Learning to Nourish (Rather than Deprive) Yourself | Debra Cleveland

I had a great time talking to fellow Optimiser Debra Cleveland about her journey through the Data-Driven Fasting Challenges and Masterclasses. During our live Q&As, Debra was always full of enthusiasm, inspiration, and positive energy as she learned to nourish her body instead of depriving it. This stuck out to me, and I wanted to chat with her to hear more about her ride through health and to see if she had any learnings and insights to share. We discussed: Why is taking care of your body and your health a priority for you? How did you stumble across DDF and the Optimising Nutrition Masterclass? What did you find unique about the process? I see you had some significant changes in your blood glucose and made the DDF leader board. What did you learn from tracking your blood glucose? What did you learn from tracking your macro and micronutrients in the masterclass? What tips would you give for someone just starting out?

It’s been fascinating watching Sidi’s journey progress since initially taking part in our Data-Driven Fasting Challenge and then hopping into the Nutritional Optimisation Masterclass.  Sidi has shed an incredible 20kg (44 lbs) in just five months.  She has also lost 15% body fat and reduced her waist to height ratio from 0.61 to a very healthy 0.49! After getting the ball rolling with Data-Driven Fasting, Sidi powered on to dial in her macronutrients and micronutrients with her local cuisine in Kenya and Cyprus, achieving an incredible 100% Optimal Nutrient Score. Sidi’s journey has developed quite a following amongst her friends, family, and workmates in Kenya.  In fact, her progress has since inspired many people close to her to follow in her footsteps. We love seeing people optimise their nutrition to suit their goals while applying different personal and cultural contexts to their food availability, selection, and preparation. I’ve received numerous requests from community members to learn more about Sidi and her inspiring story and decided to invite her as a guest on the podcast.  I had to have her on for a chat to learn more about her journey and any tips or tricks she had for others embarking on similar journeys towards nutritional optimisation.

Chris Kelly is the founder of Nourish Balance Thrive. Building on his experience as a programmer for hedge funds and large internet companies, he has done amazing things in the health space. After experiencing his own health transformation, he launched Nourish Balance Thrive to help high-calibre athletes optimise their health and performance. After regularly running expensive tests on his clients for years, he figured he could do things his way to save time and money. So he eventually developed BloodSmart.ai, a software that uses inexpensive blood tests from doctor visits to highlight potential issues. Rather than performing thousands of dollars worth of extra tests to find an obscure issue, BloodSmart.ai says, ‘you look like someone with X’. ‘X’ can include various conditions, from heavy metal toxicity to hormone imbalances and nutrient deficiencies. The client can then order targeted tests or address their health situation as if they had ‘condition X’. While a condition might not be validated using the blood test, this can give users the hindsight to address their symptoms with early diet and lifestyle changes.  BloodSmart.ai is an extremely impressive and intelligent application of Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning in health. Chris was one of the early members of the Optimising Nutrition Facebook Group, a hive mind of learning. I’ve enjoyed following his learning journey on his Nourish Balance Thrive Podcast and being a part of his Keto Summit back when keto was all the rage. During Chris’s time on the podcast, it was also interesting to discuss the Four Quadrant Model view of health management. We often start with the most complex ‘hacks’ to manage our biology’s ‘source code’. Sometimes this is necessary. However, we often get the most significant benefits from simple things, like optimising nutrition, managing stress and relationships, and prioritising sunlight, movement, and sleep that align with our evolutionary biology. I’m excited about the potential applications of  BloodSmart.ai. This program allows users to take their standard blood tests and use them to identify nutrient deficiencies. From there, you can manage them with real food rather than resorting to supplements and use Nutrient Optimiser to stay back in Quadrant 1. I hope you love this chat with Chris, who I believe is one of the smartest and wisest people in this health space. You can also listen to my chat with Chris on his Nourish Balance Thrive Podcast discussing our latest research on nutrient density.

Chris has a fascinating background.  After studying economics, business and psychology at Stanford and Harvard, he worked as a trader Ray Dalio at Bridgewater Capital, the world’s biggest hedge fund (now with $150b under management), to a private investor, author, father, athlete and biohacker. Like me, Chris believes in the numbers! After a couple of rounds of Data-Driven Fasting, he’s been trying to get his Silicon Valley biohacker buddies to try it to optimise their health. As a data-driven engineer who’s dabbled in trading, I thought it would be fun to chat with Chris about how we can manage our psychology and biology with data.  How can we tame our lizard brain to avoid self-sabotage that is often caused by our self-doubt in any area, including nutrition? It was fascinating to hear how Data-Driven Fasting helped his brain find peace and calm around food and nutrition.  Having peace that your body will get food exactly when it needs it is a nice change from the anxiety that popular extended fasting methods can often cause.

Paul Burgess has been a great mate, supporter, and mentor throughout my journey to quantitatively define optimal nutrition. When he first invited me on his podcast, I put him off. I felt I still had more work to do before promoting what we were doing at Optimising Nutrition (and also felt a strong sense of imposter syndrome). I’ve now had the privilege of being a guest on his podcast three times. So it was an honour to finally return the favour and have him on the Optimising Nutrition Podcast. Paul has experience in just about every form of tracking, hacking, testing, and biohacking from his four decades of experience in the health space. His podcast is a constant flow of deep dives into the latest testing and functional medicine trends to manage complex issues. While he’s recently become a massive advocate for Data-Driven Fasting, he’s also mellowed.  He has become more passionate about encouraging people to do simple things that work first before diving into rabbit holes of tracking and hacking that often cause plenty of stress and anxiety (not to mention expense!). Likewise, worrying about the latest test, tracker, or supplement is a waste of time if you don’t have your nutrition, sleep, stress, and activity dialled in. Once you get the basics sorted, most people find they don’t need to waste their time, money, and limited headspace on new-fangled fancy stuff! It was fantastic to talk with Paul about what he considers the ‘big rocks’ that most people struggle to get in place and pursue what makes you happy.

It was an honour to chat with Mark Schatzker about his new book, The End of Craving: Recovering the Lost Wisdom of Eating Well. I’ve been a MASSIVE fan of his work since reading The Dorito Effect: The Surprising New Truth About Food and Flavor. Many diet authors blame the obesity epidemic on a single smoking gun (e.g. carbs, fat, tasty food etc.). However, Mark wades through the complicated situation in a fascinating narrative that gives a sense of wonder and mystery to the complex interplay between appetite, flavour, taste, wanting, and liking. Once you have a deeper understanding of how food manufacturers have exploited our neurobiology, you will understand why it’s so important to seek out food that naturally tastes great because it contains the nutrients your body requires. Conversely, if your body doesn’t trust that the smell, flavour, and texture of your food aligns with the nutrients and energy it provides, your appetite will become risk-averse and seek out more food, just in case. One of the narrative threads in The End of Craving discusses the differences in how the US and Italy individually addressed the Pellagra epidemic in the 1930s, a condition resulting from a lack of dietary vitamin B3 from a diet too rich in corn and fat. The U.S. decided they would address the issue with science by fortifying their foods with synthetic versions of the nutrients they were missing.  Meanwhile, the Italians saw food as a cure, not the cause, and encouraged their people to keep rabbits for cheap meat and drink cloudy wine containing yeast that provides B vitamins. Today, the areas in the U.S. that once were called the ‘Pellagra belt’ now make up ‘the obesity belt’.  In contrast, Italians are some of the leanest people in the world and are famous for having some of the most sumptuous edibles on the planet. Mark also draws attention to experiments in the 1960s where pig farmers realised they could grow pork more quickly without their livestock getting sick by keeping them indoors and feeding the diet high in corn fortified with B vitamins. As a result, the pigs would chow down on more fortified grains and achieve historically unprecedented growth rates. Shortly after this discovery, food manufacturers ramped up the fortification of breakfast cereals and other processed foods for humans.  Initially, this looked like fortification benefited the public.  However, it’s now evident that we’re more likely to continue to chow down on highly processed foods without stopping and negating cravings for foods that naturally contain nutrients. I read The End of Craving while analysing an amassed 125,761 days of macronutrient and micronutrient data from 34,519 people who have used Nutrient Optimiser to fine-tune their nutrition. It was fascinating that we crave foods that contain more of these nutrients in the amounts found in nature. However, once levels of select nutrients like B1, B3, iron, and folate exceed natural levels from supplementation or fortification, we seem to simply eat more processed foods without getting all the other nutrients we require! I hope you love this chat with Mark, and I highly recommend his books to understand the beautiful complexity of modern nutrition.

This chat with Matty Lansdown was part interview, part therapy session as I’ve been working on focusing on getting the essential things done in a world designed to distract and monetise your attention. I hope this episode of the Optimising Nutrition Podcast will inspire you to kick start the habits you want to build to empower you to move towards your goals in 2022. Matty Lansdown is a fellow Aussie and host of the popular How Not to Get Sick and Die Podcast, where he dispenses simple, no-nonsense practical health tips. Before becoming a popular speaker in health and nutrition, Matty studied forensic science and was a molecular biologist and epigenetics researcher. I wanted to chat to Matty about the biology of habit change - why we often know what to do and don’t do it.  What ensued was a fun freeform chat and practically a therapy session about managing the overwhelm of dopamine overdrive from food, social media and our modern lifestyle. Listen to our chat to learn how you can do what you want and need to do and turn your hopes into habits in the real world. Podcast Subscribe and listen at: Apple Podcasts Spotify Google Anchor Anchor YouTube Connect with Matty How Not to Get Sick and Die Podcast  Website Facebook Instagram  YouTube

What really underpins our beliefs about nutrition and the food we eat? The truth might shock and surprise you! Our nutritional guidelines and beliefs about food reflect a mixture of cultural, ritual, and religious beliefs and biases, overlayed by financial gains and food propaganda disbursed by manufacturers. But the influence of the Seventh Day Adventist Church (SDA) in establishing our current nutritional guidelines cannot be understated. My family was part of the SDA church until I was about ten, so I have a unique perspective and background regarding this topic. And so does Belinda Fettke.  Belinda dove deep down the rabbit hole to investigate the religious and financial conflicts of interest that govern our food supply and government-recommended dietary intake (RDI). She began her research after her husband, Dr Gary Fettke, an orthopedic surgeon, was professionally reprimanded for suggesting to his patients that they limit sugar to prevent amputations secondary to diabetes. After Belinda's work, Dr Fettke received a formal apology, and the legal ban on teaching patients about the dangers of excess sugar was retracted. Belinda has been a great friend over the years on our shared journey to cut through the noise and conflicts of interest and teach people how to get the nutrients they need from the food they eat.  This is something we are both extremely passionate about.  Empowering people to optimise their nutrition with an unbiased approach is crucial if we are to thrive and not merely survive. I REALLY enjoyed this conversation with Brenda and discussing: What led you to take a deep dive into the origins of our nutritional guidelines? Why do you believe excessive effort went into preventing Gary from cautioning patients to stop eating sugar to prevent amputations secondary to diabetes? Do you think the religious, ethical, or financial biases and conflicts of interest have the most significant influence? How do they overlap? How have religious beliefs influenced our current dietary guidelines? How widespread is the impact of the SDA nutritional views? What is the end game of the SDA nutritional paradigm? Can you change belief with science and data? Why has the plant-based narrative around nutrition become so strong? What role do animals play in a vibrant ecosystem and nutrient density? What are the limitations of simply thinking in terms of plants vs. animals or carbs vs. fat? Why do you think the 'animal protein will adversely affect longevity' belief is so strong? What are the implications of optimising your diet to minimise 'sexual vice/function'? What are the most significant financial conflicts of interest at play in our current food system? How are optimal metabolic health and hormonal function interrelated? What are some of the conflicts in the major organisations shaping our dietary choices? How can we move on from belief-based nutrition? Where should we focus? Do you think change will come from the top down? Why isn't nutrition science focused on getting adequate nutrients with an appropriate amount of energy? Who would stand to lose if we concentrate on getting the nutrients we need from food? What can we do on a personal level to change nutritional dogma? How do you eat at home as a family? What are you excited about in the future?

University of Sydney Professors Stephen Simpson and David Raubenheimer’s work in protein leverage is perhaps the most important body of research around, empowering us to understand our appetite and what leads us to eat more (or less) than we need to. Professor Stephen Simpson is the executive director of Obesity Australia and the academic director of the Charles Perkins Centre.    PubMed shows that he has published a whopping 361 journal articles! Professors David Raubenheimer, originally from South Africa, began working with Professor Simpson as a PhD student in Oxford.  Many of his 197 research articles are co-authored with Professor Simpson. They are perhaps best known for their 2005 Protein Leverage Hypothesis paper, which aligns with much of our research and analysis of data from people using Nutrient Optimiser. In 2012 they published The Nature of Nutrition, and in 2020 they published Eat Like the Animals to bring their research to the public. In  August last year, I wrote a blog discussing Eat Like the Animals.  They subsequently reached out to start a dialogue to discuss some points of difference and agreed to take the time to come on for a podcast chat. It was such a pleasure and honour to discuss a range of topics around their groundbreaking research, including: How does looking at insects and animals give us unique insights into human biology? How did the Protein Leverage Hypothesis come about?  How did you go from studying insects and animals to cracking the code for human nutrition? What were some of the objections to the acceptance of the Protein Leverage Hypothesis? What are the implications of protein leverage for diabetes and blood sugar management? Is protein leverage about eating more protein or less energy from carbs and fat? Why is it crucial to think about the interaction of all three macronutrients? How does someone know if they are getting adequate protein based on their goals and context? What are the downsides of a chronic high protein %?  When should someone add in more carbs and/or fat in their diet rather than more protein? What does the future hold in terms of translating this more into the public consciousness? How does your research affect the way you eat at home? Do you have any tips on how people can apply this practically in their lives?

Craig Emmerich is the author of the book “Keto: The Complete Guide” and the PMSF Cookbook and hubby to Maria Emmerich. Mariah and Craig have been at the forefront of the keto movement since way before it was trendy.  Craig is a fellow engineer who seeks to understand how things work to understand how to help people more effectively with their books and MANY cookbooks, website and Facebook groups. I have been chatting with Craig for years about nutrition for the past six years since the early days of the Optimising Nutrition Facebook Group, where we were all avidly sharing and learning the nuances of nutrition.  Like me, he shares a lot of the frustration of what ‘keto’ has become and works to correct the many false beliefs that lead people down the wrong path. This was a great chat to reflect with Craig on the past and future trajectory of the ‘keto’ movement.  We discussed: What are the biggest misconceptions in the low carb/keto nutrition space? What are the most common issues you encounter with your clients who come to you for guidance? When is dialling up protein % appropriate (e.g. PSMF)? Do you recommend chasing higher ketones? Should you eat more fat to lose body fat? What would you change in Ketoland if you could? Does fat or protein with nutrient density and satiety? Why is insulin so misunderstood? Finally, where do you see the keto movement heading in the future? You can also check out my chat with Mariah and Craig here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reXt0p7P1-I Follow Craig & Maria Emmerich Maria Mind Body Health Twitter Instagram Facebook YouTubeAmazon