Episode 255: What Do You Say? 3 Conversations About Spiritual Seeking, Being Forgotten, and Chasing Equality

In Episode 255, Cynthia and Susan ask Aubrey Chaves, Debbie Squires-Coleman, and Darice Auston, "What Do You Say?" It's 3 wide-ranging conversations with wise Latter-day Saint women answering questions about their memories, insights, and beliefs through stories of their own lives and experiences.

Does piety serve anything besides the ego? Is our piety an asset or a liability? And what are we—individually and collectively—getting from it? In Episode 254, Susan and Cynthia consider these questions and more in a conversation examining the piety that is a cultural hallmark of our church. For Latter-day Saints and other Christians, is a focus on outward appearances or superficial "churchiness" sometimes a stand-in for real inner transformation?

When Latter-day Saints hear the phrase "Purity Culture," they may associate it more with evangelical churches than with our own. LDS talks and lessons focus on words like virtue, modesty, morality, and chastity to describe our ideals. But regardless of the specific words used, the messages are the same. Therapist C.A. Larson points out, "Purity culture is a moral control system that ties worth to sexual behavior, especially for women. [...] Purity culture in the LDS Church is institutional, enforced through interviews, modesty rules, and silence around consent." In Episode 253, Cynthia and Susan welcome C.A. back to ALSSI for a discussion about Purity Culture: what it is, its psychological and emotional impacts, and its systemic connection to sexual abuse. It's a conversation that makes space for grief and anger, and identifies healing paths. C.A. explains, "Healing is not about becoming more sexual or less sexual. It is about embracing our agency...relearning consent, trusting bodily signals, separating worth from obedience, reclaiming choice, going slowly and allowing ambivalence. You don't owe your body to doctrine, and you don't owe your healing to anyone else's timeline."CW: sexual abuse

Many Latter-day Saint women feel some constraint when it comes to using our voices at church, but it can even be hard to express what we think, feel, and believe in our own homes or personal relationships. Writing down thoughts that don't fit neatly in the box and hitting publish can bring consequences, but once a woman begins to speak, she's likely to find the repercussions she feared were much bigger than the ones she'll actually face. In Episode 252, Susan and Cynthia are joined by writer and independent scholar Katie Ludlow Rich for a conversation about her personal journey to reclaim her voice. It's a story about one woman speaking up, framed within a larger exploration of Mormon women's collective voices as reflected in 50 Years of Exponent II.

For 6 years, Susan and Cynthia have been asking podcast guests, "What do you know?" In Season 11, they'll be asking a variety of Latter-day Saint women new questions about their memories, insights, and beliefs, with a card game called, What Do You Say? Episode 251 introduces the game as C & S break out the decks of cards for a fun and wide-ranging conversation of questions and answers.

How do you feel about sin? Richard Rohr describes our inevitable human missteps as essential to our growth when he says, "Not doing it right seems to teach us much more than doing it perfectly." But for many Latter-day Saints who struggle with ongoing feelings of guilt and/or shame, Rohr's interpretation may sound a bit too good to be true. Our church's focus on worthiness can get in the way of members' ability to look at mistakes—big and small—as growth opportunities, built right into the plan. In Episode 250, Susan and Cynthia are joined by members of the ALSSI community for a conversation about sin. How have your experiences affected the way you think about it? As your faith evolves, have you reframed sin entirely?

Latter-day Saints consider ours to be a non-credal religion, yet nearly all our Articles of Faith begin with the phrase, "We believe...." We're asked questions about our specific beliefs in official interviews where our temple worthiness is dependent on the answers. But what happens when one's beliefs shift over the course of time? How much does subscribing to a specific set of theological convictions matter when it comes to individual members' lives and relationships? In Episode 249, Cynthia and Susan kick off a season of conversations about big ideas by discussing one of the biggest: Belief.

Latter-day Saints are often told that the contemporary Church is built on the same model Jesus Christ used to establish His church. In this bonus re-release, Cynthia and Susan offer a few thoughts on that idea, and also discuss the pattern they see: the Bible doesn't only show Jesus choosing women in the New Testament—beginning with Eve, women are cast in pivotal roles from the very start. The original episode explores how Jesus's inclusion of women was radical within its cultural context. Yet for most of history, his namesake religion has been marked by near-total domination of the patriarchy. What happened? Greg Prince once asked Chieko Okazaki a question that bears repeating: "…where do we need to go to get women in the Church where He wants them to be?" In Episode 248, Cynthia and Susan pose that question again, shining light on a few of the women hidden in plain sight at Christianity's beginnings.

Curiosity should feel foundational for Latter-day Saints—it's the birthplace of our religious tradition. Any member of the Church can recite the story of young Joseph Smith seeking wisdom he lacked. Curiosity is where any search for God—or for anything beyond ourselves—begins. It's an open stance that can help us get comfortable when we find ourselves unexpectedly dropped into liminal space. Empathy has its origin in curiosity, as does creativity. All of this makes it a perfect wrap for our series of discussions centering change and transition. In Episode 247, Susan and Cynthia explore curiosity. It's a season finale conversation that bridges to our upcoming Season 11 focus: Big Ideas.

In a podcast season devoted to talking about change, it makes sense to revisit some previously covered topics to see whether there's been any. In Episode 246, Cynthia and Susan take another look at a foundational ALSSI discussion: What Women Don't Get In Our Church. What's the official messaging for Latter-day Saint women now, and does it reflect movement? Are we going forward? Backward? Nowhere? And do current narratives around women and our relationship to priesthood reflect actual progress...or not?