#347 - Jesse Cannon: Why There’s No Money in Music Anymore

Jesse Cannon is a music marketing expert, producer, author, and educator who helps independent artists navigate the modern music industry. He hosts Musformation and is the author of Get More Fans: The DIY Guide to the New Music Business and Processing Creativity. Jesse has worked with artists including The Cure, Animal Collective, Laufey, and Weird Al Yankovic, while also building expertise in music production, artist development, podcasting, and education. Through his work, he shares practical insights on audience growth, creative careers, music marketing, and building a sustainable path forward for independent artists.In this episode, Michael Walker and Jesse Cannon explore how independent artists can build sustainable careers in a rapidly changing music industry, from growing a loyal fan base and fighting for fair compensation to navigating AI, music rights, and the future of human creativity.Key TakeawaysBuild a stronger fan base: Learn why audience growth and direct relationships with fans are increasingly important for independent artists.Understand your rights and compensation: Discover the challenges artists face around streaming, rights management, and fair compensation—and why awareness matters.Protect the human side of creativity: Explore where AI can support the creative process while understanding why emotional authenticity and human connection remain essential to music.---→ Learn more about Jesse and his work at: musicmarketingtrends.beehiiv.comBook an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

The technology changed. The strategy didn’t.Dolly Parton spent her career protecting ownership. This week, the rest of the music industry showed exactly why that matters.Sony and Warner sued Anthropic. Universal built an AI patent portfolio. All three majors bought equity in Stability AI. And session musicians went to court arguing that the AI economy is being built on work they were never compensated for.Meanwhile, one DIY artist showed another path entirely: let the audience take your music, mutate it, and help distribute it.Along the way, we ask:What would you be willing to give up for the opportunity of a lifetime?If AI learns from your work, what do you actually deserve?What happens when labels own the music and the machinery?Can contracts written before AI still protect musicians from AI?Should artists protect their music—or make it easier for fans to transform?In this episode, we explore Dolly Parton’s $150M lesson in ownership, the music industry’s legal battle with AI, major labels investing in AI, musicians fighting for compensation, the philosophy of AI and creativity, and why making art “forkable” could be the future of music.Key TakeawaysProtect future opportunities: The most valuable rights may be tied to uses that haven’t been invented yet.Learn from Dolly Parton: You can’t predict how your music may be used or transformed in the future.Think beyond today’s technology: Session musicians couldn’t anticipate AI training, and today’s artists can’t predict what their catalogs might power years from now.Own what you can: Understand what rights you’re keeping, licensing, or giving away.Make your art forkable: When it comes to your audience, giving people room to remix and build on your work can create new possibilities.---→ Book an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

Josh Simons is the CEO of Vinyl Group and founder of Vampr, a professional network for musicians and creatives with 1.6 million users across 190 countries. A former musician, songwriter, and producer, Josh has built companies across music, technology, media, and culture, raising over $50 million across his ventures. He has worked with artists including Travis Scott, Troye Sivan, and Kanye West, and has helped grow Vinyl Group through acquisitions spanning media, music technology, e-commerce, and culture.In this episode, Josh Simons shares what it takes to build a successful career in music and technology while navigating constant industry change, from the rise of digital platforms to the coming revolution in AI.Key TakeawaysTurn industry expertise into opportunity: Learn why deep domain knowledge can give entrepreneurs an edge when building products and businesses for the music industry.Adapt to constant technological change: Discover how artists can stay relevant as new platforms, technologies, and expectations continue reshaping the music business.Use AI without losing creativity: Explore how AI can become another creative tool, helping artists bridge the gap between their ideas and what they’re able to create.---→ Learn more about Josh Simons and his work at: vampr.meBook an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

The AI debate just became policy.For years, the music industry argued about whether AI music was “real music.” Now platforms, charts, publishers, and courts are starting to draw actual lines.Australia introduced a “substantially human-made” requirement for chart eligibility. Apple, Spotify, and Tidal are taking three different approaches to identifying AI music. Meanwhile, publishers are fighting Suno and Anthropic over what the music that trained these systems is actually worth.Along the way, we ask:What does “substantially human-made” actually mean?Should AI music compete on the same charts as human artists?Is creative agency more important than which tools were used?Are songwriters settling before anyone knows what AI training is really worth?What happens when machines become technically better than humans?In this episode, we explore the evolving rules around AI music, artist and songwriter rights, fan-powered remixing, new release models, and what AI and robotics mean for the future of human creativity.Key TakeawaysDon’t bet your career on AI staying bad: The technology will only keep improving.Use AI without giving up your creative agency: Keep what makes your work uniquely yours.Protect your identity and relationships: Your story, voice, and connections still matter.Build real community and human connection: As music becomes easier to generate, genuine connection may become more valuable.Bet on humans continuing to care about humans: Machines will get better, but human connection is what makes art meaningful.---→ Book an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

Eli Atkins is the co-founder of Solo.to, a leading link-in-bio platform helping creators, entrepreneurs, and brands bring their digital presence together in one customizable page. Since launching Solo.to in 2020, Eli has taken a hands-on role across product design, user experience, marketing, and day-to-day operations. With a significant portion of Solo.to’s users coming from the music community, he has developed a close understanding of the needs of independent artists and music creators. Eli brings firsthand insight into building creator-focused technology, growing a lean startup, and balancing simplicity, innovation, and user trust.In this episode, Eli Atkins reveals how Solo.to is evolving the link-in-bio experience for music creators while sharing lessons on product design, AI, and building technology users can trust.Key TakeawaysBuild a stronger digital presence: Learn how thoughtful design, customization, and simplicity can help creators turn a link-in-bio page into a more effective fan connection point.Let users drive your product: Discover how Solo.to uses feedback and user behavior to shape features, integrations, and platform improvements.Adapt to AI without losing creativity: Explore how creators can use AI for music and marketing while continuing to develop their own skills, judgment, and creative voice.---→ Learn more about Eli and his work at: solo.toBook an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

This is the week consent got delegated.This week on The Artist Economy, Michael Walker, Chris Saunders, Sol Gold, and Jared Christianson break down what happens when labels, publishers, platforms, lawmakers, and AI companies start making decisions on behalf of artists.BMG licensed more than three million songs into Suno while settling the platform's prior use. Suno launched a more powerful AI-first studio. Kobalt became the third catalog to join Spotify's coming AI remix ecosystem. And two different fights against ticket resale showed just how difficult it is for independent artists and venues to challenge the platforms between them and their fans.Along the way, we ask:Who actually gets to negotiate on behalf of artists?Is Suno evolving from an AI toy into a legitimate instrument?What happens when songs become worlds fans can remix and play inside?Who deserves the extra value when a $50 concert ticket resells for $300?What happens when AI assistants—not search engines—decide which concerts fans discover?In this episode, we break down BMG’s Suno deal, the shift from AI slop to AI musicianship, Spotify’s AI remix ecosystem, the evolving role of artists and fans, and the latest battles over ticket resale, deceptive pricing, and AI-powered concert discovery.Key TakeawaysOwn your audience: Build a direct relationship with your fans.Know your fans: Understand who they are and what they respond to.Build direct channels: Don’t rely entirely on platforms to reach your audience.Protect your leverage: Platforms, labels, and publishers can control parts of your career.Control the relationship: The more direct your connection with fans, the more independence you have.---→ Book an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

Aurelie Couble is a Canadian music producer and online educator who built a six-figure business teaching self-taught music creators how to turn their skills into real income without relying on streaming royalties or a record label. With 44K YouTube subscribers and 43K Instagram followers, both grown organically, she helps music creators land high-paying clients and build sustainable businesses through content creation, audience growth, personal branding, and organic marketing.In this episode, Michael sits down with Aurelie to explore how music creators can build profitable businesses beyond streaming through organic content, audience engagement, personal branding, and strategic client acquisition.Key TakeawaysBuild income beyond streaming by turning your music skills into a client-based business that attracts high-paying customers.Create content that converts by remixing proven ideas, sharing authentically, and consistently communicating your offer.Grow without chasing follower counts by building trust, engaging your community, and turning a small, loyal audience into sustainable income.---→ Want to take your music business to the next level?Follow @musicbyplv on Instagram and DM “READY MM” to connect with Aurelie.Book an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

What happens when the music industry starts deciding what counts as human?This week on The Artist Economy, Michael Walker, Chris Saunders, Sol Gold, and Jared Christianson explore a new phase of AI music: platforms aren't just detecting AI anymore—they're starting to label it, watermark it, restrict it, and decide how it gets distributed.Spotify is introducing badges for AI personas. Suno is embedding invisible watermarks into generated music. Licensed AI fan remixes are coming to independent catalogs. And YouTube is raising the barrier for creators to monetize.Along the way, we ask:Who gets to decide what counts as an AI artist?Could transparency eventually make human-made music more valuable?What happens when artists invite fans to remix and reinvent their songs?Are artists building another business on rented land?Should musicians even care about platform monetization—or focus on owning their audience?In this episode, we explore Spotify’s new AI Persona badge, Suno’s invisible AI watermarks, AI-powered fan remixes, platform ownership, YouTube’s monetization changes, Spotify’s 300 million Premium subscribers, Warner’s AI licensing revenue, and our first Moment Spotlight winner, Jared Rogerson.Key TakeawaysEmbrace AI: Use new tools, experiment, and let fans participate in the creative process.Protect your ownership: Don’t confuse access to platforms with ownership of your career, audience, or relationships.Keep artists at the center: Build worlds, own your relationships, and make sure the artist gets paid.---→ Book an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

Cathy Pellow is the founder of Sargent House, one of the most influential independent record labels in alternative, experimental, and heavy music. For more than two decades, she has championed innovative artists and helped them build sustainable careers while preserving their creative independence. She is also the founder of Riverwood Arts, a creative consultancy focused on artist development, leadership, and long-term career strategy. Known for her artist-first approach, Cathy brings a wealth of experience navigating the evolving music industry, from touring and contracts to community building and independent success.In this episode, Cathy Pellow breaks down how artists can build sustainable careers by embracing creativity, community, adaptability, gratitude, and a clear understanding of the business behind their music.Key TakeawaysBuild a career on your own terms by understanding that success doesn't require following the traditional major-label path.Protect your future as an artist by understanding your rights, the economics of deals, and why desperation can lead to costly decisions.Create sustainable momentum by focusing on community, kindness, creativity, and positivity instead of getting trapped by negativity or self-pity.---→ Learn more about Cathy Pellow and her work at: https://riverwoodarts.com/→ Learn more about Fabiana and her work at Musicians Creating Prosperity here: https://musicianscreatingprosperity.com/Book an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass

The AI fight is moving from permission to money.This week on The Artist Economy, Michael Walker, Chris Saunders, Sol Gold, and Jared Christianson break down what happens once AI companies, labels, artists, and musicians stop arguing about whether AI can use music—and start arguing about who gets paid.We look at Universal testing paid-only release windows, musicians challenging labels over AI licensing revenue, Germany moving faster on Suno regulation, Universal’s massive quarterly revenue, and why so many independent songwriters are still leaving royalties unclaimed.Along the way, we ask:Should artists optimize releases for reach or intent?If labels get paid by AI companies, how much should performers receive?Can Europe set the rules for AI music before the U.S. does?Should independent artists try to compete with superstar economics at all?How much money are artists missing simply because they never registered their publishing?In this episode, we expore how major-label strategies, AI lawsuits, and evolving licensing rules are reshaping the music industry—and what these changes mean for independent artists. It also covers overlooked royalty opportunities, why artists should build their own lane, and the debut of The Final Five, featuring real submissions from the StreetTeam community.Key TakeawaysOwn your relationships: Build direct connections with your fans and audience.Know your rights: Understand what you own and what you’re entitled to.Collect the money you’re already owed: Don’t leave royalties or revenue on the table.Don’t play the majors’ game: You don’t have to compete on their terms.Build your own lane: Create a career and business model that works for you.---→ Book an Artist Breakthrough Session with the Modern Musician team: https://streetteam.fm/masterclass