Neal asks: Is beauty an independent force in nature, or is it merely a projection of human values?

Drew, with a master's in ethnomusicology and a voracious interest in all things music, joins The Meaning Code today to open up the ancient view of music as relationships, balance, proportion. Through the lens of Aristoxenus and Boethius, we explore -memory as the mother of the muses -the original meaning of Harmonia as proportion and balance -relationships between notes in a melody -principles of Melos - realign, reharmonizes body, soul, mind -dunamis (function - power & potential) Music doesn't exist at any one time but between times. Memory fixes the past and perception leads to the future. Before Plato, all knowledge was in poetry form. Music of the Spheres or Harmony of the Cosmos? Music as an apologetic

Brendan Graham Dempsey and Cory Barker help Karen to gain a greater understanding of Metamodernism. Brendan is writer, poet, farmer, and systems thinker. As Director of Sky Meadow Institute, he works on productively bridging the divide between science and spirituality. Cory has a Master of Arts in Social Science and Informatics and is working on a PhD with a research focus on applying big picture thinking to improved AGI design. He serves as President of the Archdisciplinary Research Center (Arc.voyage) If you haven't already seen it, I highly recommend my first conversation with Cory Barker as background (which explores the concept of moving from discipline, to interdisciplinary, transdisciplinarity and finally to archdisciplinarity as a method of solving intractable problems.) We also cover how the world works and other interesting things:-). https://youtu.be/LwqByLmk1AU?si=LqS2kXXfo4-Qj99_ Topics covered: (If anyone wants to turn this into timestamps, go for it.) AGI, LLM's, tokenization and statistical inference Computable functions related to development psychology The natural relations of Knowledge More efficient systems that take less energy to run The brain autonomously organizes information Universal classes of human experience Dynamic skill Theory, Kurt Fischer Reflexes, sensory motor, representations skills, pairing concepts and action/words, abstraction The Universal Learning Process Adaptive Complexity Coupling of an agent to its environment (wittedness) Variation and selective retention Autopoesis and cognition Coupling between elements and the formal systems Unlike other animals, we are not perfectly fitted to our environment, but are made for space Antagonism drives adaptation. We are not endlessly pliable Our linguistic component allows us to go off into abstract space The free energy principle, maximum freedom Think beyond our environments We advance on the basis of our previous equilibriums Ted Lasso and metamodernism Critique and transcend (the pattern of culture shock, also) Universal process of automation Cause and Effect Forming a stable system with a boundary space Cascades through the interior Universal process of concretion Creates a stake through the system The optical way to process info Free energy principal A set of expectations, a model that we hope will hold up and avoid surprise We continually update our model and that will minimize the distance between our expectation and the reality Anomaly drives hierarchical complexification How space affects equilibrium Turning point Ted Lasso and space Earnestness and Sincerity in the context of irony and cynicism Bill Tolbert, Action Inquiry A stage model of managerial styles postmodernism - ironist metamodern - a sense of coherence @ what is going on Understanding how things are relating to each other Arch modernism Entropy production is creative Alicia Juarrero Maximum complexity before it becomes chaos Randomness is not high in info Chaology - a study of the hidden order inside chaos, too difficult for us to understand at this point Metamodernism, transcending the critique of postmodernism

Brantley Vosler, host of the Transposition Podcast, joins Karen to talk about C S Lewis' essay of that name, as well as Lewis' argument against Bulverism. Along the way, we dive into the symbolism of Silo! Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:00 Exploring the Concept of Transposition 09:08 The Transposition of Ideas in Music 14:26 Vertical Causation and Spirituality 20:50 Themes of Power and Weakness in Scripture 27:34 Symbolism in "Silo" and Christian Hope 37:04 Discussion on Themes of Hope and Love in Family Dynamics 44:51 Reflections on Love and Gratitude 51:03 C S Lewis' argument against Bulverism 1:00:56 Transposition and AI Insights 1:06:01 Understanding Bulverism and Its Implications 1:13:57 Reductionism as an inversion of transposition

Neal initiated a discussion on the intersection of evolutionary principles and human social phenomena, particularly in relation to organizations and art. He critiqued the dominant scientific perspective that views beauty as a byproduct of natural selection, proposing instead that beauty and design principles are independent evolutionary forces. Neal introduced a dual force model that includes a push away from vulnerability and a pull towards an instinct for quality and beauty, referencing eight principles of design to illustrate these concepts.

Karen Wong and Joy Frimpong engage in a conversation about progressivism, exploring how Joy's educational experiences contributed to her understanding of the ideology. Joy notes that while she can't point to a specific moment of indoctrination, the influence of media and cultural narratives played a significant role in shaping her views. She describes this influence as a "cultural dis-ease" that permeated her academic environment. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:00 The nature of progressivism and its influence on individual identity. 03:10 Reflections on Academic Experience and Ideological Influences 16:57 Progressivism and Utopia. Joy elaborated on the embedded telos within progressivism, arguing that it promotes a self-centric worldview and lacks a grounding in faith expressing concern that this perspective leads to a deceptive notion of progress and justice. 25:03 The concept of sin and its relation to personal identity, suggesting that the struggle between good and evil exists within each individual. How external power structures can lead to internalized anger and health issues. 41:25 Shame and guilt can lead to a sense of dissociation from identity 1:06:25 Personal reflections on education and growth through struggle

Tyler Hollett, a problem-solver and facilitator within Discord communities, shares insights from his journey through various online spaces and the creation of the Metagora project, which aims to streamline educational curricula within a community setting. They conclude by discussing the potential of Tyler's website, which features a dynamic visual representation of available knowledge along with opportunities presented by challenges as catalysts for growth and innovation. Timestamps: 00:00 Exploring Identity and Meaning in a Digital Age 08:38 Tyler’s Journey Through Despair and Discovery 17:30 Concept of "Not Knowing" and Growth Mechanisms 20:53 Collective Dynamics and the Nature of Reality 40:41 Exploring Collective Understanding and Community Building 50:41 Website Functionality and Community Rebuilding Concepts 54:50 The Interplay of Meaning, Relationship, and Choice 1:02:50 Tyler's Journey and Educational Initiatives 1:13:48 Exploring the Nature of Life and Matter 1:25:00 Discussion on Project Development and Website Features

Michael has been a regular on The Meaning Code discussing such topics as Owen Barfield, data compression and radical orthodoxy, and today, he joins to consider the meaning and role of narrative. Topics Covered: Exploring Particle Self-Organization The Limits of Objective Perspective in Science and Transcendence Computational Epistemology and Meaning in Tradition Exploring Desires and Identity through the Lens of Jesus The Intersection of Science and Christianity Evolution of Scientific Narratives Reflections on Control and Freedom Discussion on AI Tools and Personal Updates

Much of this conversation can be enjoyed In podcast form, but if you want to see Lester's art during the discussion, the YouTube format would be better.https://youtu.be/DsLS-vojqt4A rich dialogue between Karen Wong and Lester Rappaport, focusing on their artistic journeys and the intellectual influences (Jordan Peterson and John Vervaeke, among others) that have shaped their work: The conversation sets a collaborative tone, with both participants exploring their artistic processes and the broader cultural movements they are part of, particularly those emerging from Toronto. Lester recounted his introduction to John Vervaeke's ideas and the impact of discussions with other thinkers, which led him to connect with Karen. They both expressed excitement about being part of a transformative intellectual renaissance, highlighting the significance of various influential figures. The conversation then shifted to the artistic history of Toronto, with discussions about the David Mirvish Gallery and the evolution of their respective artistic practices. Karen shared her journey through different painting mediums, while Lester reflected on his transition from drawing to abstract art, emphasizing the importance of spontaneity and exploration in artistic expression. Karen introduced Stephen Wolfram's innovative ideas in physics, particularly his alternative understanding of space and time. This led to a conversation about generative models and the relational aspects of the universe, referencing physicist Carlo Rovelli's views. The dialogue also touched on personal reading habits and the transformative impact of engaging with philosophical texts. With reflections on personal growth, grief, and the transformative power of art, Lester shared how his experiences, including the loss of his mother and a cancer diagnosis, influenced his artistic development and led to significant lifestyle changes. Both participants discussed the interplay of culture and personal experiences in shaping their artistic expressions, referencing Jordan Peterson's insights on navigating cultural roles. The conversation ends with a philosophical exploration of art's implications, with Lester articulating the significance of his artistic choices and Karen emphasizing the connection between life and the creative process.

Brantley Vosler is a worship pastor and joins Karen to talk about the nature of meaning as it relates to music, as a language and as a path forward.

Haris, computer scientist, mathematician and student of the classics, joins Karen to discuss the concept of risk understood through the lens of human cognition and pattern recognition. Timestamps: 00:00 Exploration of Meta-Hypotheses and Platonic Philosophy 07:30 Mount St. Helens and Ecosystem Regeneration 11:30 Quantum Concepts and Universal Fittedness 20:15 Hypothesis Generation and the Nature of Mathematics 28:05 Discussion on Mathematics, Physics, and the Nature of Discovery 39:05 Human Pattern Recognition and Forecasting 51:12 Distinctions Between Teleology and Teleonomy 55:02 Platonism and the Concept of the Demiurge 1:05:02 Decoding Plato's Cryptic Passage through Prime Numbers and Primordials 1:24:18 Holographic Principles and Chiastic Structures The concept of risk understood through the lens of human cognition and pattern recognition