How Much Does A Podcast With 1,000 Listeners Make? (The Real Number)

A podcast with a thousand listeners makes about a hundred and forty-four dollars a month.I checked that properly.So then I say the second thing, which is the bit that makes people go quiet. You don't want a hundred and forty-four dollars a month. You want one thousand four hundred and forty-four. And the way you get there is by not doing ads.In this episode:— Why the hundred and forty-four dollar figure is right, and why that's the problem— The only lever CPM gives you, and where it leads— The arithmetic that made me laugh— What renting your mid-roll actually costs you— My affiliate disclosure, said out loud, because this episode demands it— One thing to do this week that takes sixty seconds of 'tape'Tools I use and get paid to mention.I record on Boomcaster, edit in Descript most weeks, and Captivate hosts this show.Affiliate links below — I earn a commission at no extra cost to you. I'm telling you because the whole episode is about people who don't.— Boomcaster: https://www.boomcaster.com/?ref=AzyWVAUu8UgsoCAZT (free trial + 50% off first three months)— Descript: https://descript.cello.so/Kct9xUy3ilR (50% off first two months)— Captivate: https://www.captivate.fm/signup?ref=nealveglioThe Podmastery Community is open soon.Come and join us: https://podmastery.co/podcasting-communityStuck on something specific? Get your next podcasting challenge solved one-to-one at https://podmastery.coPodmastery: Podcasting Insights is my podcast for people who've actually had a go at this and are a bit sick of being told they're doing it wrong by people who've never properly done it at all. I'm Neal Veglio, the Podmaster.

About four years ago, a very popular remote recording platform offered me money to talk about them on this show. I'd been using it that week. It had also, that week, lost one of my recordings. Not glitched. Lost.I said no. And I want to be clear that this wasn't a moral decision, because it wasn't. It was arithmetic.This episode is about the thing you're holding and consistently failing to price. Because the belief is that sponsorship is a reward for volume — hit some magic download number and you're finally allowed. So you wait. And when someone eventually offers you something, you say yes very fast, because you've been told this is the gate opening.Here's the problem with that. Only 7% of podcasts reach 5,000 downloads an episode. Two per cent reach 20,000. The benchmark show you've been measuring yourself against is a rounding error. You've been waiting for permission from a category that's almost entirely empty.Meanwhile the advertising industry — not me, them — describes mid-tier and niche shows as underpriced. They're on record. And when you look at what they actually pay, business and B2B shows pull $40 to $80 CPM while the big broad comedy and lifestyle shows pull $15 to $35. Narrow is worth more per listener than popular.So the question stops being will anyone ever pay me? and becomes what's the cheapest I'd take for it? Most podcasters have never answered that. Which is exactly how you end up saying yes to something you've never used.There's an uncomfortable bit in here about what actually happens when you do. It isn't unsubscribes. Nobody storms off. It's quieter and considerably worse than that.In this episode:— Why the download benchmark you're chasing barely exists— The word the ad industry uses for shows your size, and why it should annoy you— Why a $50 CPM show can be a better buy than a $15 one— What it actually costs you when you endorse something you haven't tested— My entire sponsorship policy, which is one sentence long and slightly embarrassing— One thing to write down today, on the back of a receiptTools mentioned in this episode. I record on Boomcaster, I edit in Descript most weeks, and Captivate hosts this show. I have affiliate links for all three, which means I earn a commission if you sign up through them at no extra cost to you. I'm telling you that because the whole episode is about people who don't. If I stopped using any of them, I'd stop talking about them.— Boomcaster: https://www.boomcaster.com/?ref=AzyWVAUu8UgsoCAZT (Free trial, plus 50% off your first three months)— Descript: https://descript.cello.so/Kct9xUy3ilR (50% off first two months)— Captivate: https://www.captivate.fm/signup?ref=nealveglioWant in on the Podmastery Community? We're opening the doors to the public soon. To join the founding members, go to https://podmastery.co/podcasting-communityStuck on something specific? Come and get your next podcasting challenge solved one-to-one with me at https://podmastery.coPodmastery: Podcasting Insights is my podcast for people who've actually had a go at this and are a bit sick of being told they're doing it wrong by people who've never properly done it at all. I'm Neal Veglio, the Podmaster.

I was on YouTube the other night. Not for a good reason.Twenty minutes later I'm looking at one of the big ones — two lads in a studio worth more than my house, four cameras, somebody just out of shot whose entire job that day was deciding where the lamps went. Two point three million views. Up about a day and a half.And I'm sat on the edge of the bed with my shoes still on thinking: how the hell am I supposed to compete with that.I think that every few weeks. I'd love to tell you I don't.This episode is about that moment, because I've decided it isn't what we all think it is.Everyone will tell you comparison is the thief of joy, which is a lovely thing to put on a tile in a nice font and about as much use as a chocolate mixing desk. So instead, let's look at what you were actually doing.A download is a file moving from one computer to another. It doesn't mean anybody listened. A YouTube view is a video starting to play — a completely different event. Chart positions aren't a measure of size at all; they're a measure of momentum. And Spotify and Apple count things differently and won't tell you exactly how.So when you put your number next to theirs, you aren't making an unfair comparison. You aren't making a comparison at all.Which raises the more uncomfortable question of what you were really asking. Because nobody has ever done competitive analysis at half eleven at night with their shoes on.And then there's the number you had in your head when you started. You've almost certainly passed it. You almost certainly didn't notice.One thing to go and do at the end, and it takes about a minute.Founding member doors for the Podmastery Community open soon — podmastery.co/waitlistEverything else, including the emails Sangeeta was on about: podmastery.co

I typed my own podcasting agency's brand name into Google. Spelled wrong, completely on purpose, because transcription services keep hearing "Podknows" and writing "Podnose." Something was living there. A whole podcast network. Twenty-odd shows. Says it's been going since 2013. I was already writing the angry LinkedIn post. And then I did the thing I keep telling everybody else to do. And for a good few minutes back there, I was the villain in this story. Which is where the actually useful bit starts. Because the mistake I made wasn't the accusation. That was just ego pain. The mistake was made years earlier, and I suspect you have made exactly the same one without ever finding out. In this episode: why nobody discovers a podcast the way we imagine they do, what actually happens when a bloke at a barbecue in Fareham recommends your show out loud, and the reason you will never, ever see this problem in your analytics. And then one thing to go and do about it, which takes ninety seconds and costs nothing. Chapters 01:02 Obviously I checked the name 02:42 I was the villain in this story 03:36 Your brand has two names 04:31 How people actually hear about podcasts 05:23 The listener you'll never know you lost 07:26 What do you do about it? 08:17 Why a trademark won't save you from this 08:57 Podmastery Community Member trailer The bloke I accused of nothing: Podnose, an independent UK entertainment podcast network founded in 2013 by George Grimwood. A couple of the shows are genuinely good but the majority of them seem to no longer be publishing. podnose.com Podmastery goodies you can grab: Treat yourself to a PodmasteryPodcast AuditFounding member doors for thePodmasteryPodcast Communityopen soonEverything else:podmastery.co

Alex Cooper's company Unwell took its first outside investment, from Patrick Whitesell's WTSL, at a $500 million valuation. Every podcast expert on LinkedIn immediately pointed out that this is more than iHeartMedia. I went to check that, because I don't repeat numbers I haven't checked, and I got several different answers from several perfectly respectable financial sources on the same day. Turns out iHeart has multiple classes of share and the best part of $6 billion of debt strapped to its back, so depending which bit you measure you can have whichever number you fancy. It's less a valuation and more a horoscope. But here's what survives all of that, and it's the bit nobody's saying. The story doing the rounds is "creator wins, platforms lose." That's rubbish. I'll explain why. In this episode: — What a humming shed in a field had to do with your career for 100 years — Why "it's worth more than iHeart" is a number nobody quoting it has checked — Barstool, Spotify, SiriusXM: three tenancies, one landlord — The bit where I admit I didn't clock any of this for years — Why you've been feeling rubbish about yourself on the wrong scoreboard — One number to look at instead, today Note: Unwell has been the subject of reporting this year, including a Vanity Fair investigation, alleging a difficult workplace culture. Cooper disputes it. Nothing in this episode is a comment on that either way — the point here is structural, about who owns what, and it would hold regardless of who the owner turned out to be. This is Podmastery: Podcasting Opinions — the spinoff from Podcasting Insights. Insights is where I think properly about something. Opinions is where something's happened in the industry and I've got a view. Podmastery goodies you can grab: Treat yourself to a PodmasteryPodcast AuditFounding member doors for thePodmasteryPodcast Communityopen soonEverything else:podmastery.co 💬 Work with me one-to-one — https://podmastery.co I'm Neal Veglio, the Podmaster — podcast producer and consultant, 25+ years in radio and audio, founder of Podknows Podcasting.

Last week I suggested, in a LinkedIn comment, that podcasters should all walk off Spotify together and keep them honest. Then I went and looked into how you'd actually do it. And that's when the truth of the situation emerged. And OMFG is it a situation. So this episode was going to be the good news about organising a walkout. Instead it's the honest version of why we can't. In this episode: — Where's the button to leave Spotify — One tap to skip you, a support ticket to go — The free rider problem, and why strikes need strike funds — Why the trade bodies can't help with this one — What happened when Neil Young actually tried it — My own conflict of interest, stated plainly — The one call to action worth changing this week Podmastery goodies you can grab: Treat yourself to a PodmasteryPodcast AuditFounding member doors for thePodmasteryPodcast Communityopen soonEverything else:podmastery.co

Spotify has secretly built a button that tells your listener which bits of your episode aren't worth hearing. It's called Skip Ahead. It's in testing, they haven't announced it, and the excellent podcast industry journalist James Cridland broke it on Podnews. One tap and you're past the entire ad break — not fifteen seconds, everything. The ad still gets delivered to the device, so the impression still counts and the advertiser still pays. They're just encouraging nobody to hear it. Including, in some cases, ads Spotify sold themselves. That's the industry story and it's been well covered. This episode is about the bit that hasn't. This isn't an advertising story. It's a platform applying editorial judgement to the stuff you made. And then there's the part where I have to be a little bit honest with you - you might have brought this on yourself. In this episode: — What Skip Ahead does, and why "you could always skip" doesn't hold up — Why "we're not affecting ad delivery" is technically true and completely dishonest — James Cridland on the terms and conditions nobody read — The membership pitch that got flagged as skippable — Why your intro is on the list too — The one thing a machine can never skip Clip from Podnews Weekly Review with James Cridland and Sam Sethi, used with thanks. Subscribe at weekly.podnews.net — he does the reporting, I just have opinions about it. Podmastery goodies you can grab: Treat yourself to a PodmasteryPodcast AuditFounding member doors for thePodmasteryPodcast Communityopen soonEverything else:podmastery.co Stuck on something specific? Get your next podcasting challenge solved one-to-one at podmastery.co Got your own opinion and want to share? Great! I love hearing from you. Here's where to do it - https://podmastery.co/get-in-touch/

It's stupid o'clock in the morning. You've just finished editing. And instead of feeling good about it, one horrible little thought is living rent free in your head where the zzzzzzs should be: do I have to do this forever? In this episode I troll the consistency doctrine which the gurus peddle. The show-up-every-week-forever commandment that gets drummed into you from day one, usually by someone whose whole business model is selling you the cure for the anxiety they just handed you. I also make the case that publishing in seasons is one of the worst ideas going for most indie shows. Not for the reason you'd expect. Seasons aren't a strategy, they're something else entirely. Podmastery goodies you can grab: Treat yourself to a PodmasteryPodcast AuditFounding member doors for thePodmasteryPodcast Communityopen soonEverything else:podmastery.co Stuck on something specific? Get your next podcasting challenge solved one-to-one at podmastery.co Got your own opinion and want to share? Great! I love hearing from you. Here's where to do it - https://podmastery.co/get-in-touch/

Ninety seconds into another consultant’s podcast, I got the 'shiver'. it wasn't over the mic quality. It wasn't because of bad editing. It was the words. They were tidy, warm... and hauntingly empty, like a very confident ghost had written the lot. This episode's about the single line that decides whether AI sharpens your show or hollows it out. Plus a confession I fully expect to get grief for... Podmastery goodies you can grab: Treat yourself to a PodmasteryPodcast AuditFounding member doors for thePodmasteryPodcast Communityopen soonEverything else:podmastery.co Stuck on something specific? Get your next podcasting challenge solved one-to-one at podmastery.co Got your own opinion and want to share? Great! I love hearing from you. Here's where to do it - https://podmastery.co/get-in-touch/

Here's the super uncomfortable truth this episode's built on: the day you publish makes not the slightest difference to a single download you receive. I will stake this whole show on it. And yet I still missed my Monday slot, published on a Wednesday, and felt like a failure anyway. That first feeling — the flicker of disappointment — is fine. It's just data. It's the second feeling that does the damage. In this one I'm being properly honest about the trap nobody warns you about when they tell you to "build your personal brand": you make the thing personal on purpose, and then every wobble in it feels personal too. So what do we do about it?... Podmastery goodies you can grab: Treat yourself to a PodmasteryPodcast AuditFounding member doors for thePodmasteryPodcast Communityopen soonEverything else:podmastery.co Stuck on something specific? Get your next podcasting challenge solved one-to-one at podmastery.co Got your own opinion and want to share? Great! I love hearing from you. Here's where to do it - https://podmastery.co/get-in-touch/ Got a podcasting thing you're quietly beating yourself up about? That's exactly the kind of problem I love to solve. Head to podmastery.co, click "Need Help", and book a 60-minute call. It's him on the other end — not a sales funnel.