Louise Doughty on the unrealised potential of older women

My guest today is the forensic psychotherapist Dr Jennifer Cox. She trained at the Tavistock and now has an extensive practice specialising in treating women with undiagnosed anger. As part of this work she developed the Women are Mad approach to help women who can’t afford therapy to “think below the surface” about where their rage might be coming from. Sounds like it might be useful? I thought so, too. Jen is also the co host of the Women Are Mad podcast and has written a book called Women Are Angry which is very much what it says on the tin.  Her mission? To help us identify our rage and let it the hell out. Productively. Of course. Jen joined me for a fascinating conversation about the nature of female rage and why she thinks we’re seeing such a groundswell of fury now. We also discussed the impact of being a young carer, when and why we learn to “bitch”, why it’s easier to be a worried person than an angry one and the moment the anger penny dropped for her. CW: I should warn you that there’s passing discussion of suicidal ideation, eating disorders and depression Note: This was recorded before the November 5 election in the US. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Women are Angry by Jennifer Cox and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is Louise Doughty, the woman behind some of the knottiest thrillers to grace our bookshelves and TV screens in recent years. Her bestseller, Apple Tree Yard about a sensible middle aged woman who makes a very unsensible decision (involving sex in the house of commons!) sold over half a million copies and was turned into a smash hit BBC series starring Emily Watson. She was also the brains behind the breathtaking BBC drama Crossfire that starred Keeley Hawes.  Of course What you don’t hear, is that Apple Tree Yard was Louise’s 7th novel, catapulting her to “the big time” at the age of 50. Her latest book, A Bird In Winter, looks set to continue that trajectory. Think The 39 steps if the lead was an extremely resourceful 50something woman on the run. Louise joined me to talk about how her “overnight” success at 50” transformed her life (mainly she finally started a pension!) And why it’s still considered controversial when middle aged women have sex! We also discussed surviving the menopause-puberty collision, the unrealised fury - and potential - of the middle aged woman and the power and importance of realising you’re not for everyone. And that’s fine. Note: apologies for the occasionally disrupted sound quality at the start of this episode. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including A Bird in Winter by Louise Doughty and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today’s guest is a personal favourite. I first met Kate Weinberg (the bestselling author of The Truants) when I was stricken with long covid and a mutual friend put us in touch. “You need to talk to Kate,” she urged. “She’ll be able to help. Kate was able to help - and did. Thanks in large part to her I went from feeling like my old, functioning life had gone forever, to regaining more than a semblance of normal. Whatever that is. Because Kate is not only one of the first people to experience and long covid, she is also an immensely kind and generous woman.  That experience - of living an illness that doctors dismissed as “all in her head” - led to her new novel, There’s Nothing Wrong With Her - a comi-tragic story about mental health, the way women’s illness is dismissed, living up to early midlife expectation and surviving modern life. It also stars a goldfish called Whitney Houston! I went to Kate’s envy-inducing north London house to talk about running away fantasies, the impact of losing her mum at 3 and how she’s spent her life assembling a patchwork of mothers, her career finally waking up in her 40s, going on HRT in her 30s, embracing crone energy and, yes, the impact of living with an illness you’re told is “all in your head”. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including There's Nothing Wrong With her by Kate Weinberg and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the broadcaster Vanessa Feltz. Ever since the mid-90s, Vanessa has been a fixture on British TV and radio - and also, for better or worse, our front pages. She became known as the “British Oprah” and that applied not just to her consummate skills as a broadcaster and talent for saying the unsayable, but also what she describes as her “pernicious public cycle of yoyo dieting.” She cut her teeth on This Morning, interviewed stars on the Big Breakfast Bed and hosted her own hit show Vanessa, the first British US-style talk show. She’s also presented BBC Radio 2’s Early Breakfast Show and BBC London’s Breakfast show and now hosts a Saturday show on LBC.  But like many women in the public eye, her professional achievements have often played second fiddle to media scrutiny of her private life. Vanessa joined me to talk about finally baring it all in the frank, funny, fearless autobiography she said she’d never write, Vanessa Bares All. We also discussed growing up with a chorus of critics and dealing with the toxic media attention paid to her weight. Plus divorce, being back in the dating game at 62, why she wishes she’d been able to take Ozempic, finally losing her inhibitions and why she’d really like a great big love. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Vanessa Bares All by Vanessa Feltz and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you sometimes worry you’ve left it too late to follow your heart, today’s guest should give you hope. At 40, Jane Campbell got a divorce and took herself off to university where she trained as a group analyst. 40 years later, at the age of 80, she had her first short story was published, after she sent Cat Brushing to the London Review of Books on a whim. As a rule they don’t publish fiction, but less than three weeks later, they did just that.  Cat Brushing became the title of her debut short story collection - a short, sharp collection about the inner life of older women that I’ve read over and over again. The New York Times compared her to Edna Obrien and Muriel Spark. No biggie. Now Jane’s written a novel, Interpretations of Love which is, ultimately, about the things left unsaid and their lifelong implications. From her home in Oxfordshire, Jane told me why it’s so important to her to put the loves, lusts and losses of old women centre stage. We also discussed the impact of being a war baby and growing up with the belief that men were surplus to requirements, finding herself, a new life and a job she loved at 40 - and doing it again at 80. The lure of the solitary life and how she learnt to stop asking permission in midlife - and has never looked back. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Cat Brushing and Interpretations of Love by Jane Campbell and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today knows a thing or two about being single, and she’s hear to tell you that there’s more than one way to live an emotionally fulfilling life.  Marianne Power is a journalist who made a perfectly decent living testing things so you didn’t have to - mascara, spa retreats, you get the gist - until the decision to spend a year testing self help books changed her life in ways she’d never expected. The resulting book, Help me! Has since sold hundreds of thousands of copies, been translated into 25 languages and been optioned for TV. Clearly something about her funny, candid, vulnerable approach struck a chord. But as she turned 40, Marianne still had questions. Namely, why were all her friends merrily ticking boxes on the life to-do list and she wasn’t… love eluded her, so she decided to try the same approach. In Love me! She looks at society’s obsession with marriage, kids and domesticity and whether you can love and be loved without them. I met Marianne in London to talk about rewriting the stories we tell ourselves about love and sex and why there’s more than one soulmate for everyone (and, no,) they don’t have to be sexual. We also talked anxiety, growing up ginger, being childfree by choice, tantra and, the kicker, why sex is not a reward for being young and hot.  Find out more about Jan Day's tantra workshops at https://www.janday.com/ * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Love Me! by Marianne Power and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is author, endurance athlete and ex BBC breakfast presenter Louise Minchin. Louise is, of course, best known for her twenty year stint on BBC Breakfast’s sofa but she has also been main news anchor on the BBC News, presented The One Show and participated in a host of reality TV shows including I’m a Celebrity get me out of here. Since leaving the sofa, she has chaired the Women’s Prize for Fiction, honed her skills as an endurance athlete (she qualified for the Great Britain Age-Group Triathlon Team in 2015 for the World Triathlon Championships in Chicago, and completed the Norseman triathlon - she doesn’t do things by halves!) and turned her hand to writing. Louise’s latest book is a heartstopping thriller called Isolation Island, which takes ten celebrities and dumps them in a derelict monastery on a remote scottish island. Think I’m A Celebrity meets Traitors with a splash of Big Brother and you’re halfway there! Louise joined me to talk about the importance of putting women of all ages centre stage and how she built a new career off the breakfast TV sofa. We also discussed how perimenopause robbed her of herself, the power of adventure, how she learnt to love her body for what it can do not how it looks and why she wants to encourage more women to take a risk in midlife. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Isolation Island by Louise Minchin and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today’s guest is the American actress, writer and singer Moon Unit Zappa. Moon shot to fame in her early teens when her vocals featured on her father Frank Zappa’s unlikely hit Valley Girl. Subsequently she has been an actor, singer, presenter and artist. I’m about a year older than her and I know I’ve pretty much been aware of her ever since But she was never quite able to step out of the shadow of her “music genius” father Frank and mother Gail. The eldest of four siblings, Moon says, she was basically an adult by the time she was 5. Now aged 57, Moon has written Earth to Moon, a funny, self-deprecating and candid memoir that attempts to bring perspective to a life lived in the glare of celebrity, creativity, genius and narcissism. It’s just begging to be turned into a TV series. If you, like me, grew up with a reassuringly boring small town childhood, you might look at Moon’s life with a pang envy. Moon is here to set you right! Moon joined me from her home in LA to talk about the lifelong impact of growing up in a household that revolves around a “genius” and with a mother who’s the ultimate unreliable narrator. We also discussed eldest daughter syndrome, the nepo baby dilemma, how she learnt to make herself central to her own life, the curse of dating both versions of your parents and why she thinks hot flashes are hilarious.  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Earth to Moon by Moon Unit Zappa and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is a woman who has truly come into her own in middle-age. A broadcaster, engineer, statistician and entrepreneur, at the age of 63 Carol Vorderman is now best known for fearlessly calling power to account.  Sick of the sleaze and corruption she saw emanating from our politicians she decided it was time to speak up.  And her million twitter followers and listeners to her LBC show listened. Why? Because she’s one of us. An ordinary kid from a working class background, brought up by a single mum in North Wales. Carol is also a patron of Menopause Mandate, has been named one of the 25 most influential women by Vogue, and she’s got an MBE. You get the picture.  Now she’s written a book, Now What? A book about politics for people who think politics isn’t for them. Carol joined me to talk candidly about menopause and gaining her voice at 60, The lifelong impact of being a free school meals kid, The importance of financial independence and Why she won’t be cowed by bullies and trolls. She also gives us a useful lesson in how to spot a narcissist. Carol vorderman is living life without apology. And I’m here for it. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Now What? by Carol Vorderman and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is Bella Mackie. Until her mid-30s Bella was a journalist, then she wrote a book called Jog On and her trajectory changed - dramatically. Ostensibly a book about running, Jog On was actually a soul-baring account of Bella’s battle with anxiety, OCD and depression and how, ultimately, running saved her. It was one of a wave of books that blended memoir with motivation and was a big and unexpected hit. Then, a couple of years ago she wrote the brilliantly titled How To Kill Your Family. TikTok fell on it. Cue 47 weeks in the top 10 and a Netflix series. Not jealous at all.  Now she’s back with the equally twisted What A Way To Go. In which more highly unlikeable people get their comeuppance. Well, some of them. Truly Bella can come up with ways to kill a loved one you hadn’t even dreamed of! Bella joined me to talk about being child-free and building your own roadmap to ageing without kids in the equation. We also discussed her childhood obsession with true crime, how there’s not a top trumps of mental health and why she still has a long way to go to fight her way out of the good girl box. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including What A Way To Go by Bella Mackie and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices