Ep 220 - Is 'Leave No Trace' denying us a place in nature? with Danny English

In this deep and meandering episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis, Wem, and storyteller Danny English explore the layered meanings behind the phrase “Leave No Trace.” What begins as a discussion on outdoor ethics soon becomes a rich meditation on ecological grief, language, pedagogy, woodland relationships, and what it means to belong to a place. Together, they question the cultural norms of tidying up, consider the impact of den-building, and reflect on how story can shift behaviour more meaningfully than rules. Danny shares his roots in experiential education, the story behind his book Tales of the Timeless Forest, and how he works through conflict using narrative. From philosophical musings on deadwood and dominance, to practical provocations for forest school practice, this conversation offers no easy answers—but plenty of fertile ground for reflection.⏱ Chapter Timings:04:00 – Danny’s story: from Ramsbottom to experiential education in the US08:10 – Bridging the gap between outdoor and mainstream education10:42 – “Using nature” vs “being with nature” – why language matters15:48 – The origins of Leave No Trace and its cultural framing19:31 – Dens, deadwood, and how much trace is too much?25:25 – Woodland management dilemmas and practitioner responsibility32:16 – Story as a tool for navigating complex moments with children38:22 – Emotional reactions to monolith beech trees – trace, grief, and care47:33 – Is ‘permissive ecology’ a useful metaphor for outdoor practice?53:04 – Post-humanism, story-sharing, and the joy of seasonal tales🌲 Keywords:Forest School ethics, leave no trace, outdoor education dilemmas, woodland management, ecological grief, forest school culture, language in practice, experiential education, deadwood ecology, storytelling for behaviour, deep ecology, gentle pedagogy, posthumanism, tree monoliths, forest school reflection🔖 Hashtags:#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #LeaveNoTrace #DeepEcology #NatureConnection #ForestSchoolPodcast #WoodlandManagement #ChildLedLearning #StorytellingInNature #ReflectivePractice #EcologicalGrief #ForestSchoolCommunity #NaturePedagogy #PostHumanism🌐 More Episodes & Support:Listen to more and access resources at ⁠www.theforestschoolpodcast.com⁠Support the show and join our community at ⁠www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast⁠For questions, feedback, or collaboration: ⁠[email protected]

In this joyful and wide-ranging episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem sit down with artist, activist and Forest School leader Ruth Webb. Known for her giant puppets, folk beasts and street processions, Ruth shares the rich history and creative power of giant-making in the UK. The conversation explores how these large-scale creations connect communities, invite activism, and spark playful engagement with the land. Ruth explains the cultural roots of British giants, the story behind Dartmoor’s legendary Crocken, and the making of the Rewilderbeest – a plant-loving folk beast built from local, foraged materials. Together they unpack the role of masks, puppets, and participation in outdoor education, activism and folklore. From the politics of taking up space in the streets to the logistics of giant storage, this episode will leave you inspired to dream big, build bigger, and involve your whole community in the creative process.⏱ Chapter Timings:00:00 – Hot BluTAC debates and meeting Ruth01:10 – Ruth’s journey: theatre, activism, Forest School and giant-making03:45 – The folk history of British giants and their political roots06:30 – Symbolism, community presence, and reclaiming public space11:10 – Introducing the Rewilderbeest: folk traditions, materials and land connection16:20 – Playful plant identification with the Rewilderbeest and engaging children21:40 – Masks, puppets and why words matter: breaking the third wall in folk performance29:45 – Crocken: Dartmoor legend, Right to Roam activism, and building community identity36:15 – Tips for community builds: low-skill entry points and meaningful materials41:10 – Storage solutions and keeping giants alive across the years🌲 Keywords: Forest School arts, community processions, British folk traditions, giant making, Dartmoor folklore, environmental activism, Rewilderbeest, Crocken, Right to Roam, outdoor theatre, creative community projects, folk puppetry, participatory art, mask-making, land connection, Forest School storytelling, outdoor education arts, child-led creativity🔖 Hashtags:#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #CommunityArt #GiantMaking #FolkTraditions #EnvironmentalActivism #ForestSchoolPodcast #Rewilderbeest #DartmoorGiants #RightToRoam #ChildLedLearning #OutdoorTheatre #ProcessionalArt #ForestSchoolCreativity #StorytellingInNature🌐 More Episodes & Support:Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: [email protected]

In this joyful, wide-ranging episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem reunite to reflect on everything from folk rituals and land access to academic shifts and experimental puppetry. They share stories of Devon’s eccentric festivals, the power of whimsy, and the Supreme Court decision that restored the right to wild camp on Dartmoor. The conversation weaves through giant puppets, PhD plans, hosting badges, and the realities of holding space for community ritual while honouring individual autonomy. Lewis also discusses wearing a utility kilt in the woods—what inspired it, how it’s been received, and why it’s become more than just a fashion choice. Packed with laughter, cultural insight, and reflections on change, this episode is a celebration of curiosity, connection, and embracing the unpredictable.🎧 Chapter Timings:00:00 – Podcast returns: chaotic intros and nostalgic deep dives04:00 – Wem’s big news: starting a PhD in play at Forest School07:17 – Filling your cup: Lewis’ folk festival field trips08:57 – The Hunting of the Earl of Rhone and Devon’s wild traditions16:17 – Dartmoor rights: camping bans, community resistance, and the Supreme Court win26:05 – Giant puppets, rituals, and planning a white stag procession29:44 – Autonomy vs community: can you co-create and still be child-led?36:14 – Lewis’ kilt experiment: climate, agency, and unexpected advocacy43:54 – The hostess badge, patching crotches, and forest fashion48:00 – Books on the horizon and the future of the podcast🌲 Keywords: Dartmoor right to roam, Forest School podcast, folk traditions, Hunting the Earl of Rhone, giant puppets, child-led learning, community ritual, autonomy in education, whimsy and play, PhD research in play, forest fashion, utility kilt, patching clothes, woodland learning🔖 Hashtags:#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #RightToRoam #Dartmoor #ChildLedLearning #WhimsyMatters #CommunityRitual #ForestSchoolPodcast #GiantPuppets #PlayBasedLearning #LandAccess #NatureBasedEducation #FolkTraditions #EducationalAutonomy #UtilityKilt🌐 More Episodes & Support:Listen to more and access resources at ⁠www.theforestschoolpodcast.com⁠Support the show and join our community at ⁠www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast⁠For questions, feedback, or collaboration: ⁠[email protected]⁠

In this episode, Lewis and Wem dig deep into the concept of consistency—a term often upheld as sacred in education and parenting, but is it all it’s cracked up to be?They explore the tension between consistency of routine vs consistency of relationship, how being overly consistent can lead to masking (for both adults and children), and why the pressure to deliver the same experience every time is unrealistic—and possibly unhelpful.From donkeys at the sanctuary to dopamine in disrupted routines, this is a wide-ranging, honest conversation about autonomy, vulnerability, and the stories we tell ourselves about being “good” educators.Whether you’re new to Forest School or 10 years in, this one might just shift how you think about planning, presence, and being truly learner-centred.🧭 Topics Covered:Consistency of output vs consistency of intentionHow routine can become oppressiveThe moral undertones of “being consistent”Attachment, co-regulation & modelling emotional honestyWhy inconsistency can be a giftCultural pressures to be habit-forming machinesHow we frame expectations for ourselves and our learnersSoft skills, autonomy, and agency in outdoor educationReal talk about what consistency demands in unpaid labour🔗 Listen Here:🌲 Spotify → Forest School Podcast on Spotify🍏 Apple → Forest School Podcast on Apple🌐 Web → www.forestschoolpodcast.com📺 YouTube → Watch the episode on YouTube📬 Get In Touch:💬 Instagram: @forestschoolpodcast📧 Email: [email protected]📌 Tags & Keywords:#forestschool #outdooreducation #childledlearning #consistencyvsintention #processoverproduct #relationshipfirst #softskills #emotionalintelligence #naturebasedlearning #educationphilosophy #forestschoolleaders #neurodiversityaffirming #coachingnotcompliance #autonomyineducation #honestteaching #vulnerabilityineducation

In this episode, Lewis and Wem are joined by Justine from Curious and Kind Nature Play in Florida. The conversation began when all three spoke at a webinar hosted by Peter Gray and quickly turned into a shared curiosity around the tensions of tidying up in play-based education.This is not a how-to guide. It is a rich exploration of roles, expectations, neurodivergence, community care, and the invisible moral weight we place on children when it comes to cleaning up. Whether you model tidying, mandate it, ignore it entirely, or wrestle with it daily, this episode invites you to reflect deeply on what your approach communicates about power, responsibility, and play.🟩 Chapter timings00:00 Welcome and pizza oven distractions01:00 How Lewis and Justine connected02:00 Justine introduces Curious and Kind Nature Play05:00 Florida’s funding for home educators06:30 Structures that support flexibility and autonomy10:00 Opening the conversation on tidying12:00 Justine’s approach to winding down and cleaning up14:00 Community care and shared spaces16:00 When tidying up becomes adult-directed20:00 Individualism and shared responsibility22:00 Executive function and play endings25:00 Shifting roles as facilitators27:00 Play residue and resource placement30:00 Who defines tidy33:00 Visual cues and neurodivergence36:00 Long sessions and timing pressures38:00 Tidying as moral pressure or community practice40:00 Role of the facilitator and equity in expectations43:00 The notice and do approach48:00 When tidying inhibits play and creativity50:00 Regret, repair, and adult reflection53:00 Adult overwhelm and honest communication59:00 Pine needles and closing thoughts60:00 Where to find Justine and Curious and Kind

🌿 What Is Clean Language & Should You Use It Outdoors?In this introspective solo episode, Lewis reflects on Contempt to Curiosity by Caitlin Walker—an exploration of Clean Language, group metaphors, and truly non-judgemental communication.What begins as a quiet Friday morning in the woods becomes a deeply personal and practical unpacking of:What Clean Language actually is and where it came from 👂Why exploring someone’s “inner world” is powerful—and riskyHow metaphor can unify (or divide) groups 🌀Practical uses of Clean Language in Forest SchoolWhether this approach is clunky-but-useful—or core practice💬 Plus, Lewis shares a raw personal story of being on the receiving end of Clean Language coaching… and the surprising discomfort that followed.🌟 Sponsors: TENTSILE & Chris Holland🌲 TENTSILE – Create magical canopy spaces with TENTSILE’s world-famous hammock tents. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com🍃 Chris Holland – Discover Nature Connection & the 54-Plant Guide—perfect for Forest School leaders. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off at👉 https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast⏳ Episode Chapters00:00 – Intro, birdsong, forest stillness 🌳02:00 – Feeling isolated as a leader04:00 – Housekeeping & community shout-out06:00 – What is Clean Language? Who created it?08:30 – Metaphors, coaching & autonomy10:00 – The “clunky but useful” language tools13:00 – Forest School Association anecdote20:00 – What “Smell. Soil.” taught Lewis27:00 – What Clean Language missed in his response30:00 – Can metaphors create better group cohesion?33:00 – Why Forest School needs shared metaphors36:00 – Facilitating feelings, not just activities40:00 – Cocktail bars & metaphor-building 🍸44:00 – When “mycelial network” isn’t enough 🍄47:00 – Clean Language as a practice addon—not a necessity50:00 – Is this book for beginners or advanced practice?📚 Mentioned in This EpisodeContempt to Curiosity by Caitlin WalkerDavid Grove’s Clean LanguageNonviolent Communication (NVC)Forest School Association Strategy WeekendDeclarative language in outdoor education“Mycelial Network” (metaphor bingo!) 🍄💬 Join the Discussion🌱 What metaphor would your Forest School group use to describe itself?Do you already use metaphors in your practice—or avoid them entirely?We’d love to hear YOUR stories. Drop us a message on social media or email [email protected]🎧 Listen now:🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9

🌳 Forest School vs the Panopticon: Who’s Watching the Children?In this solo episode, Lewis dives deep into the haunting metaphor of the Panopticon—a 1700s prison designed for total surveillance—and how its legacy lives on in modern classrooms, school playgrounds, and even parenting styles.⚖️ From architectural control to digital surveillance, Lewis explores:What “total observation” does to a child’s sense of self 👁️Why today’s children may be observed from wake to sleepThe impact of surveillance on risk-taking, identity, and creativity 🎭How Forest School sites can either replicate or resist the PanopticonPractical ways to foster pockets of privacy in outdoor settings 🌲This is a big-thinking episode, inviting Forest School leaders, educators, and parents to ask:💭 How much observation is too much? And what happens when we let go?🌲 TENTSILE – Transform your site with TENTSILE’s innovative hammock tents. Perfect for Forest School adventures. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com🍃 Chris Holland – Discover Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide – a practical tool for outdoor learning. Get 15% off using code FORESTPOD at our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast00:00 – Intro & glorious sunshine ☀️02:00 – What is the Panopticon? History & design06:00 – Cuba, Castro & 3000 silences08:30 – How schools mirror prison architecture11:30 – Modern childhood as constant surveillance14:00 – Should children be allowed privacy?16:30 – When observation is helpful 👀18:30 – Teachers feeling watched too21:00 – Forest School vs classroom surveillance24:00 – Instagram vs authenticity in outdoor play 📸27:00 – Why privacy matters for relationships30:00 – Class sizes, hedges & playground control33:30 – What we give up in outdoor education35:00 – Personal reflection & closing thoughtsJeremy Bentham’s PanopticonThe Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read – Philippa Perry (referenced in context)Sarah Ockwell-Smith episode on digital surveillanceTENTSILE Hammock TentsChris Holland’s Plant Guide💡 Do children need privacy to grow? Or does supervision help them feel safe?Let us know your thoughts—comment on Spotify, YouTube or email us at [email protected].🎧 Find us everywhere:🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ChildhoodSurveillance #Panopticon #NatureConnection #ForestSchoolPodcast #ChildLedLearning #EducationalPhilosophy #PlayPrivacy #SlowEducation #AlternativeEducation #SafeRisk #ForestSchoolDesign🌟 Sponsors: TENTSILE & Chris Holland⏳ Episode Chapters📚 Mentioned in This Episode💬 Join the Conversation

This week, Lewis is solo in the woods reflecting on a big question: what makes a Forest School site feel alive with history? 🌿He explores the difference between groups that share memories and communities that carry history, drawing on stories, objects, rituals, and routines from nearly a decade of outdoor learning.This episode is packed with practical reflections for Forest School leaders:How to foster a living sense of community through storytellingThe power of leaving evidence of past playWhy your site doesn’t need to be “tidy” to be effectiveHow to embrace rituals that evolve, rather than enforceWhat it means to co-create history with childrenWhether you're building a new site or decades into your Forest School journey, this episode offers ideas to deepen your space’s soul. 🪵✨🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland🌲 TENTSILE – Hammock tents that transform your Forest School site into an unforgettable adventure. Durable, practical, and perfect for the outdoors. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com.🍃 Chris Holland – Enhance your nature knowledge with Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide—a treasure trove for Forest School educators. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off at our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast00:00 – Wonky intros & mic experiments 🎤02:00 – Rocking chairs, baby names & volunteer honouring04:00 – School sites vs embedded Forest School sites08:00 – The difference between group memories and community history12:30 – Inheriting play, space markers, and unsaid rituals18:00 – Nest building as evolving ritual 🌸23:00 – What counts as ‘true’ history in a play space?26:00 – Peer storytelling, deer legends & golden apples 🦌30:00 – Objects as story prompts: woodworking tables, tree carvings34:00 – Funerals for swings & retiring equipment37:00 – History as inclusion: offering belonging through time41:00 – The safety of being one story among many43:00 – Co-creating history, not enforcing itTENTSILE Hammock Tents – Use code ForestChildren10Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Use code FORESTPODBen Edge episode on rituals (search “rituals” in our back catalogue)💬 Share your thoughts on social media or email [email protected]🗣️ Send us a voice note via Instagram or Facebook!Find us everywhere:🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ForestSchoolPodcast #NaturePlay #GroupToCommunity #NatureConnection #CoCreatingHistory #StorytellingInTheWoods #PlayBasedLearning⏳ Episode Chapters📚 Mentioned in This Episode🎧 Like what you heard?

🎭 Are You Triggered by Play? Why It Matters.Ever watched children playing and felt uneasy about what was happening? Whether it’s rough-and-tumble, rule-breaking, or risky play, adults have deep-seated responses to certain types of play—often without realising it. But is our discomfort helping or hindering children’s learning?🌳 Key topics in this episode:What does it mean to be “triggered” by play? 🧠Why adults react emotionally to certain play types 🔥Rough play, risky play, and rule-breaking: the big three ⚖️How our own childhood experiences shape our responses 🎒Tools for staying grounded and supporting all play 🌱This episode explores how Forest School leaders, teachers, and parents can manage their instincts and create a space where play can thrive.🌲 TENTSILE – Take your outdoor adventures to the next level with TENTSILE's innovative hammock tents! Designed for Forest School leaders & outdoor educators, these tree tents create magical outdoor experiences. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com.🍃 Chris Holland – Love nature? Get Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide, packed with essential plant ID tips. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off via our exclusive affiliate link: chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast.🎤 00:00 – Intro: Where’s Wem? (And course updates!)🌱 04:00 – The Facebook video that sparked this discussion🛑 08:00 – Why adults “shut down” certain play types⚖️ 12:30 – The difference between pro-social & anti-social play🚀 18:00 – How our own childhood shapes our play responses🔄 22:00 – The power of “forecasting” vs. “overreacting”🎭 30:00 – How to check yourself & avoid shutting down play🌳 40:00 – Building a Forest School space where all play is valid🌍 TENTSILE Hammock Tents – Use ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com🍃 Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Use FORESTPOD for 15% off at chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast📖 Kindling Playwork – A deep dive into playwork & self-reflection🎥 Watch this episode on YouTube: [Insert Link]💡 What type of play makes YOU uncomfortable? Have you ever stepped in too soon? Tell us in the comments or email [email protected]!🎧 Listen & subscribe:🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ChildLedLearning #RiskyPlay #NaturePlay #ForestSchoolPodcast #AlternativeEducation #SelfDirectedLearning #Playwork🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland⏳ Episode Chapters & Timings📚 Resources & Links Mentioned💬 Join the Conversation!

Ever dreamed of buying your own woodland? 🌲 In this episode, we dive into Sandi Toksvig’s Great British Woodland Revival and what it really takes to restore a forest. From unexpected costs (£500 for EVERYTHING?!) to the emotional connection of managing land, we break down what this show got right—and what it left out.🎒 Key topics in this episode:The realities of woodland management (spoiler: it’s expensive!) 💰Why Sandi’s journey isn’t just for TV—it’s an education in itself 📺How experts like ‘Pete the Pond’ and tree surgeons bring woodlands back to life 🌊🪵The emotional connection of land stewardship & why it matters ❤️Should humans be kept out of woodlands for conservation? 🤔If you’ve ever thought about owning or managing a woodland, this episode is for you! 🌿🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland🌲 TENTSILE – Transform your outdoor adventures with TENTSILE's incredible hammock tents! Perfect for Forest School leaders & outdoor educators. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com.🍃 Chris Holland – Want to connect with nature? Get Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide, packed with essential plant ID tips. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off via our exclusive affiliate link: chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast.⏳ Episode Chapters & Timings🎤 00:00 – Janky recording setups & rocking chair podcasting 🎙️📺 02:00 – What is Sandi Toksvig’s woodland show really about?🌳 05:00 – Buying a woodland: dream vs. reality💰 10:00 – Why does every woodland project cost £500?!🦉 15:30 – Meet the experts: pond builders, tree surgeons & bat ecologists🌿 22:00 – Should humans be kept out of woodlands for conservation?🏡 30:00 – What to know before buying or managing land🤔 40:00 – Would we have done things differently in our own woodland?📚 Resources & Links Mentioned📺 Sandi Toksvig’s Great British Woodland Revival (Channel 4)🌍 TENTSILE Hammock Tents – Use ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com🍃 Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Use FORESTPOD for 15% off at https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=lwilouig🎥 Watch this episode on YouTube:💬 Join the Conversation!💡 Would YOU buy a woodland? What’s your dream restoration project? Tell us in the comments or email us at [email protected]!🎧 Listen & subscribe:🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9#WoodlandRestoration #ForestSchoolPodcast #NatureConnection #OutdoorEducation #SandiToksvig #GreatBritishWoodland #WoodlandManagement #Rewilding