25. Consciousness and Dreams

Conversations on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind: A Deep Dive Book DiscussionA deep dive discussion delving into the book "Conversations on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind: Interviews with Leading Thinkers on Julian Jaynes's Theory."This book is highly recommended for those new to Julian Jaynes and long time Jaynes enthusiasts alike:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1737305534/Introduction read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Contents:00:00 - Introduction03:12 - Resistance to New Ideas03:52 - Defining Consciousness09:40 - Consciousness and Language Part 113:38 - When Consciousness Developed16:39 - Comparing the Iliad and the Odyssey18:30 - The Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind19:35 - Vestiges of Bicameral Mentality19:59 - Hearing Voices24:02 - The Feeling of a Sensed Presence25:18 - Hypnosis27:58 - Creative Inspiration28:40 - The Evolution of Religion30:28 - Spirit Possession30:54 - Cave Art31:25 - Seeking External Authorization32:18 - Consciousness and Language Part 235:55 - Jaynes's Neurological Model41:17 - Implications of the Theory45:20 - The Future of Consciousness47:00 - Concluding Remarks

Consciousness and Bicameral Mentality: A Deep Dive Discussion Exploring Nearly Every Aspect of Julian Jaynes's TheoryA fascinating, deep dive discussion that provides an in-depth exploration of nearly every aspect of Julian Jaynes's theory of the origin of consciousness and an earlier mentality he called the bicameral mind.Highly recommended for those new to Julian Jaynes and long time Jaynes enthusiasts alike! Produced by Camille Tillier. Introduction read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Contents:00:00:00 - Introduction00:02:51 - Jaynes's Core Claims00:03:22 - The Origin of Consciousness00:10:40 - Bicameral Mentality00:17:52 - Wide-Ranging Implications00:27:42 - Literary Evidence: Ancient Greece00:32:50 - Literary Evidence: Mesopotamia00:38:55 - Literary Evidence: Ancient Egypt00:41:00 - Archeological Evidence00:45:02 - Neurological Evidence00:48:00 - What It Was Like to Be Bicameral00:52:03 - Absence of Deception and Morality00:57:21 - The Causes of Consciousness01:03:06 - Bicameral Vestiges: Omens01:06:18 - Bicameral Vestiges: Angels and Genii01:07:43 - Bicameral Vestiges: Oracles and Divination01:10:37 - Bicameral Vestiges: Tourette Syndrome and Glossolalia01:11:24 - Bicameral Vestiges: Poetry and Music01:14:42 - Bicameral Vestiges: Hypnosis01:17:46 - Bicameral Vestiges: Schizophrenia01:20:54 - Bicameral Vestiges: Imaginary Companions01:21:57 - Bicameral Vestiges: Totalitarian States01:23:12 - New Evidence for Jaynes's Theory01:30:23 - Profound Implications: Consciousness01:32:16 - Profound Implications: Religion01:33:12 - Profound Implications: The Nature of Reality01:33:55 - Profound Implications: The Human Condition01:35:25 - Concluding Remarks and the Future of Consciousness

Consciousness and Dreams By Marcel Kuijsten“In The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, Julian Jaynes discusses a variety of forms of evidence for the transition from a bicameral mentality to consciousness. The study of dreams provides another window through which to examine this transition. By extension, historical changes in the nature of dreams support the idea that consciousness is in a learned process based on language and not biologically innate. There is a common assumption that the nature of dreams has been consistent throughout recorded history, yet this is not the case. If we analyze the first recorded accounts of dreams and compare these accounts with modern dreams, we see a stark contrast. …”This essay originally appeared in The Jaynesian, Marcel Kuijsten & Brian J. McVeigh (eds.), Winter 2010, Volume 4, Issue 1.Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 

An interview with Julian Jaynes Society Founder and Executive Director Marcel Kuijsten and Julian Jaynes Society Senior Researcher and author Brian J. McVeigh on Julian Jaynes's theory of the origin of consciousness and the bicameral mind. Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Read Marcel Kuijsten's books on Julian Jaynes's theory: "Conversations on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind: Interviews with Leading Thinkers on Julian Jaynes's Theory" "Gods, Voices, and the Bicameral Mind: The Theories of Julian Jaynes" "The Julian Jaynes Collection" "Reflections on the Dawn of Consciousness: Julian Jaynes's Bicameral Mind Theory Revisited"

Falling between the Cracks: Julian Jaynes’s Defiance of Scholarly Conventions Challenged Cherished Methodological Assumptions — This Is What Makes Him Hard to Appreciate By Brian J. McVeigh Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Academics make progress when they are inspired by the cross-pollination of ideas, and most researchers, arguably, utilize a multi-disciplinary approach to some degree, i.e., no piece of research fits perfectly into one scholarly field. Much of the academic landscape can be described as combinatory endeavors — social psychology, psychological anthropology, psychology of religion, neuropsychology, neurotheology, etc., to name just a few. Cross-fertilization is a wonderful and much-needed antidote to specialization, subspecialization, sub-subspecialization, etc. ... Read the complete text from this episode here: https://www.julianjaynes.org/2022/12/05/falling-between-the-cracks-jayness-defiance-of-scholarly-conventions/ Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

The Myth of “Pure Consciousness” - The Belief in a Fundamental Psychic Process Hinders Progress in Psychology By Brian J. McVeigh Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). “If understanding a thing is arriving at a familiarizing metaphor for it, then we can see that there always will be a difficulty in understanding consciousness. For it should be immediately apparent that there is not and cannot be anything in our immediate experience that is like immediate experience itself. There is therefore a sense in which we shall never be able to understand consciousness in the same way that we can understand things that we are conscious of”  (Julian Jaynes, 1976, p. 53). I have often wondered why so many well-credentialed researchers continue to bark up the wrong tree in their quest to understand consciousness. Many reasons could be offered, but in a recent discussion on the “Julian Jaynes — The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind” Facebook page someone brought up Jaynes’s aforementioned quote. ... Read the complete text from this episode here: https://www.julianjaynes.org/2022/10/18/the-myth-of-pure-consciousness/ Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

A Resurgence of Julian Jaynes’ Theory of Consciousness By Peter Sellick Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Adam Mars-Jones begins his review of Alvaro Enrigue’s “You Dreamed of Empires” (London Review of Books, Volume 46, Number 10) with the following: “Culture shock​ seems too mild a phrase to describe the arrival of Europeans in South and Central America. In his 1976 maverick classic, The Origin of consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (its category speculative neurohistory, at a guess), Julian Jaynes proposes that, at the time Pizarro and his men reached them, the Inca didn’t have full mental autonomy but only ‘protosubjectivity’. They functioned largely by a sort of automatism, acting according to unchanging patterns and ritual clues, able to absorb only slight disruptions to their routines, so that this was less a clash of civilisations than of mental structures.” This sent me scrambling for my old copy of Jaynes’ monumental book that I read in the late 80s. Read the complete text from this episode here: https://www.julianjaynes.org/2024/08/16/a-resurgence-of-julian-jaynes-theory-of-consciousness/ Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Julian Jaynes Is Not for the Intellectually Fainthearted — But Breaking Jaynesian Psychology Down into Four Hypotheses Makes Things Easier By Brian J. McVeigh Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). I first encountered Julian Jaynes’s The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind almost 45 years ago. Though the book made sense to me, I could see why people would reject its arguments. Nevertheless I assumed that once carefully explained, people may not agree but would at least be able to discern a certain logic behind Jaynesian psychology. How naïve I was. Read the complete text from this episode here: https://www.julianjaynes.org/2022/06/07/julian-jaynes-is-not-for-the-intellectually-fainthearted/ Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

The Need to Acknowledge Bicameral Vestiges: Jaynesian Psychology Finds Support not just from the Ancient World By Brian J. McVeigh Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This post is inspired by a recent exchange I had with a commentator who saw little value in relying on biblical accounts as evidence to support Jaynes’s theories because they were “fairytales.” Presumably such a criticism could be extended to other writings that constitute humanity’s extensive religious tradition. It is worth responding to this line of critique because it is not an uncommon reaction from those who find fault with Jaynes (and for what it’s worth, Jaynes did not set out to explain the origins of religion; his research was on the origin of consciousness). Read the complete text from this episode here: https://www.julianjaynes.org/2022/04/26/the-need-to-acknowledge-bicameral-vestiges/ Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Disentangling Inner Speech, Self-dialogue, and Auditory Hallucinations: The Mind Is a Machine for Sociopsychological Communication By Brian J. McVeigh Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). How are inner speech, self-dialogue, auditory imagery, and hallucinations related? And what exactly are hallucinations? Some have suggested that hallucinations are caused by a monitoring defect in inner speech (also termed inner voice, silent speech, subvocal speech, covert speech, self talk, internal monologue, verbal thought, etc.) (Fernyhough, The Voices Within, 2016). Such a claim, however, ignores the overwhelming evidence concerning hallucinations before about 1000 BCE. Any theoretical linkage must take into account one crucial datum: hallucinations were central to normal sociopsychological functioning. Hallucinations, which were ubiquitous in the ancient world, were a mechanism for social control (until about the first millennium BCE). The “monitoring defect” hypothesis confuses matters: Rather than hallucinations resulting from a problem with inner speech, inner speech is a type of watered-down hallucination. This is why, arguably, for some an inner voice possesses agent-like properties or is accompanied by a felt presence, suggesting vestigial bicameral mentality. Read the complete text from this episode here: https://www.julianjaynes.org/2021/10/26/disentangling-inner-speech-self-dialogue-and-auditory-hallucinations/ Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.