Charles Manning on Why Measurement Is the Secret Weapon in the Age of Agentic AI

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Sam Garfield, Head of Digital Strategy for CMT Data and AI Platforms at Adobe, to explore how Adobe is quietly becoming the backbone of modern marketing. Sam breaks down how Adobe operates across three core layers: the creative layer (Creative Cloud and Firefly AI), the content supply chain layer (Workfront and asset management), and the data and experience layer (customer data platforms and analytics). Together, these tools form what Sam describes as an operating system for marketers -- a full-stack solution that takes a brand from ideation all the way through activation and measurement. We also dig into the rise of creative intelligence and what it means for brands, agencies, and the future of advertising. Sam unpacks Adobe's Winterberry Group research showing a 23% increase in investment in creative intelligence, and explains why creative can no longer be treated as a fixed cost. We cover how generative AI is accelerating asset production at scale, why agencies are leaning into Adobe's platform rather than building from scratch, and how agentic AI is beginning to appear inside existing workflows. Sam also reveals that traffic to brand sites and publishers is down 40% as LLMs reshape discovery, and shares how Adobe's new LLM Optimizer tool is helping brands regain visibility in a generative search world.   Key Highlights 🖥️ Adobe's Marketing Operating System: Sam breaks down how Adobe's three-layer platform -- creative, content supply chain, and data -- functions as an end-to-end OS for brands and agencies. 🤖 Generative AI and the Asset Scale Problem: Sam walks through the math problem facing global brands -- producing assets across formats, languages, and channels -- and why generative AI is the only scalable solution. 📊 Creative Intelligence Is the Next Frontier: Adobe's research with Winterberry Group found a 23% increase in creative intelligence investment -- and Sam explains why understanding why content performs is becoming as systematic as audience targeting. 🏢 Agencies Are Building on Top, Not From Scratch: Major holding companies are integrating Adobe into their proprietary platforms rather than building from scratch -- including a recently expanded WPP partnership. 🔍 LLMs Are Reshaping Brand Discovery: Adobe's research shows traffic to brand sites is down 40% as AI changes how consumers find information. Sam shares how Adobe's new LLM Optimizer helps brands monitor and improve their visibility inside AI-generated results. ⚡ Agentic AI Is Here but Still Early: There is no end-to-end agentic advertising solution yet. Adobe's approach is to embed agentic tools inside existing workflows so teams can get started without overhauling their entire operation. Resources & Next Steps 🌐 Explore Adobe's Marketing and AI Solutions 🔗 Follow Sam Garfield on LinkedIn 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts   YouTube Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Cold open -- AI's impact on advertising and brand discovery 01:00 Mike introduces Sam Garfield and Adobe's role in ad tech 01:30 Sam's background and Adobe's history in advertising 02:00 Adobe's three-layer marketing platform explained 03:00 The 'operating system for marketers' concept 03:50 Who is Adobe's customer -- brands, agencies, or publishers? 04:20 The expanded WPP and agency partnership announcement 05:10 Where creative AI optimization stands today 05:40 The asset scale math problem facing global brands 06:20 Laying the generative AI foundation for creative 07:10 From production efficiency to intelligent automation 08:00 Precor creative intelligence and variation at scale 08:40 How conservative vs. progressive brands approach AI 09:10 Adobe Firefly and legally obtained training data 09:40 Workflow integration as the real barrier to adoption 10:10 Humans as creatives, AI as the production layer 10:50 How Adobe fits alongside platform-native AI tools 11:30 Why CMOs won't hand over full creative control to platforms 13:30 Adobe's Winterberry Group creative intelligence research 14:00 Creative as a performance driver, not a fixed cost 14:30 The 23% increase in creative intelligence investment 15:00 Where creative intelligence works -- display, social, CTV 15:30 Early findings and the testing and learning phase 16:10 Are creative agencies threatened or empowered by AI? 16:30 How major holding companies are building on Adobe's OS 17:10 Automating rote work to free up strategic creative thinking 18:20 Creative AI and media buying converging 19:00 Data and creative intelligence coming together at Adobe 19:40 The future of always-on marketing vs. campaign flights 20:20 The network operations center vision for marketing 21:00 Agentic AI in advertising -- where things actually stand 21:30 Adobe's approach to building agentic tools inside workflows 22:00 What agentic audience pulling looks like in practice 22:30 The future of media agencies in an algorithmic world 23:10 People doing higher-value strategic work, not less work 23:40 How brands are showing up inside LLMs 24:00 Adobe's research -- traffic to brand sites down 40% 24:30 Introducing the LLM Optimizer tool 25:00 Structuring content for generative engine optimization 25:40 Will search ad budgets shift to LLM visibility strategies? 26:20 The unknown future of advertising inside AI-generated results 27:10 Wrap-up -- the fulfillment of advertising's long-promised future

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Philip Inghelbrecht, Co-Founder and CEO of Tatari, to unpack why one of the most innovative companies in TV advertising has built its entire thesis on a contrarian idea: that programmatic CTV is the wrong tool for most of the television market. Philip walks through how Tatari operates as a full infrastructure holding company, combining a demand-side platform, a supply-side solution called Upstream, and a privacy and identity layer called Vault. From day one, Tatari has argued that unlike display advertising, connected TV is dominated by a small number of premium publishers, and that automating around them rather than through open exchanges is the smarter path forward. Philip breaks down the $30 billion US CTV market, explaining how roughly half flows through programmatic channels and how up to half of that programmatic slice is fraud or low-quality inventory. The premium inventory that actually drives results, including sports, tentpole events, and top-tier streaming placements, lives almost entirely outside programmatic pipes and has historically required massive budgets and manual negotiation to access. That is exactly the gap Upstream was designed to close. By building custom, direct integrations with the five biggest TV publishers, including Disney, Warner Bros., NBCUniversal, and Paramount, Tatari has automated that direct buying process end to end, giving a much broader range of brands access to premium TV inventory without sacrificing pricing control, brand safety, or transparency.   Key Highlights 📡 Programmatic CTV Is Built on the Wrong Foundation: Philip explains why the SSP/DSP model designed for display advertising is a poor fit for connected TV, where 90% of streaming impressions come from the same top 10 publishers and the most valuable inventory never appears in an open exchange. 💰 The $30 Billion Reality Check: Of the roughly $30 billion US CTV market, about $15 billion flows through programmatic. Philip reveals that up to half of that programmatic pool is fraud or low-quality supply, meaning only $7 to $8 billion represents genuinely premium inventory. 🚀 Upstream Brings Automation to Direct TV Deals: Tatari spent nearly two years building one-to-one tech integrations with Disney, Warner Bros., NBCUniversal, and Paramount, enabling fully automated direct buys that preserve the brand safety and pricing control of traditional direct sales while eliminating manual overhead. 📺 Premium TV Is Now Within Reach for More Brands: Upstream shifts TV advertising from a big-budget brand privilege to something accessible to a much broader set of advertisers. Brands that never could have accessed premium placements now have a real path in, and early publisher partners have already seen doubled transaction volume during the test period. 🤖 AI in TV Advertising Has Promise But Real Limits: Philip is measured about AI's near-term impact on TV. He sees immediate wins in automating creative pre-approval and longer-term potential in data-driven yield optimization for publishers, but pushes back on the idea that AI will quickly transform the TV creative production process.   Resources & Next Steps 🔗 Follow Philip Inghelbrecht on LinkedIn 🌐 Explore Tatari 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts   Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Cold open - the programmatic CTV reality check 01:18 Introducing Philip Inghelbrecht and Tatari 01:58 Tatari's three-product infrastructure stack explained 03:30 Why programmatic does not fit connected TV 05:00 The problem with SSP aggregation in a concentrated market 06:17 How Upstream was born from supply-side tech 07:22 Breaking down the $30 billion CTV market 08:06 Half of programmatic CTV is fraud or low quality 09:44 Building direct integrations with Disney, Warner, NBCU, Paramount 10:17 How automation benefits publishers and speeds up transactions 11:45 Doubling volume with early publisher partners 12:28 Is TV right for SMBs? Philip's honest take 13:47 Where Upstream takes the market next 15:00 Using first-party data to drive higher publisher yield 16:21 Programmatic still has a role, just not the biggest one 17:17 What Dentsu and WPP's open path retreat signals 18:26 Will the walled gardens ever join Upstream? 18:52 What changes for existing Tatari advertisers 20:00 AI and the future of TV advertising 22:11 AI creative tools: impressive but still five days of editing 22:56 AI for creative pre-approval: what works today 24:16 First-party data capture is harder than it looks 25:36 Measurement, look-alike audiences, and machine learning loops 26:13 Closing thought - the biggest TV inventory is not in programmatic

In this episode of Next in Media, Mike Shields sits down with Leanne Perice, founder and CEO of Made by All, one of the creator economy's most distinctive talent management firms. Leanne shares how she built the company from the ground up over nine years, starting with a single $1,000 deal in 2014 and growing it into a global powerhouse that doubles revenue year over year. She explains how her early career at a celebrity endorsement agency gave her the blueprint for what great talent management looks like, and how she applied those lessons to an entirely new generation of digital creators. From signing Vine stars before the term 'creator economy' even existed, to opening a new office in Dubai, Leanne has built Made by All on the belief that creators deserve the same strategic investment as Hollywood's biggest names. Leanne also introduces her framework DASI (Distribution, Attention, Storytelling, and Impact) to explain what creators truly offer brands, and why so many marketers are still only tapping into the first letter. She opens up about the CMO turnover crisis slowing momentum in the creator space, why she launched Made by Us as a social storytelling studio, and why she believes YouTube's long-form monetization is the best opportunity in the market right now. She also gives her take on platforms like YouTube and TikTok brokering brand deals directly, the collision of Hollywood and Silicon Valley financial models, and what brands still get wrong about building a presence on social media. This episode is a must-listen for anyone at the intersection of media, marketing, and the creator economy.   Key Highlights 🚀 From $1,000 to Global: Leanne closed her first creator deal in 2014 for just $1,000. By 2015 to 2017, those deals were stacking to $10K, $15K, and $25K a week. Today, Made by All doubles its revenue annually and has just opened its first international office in Dubai. 🎯 The DASI Framework: Leanne coined the term DASI to capture the four things creators offer brands: Distribution, Attention, Storytelling, and Impact. She argues most brands stop at the 'D' and miss the deeper value creators can deliver when treated as true partners rather than just reach vehicles. 🎬 Creator Hollywood: While streaming platforms like Tubi and Netflix are building bridges toward creators, Made by All is betting on the reverse: bringing Hollywood-level IP and infrastructure to the creator world. Leanne describes this as 'Creator Hollywood,' a model she has been building the financial and conceptual vision for over the past eight months. 📣 The CMO Turnover Problem: Leanne points to constant executive turnover at major brands as one of the biggest obstacles to sustained creator partnerships. Her solution is relationship-first thinking, including getting creators in the room with senior brand teams and building personal connections that outlast any single campaign or budget cycle. 📺 Betting Big on YouTube: Leanne is pushing all of her clients toward long-form content on YouTube, calling it the best monetization opportunity in the creator space today. With more ad slots per video and growing ad revenue, she sees YouTube's long-form model as the foundation for sustainable creator businesses, especially as the platform increasingly dominates living room screens. 💡 Made by Us: Leanne's newest venture inside Made by All is a social storytelling studio that positions top creators as creative directors for brands. Rather than just placing clients in sponsorship deals, Made by Us helps brands develop viral content strategies, serialized IP, and stronger owned social platforms using the expertise of creators who understand audiences from the inside out. 🏆 The Power of the Collective: One of Leanne's standout success stories involves six Made by All clients who traveled to Las Vegas for a UFC fight with Paramount. They fulfilled their individual contracts, then spontaneously created one extra post together just for fun. That single unplanned post generated over 1.5 million likes, 30 million views, and 20,000 comments in the first 48 hours.   Resources & Next Steps 🔗 Follow Leanne Perice on LinkedIn 🌐 Explore Made by All 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts   Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Cold open: Creator economy and building household names 00:53 Intro: Mike sets up the episode 01:00 Meet Leanne Perice and Made by All 01:32 The origin story: nine years and one thesis 02:20 What makes Made by All different from a talent agency 03:10 Holistic creator management: more than just deals 04:30 Leanne's career path: from middle school dream to Hollywood 05:20 First job at a celebrity endorsement agency 05:50 Signing Vine stars before 'creator economy' was a term 06:10 The first $1,000 deal and stacking to $25K a week 07:00 How marketers have evolved in dealing with creators 07:40 Introducing the DASI framework 08:00 Made by Us: creators as creative directors for brands 09:00 Brand spend and the challenge of executive turnover 09:40 Going global: opening the Dubai office 11:10 Hollywood vs. creator economy: two separate financial models 11:50 Building the bridge to Creator Hollywood 12:40 Why Hollywood is still holding on but change is coming 13:20 Alarming speed of the creator world vs. legacy media 14:10 Brokering brand deals: management vs. agents 15:00 Cold calling and building brand relationships since 2014 15:50 Weekly email blasts to 5,000 brands and agencies 16:30 Why management has an edge over agents in the creator space 16:50 Streamlining brand deals with AI and tools like KOMI 18:00 When creators should lead the creative brief 19:00 The Made by Us social storytelling incubator 19:30 CMO turnover and the need for relationship-first brand strategy 20:00 How intentional creator relationships unlock better campaigns 21:00 Success story: UFC fight with Paramount, 30 million views 22:00 Qatar Airlines, Abu Dhabi, and global creator deals 22:20 The NFL's creator-first approach as a model for brands 23:00 YouTube and TikTok brokering deals internally 23:40 What Leanne wants to see improved: local and global platform metrics 25:00 YouTube's rise in the living room and long-form monetization 25:40 Pushing creators toward long-form content strategy 26:20 TikTok and Instagram moving into TV: will it work? 27:00 Short form on TV vs. the intentional social media experience 27:30 What brands still get wrong about social media 28:00 Closing thoughts and final takeaway

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down live at the Kochava Summit in Sandpoint, Idaho, with Charles Manning, founder and CEO of Kochava. We go deep on one of the most pressing questions facing the industry right now: how profound is the shift to agentic advertising and AI-driven workflows? Charles argues it is not a decade-long evolution like programmatic was. It is breathtakingly faster, and the companies that understand how to use their first-party data as a competitive kernel, rather than leaking it to the walled gardens, are the ones that will come out ahead. He draws a compelling analogy: if programmatic changed the auction, AI is about to change the workflow.We also dig into Kochava's CTV journey, from its mobile app roots to building measurement tools adopted by LG, Samsung, Vizio, and Roku, and how the view-and-do combo between the TV screen and the mobile device is creating powerful new outcome-based measurement opportunities for brands. Charles breaks down what holding companies should fear (and fix), why the ad tech supply chain is due for serious consolidation, and why he predicts a wave of take-privates and roll-ups followed by a bonanza of public offerings over the next two years. He also introduces Station One, Kochava's integrative AI hub that acts like a Slack for AI workflows, designed to help teams transform how they work without giving up control of their data. Key Highlights:⚡ AI vs. Programmatic: Charles explains why the shift to agentic advertising is moving breathtakingly faster than programmatic did. While programmatic took over a decade to fully reshape the auction, AI is set to transform the entire workflow within the next 16 months.🔒 Protect Your Data: Charles identifies the two biggest risks brands face in the AI era. First, leaking proprietary data to platforms like Meta and making them smarter without benefiting your own organization. Second, failing to develop a unique "how" that cannot be replicated when everyone has access to the same AI tools.📺 CTV Measurement Evolution: Kochava's Atlas Performance product now powers CTV measurement for LG, Samsung, Vizio, and Roku by connecting the view on the television screen with the action on the mobile device, giving brands a clear picture of real business outcomes from their CTV spend.🤖 Station One, a Slack for AI: Charles introduces Kochava's Station One platform, an integrative AI hub that lets teams connect models, codify skills, build knowledge bases, and containerize workflows into shareable workspaces, all while keeping data ownership firmly in the hands of the brand.📉 Ad Tech Consolidation Is Coming: Charles predicts a significant collapse in the ad tech supply chain, with SSPs and DSPs already moving into each other's territory. He also foresees a wave of take-privates and roll-ups over the next 16 months, as companies use the cover of private ownership to restructure for the AI era, followed by a major IPO bonanza.💼 The Future Workforce: As AI handles more of the analytical grunt work, Charles argues the most valuable skill in the industry is shifting away from data science and toward clear communication. The ability to articulate your goals to an AI model is becoming the defining talent of the next generation of media professionals. Resources & Next Steps:🌐 Explore Kochava and learn more about Atlas Performance and Station One🔗 Follow Charles Manning on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts Chapter Timestamps:00:00 Cold open - AI disruption and the next 16 months01:00 Welcome and introducing Charles Manning of Kochava01:20 Revisiting a past conversation and what has changed01:45 Setting the stage - agentic advertising and the metaverse PTSD problem02:20 The next decade is really the next 16 months03:10 How fast is this vs. the programmatic shift?03:50 MCP, APIs, and how AI wraps the workflow05:20 Machine learning from reach optimization to business outcomes06:10 From post-campaign briefs to real-time workflow automation07:20 Why big platforms like Meta and Google got even stronger with AI08:00 The two biggest risks brands face in the AI era09:00 The "how" is as important as the "what" - competitive differentiation09:50 Can agencies avoid being commoditized by AI?10:20 Vertical AI and why domain expertise matters12:00 Measurement as an odometer vs. measurement as a decision engine13:20 The racing clutch analogy - agile measurement for agile goals14:00 Who fills the seats next? The shift from data scientists to communicators15:00 Tasks that get reallocated and skills that become more valuable16:00 How far away is autonomous agentic media buying?16:30 Guardrails, budget constraints, and agent managers17:10 Introducing Station One - Kochava's AI workflow hub18:10 How teams transition from human workflows to AI-assisted execution19:00 Kochava's CTV journey - from mobile app roots to the living room20:10 The 80-inch mobile device and why OEMs saw the pattern21:20 Why OEMs pushed back and how Atlas Performance was born22:10 LG, Samsung, Vizio, Roku - how they became Kochava customers23:00 Is CTV performance TV? How should we measure it?23:40 The view-and-do combo - TV impressions and mobile actions24:10 QSR and loyalty programs - CTV driving real consumer behavior25:00 Why AI optimization has not hit CTV the way it has Meta and Google26:00 Station One as the connective tissue for CTV and the broader ecosystem27:20 Will more ad dollars flow to television? Charles says yes, and soon28:30 Audience Q&A - how to prove CTV incrementality to your CFO29:00 The Machine Zone story and what it taught Charles about media mix31:30 Why media mix modeling finally works in the AI era32:10 What happens to ad tech? The daisy chain gets disrupted33:00 SSPs and DSPs are already moving into each other's territory34:00 More money in media, less ad tax - where the dollars go next35:00 Premium inventory, exclusive access, and the sports betting parallel36:10 IO-level programmatic guaranteed - a bold prediction37:00 The biggest obstacle ahead - take-privates, roll-ups, and an IPO bonanza38:30 Wrap-up and closing thoughts

This week on Next in Media, I sat down with Matt Spiegel, EVP of Marketing Solutions Growth Strategies at TransUnion, to unpack one of the most pressing questions in advertising right now: what's actually changed since cookies started disappearing and privacy laws started piling up? And just as importantly, what hasn't changed? Matt brings a refreshingly practical perspective to the conversation, explaining how disconnected data infrastructure remains the biggest obstacle for most brands, even as everyone races to adopt AI-powered marketing. He breaks down why walled gardens still have an inherent advantage, how signal loss is forcing marketers to rethink their strategies, and why the industry's obsession with the "easy button" might be holding progress back.We also tackled some uncomfortable truths about where the industry is headed. Matt shared his thoughts on agentic advertising and whether bots will really replace media planners, the noisy MarTech landscape that's overwhelming CMOs, and why he believes the next economic downturn could trigger massive layoffs in marketing and advertising. Throughout our conversation, Matt emphasized that while the tools and technology are evolving rapidly, the fundamentals of good marketing haven't changed. It's about understanding your customers, connecting your data, and applying that intelligence at scale. This is a conversation for anyone trying to make sense of the chaos in modern marketing, wondering how to navigate identity resolution in a post-cookie world, or just trying to figure out which AI tools are actually worth the hype._______________________________________________________Key Highlights🔌 The Infrastructure Problem: Most brands lack connected data ecosystems. Their CRM, transaction records, and marketing databases exist in silos, making it nearly impossible to achieve the precision marketing everyone's chasing.🏰 Walled Gardens Still Win: Large platforms have a scaled, dimensional view of consumers that few brands can match. The "easy button" appeal is real, but it comes at the cost of transparency and cross-platform measurement.🤖 AI Won't Replace Humans (Yet): Agentic advertising is coming and will automate significant portions of media buying, but Matt believes we'll keep humans in the loop. The idea that bots will fully control everything is overdone, at least for now.📊 Data Hygiene Still Matters: Simple things like ensuring "Matt" and "Matthew" are recognized as the same person remain real obstacles. Many organizations are still working through basic data cleaning before they can even think about advanced AI applications.📉 Layoffs Are Coming: Matt predicts the next economic downturn will trigger massive job losses in marketing and advertising as automation takes over manual tasks. New roles will emerge, but there will be a painful transition period.📈 The Measurement Mess: Between attribution debates, walled garden metrics, and inconsistent cross-platform views, CMOs are struggling to prove ROI. The complexity isn't just technical, it's political inside organizations.🎯 Outcomes Over Tactics: Despite all the noise around cookies, signal loss, and AI, the fundamentals haven't changed. Great marketing still comes down to understanding consumers holistically and applying that intelligence strategically.⚡ It's a Noisy Time: Marketers are juggling CIOs demanding new tech, CFOs questioning results, platforms promising exclusive deals, and measurement reports that don't add up. It's chaotic, but navigable with the right analytical mindset._______________________________________________________Resources & Next Steps🌐 Learn more about TransUnion Marketing Solutions🔗 Follow Matt Spiegel on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_______________________________________________________YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Intro -- Consumer insights and AI limitations00:35 The complexity of modern marketing01:00 Episode introduction and Matt Spiegel01:34 Where we are in the identity and data landscape02:15 The marketer's challenge -- Disconnected data03:45 Why data infrastructure is the core problem05:20 The reality of data hygiene issues06:30 Signal loss and privacy regulations07:45 Platform advantages in identity resolution09:10 Walled gardens vs transparency11:00 The programmatic ecosystem revisited12:40 How agencies are investing in data capabilities14:20 The measurement and attribution challenge16:00 AI's impact on marketing decisions17:30 Why consumer insights still matter18:45 The current state of MarTech noise20:15 Startup consolidation and hype cycles21:50 Will agentic advertising replace media planners?23:20 Keeping humans in the loop24:40 The coming wave of marketing layoffs26:10 New opportunities emerging from automation27:30 The complexity brands face daily28:50 CMO tenure and pressure29:40 Final thoughts and wrap-up

In this episode, I sit down with David Freeman, who just launched Kynetic Media Partners after an incredible 15-year run at CAA. David was one of the first executives I knew who truly understood the business impact of digital talent and the creator economy - back when most people in Hollywood were still asking "why do you care about that?" He walks us through his journey from starting CAA's digital department in 2010 (when they were the "redheaded stepchildren" of the agency) to today, where the creator economy is tracking toward $37 billion by 2027. Now he's building the infrastructure to turn fandom into real enterprise value.We dive deep into how tech companies have become Hollywood, the rise of mega-creators like MrBeast who are building billion-dollar businesses, and how AI is about to revolutionize content creation in ways we can barely imagine. David shares insights on creators who are successfully building mini media empires (think Dude Perfect, Rhett & Link, Jesser), the critical need for proper operators and infrastructure around talent, and why we're likely to see consolidation and big exits in the creator space. It's a masterclass in understanding where media, culture, and commerce are headed.---Key Highlights🚀 The Big Leap: After 15 years building and leading CAA's digital talent division, David left to launch Kynetic Media Partners - focused on turning fandom into enterprise value with infrastructure, strategic capital, and expertise.💡 From Stepchildren to Stars: In 2010, digital departments were "redheaded stepchildren" at agencies. Today, the creator economy is tracking toward $37 billion by 2027, and tech companies have become Hollywood.🎬 The MrBeast Phenomenon: David breaks down how Jimmy Donaldson built a billion-dollar business with deeper engagement than traditional media, and why he represents the future of entertainment.🤖 AI Revolution Ahead: The potential for AI to transform content creation is massive - from animation that rivals Pixar to community-driven development cycles that release new episodes in weeks, not years.🏢 Mini Media Empires: Creators like Dude Perfect (with their $100M investment), Rhett & Link, Dahr Mann, and Jesser are building real media companies - but success requires proper operators, not just talent.📊 Infrastructure Matters: The biggest gap in the creator economy isn't talent or fandom - it's the lack of infrastructure, operators, and strategic capital to help creators scale into sustainable businesses.🔮 Consolidation Coming: Expect to see legacy media companies acquire creator businesses, channel aggregation (like old cable models), and agencies potentially hosting their own upfronts with talent networks.🎯 Where Culture Lives: The creator space isn't just about entertainment - it's where culture is being born, and brands need to understand that talent is now distribution.---Resources & Next Steps🔗 Follow David Freeman on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts---YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Cold open - Keyman risk and YouTube dominance00:55 Episode intro - David Freeman and Kynetic Media Ventures01:24 Meet David Freeman, founder of Kynetic Media Ventures01:49 Why David left CAA after 15 years02:26 The creator economy arbitrage moment04:00 Turning fandom into enterprise value05:30 The evolution from digital talent to creator economy06:32 How tech became Hollywood07:50 YouTube vs traditional talent discovery08:30 Legacy media in the early innings of YouTube09:00 Madison Avenue grapples with YouTube's TV dominance10:20 Creators must build IP and brands11:30 Netflix vs YouTube - the talent war13:00 IShowSpeed's Speed Goes Pro - ownership over distribution14:30 Mr. Beast and the Amazon deal16:10 Amazon's creator strategy beyond Prime18:20 Making creator partnerships easier at scale20:00 CMOs admit 20-30% of spend lacks attribution21:20 The most dynamic time in media history23:20 AI hype vs AI reality25:00 AI as a tool controlled by humans26:00 The CAA Vault and name, image, likeness27:10 How many creators can become media moguls?28:20 Building teams - good operators win30:00 Will legacy media buy creator companies?31:10 The rebirth of networks and agency upfronts32:10 Wrap-up and what's next

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Kiri Masters, host of the Retail Media Breakfast Club podcast, to explore the biggest shifts happening in retail media advertising. We dive into the recent announcement about ads coming to ChatGPT and what that means for brands trying to meet consumers where they are. Kiri shares her perspective on whether AI-powered shopping will truly disrupt the retail media landscape - and why she's optimistic that LLM-based ads could actually be more relevant and less annoying than traditional formats. We also unpack the Walmart-Google partnership and discuss what it signals about the future of conversational commerce.Beyond the AI conversation, we tackle some of the industry's most pressing questions. Will we see consolidation in retail media networks this year? Can shoppable TV finally gain traction? And what happens when offsite retail media faces competition from platforms with their own transactional data? Kiri brings both historical context - including a fascinating story about Piggly Wiggly's self-service revolution - and forward-looking insights about how brands and retailers need to collaborate differently. Whether you're a marketer navigating this space or just curious about where AI and commerce intersect, this conversation offers a clear-eyed look at what's real, what's hype, and what's coming next._______________________________________________Key Highlights 🤖 Ads in AI Assistants: Kiri explains why she's optimistic that ads in LLMs like ChatGPT could actually enhance the user experience rather than detract from it - as long as they're contextually relevant and leverage the deep personal insights these platforms have.🛒 The Walmart-Google Partnership: Why retailers want to maintain control as the merchant of record even as they experiment with AI-powered shopping surfaces, and what this means for the competitive landscape between retailers and tech giants.📊 Amazon's Retail Media Dominance: How Amazon has trained brands to expect exceptional reporting and data-driven insights, creating a high bar that other retailers struggle to match - and why CFOs love the platform's transparency.🔄 Consolidation is Coming: With over 250 retail media networks globally but brands only wanting to work with 5-7 partners, Kiri predicts we'll see more partnerships like Macy's and Amazon this year as the market rationalizes.💡 The Piggly Wiggly Lesson: A fascinating historical parallel about how the first self-service grocery store in 1916 got consumers to change behavior by passing savings directly to them - a lesson for how AI shopping might need to work.⚠️ Offsite Media at Risk: If AI-powered shopping takes off, offsite retail media networks could face serious competition as LLMs gain access to transaction and intent data that retailers previously controlled.🎯 Back to Category Growth: Kiri advocates for retailers and brands to move beyond performance-focused land grabs and return to collaborative trade marketing strategies that grow entire categories together._______________________________________________Resources & Next Steps 🎙️ Follow Kiri Masters and subscribe to Retail Media Breakfast Club🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_______________________________________________Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Introduction - Ads in AI assistants00:40 This week on Next in Media01:00 Meet Kiri Masters of Retail Media Breakfast Club01:40 Ads coming to ChatGPT and conversational search02:10 How brands follow consumers to new platforms03:30 Will AI commerce disrupt retail media?04:00 Will ads in LLMs work like Google and Facebook?04:40 The importance of trust in AI assistants05:00 Why AI ads could be better than traditional ads06:00 Context and relevance in LLM advertising07:00 The trust equation in conversational AI08:00 Understanding AI ads won't necessarily suck08:10 Walmart and Google partnership announcement08:30 Are people ready to shop through AI interfaces?09:00 Building trust through repeated exposure to LLMs09:40 Story time - buying an iPod on eBay in 199911:00 Testing Instacart on ChatGPT11:40 Sao CTV ad12:40 Why Walmart partnered with Google13:20 Retailers want to remain merchant of record14:40 Can every retailer integrate with AI platforms?15:20 Consumer choice and retailer selection criteria16:00 The Piggly Wiggly story - self-service revolution17:00 Consumer behavior change requires value proposition17:40 State of retail media today18:20 Amazon's dominance in retail media19:20 Offsite retail media and in-store opportunities20:00 How AI threatens offsite retail media networks20:40 Open web and retail media advertising21:30 Competition for audience data between retailers and LLMs22:20 Could LLMs build offsite media businesses?23:10 Will we see consolidation in retail media networks?24:00 The Macy's and Amazon partnership example24:40 Shoppable TV and CTV shopping outlook26:00 How AI shopping might impact retail media26:30 Moving beyond land grabs to category growth27:20 Wrap-up and thanks

In this week's episode of Next in Media, I sat down with Ian Trombetta, SVP of Social Influencer and Content Marketing for the NFL. We dove deep into how the league is winning the creator economy by building long-term partnerships with rising stars like Kai Cenat, Sketch, and Mr. Beast. Ian shared how his team identifies talent before they blow up, creating authentic relationships that benefit both the creators and the NFL's global reach. What struck me most was how the NFL isn't just throwing money at big names - they're investing in momentum and cultural relevance, finding creators who genuinely connect with the next generation of fans.Ian also walked me through the challenges of scaling this strategy globally, the lessons learned from his time at Red Bull and Activision, and what it takes to work with YouTube on their first-ever NFL broadcast. We discussed the NFL's massive Super Bowl creator activation - with over 150 creators on the ground in San Francisco - and how they're using everything from cooking competitions to fashion shows to showcase the culture around the game. Ian's philosophy is clear: let creators be themselves, provide them with massive value and exposure, and the authentic engagement will follow. It's a masterclass in modern brand building._________________________________________________________________Key Highlights:🎯 Finding Creators Early: The NFL identifies rising talent before they explode - working with Kai Cenat for 5-6 years before he became a household name. Ian's team stays ahead of dashboards and media coverage by staying deeply connected to culture and momentum.🤝 Long-Term Relationships Over One-Offs: The NFL's strategy focuses on building sustained partnerships with creators, offering them massive exposure through linear TV, streaming platforms, and owned channels in exchange for authentic engagement with their communities.🌍 Global Creator Strategy: With international growth as a major priority, the NFL works with global creators like Mr. Beast and IShowSpeed, plus local creators in markets like Brazil and Dublin to introduce football to new audiences worldwide.🏆 Super Bowl Creator Takeover: Over 150 creators will be on the ground in San Francisco for Super Bowl week, participating in cooking competitions (NFL Season), fashion shows, and cross-promotions with NBC and the Olympics - the biggest creator activation yet.🎮 Gaming Lessons from Activision: Ian emphasized that brands underestimate the quality bar required for gaming platforms like Roblox and Fortnite - you need dedicated studios creating sustained content, not just one-time pop-ups.📺 Let Creators Be Themselves: The NFL's philosophy is to never force creators into a box. Great content comes from letting them engage their audiences authentically while naturally weaving in the NFL, not force-feeding promotional content.🚀 YouTube's First NFL Broadcast: Ian shared insights from working with YouTube on their inaugural NFL game broadcast, highlighting the collaboration between traditional sports media and digital platforms.🤖 Navigating the AI Challenge: Ian acknowledged that AI's impact on content creation is evolving daily, and staying ahead of how platforms and creators use AI is one of the biggest ongoing challenges for the league._________________________________________________________________Resources & Next Steps:🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_________________________________________________________________YouTube Chapter Timestamps:00:00 Cold open - Creator opportunities and AI evolution00:38 Episode intro and playoff season context01:02 Meet Ian Trombetta - SVP of Social Influencer and Marketing at NFL01:36 Ian's role - Social media, influencer marketing, and content creation02:52 Why the NFL needs creators beyond traditional TV04:20 Creators as entry points for casual and younger fans05:15 Global creator strategy - No borders with Mr. Beast and IShowSpeed06:30 How to find the right creators for your brand07:45 Building long-term relationships with rising creators08:40 The Kai Cenat story - 5-6 years of partnership10:12 The secret sauce - Getting in early and offering value11:30 Letting creators be themselves for authentic engagement13:05 Understanding creator momentum and culture14:20 The Sketch example - Catching viral moments early16:40 Live streamers and the endurance of daily content creation18:25 Brand partnerships and measuring ROI from organic reach20:10 Red Bull background - Building communities and content22:30 Activision lessons - Community is everything in gaming24:29 Parallels between gaming communities and NFL fandom25:23 The gaming challenge - Quality bar and sustained presence26:23 Roblox and Fortnite - You need a full studio operation27:14 Flag football, mobile games, and the Olympics opportunity27:26 Super Bowl preview - 150+ creators on the ground28:12 NFL Season cooking competition and fashion shows28:53 Cross-promotion with NBC and the Olympics29:13 Showcasing culture and music around the NFL29:27 Working with YouTube on their first NFL broadcast29:59 Biggest challenge - Navigating AI in content and platforms

I never thought I'd be running a 70-employee media company built around two guys who started making Pokemon sketches in their bedroom. But here we are. When I stepped into the role of CEO of Smosh in early 2023, I wasn't just taking on a business - I was stewarding a 20-year legacy that spans five active YouTube channels, a 15-person cast, and millions of fans worldwide. My background in talent management taught me to think about creators as brands, and that's exactly how I approach Smosh today. We're not just making content - we're building a sustainable entertainment company that respects both the comedy at our core and the business fundamentals that keep us growing.What excites me most is how we're redefining what digital-first entertainment looks like. We've invested heavily in 4K production to meet the demands of YouTube's living room experience, and we're launching ambitious projects like Hospital - a semi-scripted improv show that blends SNL-style comedy with Grey's Anatomy parody. But beyond the content itself, I'm passionate about changing how brands work with creators. Too many advertisers still treat us like we're amateurs in bedrooms, when the reality is we have the infrastructure, the talent, and the audience insights to deliver campaigns that traditional media can't match. We're proving that collaboration over competition and authenticity over scripts is the future of entertainment - and the future is happening right now. ---Key Highlights 🚀 From Talent Manager to CEO: How working with Anthony Padilla at Press Alike and 15 years in the creator economy led to becoming CEO of a 70-employee media company with five active YouTube channels and 15 cast members.📺 YouTube's Living Room Revolution: Why Smosh invested heavily in 4K production, upgraded cameras and servers, and how YouTube is slowly separating TV-viewing experiences from search engine content - with bold predictions about the platform's future.🎭 Hospital Launches in January: A groundbreaking semi-scripted improv show where cast members play doctors who must swap out when they break character - blending SNL-style comedy with Grey's Anatomy parody, designed for viewers who've never heard of Smosh.🤝 Collaboration Over Competition: Why Smosh's social team gets lunch with Mythical, their production manager grabs coffee with Dropout, and the entire creator economy thrives when digital entertainment companies share tips instead of treating each other as enemies.💰 Owning Your CMS is Power: Lessons from the MCN era about the importance of maintaining your own content management system, controlling sales processes, and working directly with Google to craft bespoke advertising deals around major programming events.📢 The Brand Partnership Problem: Why traditional TV commercials are terrible, how marketing agencies waste millions on creative that doesn't convert, and why Smosh only partners with brands they sincerely use - building authentic campaigns instead of following scripts.⏰ Treat Creators Like Studios: The frustrating reality that brands still don't understand production schedules, kill fees, or professional timelines - and why the same respect given to Fox or NBC should apply to digital-first media companies.🎯 Accessible Content Strategy: How shows like Do You Know Your Duo and Culinary Crimes are designed so new viewers can jump in without knowing Smosh's 20-year history - making great improv and comedy accessible to superfans and first-time watchers alike. ---Resources & Next Steps 🎥 Watch Smosh on YouTube🔗 Follow Alessandra Catanese on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts ---Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Introduction - Smosh's evolution from bedroom to boardroom00:38 Early days of covering Smosh at Media Week01:25 Meet Alessandra Catanese - from talent manager to CEO02:01 The Maker Studios era and YouTube economy origins03:14 15 years of experience leading to this role03:43 Working with Anthony and Ian on the vision05:37 Smosh 101 - five channels and 15 cast members07:04 Full-fledged merch business and cast-driven products07:51 Making content accessible without knowing the lore08:51 Hospital show - the January improv comedy launch09:20 SNL meets Grey's Anatomy with character breaks10:22 YouTube on TV and the living room experience11:05 Investing in 4K production for Summer Games12:10 Honoring traditional TV conventions on YouTube12:46 Predicting YouTube's TV vs search engine split14:40 Digital and traditional becoming the same thing15:26 The MCN era and owning your CMS18:07 Google's special care and bespoke deals19:14 MCN collaboration lessons and creator networks20:11 YouTube was founded on collaboration20:50 We don't have competition, we have collaborators21:36 No monopoly on the internet22:34 Growing the creator advertising economy23:48 Educating advertisers on metrics that matter24:19 Sincere representation philosophy with brands24:52 Brands need smarter creative strategies26:59 Why TV commercials are terrible today27:40 YouTube provides instant, rich data28:40 Working with newer vs legacy brands29:09 Brands still see creators as bedroom amateurs29:50 Production costs and treating creators professionally30:29 Progress in podcast ad reads and trust31:07 Wrap-up and final thoughts

I sat down with Evan Shapiro, the legendary media cartographer and author of the must-read substack Media War and Peace, to kick off 2026 with bold predictions about where our industry is heading. Evan didn't hold back as he unpacked the tension between AI-driven automation and the raw authenticity that makes creators so powerful. We explored how scale and reach are becoming vanity metrics, while fandom and engagement are what truly matter now. From Under Armor to Procter & Gamble, major brands are launching their own content channels and becoming creators themselves rather than just renting influencers. This isn't your typical brand content strategy, this is a fundamental shift in how marketing dollars flow.We also tackled the elephant in the room: YouTube's dominance and whether anyone can challenge it, the explosive growth of retail media networks like Walmart and Amazon, and why traditional media companies like Disney and Warner Brothers are finally embracing platforms they once feared. Evan predicts the AI bubble will burst in 2026, not because the technology isn't valuable, but because it won't be the sexy revolution everyone's hyping. Instead, AI will improve things behind the scenes with targeting optimization and efficiency gains. Plus, we discussed the rise of social media politicians and how $2.5 billion in political ad spending could fundamentally change addressable TV advertising. This conversation is packed with insights you won't want to miss. Key Highlights 🎯 Engagement Over Reach: Scale and reach are now vanity metrics. The biggest shift in the creator economy is toward fandom and deep engagement rather than pure subscriber counts. Mr. Beast is the exception, creators like Amelia Dimoldenberg and Sean Evans prove that smaller, highly engaged audiences drive better business results.🏢 Brands Become Creators: Under Armor, Procter & Gamble, and L'Oreal are launching their own content channels and production companies. Instead of hiring influencers, brands will convert ad spend into creating their own entertainment channels, following the Barbie and LEGO model of becoming lifestyle brands.📺 Traditional Media's Creator Problem: Disney still treats YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok as brochure ware with trailers and promotional content. In 2026, major studios will finally go all-in on real content for these platforms, similar to how they eventually launched Disney+ after years of resistance.🤖 The AI Bubble Will Burst: The hype around AI making movies, commercials, and scripts will deflate in 2026. AI's real value lies in boring but crucial improvements to targeting, optimization, and efficiency, not in replacing creative talent. Disney's $1.5 billion investment in OpenAI signals they're getting ahead of this shift.🛍️ Retail Media's Next Wave: We're in the first half of the first inning of shoppable TV. Walmart's integration of Vizio will make them the second-largest retail media network after Amazon. This enables a whole new class of TV advertisers and unlocks budgets that never intersected with traditional media spending.📱 Instagram and TikTok Launch CTV: Evan predicts both Instagram and TikTok will launch connected TV platforms in 2026. When Oracle takes control of TikTok in the US, a television product is inevitable. YouTube's success with shorts on TV proves short-form content can work on the big screen.💰 YouTube's Branded Content Explosion: Branded deals embedded in YouTube videos grew over 50% in the first half of 2025, becoming the fastest-growing segment of YouTube's ad economy. With dynamic insertion launching for branded content in 2026, this will dramatically accelerate and become more scalable.🗳️ Political Ads Transform CTV: The $2.5 billion political ecosystem will spend on hyper-local, outcome-based ads in 2026. This wave of aggressive buyers targeting at the neighborhood level will change television advertising at the genetic level and unlock the true promise of addressable TV. Resources & Next Steps 🔗 Follow Evan Shapiro on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts