482: Leading with Outcomes with Amy Michalski and Shelly Strickland of AIIM

Many learning businesses are data-rich and insight-poor. It’s easy to track what’s easy to count—e-mail opens, registrations, completions—but harder to know if the products are doing what they were created to do.In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele discuss what learning businesses should be measuring and why. They identify the most common metric traps—including surrogation and vanity metrics—and introduce a five-lens framework for thinking about which metrics matter at which stage of a product’s lifecycle: Validate, Reach & Convert, Engage, Retain & Reactivate, and Prove Impact. They also make the case that a metric without a target is just a number and that the most valuable feedback often comes not from dashboards but from conversations with learners and employers.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode486.

Many learning businesses evaluate their programs with data that only tells them what already happened. By the time a lagging indicator like a completion rate reveals that a learner is struggling, the window to help has often closed. The good news is that shifting to real-time and predictive analytics is readily achievable for most learning businesses.In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Steven Khraiss, who heads data strategy and analytics at Holmes Corporation, about the ideas behind the e-book The Association Leader's Guide: How to Turn Learning Data into Personalized Member Experiences. Steven explains what an engagement score is and what it enables, why there’s no mention of AI in the e-book even though it’s powering a lot under the hood, and why he names culture, not technology, as the harder challenge in becoming data-driven. He also offers a practical first step for any learning business leader who wants to start but doesn't know how: Start with one question you wish you could answer.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode485.

The association sector is at a genuine inflection point because so much is changing at once. AI is reshaping entire professions. Federal funding is in flux. University pipelines are shrinking. And, in the middle of all of it, associations have an extraordinary opportunity to play a critical role in workforce development—if they’re willing to move fast enough.In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Jeff Cobb talks with Artesha Moore, CEO of Association Forum, about what that opportunity looks like and what it will take to seize it. Artesha shares why mission-led thinking matters more than member surveys at this moment, how associations can close the visibility gap with employers, and why the leaders most likely to succeed will be the ones willing to imagine broadly and fail productively.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode484.

The credentialing landscape is changing fast. With 1.8 million credentials now in the U.S. marketplace and AI reshaping entire professions, organizations need to understand not just what credentials to offer but how the meaning of competence is evolving.In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Denise Roosendaal, executive director of the Institute for Credentialing Excellence (I.C.E.). Denise shares how assessment is moving from point-in-time tests toward ongoing, real-world evidence of competence, why the most important skills of the future may be the uniquely human ones, and what it takes to build a culture of foresight that helps credentialing bodies and learning businesses get ahead of what’s coming.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode483.

Many learning businesses market what they offer. The ones that get better results market what their learners need.In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Amy Michalski and Shelly Strickland, who handle business development and marketing at the Association for Intelligent Information Management (AIIM). They share what moves the needle in marketing education offerings—from how they segment and nurture prospective learners to what they've learned about conversion, measurement, and the difference between reach and genuine engagement.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode482.

When everyone has access to the same powerful tools and technologies, polished content becomes table stakes, and learning businesses that compete primarily on content will find it increasingly hard to stand out. So what do you compete on instead?In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Jeff Cobb talks with Panos Siozos, CEO of LearnWorlds. They discuss why engagement remains the core unsolved challenge in digital learning, how we’re moving from a content economy to a trust economy, and what role AI should and shouldn’t play in a learning business. The conversation also covers the shift from courses to learning ecosystems and what business model innovation might look like in the years to come.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode481.

Learning is, at its root, a neurobiological process. But most workplace learning doesn’t recognize that reality.In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Dr. Tessa Forshaw, cognitive scientist and faculty member at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she studies how people work, learn, and create in the flow of their work. They discuss five principles grounded in learning science and what each means for how learning experiences should be designed. The conversation also explores the specific advantages external learning businesses have when applying these principles and why making space for metacognition may be the single most impactful thing you can do to improve your programs.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode480.

Many organizations say they are mission-driven. But mission drift is real and often happens because of the very structures and activities organizations have been told represent best practices. So what does it take to build an organization that stays true to what it set out to do?In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Jeff Cobb talks with Eric Ries, entrepreneur and author of the books The Lean Startup and Incorruptible. They discuss how Incorruptible builds on the lean startup thinking Eric is known for, why the for-profit versus nonprofit distinction matters less than most assume, and how a four-part governance framework—built around compliance, purpose, coherence, and integrity—can help any organization stay aligned with its mission.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode479.

It can be frustrating when your marketing doesn’t convert the way you expect. You put in the time to craft messages that you feel are clear, compelling, and persuasive—and still prospective learners don’t act. Part of the challenge is that people don’t make decisions the way we think they do.In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Nancy Harhut, author of Using Behavioral Science in Marketing. Listen in for practical takeaways in three areas: understanding what drives learner decisions, crafting messages that prompt action, and increasing engagement and follow-through once learners enroll.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode478.

Learning businesses are operating in an environment that feels more demanding, more uncertain, and harder to parse than ever. It’s natural to rely on familiar instincts—gather more data, add new offerings, work harder. But those instincts are sometimes counterproductive.In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Celisa Steele and Jeff Cobb explore what learning business leaders may need to stop doing. Against the backdrop of BANI, they examine common habits—like optimizing for efficiency and pursuing certainty—that can increase fragility and limit impact. They also offer a set of reflective questions to help leaders make more intentional decisions and create space for resilience, more nuanced judgment, and meaningful progress towards the most important goals.Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode477.