Episode 8.2: Race, Democracy, and the Making of "the People"

Interviewer: RAFAEL KHACHATURIAN. Political theorist MICHAEL GORUP joins the podcast to discuss the intertwined histories of race, democracy, and popular sovereignty in the United States. Drawing on themes from Gorup's book The Counterrevolutionary Shadow: Race, Democracy, and the Making of the American People, the conversation ranges from Jefferson and Reconstruction to Black Power and the contemporary crises of neoliberalism, examining how democratic ideals and racial domination have evolved together across American history.

Interviewer: MATTHEW ROTH. At a moment when tough-on-crime rhetoric, as voiced by Donald Trump and others in the Republican Party, has again become a politically polarizing issue, it is perhaps an opportune time to take stock of the U.S.'s uniquely punitive treatment of certain sorts of crime. Penn political scientist MARIE GOTTSCHALK has long pointed out that, under both Republican and Democratic administrations, the carceral state has expanded and become entrenched amid moral panics – variously about urban disorder, drugs, or sex offenses – that have had a bipartisan sweep. In her new book, Crime and No Punishment: Wealth, Power, and Violence in America, Gottschalk points to a contrary case: corporate crime, or "crime in the suites," which has been treated with ever greater lenience since the 1990s, even as a corporate crime wave brought down the global economy in 2008. In her discussion with historian Matthew Roth, she explores how these are flipsides of the same coin, indicative of how the American political system has redirected rage from those who causes the greatest harms to more vulnerable targets whose crimes pale in comparison.

Interviewer: MATTHEW ROTH. The ways in which the Civil Rights Movement translated passion and protest into durable political change were complex, involving a wide range of actors beyond those most prominently enshrined in the popular imagination. In his new book, political scientist MARION ORR argues for the critical importance of a figure now widely forgotten: Michigan Congressman Charles C. Diggs, Jr., who during his tenure from 1955-1980 was a persistent and effective voice for desegregation and Black self-determination. In his discussion with historian Matthew Roth, Orr describes Diggs' roots in his Detroit family's funeral home, the House of Diggs; his political career as a pathbreaking Black Michigan Senator and then U.S. Congressman; his accomplishments, ranging from the desegregation of airline travel and Washington D.C. home rule to the founding of both the Congressional Black Caucus and institutions critical to the anti-Apartheid movement; and finally, to his downfall with a criminal conviction for the financial mismanagement of his congressional office. Orr's book is House of Diggs: The Rise and Fall of America's Most Consequential Black Congressman, Charles C. Diggs Jr.

Interviewer: RAFAEL KHACHATURIAN. In this episode, DEREK DENMAN explores the concept of "fortress power," a form of governance rooted in the design and control of space. Tracing its origins from early modern fortresses to contemporary borders, cities, and infrastructure, Denman reveals how architecture and planning shape surveillance, movement, and political authority. The conversation examines how promises of security often intensify control and inequality, highlighting the enduring and evolving relationship between space, power, and resistance.

Interviewer: MATTHEW ROTH. Speech was central to the political success of both Barack Obama and Donald Trump, who each emerged through insurgent campaigns bolstered by the energy generated at mass rallies. CODY KEENAN, Director of Speechwriting for the Obama White House, argues that this is where the similarity ends, however. While Obama chose his words carefully in order to navigate the divisions in society and craft a hopeful story of America that foregrounded its ability to change in the face of fear and entrenched prejudice, Trump gives rein to America's reactionary id in a voluminous but largely unstructured stream of speech. In his discussion with historian Matthew Roth, Keenan reflects on the period of the Obama administration at the focus of his bestselling book, Grace: President Obama and Ten Days in the Battle for America, as well as on the art and importance of speechwriting, the state of Democratic politics, and the Obama post-presidency. Keenan is currently a visiting professor at Northwestern University and a partner at the speechwriting firm Fenway Partners.

Interviewer: MATTHEW ROTH. If today's politicians, even and the state and local level, often seem more interested in scoring off ideological opponents to gain clicks than in working across party lines to solve problems, LEO SOLGA aspires to follow a different path. Solga is a recent Penn graduate in Political Science and a candidate in the Democratic primary for Pennsylvania House District 148. In his discussion with historian Matthew Roth, he describes his journey into politics and his positions on such issues as transit, education, reproductive rights, housing, and criminal justice. Above all, he argues that politics can and should be rooted in the concrete concerns of constituents and a deep and personal connection to local districts – and that Pennsylvania state government, which has not yet become consolidated under one party, is a place where cross-party collaboration is a necessity. The Pennsylvania primaries take place on May 19, 2026.

Interviewer: JOSHUA ROSE. In this episode of the Andrea Mitchell Center podcast, Joshua Rose speaks with Penn Political Science Professor JULIA LYNCH about her book Getting Better: The Policy and Politics of Reducing Health Inequalities and the politics of public health. Drawing on case studies from the United States, Brazil, Germany, and the UK, the conversation explores how social inequality, democratic participation, and political will shape health outcomes - and why expanding political voice may be one of the most powerful tools for improving public health.

Interviewer: JOSHUA ROSE.  Host JOSHUA ROSE speaks with Dr. ADAM MOHR, Senior Lecturer in Penn's Critical Writing Program, about his 2023 book The West African Revival: Faith Tabernacle Congregation on the Guinea Coast, 1918–1929. Mohr traces how a Philadelphia-based divine-healing church became an unlikely catalyst for a mass revival across West Africa in the aftermath of the 1918 influenza pandemic—when medical systems faltered and religious healing practices took on new urgency. Mohr follows the revival's long arc into the present, including the Pentecostal traditions it helped seed—and the striking ways those West African churches have since returned to Philadelphia through migration.

Interviewer: JOSHUA ROSE. In this episode of the Andrea Mitchell Center for the Study of Democracy podcast, host JOSHUA ROSE speaks with Penn Law and History Professor SERENA MAYERI about her book Marital Privilege: Marriage, Inequality, and the Transformation of American Law. Mayeri unpacks how Supreme Court decision-making around family and privacy can defy ideological expectations, why challenges to marriage's legal primacy were often fragmented rather than movement-coordinated, and how today's "traditional family values" revival intersects with longstanding conservative legal projects and post-Dobbs uncertainty.

Interviewer: RAFAEL KHACHATURIAN. Over the past decade we have witnessed an unfolding global crisis of democracy, in its liberal-democratic, representative, capitalist form. As elite power has continued to grow without constraints, classical democratic theory has struggled to keep pace with these momentous changes. In this episode, political theorist SAMUEL BAGG sat down with RAFAEL KHACHATURIAN to discuss how elites gain systematic advantages in modern society, and why resisting this state capture is crucial for thinking about the future of democracy. Episode recorded in February 2025.