How Marketers Can Build a Culture of Data and Experimentation

What happens when marketing truly takes the driver's seat with data and insights? In this episode, we hear from Jenn Chase, Chief Marketing Officer and Executive Vice President at SAS, a company that operates with a data-first culture. Translating Data into Meaningful Insights Jenn explains what insights SAS focuses on from a marketing perspective and how that helps her team and other departments work together to drive results. She talks about the different types of surveys and brand studies that SAS conducts to collect data both internally and externally, plus the impact that has on working toward business goals. For SAS, it’s clear that data is embedded in its culture, but for that data to be useful, it needs context. Jenn’s team makes an effort to translate that data into insights that matter for different departments, including sales and finance.  Jenn also shares some examples of clients SAS works with and how they have transformed how they use data to enhance the customer experience with personalization. In a cookie-less world, brands need to think outside the box when it comes to collecting data, but Jenn shares some top tips for companies to get started. In This Episode: 1:30 - The vision that Jenn adopted when taking on her role at SAS 2:45 - The insights that SAS’s marketing team provides the rest of the company 5:42 - How Jenn encourages her team to drive value of marketing across the organization 7:44 - The art to connecting the dots across the organization on ROI 9:36 - How Jen builds strong relationships with other teams 11:43 - The importance of marketing, sales, and finance learning each other’s languages 13:48 - How SAS uses data to help clients better serve customers 16:08 - Jenn shares an example of a beauty retailer who transformed their data strategy 19:05 - Why we’ll see the evolution of commercial industries thanks to better data management 19:56 - How SAS is helping sports organizations with data   21:32 - Helping clients take a customer-driven approach with data 22:48 - How brands can get ahead in a cookie-less future 24:50 - Why brand personas are crucial 28:02 - Advice for organizations who are beginning to use data   31:19 - Why we need to democratize data 35:45 - How SAS strikes the balance between being data-driven and human-centric decision-making   Quotes: “From a B2B perspective, we understand that we need to meet our buyer, not just as their work persona, but recognize that they live in a broader world, and you can reach them in a more personal way.” “Start with the end in mind. What are the questions that you want to be able to answer about your customers that you can't today? Really paint a vision for what the end state could look like and how it can have business impact." “It’s imperative we know not only the demographics but also the psychographics of those personas so that you understand what's motivating them and then making sure that that information is fed into a creative brief so that all of the content that you create downstream as part of an integrated campaign is based on what that persona wants.” Resources: Connect with Jenn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennchase/ SAS: https://www.sas.com/en_gb/home.html Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.

Data is being used more and more to help businesses make the best decisions, in part thanks to the greater selection of tools available to capture it. But what if you struggle to access that first-party data? And what can you do with data once you do have it?  A Balanced Approach to Data-Driven Decisions In this episode of Data-Driven Decisions, we sit down with Rand Fishkin, Co-Founder and CEO of SparkToro, an audience research tool that helps organizations understand their audiences better. Rand explains how SparkToro helps businesses learn about and target their audiences, and shares examples of users who have seen success with the platform.  We hear his thoughts on common mistakes marketing teams make, such as relying too much on Google and Meta ads, and why sometimes more unconventional marketing can achieve better results. Rand also shares his balanced take on the use of data to drive decision-making. While data can be a great guide, there are certain blind spots that the data can’t tell you about. Rand recommends a more balanced approach to data usage and supplementing data-driven insights with experimentation, intuition, and direct customer conversations to really get to know your customers.  In This Episode: 0:27 - How SparkToro works 3:11 - Why marketing is too focused on Google and Meta ads 4:20 - What companies typically underinvest in 6:57 - Examples of how clients use SparkToro 12:49 - The problem with focusing on channels and tactics rather than the audience 14:46 - How uncommon tactics are inexpensive (and sometimes more effective) compared to ads 16:31 - How a brand used Reddit in a unique way 19:15 - Zero click marketing tactics that help customers know, like, and trust you 20:45 - Are pre/post-purchase surveys misleading? 25:54 - Why Rand prefers to look at correlation not causation 27:05 - How Rand’s relationship with data evolved from Moz to SparkToro 29:17 - Why it’s harder to prove the value of tactics today 31:23 - The problem with attributing value to search engines 34:07 - Advice for organizations embarking on their data-driven journey 35:47 - Rand’s take on why data doesn’t tell the full story 39:18 - How to recognize what data can and can’t solve  Quotes: “One of the big frustrations that I have is that marketing has gotten more and more Google and Facebook advertising shaped... SparkToro is trying to show you where your audience actually spends time.” “I think it pays to be responsible in your recognition of what problems data can solve and what it can't solve. It's not always the case, in my opinion, that every culture needs to be more data-driven." “I'm always shocked at how much I learn when I spend a bunch of time talking to customers or watching interviews.” Resources: Connect with Rand on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/ SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com/ Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.

How did this non-marketing but data-driven leader become a Chief Marketing Officer? Shafqat Islam, the CMO of Optimizely, may have had an unconventional introduction to marketing, but he brought a wealth of insights on the power of data to his role. Hear how he’s leading Optimizely’s marketing team into building a culture of data and experimentation. Let the Data Do the Talking In this episode of Data-Driven Decisions, we dive deep into the world of marketing data, measurable targets, personalization, and customer-centric marketing. Shafqat shares invaluable insights on how to approach personalization strategically, emphasizing the value of starting simple and scaling up gradually. He discusses the challenges of content creation for personalized experiences and offers practical advice on leveraging AI to find patterns in customer feedback from support tickets and sales calls. We also explore the critical role of experimentation and testing when it comes to new marketing ideas, and why Optimizely considers experimentation part of its culture. Shafqat explains why it’s so important for marketers to have a rock-solid understanding of the typical customer journey and why this should be documented and measurable. In This Episode: 0:37 - How Shafqat ended up in his role 2:36 - Why Shafqat wanted to build a more data-driven culture 4:58 - How this approach affects the marketing team 7:07 - The importance of experimenting with new ideas 8:28 - Optimizely’s approach to experimentation 12:33 - Why personalization is still a huge topic for marketers 15:22 - Finding a balanced and realistic idea of personalization 18:20 - How Optimizely helps its clients use their own data to make decisions 20:54 - Why all marketers need to map out the typical customer journey and document it 24:25 - How to ensure customers get the right resources 27:09 - How Shafqat researches and understands his customers 30:14 - The most important marketing metrics 31:56 - How Optimizely uses AI to find patterns in customer interactions   Quotes: “Marketing is as much about the customer as it is about the prospect. In fact, in the business of our scale, it may be more customer than even prospect.” “It's really, really important to document the customer journey and understand all the touchpoints and then come up collectively as a marketing organization, with what we want that ideal journey to be." “Experimentation is much more than tools. To me, the idea is how do we create a culture of experimentation?” Resources: Connect with Shafqat on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shafqat/ Optimizely: https://www.optimizely.com/  Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.

How can marketers tell when customers are ready to buy? Data collected in the right ways can uncover insights that marketers need to nurture buyers throughout the entire customer journey. Joining this episode is David Fortino, the Chief Strategy Officer at NetLine, who shares lots of valuable insights on the world of buyer intent data and how data can help us truly understand our customers. What the Data Tells Us about Customer Decisions A common theme throughout this conversation is that collecting data alone is not enough. Using it to create actionable insights and democratizing it across teams are both crucial to making the best decisions possible for your strategy. David explains how marketers can better understand who is in the market, when they’re ready to buy, and why it’s important to move beyond generalized account-level data and look at individual buyers. By leveraging individual buyer intent data, companies can gain insights into individual pain points, research patterns, and content consumption across various platforms. David talks about the importance of breaking down data silos within organizations and democratizing access to customer data to empower teams across sales and marketing. He also shares advice for teams on building a culture of curiosity and data-driven decision-making to identify potential customers and improve customer lifetime value through better-targeted messaging. Tune in for more insights on customer intent data, the use of AI, data privacy, and more. In This Episode: 2:00 - How marketers can understand who’s in market now with buyer intent data 5:31 - How marketers can address customer lifetime experience 9:45 - Customer expectations on personalization and customer history 12:20 - How democratizing data can help us be more proactive with customers 17:17 - How organizations can build and deliver on a culture of data 21:12 - The importance of understanding what your customer cares about 26:26 - How NetLine works with publishers 30:00 - Finding a balance between privacy and personalization 33:42 - Why marketers need to provide equitable value 34:58 - Insights from the 2024 State of B2B Content Consumption and Demand Report 38:10 - The benefits of using data to enhance the customer experience 42:07 - How AI can help marketers unearth unique insights     Quotes: “Data needs to be distributed and democratized across the full team, with real-time alerts and transparency and dashboards.” “Culture has to start with leadership. It can't be something that is just lip service. It has to be followed through. And that means you need to arm people with the tools that allow them to act beyond just a fundamental curiosity in the morning, and then they move on." “There are countless sites, offline events, and so on, all speaking to what you do either directly and or in an adjacent manner, educating your future buyers. So you need access to those data sets that allow you to understand where they are at, what they are thinking about, and what they are consuming.” Resources: Connect with David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidfortino/ NetLine: https://www.netline.com/ Download the 2024 State of B2B Content Consumption and Demand Report: https://www.netline.com/netline002n/?d=glconsumption24&k=240401nlwccr/ Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.

How can data help marketing and sales teams achieve their goals? A common mistake some marketers make is not being clear on those goals in the first place. This can lead to marketers and sales teams trying out lots of different tactics in an effort to drive results. But there is a smarter way – using data to build a goal-oriented mindset from the get-go. Start with Marketing Goals, Not Tactics In this episode, Tessa Barron, Senior Vice President of Marketing at ON24, talks about why marketers should shift their focus from traditional marketing tactics to a goal-oriented approach. Tessa explains how marketers often fall into the trap of continuously using new tactics without clear objectives and how harnessing the right data can transform a strategy. Tessa discusses the importance of identifying key signals that indicate buyer readiness, using webinars and events to gather valuable first-party data and using that to create actionable insights that align marketing with sales. We also hear Tessa explain why marketers should create scorecards, identify the metrics that matter most, and improve conversion rates by leaning on data to drive decision-making.  In This Episode: 1:54 – A shift to goal-oriented marketing 6:22 – Leveraging webinars and other tactics for collecting customer data 11:11 – The importance of asking customers the right questions and using those answers 14:41 – Aligning marketing and sales to achieve conversion goals 18:58 – Testing, iterating, and improving conversion rates 26:49 – Why pipeline is a “lagging indicator” 31:32 – Why brand awareness is a leading indicator 33:51 – Using metrics that matter  Quotes: “Starting with the goal first, and then the last step is determining the tactic that can really help marketers make the shift.” “What aspect about a buyer makes them more likely to convert to an opportunity than not? By knowing that, you can start to set traps. You can start to create different interactions that will help uncover that.” “There is no database on the planet, no third-party resource that can give you that kind of qualitative information that really makes a difference when we talk about improving conversion rates to pipeline and ultimately revenue.”  Resources: Connect with Tessa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tessa-barron/   Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.  

How can organizations drive real impact with data? Many organizations already have plenty of data at their fingertips these days, but it’s not just about the data you collect. It’s how you use it. Joining this episode is Anthony Coppedge, the Principal Lead of eCommerce Seller Initiatives at IBM, who takes us through his methodologies for using data to make a difference in an organization. Organizations Don’t Lack Data, They Lack Insights  Anthony leads business agility aims across sales, marketing, and product at IBM. But how does such a large organization manage and implement data insights to grow effectively? We hear Anthony’s insightful approach to capturing and acting on qualitative feedback with the ‘Retrospective Radar’ approach. With AI such an important topic for many organizations, Anthony also takes us through how he uses the Watson Natural Language Processing tool to analyze unstructured data to create actionable insights. Anthony explains why having a clear north star in your organization is paramount and how his ‘Outcome-Drive Alignment’ model helps different teams come together with shared objectives to make smart, data-driven decisions.  In This Episode: 1:51 - How IBM manages to drive impact with data 4:09 - Why data is often underutilized 6:30 - How data can identify challenges and misalignments in a team 14:00 - How the ‘Retrospective Radar’ works 20:41 - How IBM pulls the right insights from qualitative feedback 28:46 - How businesses can use feedback to empower team members 33:15 - How AI can help you gather insights from unstructured data 39:05 - Changing people’s minds with good data Quotes: “Everybody knows what it's like to be swimming in data. What you need to be swimming in is insight.” “Qualitative feedback is a type of data. So if you get feedback in a survey or a poll or a thumbs up or a thumbs down or verbatim text, all of that is a type of data. It's unstructured data, but it's data. And what we want to do is parse that data and understand it in a quantitative way.”   “Feedback is a gift, but aggregated feedback is actionable intelligence.” Resources: Connect with Anthony on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonycoppedge/ Watson Natural Language Processing Demo: https://www.ibm.com/demos/live/natural-language-understanding/self-service/ Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.

How do you compare with your peers? It’s a question that every marketer asks, and data is the trick to removing the guesswork from that answer. But finding the right data to benchmark yourself against your peers can be a challenge. Joining the podcast this week is Rob Garf, the VP and General Manager of Retail at Salesforce. He explores how Salesforce builds insights for retail customers to gain clarity on where they sit in the market.  Infuse Data into Everything You’re Doing In this episode, Rob discusses how retailers use Salesforce’s Shopping Index to compare their performance with peers and what types of data are most important to focus on. Our conversation delves into the methods of collecting actionable insights, the importance of understanding customer behavior, and why data-driven personalization is key to building a great customer experience.  Rob also shares plenty of examples of how retailers have used Salesforce's data to enhance their business operations and offers advice for organizations aiming to build a data-centric culture. We also explore how Salesforce’s annual holiday predictions have increased brand recognition and built trust with executives.  In This Episode: 1:40 - How Salesforce gathers insights that impact customers 3:37 - How Salesforce decides which data is most useful for clients 5:11 - Tying data insights into day-to-day actions 9:26 - Empowering clients and the Salesforce team to build a culture of data 11:59 - Using research as content 16:33 - How data can drive personalization 20:52 - Why customers now expect personalization 23:07 - Salesforce’s holiday insights campaign 26:20 - How Salesforce’s insights drive brand recognition 31:44 - Rob’s advice for organizations that want to lead with data 35:42 - How Salesforce builds a culture of data in a large organization  Quotes: “Anytime we're thinking about collecting data or thinking about telling stories with the data, we try to get as many stakeholders involved in it as possible. And so, we're really getting collective wisdom.” “I really encourage the team to think about the headline. It's really the thesis. What are we trying to convey? And then work backward to understand how we get the data to either substantiate that point or counter it.”   “Brands and retailers are looking for different and creative ways to capture data in exchange for some value rather than asking a consumer to fill out a questionnaire to learn who they are. It's about then using that data, activating that data, and using it to better their shopping experience.” Resources: Connect with Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-garf-224395/ Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.

Is it true that many Americans perceive their homes not just as living spaces, but as vehicles for wealth accumulation? And can this lead to a disconnect between their desires and the reality of home ownership? In this episode of Data-Driven Decisions, we find out.  What do Americans really want from their homes?  Is it just a cozy living space, or something more profound? Join us as we dive into the psyche of the modern homeowner with Erin Willis, Chief Insight and Marketing Officer at Sekisui House, one of America’s leading home builders. We look at the importance of understanding customer happiness and how it's at the core of creating homes that truly feel like a sanctuary. Erin also delves into the methodology behind Sekisui House's customer-centric approach, revealing the synergy between data-driven decisions and a genuine understanding of customer needs.  From leveraging video diaries for real insights to incorporating behavioral science into home design, this episode shines a light on the innovative strategies employed to make homes that genuinely cater to the happiness and health of their residents. This includes addressing common challenges like storage and space optimization, which are crucial for creating a stress-free, comfortable living environment.  Erin also shares the exciting launch of SHAWOOD, a brand that exemplifies Sekisui House's commitment to offering architecturally unique, environmentally friendly homes that meet modern needs.  In This Episode: 01:04 - Introducing Erin Willis and Sekisui House 03:09 - The overall strategic goals of Erin’s role as Chief Insight and Marketing Officer  05:31 - What American homeowners are looking for compared to other countries  08:20 - How Sekisui House conducts research into homeowner needs  10:40 - Building a culture of curiosity in your team and organization 13:29 - Turning insights into messaging that resonates with your audience  16:27 - How the data impacts the content that they create 19:44 - How Sekisui House sets customer expectations and measures them 22:15 - The launch of SHAWOOD and what it means for Sekisui House  25:02 - How Sekisui House validates hypotheses   27:31 - How the company extends customer lifetime value and builds loyalty  30:50 - Advice for marketers to start using data insights to develop a better customer experience 34:03 - Practices and guidelines that promote a sense of safety and creativity within the team 36:20 - Insights Erin wishes she had known at the beginning of her journey 39:23 - Examples of companies Erin admires for marrying customer-centricity and data   Quotes: “Building a culture of curiosity is something that I always encourage organizations to do. What kinds of practices do you have in your team's meetings or in your guidelines or in your processes that help to create that sense of safety, and make sure that folks feel like they can bring their questions and their ideas to the table?” “A lot of Americans view their home as an investment property. It's a vehicle to accumulate wealth. And it ceases to be a home when you start to think about it like that. A lot of people don't feel at home in their homes.” Resources: Sekisui House: https://www.sekisuihouse-global.com/ Connect with Erin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinboggswillis/ Connect with Zontee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zonteehou/ Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.

What can marketers learn from data? Data is more important than ever and gives marketers a seat at the table, not just when it comes to marketing decisions but also discussions that affect company culture, team structure, and sales. A brand new series hosted by Zontee Hou, the Managing Director of Convince & Convert, looks at the lessons we can take from data to inform the best marketing practices and internal culture. In this trailer episode, we catch a bit of her interview with Daniel Lemin on the Social Pros podcast, where she talks about her new book Data-Driven Personalization. She discusses some of the key insights from the book, why marketers need to have a more important presence at the ‘data table’, and how the concepts in the book apply to every marketer.  The book and podcast explore lessons and insights for marketers to get more out of the data they have and translate that into impactful and personalized customer experiences that increase customer lifetime value and allow us to develop more engaging marketing strategies. In This Episode: An introduction to the book, ‘Data-Driven Personalization’ What we can learn from companies who use data to drive decision-making Why we’re launching the Data-Driven Decisions podcast Topics the podcast will cover Quotes: “Whenever I can capture stories and share them and also explore why people made the decisions that they did behind the data, it makes it more tangible for us as marketers, and it makes it more usable to the folks who are looking at this content.” “We're not just going to be talking about marketing specifically, we're also going to be talking about the nexus of marketing and sales, the nexus of data and internal culture. So there's going to be a lot of really fascinating conversations.” “My goal is to make sure that you are really seeing how these ideas are applicable within your own organizations so that you have ideas of how you can make a more impactful marketing presence through data.” Resources: Connect with Zontee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zonteehou/ Purchase the book at koganpage.com/datadrivenpersonalization (use code CCData20 for 20% off and free shipping in the UK and US) and sign up for more content at convinceandconvert.com.