham: how structural shifts (pelvic tilt, fascia work) alter autonomic regulation 07:00 – 12:00 Evolutionary foundations: fascia types, diaphragm function, and the hierarchy of autonomic response 12:00 – 17:00 Facial expressivity, voice prosody, and breathing as channels of co‑regulation 17:00 – 22:00 Identifying autonomic states (“tightly wrapped” bodies) and choosing when—not just where—to touch 22:00 – 27:00 The Body Perception Questionnaire: a tool for mapping clients’ interoceptive awareness 27:00 – 32:00 Trauma, autonomic reactivity, and parsing traumatic events vs. responses 32:00 – 37:00 The Safe and Sound Protocol: acoustic interventions for nervous system safety 37:00 – 42:00 Vagal “hacking” misconceptions: why rhythm and safety signals matter more than stimulation 42:00 – 47:00 Feedback loops: tissue ↔ nervous system ↔ fascia → chronic pain 47:00 – 52:00 Therapist intuition: physiological co‑regulation, broadcasting accessibility, therapist self‑state 52:00 – 57:00 Finding safety in a chaotic world: why therapists need safe colleagues and co‑regulation too 57:00 – 60:00+ New resources: Polyvagal Theory: A Science of Safety, the Norton-edited somatic therapies volume, Safe & Sound Protocol book, Our Polyvagal World 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  • Polyvagal Theory: A Science of Safety Stephen W. Porges (2022) A foundational, peer-reviewed article exploring how our nervous system detects safety and threat. https://doi.org/10.3389/fnint.2022.871227 • Somatic-Oriented Therapies: Embodiment, Trauma, and Polyvagal Perspectives Edited by H. Grassmann, M. Stupiggia & S. W. Porges (2025) A rich collection on body-centered therapy approaches and trauma healing through a Polyvagal lens. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1324052724 • Safe and Sound: A Polyvagal Approach for Connection, Change, and Healing Stephen W. Porges & Karen Onderko (2025, Audiobook) A warm, practical guide to healing and connection through nervous system regulation. https://www.amazon.com.au/Safe-Sound-Polyvagal-Approach-Connection/dp/B0DGGZLJ3J • Our Polyvagal World: How Safety and Trauma Change Us Stephen W. Porges & Seth Porges (2023, Audiobook) A father-son conversation exploring how trauma and safety shape our bodies, brains, and relationships. https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0CW5CPPFP • Polyvagal Perspectives: Interventions, Practices, and Strategies Stephen W. Porges (2024, Audiobook) Hands-on insights for bringing Polyvagal ideas into therapy, education, and everyday life. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0D9PJQC55 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙From “vagal push-ups” to inflammation to trauma healing, the vagus nerve is everywhere in bodywork and wellness talk—but what does the science actually say? And more importantly, what does this mean in actual practice? In this episode, Til and Whitney take a grounded, myth-busting look at the vagus nerve’s role in health, relaxation, and hands-on practice. They explore what we can clearly influence through bodywork, what’s misunderstood, and how to work with and think about this vital nerve in our hands-on practices. 🔍 Key Topics: 0:01:50 Introduction to the vagus nerve 0:02:07 Early experiences learning about the vagus nerve 0:03:40 Chair massage and vagal responses 0:03:40 EMT training and vagal response demonstrations 0:04:03 Early research on heart rate variability 0:05:23 Steven Porges and polyvagal theory origins 0:05:46 Anatomical overview of the vagus nerve 0:06:15 Nerve pathways and innervation 0:08:44 Branches to the ear and other body parts 0:08:44 Ventral and dorsal vagus nerve divisions 0:10:01 Parasympathetic nervous system explanation 0:11:11 Evolutionary perspectives on vagal function 0:12:44 Vagal tone and heart rate variability 0:14:38 Mechanisms of heart rate regulation 0:15:04 Breathing and its impact on vagal tone 0:19:47 Breathing techniques for vagal stimulation 0:21:15 Humming, chanting, and vocal effects 0:23:15 Social regulation through sound 0:25:24 Cold exposure and vagal response 0:26:35 Diving reflex 0:27:00 Physiological changes in response to cold 0:28:07 Can we "treat" the vagus nerve? 0:32:27 Limitations of direct nerve manipulation 0:35:14 Holistic approaches to nervous system regulation 0:35:39 Identifying clients who might benefit from vagal tone work 0:36:14 Vagus nerve and inflammation 0:38:12 Changing perspectives on manual therapy approaches 0:39:39 Role of education in treatment 0:41:16 Ear stimulation techniques 0:42:52 Cautions about ear work 0:44:46 Polyvagal theory overview 0:45:59 Criticisms of polyvagal theory 0:46:21 Misconceptions about vagus nerve stimulation 0:49:25 Key takeaways about vagus nerve 0:50:24 Importance of context in nervous system regulation 0:51:49 Comparing vagus nerve to mystique of psoas muscle 0:52:41 Sponsor acknowledgments 0:53:24 Closing remarks and contact information Resources discussed in this episode:  Article: Luchau, Til: 'Working with the Vagus Nerve' Massage & Bodywork, 2017. https://bit.ly/luchau-workingwiththevagusnerve  Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙What can trained hands feel in irradiated tissue—and how might that inform both research and practice? In this episode, Til Luchau and guest cohost Cathy Ryan, RMT, talk with neurobiologist Dr. Geoffrey Bove and manual therapist/speech pathologist Holly McMillan about their collaborative animal study. They explore how massage therapy may influence radiation-induced fibrosis, the use of palpation as a formal outcome, and the challenges of correlating what we feel with what science can measure. This wide-ranging discussion offers practical takeaways for manual therapists working with inflammation, scarring, or post-radiation clients. Stick around after the outro for a candid “off-mic” bonus segment where Holly describes her hands-on work in surgical oncology settings. ⏱️ Key Topics: • 00:01:31 – Introductions: Cathy Ryan, Geoffrey Bove, Holly McMillan • 00:03:09 – Why this study was exciting to manual therapists • 00:04:18 – Geoffrey Bove on inflammation, nerves, and fibrosis research • 00:08:14 – Holly: how findings might apply beyond radiation cases • 00:13:20 – Holly explains what she was feeling for in irradiated limbs • 00:14:23 – “Buoyancy” and the difficulty of articulating touch-based findings • 00:18:25 – How palpation findings relate to pathology and imaging • 00:20:59 – Fibrosis and lymphedema as a clinical continuum • 00:23:36 – Timing differences in fibrosis between surgery and radiation • 00:24:52 – Study limitations: assay sensitivity vs. palpation sensitivity • 00:27:00 – Movement’s role in mitigating radiation effects • 00:29:00 – The importance of community, alliance, and social touch • 00:33:27 – Timing of manual therapy before and after radiation • 00:35:00 – Prevention vs. treatment of fibrosis • 00:37:18 – What kind of touch is most helpful, and when • 00:40:00 – Oncology-specific timing considerations for manual therapy • 00:42:29 – Manual therapy goals in early vs. late stages post-surgery • 00:44:09 – What practitioners are really touching: inflammation, edema, fibrosis • 00:45:49 – Apprenticeship vs. protocol-driven training in touch therapy • 00:47:34 – Final thoughts from Geoffrey and Holly • 00:50:56 – Bonus: “Off-mic” conversation—Holly’s stories from surgical manual therapy work • 00:51:09 – Holly describes doing manual therapy in open surgical fields • 00:52:13 – Avoiding surgery or enabling access through touch • 00:53:27 – “Sun-dried tomato” vs. “beef jerky”: metaphors for tissue change • 00:54:15 – Scar tissue, fibrosis, nociceptors, and innervation • 00:55:57 – The gap between pain-focused and function-focused care • 00:57:08 – “The Diary of Holly” and the value of descriptive clinical cases Resources discussed in this episode:  Study: Bove, G. M., McMillan, H., & Barbe, M. F. (2024). Evaluating massage therapy for radiation-induced fibrosis in rats: preliminary findings and palpation results. Cancer Biology & Therapy, 25(1). https://doi.org/10.1080/15384047.2024.2436694  https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/10.1080/15384047.2024.2436694  and supplemental file https://advanced-trainings.com/materials_ttp/147_bove_supplemental_kcbt_a_2436694_sm2290.pdf  Also mentioned in this episode: McMillan, H., Barbon, C. E. A., Cardoso, R., Sedory, A., Buoy, S., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Mayo, L., & Hutcheson, K. A. (2022). Manual Therapy for Patients With Radiation-Associated Trismus After Head and Neck Cancer. JAMA otolaryngology-- head & neck surgery, 148(5), 418–425. https://doi.org/10.1001/jamaoto.2022.0082 Hutcheson, K., McMillan, H., Warneke, C., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Buoy, S., Wang, J., Woodman, K., Lai, S., & Fuller, C. (2021). Manual Therapy for Fibrosis-Related Late Effect Dysphagia in head and neck cancer survivors: the pilot MANTLE trial. BMJ open, 11(8), e047830. https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2020-047830 McMillan, H., Warneke, C. L., Buoy, S., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Lai, S. Y., Fuller, C. D., & Hutcheson, K. A. (2025). Manual Therapy for Fibrosis-Related Late Effect Dysphagia in Head and Neck Cancer Survivors: The MANTLE Nonrandomized Clinical Trial. JAMA otolaryngology-- head & neck surgery, 151(4), 319–327. https://doi.org/10.1001/jamaoto.2024.5157 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this thought-provoking episode, Til and Whitney welcome back fascia researcher Robert Schleip to explore the evolving science behind fascia’s role in emotional regulation, inflammation, and sensory experience. They dive into Schleip’s keynote for the upcoming 7th International Fascia Research Congress and discuss emerging research on fascia as a dynamic neuro-immune interface. Robert shares his updates on fascinating insights into attention, depression, touch, circadian rhythms, and how fascia may bridge body and mind in ways we’re only beginning to understand. 🕑 Key Topics 04:15 – Schleip’s keynote preview: fascia, emotion, and immune interaction 06:09 – The new direction of the 2025 Fascia Research Congress 07:55 – Polyvagal theory and fascia: Schleip on Porges and the vagus nerve 12:15 – Fascia and depression: new findings on thickened epimysium 20:47 – Foam rolling, mindful attention, and emotional filtering in depression 26:12 – Reticular formation, attention, and touch outcomes 32:07 – Therapist vs client attention: new data on treatment impact 37:12 – The history and evolution of the Fascia Research Congress 44:04 – Fascia, safety, and perceptual context 48:00 – Sliding fascia and emotional stress: 48-hour delay and resilience 51:40 – New paradigm: from force transmission to circadian rhythms and synthesis 56:21 – Schleip’s takeaway: return to wonder and curiosity under the stars 💡 Join the Conversation:  Share your thoughts with us! 📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com  Resources discussed in this episode:  Fascia & depression study: Michalak J, Aranmolate L, Bonn A, Grandin K, Schleip R, et al. (2021) Myofascial Tissue and Depression, Cognitive Therapy and Research – https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8688142/ Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙Cal Cates returns to The Thinking Practitioner to explore the essential role massage therapy can play in palliative and end-of-life care. In conversation with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe, Cal shares practical insights, personal stories, and the philosophy behind Healwell’s innovative mPATH training program. Together they unpack ways that all massage therapists and bodyworkers can better support patients, caregivers, and care teams—not by fixing, but by listening, noticing, and showing up with presence. 🌟 Key Topics: [04:37] What is palliative care—and where massage therapy fits [07:15] The cultural fear of dying and how it limits care [11:38] Common assumptions therapists make about palliative care [13:21] Massage therapy is palliative care—philosophically and practically [16:36] Caregiver stress: why the family is the “unit of care” [20:23] Communication as the primary intervention in palliative settings [24:06] How therapeutic touch invites emotional openness [25:44] Self-regulation and presence as clinical skills [31:38] Cal’s personal story: how they began this work [36:39] Are we making progress as a culture in facing death? [38:37] Skills and mindsets bodyworkers can cultivate [46:16] The mPATH program: advanced training for palliative care massage [52:21] What can go wrong without proper preparation [57:13] Technique is important—but presence makes it land [58:17] Resources and where to learn more 💡 Join the Conversation:  Share your thoughts with us! 📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com  Resources discussed in this episode:  Healwell's mPATH program: https://Healwell.org/mPATH Cal's recommendations Palliative Touch by Cindy Spence Oncology Massage: An Integrative Approach to Cancer Care by Rebecca Sturgeon and Janet Penny Massage Therapy and Medical Conditions: a Decision Tree Approach by Tracy Walton Vital Talk The Center to Advance Palliative Care Mandy Bartolovich on the Folding Towels podcast talking about pediatric palliative massage work and her research.  Friday Chalk Talk - Palliative Care Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "thinking" at https://www.frscongress.org/  About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙Til Luchau speaks with physiotherapist and fascia researcher Fabiana Silva about the emerging connections between fascia, the vagus nerve, and systemic inflammation. They explore both the science and the practical applications of manual therapy, transcutaneous vagus nerve stimulation, and the challenges of clinical research in the hands-on healing arts. Fabiana is also the President of the Fascia Research Society, and shares highlights from the upcoming 2025 Fascia Research Congress in New Orleans. 🎧 Tune in to learn how fascia influences vagal tone, inflammation, mood, and more — and how practitioners can work more effectively with these systems. 🌟 Key Topics: •[02:59] Introduction to fascia and the vagus nerve connection •[05:02] Transcutaneous vagus nerve stimulation and clinical uses •[07:27] Vagus nerve’s role in inflammation and chronic illness •[09:48] Manual therapy, breathwork, and vagal tone •[12:26] Fascia as sensory interface and its impact on vagal signaling •[20:10] Hands-on techniques: suboccipital and gut fascia release •[23:33] Challenges in manual therapy research •[28:29] Predatory journals and the need for better fascia research •[33:59] Fascia Research Congress 2025: what’s coming up •[37:51] Building community and collaboration in the fascia field •[41:37] Fabiana’s closing thoughts on the future of fascia research --- 💡 Join the Conversation:  Share your thoughts with us! 📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com  Resources discussed in this episode:  The 7th International Fascia Research Congress, August 10–14, 2025: https://www.frscongress.org/  Fascia Research Society: https://fasciaresearchsociety.org/  Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "thinking" at https://www.frscongress.org/  About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)