Episode 167: How Infillion Bought Catalina and How it Fits with MediaMath

This week, Ari Paparo sits down with Andrew Casale, CEO of Index Exchange, for a detailed look at the company’s latest push into cloud containerization. The discussion explores how deploying DSPs and data applications directly inside Index’s cloud infrastructure could reframe economic and technical dynamics across programmatic advertising. Key themes include maturing industry standards (ARTF), how the move impacts privacy, data security, and efficiency, and the wider implications for buyers and partners. Ari and Andrew break down technical trade-offs, the economic upside, and what shifting core infrastructure into exchange clouds could mean for the future of bidding, measurement, and AI-driven performance. The episode also delivers a recap of the Possible event and analyzes current trends: ad tech consolidation, the expanding footprint of CTV and commerce media, identity solution shifts, and ongoing investment in AI and cloud from major platforms. If you want a practical take on current ad tech developments and where things are headed, this conversation is worth your time. Guests: Ari Paparo, Andrew Casale Chapters 00:00 Possible event recap and industry themes 02:00 Ad tech maturity and consolidation trends 05:00 AI, measurement, and optimism in the market 07:10 Episode format and upcoming interview preview 10:28 Big Tech earnings overview begins 10:43 Meta performance and AI driven growth 15:44 Google, Microsoft, and Amazon cloud surge 18:28 Key announcements from Possible 18:58 Pinterest data expands into CTV 19:54 PayPal launches deterministic Ad ID 21:12 TTD and commerce media integrations 23:03 Walmart pushes into CTV and SMB market 24:19 Magnite introduces agentic AI tools 26:03 HighTouch funding and CDP evolution 27:53 Universal Commerce Protocol adoption 29:45 Interview with Andrew Casale begins 30:47 Index Exchange containerization explained 33:16 Cost and speed advantages of edge compute 35:16 Agentic frameworks and future potential 39:03 DSP orchestration challenges 41:11 Privacy and data control benefits 44:29 Future of bidding and exchange infrastructure Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At Possible in Miami, Ari Paparo sits down with Mike Fogarty, Head of Client Development, Brand & Agency Partnerships at Tatari, for a fast-moving conversation on how TV advertising is being rewritten in real time. They dig into the shift from legacy metrics like reach and frequency toward outcome-driven measurement, unpack the evolving balance between programmatic and direct buying, and explore why “convergent TV” is becoming less of a buzzword and more of an operating system. Along the way, they touch on everything from pause ads and shoppable formats to AI-powered media planning and the future of linear in a streaming-first world. If you’re thinking about how brands actually drive results across modern TV, this one delivers clarity without the fluff. Takeaways TV measurement is shifting from GRPs and reach toward real business outcomes. Advertisers are demanding clearer proof of performance across linear and streaming. Convergent TV is becoming a unified way to plan, buy, and measure across channels. Programmatic CTV still has limitations compared to direct buying. Not all inventory is equally accessible or measurable in automated systems. Live sports and major events remain critical for scale and attention. New ad formats like pause ads and shoppable units are expanding creative options. AI is starting to influence both creative production and media planning. Adoption of AI varies, with some teams moving faster than others. Data and automation are improving how campaigns are executed and optimized. Linear TV continues to play a role alongside streaming platforms. The industry is still working through how to standardize measurement across environments. Chapters 00:00 Welcome & Possible Conference Vibes 00:48 The Shift in TV: From GRPs to Outcomes 01:27 What “Outcomes” Really Mean 02:21 Measurement Challenges & Testing Methods 03:06 Buildable vs. Non-Biddable Inventory Explained 04:43 The Reality of Programmatic CTV 05:20 Sports & Tentpole Events 06:00 Interactive TV Ads & Creative Innovation 07:15 AI in Creative Production 08:08 AI in Media Planning & Buying 09:25 How Brands & Agencies Are Adopting AI 10:31 AI in Execution & Buying Intelligence 11:05 The Future of Convergent TV 12:12 Closing Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At Marketecture Live, Peter Birsinger, Founder & CEO, Podscribe, with Matthew Drengler, Head of Partnerships, Podscribe, breaks down the current state of audio measurement and what the data really shows about podcast and streaming performance. From conversion benchmarks to ad formats and incrementality, this session reveals how brands can measure, optimize, and scale audio advertising like any other digital channel. Takeaways Audio is fully measurable today with real-time dashboards, attribution, and incrementality Podcast ads often outperform streaming audio in conversion efficiency Host-read ads deliver stronger performance and lower acquisition costs Buying individual shows drives better engagement, but programmatic can balance cost Earlier ad placement in episodes leads to higher conversion rates Longer ads tend to perform better due to storytelling and host trust Frequency caps are critical to avoid diminishing returns Incrementality is key to understanding true performance beyond attribution Chapters 00:00 Introduction to audio measurement and Podscribe 01:03 Audio is now a fully measurable digital channel 04:12 Podcast industry growth and market opportunity 06:19 Benchmark data on conversion rates and performance 08:14 Why host-read ads perform best 09:20 Single show vs. programmatic buying strategies 11:13 Best ad placement within podcast episodes 12:46 Why longer ads drive better results 15:04 Frequency caps and diminishing returns 17:10 Attribution vs. incrementality explained 20:25 Audience reach and overlap in audio channels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jonathan Carson, Co-founder and CEO of Antenna, discusses how measurement in streaming is evolving and why it remains inconsistent across platforms. With experience from Nielsen, The Trade Desk, and Vevo, he shares how subscription data, signups, and shifting viewing behavior are influencing how performance is tracked today. The conversation looks at the gap between traditional measurement approaches and the current streaming landscape.  Takeaways The shift from linear TV to streaming is complex and requires measuring both systems at the same time Measurement challenges are driven more by industry transition than by any single company’s failure Nielsen’s role is evolving, but legacy pressures make rapid change difficult Subscription, churn, and content engagement data are becoming increasingly important signals Programming plays a major role in driving signups and cancellations across streaming platforms The future of measurement will involve multiple providers rather than a single standard Data’s role in CTV is significantly larger than it was in traditional linear TV Sports and live content are accelerating the need for better streaming measurement Ad-supported streaming tiers are growing quickly and changing how inventory is sold Measurement is expanding beyond audience reach into performance, retention, and content impact Chapters 00:02 Introduction to Jonathan Carson and streaming measurement 03:26 The state of chaos in streaming measurement 06:56 What Nielsen’s Gauge is and why it matters 09:44 Alternative currencies and the post-Nielsen measurement push 12:32 What Antenna does and its subscriber measurement model 13:30 Subscriber Views and content-driven churn 14:52 Netflix ad-plan growth and show-based CTV buying 16:15 The future: multiple measurement providers 17:41 Podcasting, YouTube, and measurement fragmentation 19:08 Sports rights and streaming measurement pressure 20:41 Paramount, UFC, and subscriber retention 22:01 News refresh: platforms, AI, and people moves 22:20 Index Cloud and SSP-side compute 26:12 Unity data through Index curated marketplaces 27:06 The Trade Desk launches Kokai Agents 29:49 TTD replaces the periodic table UI 30:35 Claude Design and AI-generated collateral 33:14 ChatGPT ad pricing shifts to CPC and lower CPMs 34:19 Kevin Weil leaves OpenAI 34:42 Magnite executive departures 35:55 Fluency hires Eric Picard 36:20 Netflix ad revenue and programmatic growth 37:24 Ari’s Beeswax SSP integration dilemma 38:28 Closing and where to find Jonathan Carson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mike Lane, CEO of Fluency, explains how automation and AI are transforming digital ad execution at scale. Learn how brands and agencies save time, reduce errors, and scale campaigns across channels. Takeaways Fluency positions itself as a digital advertising operating system, automating the full execution layer of campaigns. The platform eliminates manual ad ops work, saving up to 92% of time and clicks through automation. It enables massive-scale execution, such as launching hundreds of TikTok accounts instantly instead of taking years to do manually. Brands and agencies use Fluency to do more with constrained budgets and limited headcount. AI (via Muse) enhances workflows with automated reporting, insights, and even video summaries for clients. The platform supports rule-based automation, allowing campaigns to react dynamically to data like weather, inventory, or occupancy. Cross-channel execution is unified, helping teams manage budgets and performance across platforms in one system. Media companies use Fluency to scale advertising services for small businesses efficiently through automation and AI-generated creative. AI is lowering creative costs dramatically, making high-quality ads accessible even to small advertisers. The biggest market challenge today is AI confusion and decision paralysis among businesses. Chapters 00:10 Intro & Guest Welcome 00:22 What is Fluency? 00:54 Digital Advertising Operating System Explained 01:46 Who Uses Fluency? (Brands vs Agencies) 04:08 Real Example: Launching TikTok at Scale 05:34 Smart Automation & Data-Driven Campaign Logic 05:49 AI vs Automation in Ad Ops 07:08 Introducing Muse AI 08:18 Automated Reporting & AI-Generated Video Summaries 09:14 Cross-Channel Advertising Challenges 10:29 Sell-Side & Media Company Use Cases 12:07 AI’s Impact on Creative Production Costs 13:29 Vision: Scaling to $100B in Ad Spend 15:30 Biggest Market Challenge: AI Overload 15:56 Competitive Advantage & Ecosystem Role 16:46 Lightning Round & Fun Close Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joe Ligé, Founder & CEO, Culture Hive Media Group, explains why culture, not identity, drives performance in advertising. We break down cultural targeting, AI-powered ad relevance, and how brands can avoid “cringe” marketing moments. Plus: Meta vs. Google ad revenue, OpenAI’s ad future, and Viant’s latest acquisition strategy. Takeaways Culture Demographics Bad ads come from cultural blind spots Cultural relevance can be measured Brands should focus on rituals, communities, and moments Programmatic is shifting from “who” to “where.” Authenticity beats proximity Meta’s growth is accelerating OpenAI ads are coming Chapters 00:00 Intro + Ari’s tech meltdown 00:45 Guest intro Joe Ligé Culture Hive Media Group 02:03 What is Culture Hive Media Group 03:17 Origin story behind the culture, first advertising 05:42 Culture vs ethnicity explained 07:59 Rethinking targeting beyond demographics 08:46 Cultural cornerstones, rituals, communities, moments 09:56 How the Cultural Relevancy Score CRS works 12:22 Using AI to detect bias and bad ads 15:24 Authenticity vs cringe marketing 16:42 Case study Mountain Dew and gaming culture 19:01 How the tech and programmatic integration works 21:21 Culture first strategy and audience expansion 25:04 News Meta vs Google OpenAI ads Viant deal 49:32 Wrap up Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At Marketecture Live III in New York City, Mario Diez, Chief Executive Officer, Peer39, and David Nyurenberg, SVP of Digital, InterMedia Advertising, broke down the biggest challenge in CTV today: the lack of signal transparency. They explored how missing or inconsistent data in the bidstream leads to inefficient buying, commoditized inventory, and limited optimization. Backed by real research and case studies, the conversation highlights why richer signals, better supply paths, and industry-wide transparency are critical to unlocking CTV’s full performance potential. Takeaways 60% of CTV inventory is blind, lacking usable signals for buyers Without signals, algorithms cannot optimize effectively Completion rates can be misleading without content-level context Signal transparency enables better performance even at higher CPMs Supply path optimization should prioritize signal quality, not just cost Publishers can increase value by sharing more data, not less Lack of transparency leads to commoditization of premium inventory. Industry-wide collaboration is needed to improve signal standards Chapters 00:00 Introduction to CTV signal challenges and transparency 01:19 How CTV evolved from linear but lost signal clarity 02:29 Why buyers struggle without content-level data 04:44 Research reveals 60% of CTV inventory is blind 06:01 Example: the same content appears differently across platforms 07:05 Supply path optimization and signal quality 10:14 Why completion rate is a misleading metric 11:10 Impact of UGC and misclassified content on campaigns 12:05 Why transparency is key to performance CTV 13:12 Case study: Full transparency drives better results 14:26 Improvements in program-level signals across the market 15:38 Challenges in valuing premium content like sports 17:22 Transparency as a choice for buyers and publishers 18:16 Industry barriers, including outdated privacy laws 20:40 What buyers and publishers can do moving forward Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

John Hoctor, CEO of Newton Research, joins Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi to break down how AI agents are reshaping marketing analytics. From automating complex workflows to enabling faster experimentation, the conversation explores what “agent-native” really means and how brands can move beyond basic AI usage. Takeaways AI agents act like junior data scientists, automating complex analytics workflows. Consistency and methodology matter more than raw AI capability in enterprise use. Most companies still underutilize their data despite having access to it. Incrementality testing becomes more scalable when automation removes setup friction. The future isn’t just AI tools—it’s structured, repeatable workflows built around them. Chapters 00:00 Intro & Guest (John Hoctor, Newton Research) 01:06 Ari’s CBS Sunday Morning Appearance 02:32 Podcast Updates & Website Move 04:06 What is Newton Research? 06:49 Early AI Agents & ReAct Framework 09:54 How the Agents Work (Architecture) 11:43 Training Agents Like Data Scientists 14:40 Workflows vs Prompting (Execution) 16:38 Incrementality & Automated Testing 19:07 Causal Models & Advanced Analytics 23:12 Advice for Marketers Using AI 28:03 News Segment Begins (TBP / OpenAI Deal) 34:59 Mediaocean + Agentic Buying Discussion 38:18 MiQ Growth & Publicis + Microsoft Deal 44:59 Meta AI, Claude Mythos & Closing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Neil Vogel, Chief Executive Officer, People Inc., and Mark Stenberg, Senior Media Reporter, ADWEEK, share how modern publishers can survive and thrive amid declining search traffic and the rise of AI. From diversifying revenue streams to building durable brands, Neil breaks down the strategies that helped People Inc. achieve consistent growth despite industry disruption. Takeaways Strong brands are the most valuable asset in media today Relying on a single platform like Google is risky Diversification across platforms and revenue streams is essential Direct relationships with audiences and advertisers drive durability AI licensing is becoming a major revenue opportunity Media success requires constant adaptation, not entitlement Growth comes from scaling new channels while managing legacy ones Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the AI era challenges in publishing 01:52 The origin of People Inc.’s strategy and acquisitions 03:45 The “Google Zero” mindset and early adaptation 05:52 Shifting from search reliance to diversified channels 06:45 Balancing declining web traffic with new growth areas 08:38 Why constant change is normal in media 09:20 AI licensing deals and new revenue models 10:05 Types of AI content licensing agreements explained 12:14 Why publishers must demand fair compensation from AI 13:24 The challenge of negotiating with Google 15:48 Why only strong brands will survive long term 16:42 Focusing on top-performing brands in a portfolio 18:40 The limits of service-based publishing brands 20:06 The importance of diversification in audience and revenue 21:13 Final thoughts on building a resilient media business Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rob Emrich, Founder and Executive Chairman of Infillion, joins to talk about the Catalina acquisition, why retail data matters, and how his company is building a full-stack ad tech platform through acquisitions and integration. The conversation touches on DSP strategy, data advantages, and how the industry is shifting toward outcomes-driven advertising. Takeaways Catalina evolved from coupon printing into a powerful retail data asset SKU-level purchase data is a key differentiator in advertising Infillion’s strategy is to integrate data, media, and tech into one platform DSPs are increasingly defined by proprietary data and a unique supply Acquisition strategy matters more than just collecting assets Retail media is a continuation of older data-driven advertising models Financial vs strategic ownership can shape how companies evolve Chapters 00:00 Intro & Guest Tease 01:20 April Fool’s Day Banter 04:15 Guest Introduction Rob Emrich 05:36 Catalina Acquisition Explained 07:09 Evolution from Coupons to Data Business 09:06 SKU Level Data & Its Value 11:14 How the Deal Happened 13:46 Infilion Strategy DSP and Data 15:35 Rob’s Background & Company Origins 19:46 Acquisition Strategy 22:18 The Factory Model of Ad Tech 26:05 Customer Profile & Verticals 31:07 Amazon Ads Tops Forrester Wave 38:47 New DSP Tools & Market Expansion 44:27 OpenAI Massive Fundraise Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices