Testing In The Pub - Making Better Testers (Part II)

On this episode of the QR Podcast, I sit down with my longtime friend Angie Jones, VP at the Agentic AI Foundation and former Head of Developer Relations for AI at Block, for a wide-ranging conversation about what’s real and what’s hype in agentic AI.We get into Block’s experience scaling coding agents, AI productivity claims, Verification Asymmetry, AI reviewing AI, whether independent testing matters more when the developer is a machine, meaningful human oversight, and the AI Manager Paradox: if the future engineer’s value is judgement and supervision, how do we create experienced engineers if agents increasingly perform the work through which that judgement was developed?We also revisit Angie’s warning about the power and incentives behind “Big AI” and ask what changes when you move from criticising that ecosystem to helping build some of its foundational infrastructure.Find AngieLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angiejones/Website: https://angiejones.tech/Agentic AI Foundation: https://aaif.io/References & further readingAgents and Engineers — Are We All Managers Now?https://agentsandengineers.com/episodes/0003-are-we-all-managers-now/Angie Jones — How to Build Reliable AI Agent Systems for Productionhttps://aaif.io/blog/how-to-build-reliable-ai-agent-systems-for-productionAngie Jones & Alan Blount — Where A2A Fits in the Open Agent Ecosystemhttps://aaif.io/blog/where-a2a-fits-in-the-open-agent-ecosystemAngie Jones — How Does Agentic Commerce Work?https://aaif.io/blog/how-does-agentic-commerce-workMEGA — Agentic Engineering Programmehttps://mega.dev/O’Reilly — Engineering Craft When Agents Write the Codehttps://www.oreilly.com/live-events/software-development-superstream-from-ai-conductor-to-ai-orchestrator/0642572365103/0642572365097/Agentic AI Foundation — Agent2Agent (A2A)https://aaif.io/projects/agent2agentYou can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

Ashley Hunsberger and I have known each other through the software testing community for years, sharing panels, conference stages and more than a few conversations about quality, leadership and the realities of working in technology. As well as being super smart and a wealth of information about leadership and building learning teams, Ashley is just a great human being speaking with humility and self reflection in all her example packed stories.In this episode, we explore how her Master’s in Applied Industrial and Organizational Psychology has changed the way she thinks about managing teams, psychological safety, performance management, job design and the growing influence of AI on human work.Enjoy!Links in episode...https://qualityremarks.com/qr-podcast-test-automation-panel/ https://qualityremarks.com/qasymphony-qualityjam-2018-roundtable/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/gitteklitgaard/ https://www.blackboard.com/ https://amycedmondson.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_characteristic_theory https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammgrant/ https://brenebrown.com/hubs/dare-to-lead/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_crafting You can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

He’s the co-creator of Rapid Software Testing and the book Taking Testing Seriously and a really good friend of mine - on this episode of the QR Podcast Michael Bolton and I talk about the current state of software testing, where the profession is heading, and maybe (deep breath) just maybe we talk about something the two of us haven’t spoken about in public together -  AI in testing.It's a long one and we cover a LOT of ground, so strap in and enjoy!https://rapid-software-testing.com/https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/taking-testing-seriously/9781394253197/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recessionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Shorthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Short_(film)https://www.wheresyoured.at/https://qualityremarks.com/the-coming-ai-jobocalypse/https://qualityremarks.com/qr-podcast-jerry-weinberg/https://claude.com/product/claude-codehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunninghamhttps://www.jbrains.ca/“On Magic Boxes” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okSZH4Co3RwGeorge Carlin “The Planet is Fine” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmo8sh77G6Yhttps://chatgpt.com/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maynard_Keyneshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Burryhttps://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/07/generative-ai-engineering-disaster/687901/https://conference.eurostarsoftwaretesting.com/conference/2024/programme/https://www.mca.org.uk/mca-awards/finalists-2026https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittificationhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/nate-custer-a2a02210/https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepschuurkes/https://smallsheds.garden/blog/2026/on-the-acceptance-of-genai/https://www.linkedin.com/in/monettdiaz/https://agileonthebeach.com/https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/02/what-is-chatgpt-doing-and-why-does-it-work/https://spectrum.ieee.org/gpt-4-calm-downhttps://benlevinstein.substack.com/p/a-conceptual-guide-to-transformers-024https://www.newyorker.com/contributors/anthony-lanehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/ebender/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhanYou can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

Paul Holland is an expert at transforming how organizations test to be more efficient, valuable to stakeholders and finding important bugs fast. He’s built and lead test teams all over the planet and in my opinion, is probably the best hands-on test director I’ve ever worked with in my career.He’s one of my closet friends in the testing business having worked, taught, and spent some time in the barrel with each other and is always a good laugh. Listen in as we talk metrics, great test reporting, Taking Testing Seriously, training testers and just generally give each other a hard time…enjoy!You can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

Fiona Charles is an absolute legend in the software testing world and I had the honor of sitting down with her to discuss tech ethics, the human side of technology, her adventures with Jerry Weinberg, and her award winning storied career.Fiona is an encyclopedia of software delivery techniques for communication, risk management, and how to delivery projects with integrity. I'll do my best to add in all the links to every resource she mentioned so enjoy! You can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

Ale Moreira is one of my oldest friends in the testing world, we got to know each other when we were elected to the Association for Software Testing Board of Directors together and then hung around in NYC while we worked at various companies and consultancies.She has always been a fantastic hands-on engineer in testing, and we see a LOT in common when it comes to talking to the business about the value of testing. Her newsletter Road Less Tested is on my list of “must read” testing blogs and she co-hosts the Engineering Quality podcast with a couple of her pals, so listen as we talk selling testing to the business, life after testing "death", and what it takes to lead quality engineering teams in this brave new world...enjoy!You can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

These days, your philosophy about testing is more important than ever and a differentiator in the software testing market. Santosh Tuppad has been leading from the front since I first met him as a rising star at Moolya and through his workshops on security testing with me in the Bronx or in Germany with the Afghan Girls Robotics team.Come take a listen as we talk about the current state of testing skills training in our business, cyber security in the age of AI, and travel far off the beaten path into philosophy, true happiness as a tester, and how many cheese fries is enough...Enjoy! You can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

I first got to know James in 2014 when the Context-Driven community was organising (including your truly) against the rent seeking of ISO 29119 test standard, and as co-chair of CAST for the Association for Software Testing, I invited him to give a talk on Standards – promoting quality or restricting competition?His blog is a "must read" for any serious software tester, and his clear-eyed work on investigating the Post Office Horizon IT Scandal (including his submission) is the benchmark our community should be striving for when it comes to integrity, ethics, and professional standards.Listen in as we discuss what went wrong at the Post Office, good evidence, the role of government in technology, the brewing collision between regulation and IT, and how after so long in this business you can keep your teeth sharp! Enjoy!Links from discussion: What is Good Evidence - Griffin Jones EU fines Apple €500M and Meta €200M for breaking Europe’s digital rules DORA Act EU AI Act UK Murder Prediction US Autism Database You can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

I've been friends with Ash Hynie for over 10 years ever since we started hanging out in NYC working in QA engineering and developer advocacy.She has since gone on to greatness through various consulting gigs and heading up the DEI program at Credit Karma to now founding CountrPT, an AI powered career management platform.Check out our chat about career development, performative DEI, being a good manager, and a lot about how to look out for yourself in today's job market...enjoy!You can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com

Talking with Stephen and Dan in 2016 about how we can help testers and the testing community to improve and keep learning including promoting and educating people about better testing practices such as Context Driven Testing and the transition to better testing, particularly in the enterprise.You can find Keith here: LinkedIn YouTube www.qualityremarks.com