Episode 280 with Désirée Zamorano, Author of Dispossessed, and Crafter of Poignancy, a Thorough Chronicler of and Student of Los Angeles History and Moral Voice for Progress and Learning from History

Notes and Links to Vanessa Saunders’ Work       Vanessa Saunders is a writer living in New Orleans. She teaches as a Professor of Practice at Loyola University New Orleans. She was the editor-in-chief of Helium Journal from 2013 to 2016. Her writing has appeared in Writer's Digest, Writer's Chronicle, Seneca Review, Sycamore Review, Los Angeles Review,  Nat. Brut, Entropy, PANK, Passages North, Stockholm Review of Literature and other journals.​​ She is at work on a novel of magical realism about whiteness and a book-length prose poem about the ethics of authorship.  Buy The Flat Woman   Vanessa's Website At about 1:45, Vanessa recommends places to buy her book, including Baldwin Books At about 2:55, Vanessa responds to Pete’s question about her expectations for the Pub Day and beyond versus the realities At about 5:20, the two discuss Kafka’s Metamorphosis and his parables and connections to Vanessa’s The Flat Woman, as well as absurdities and allegory At about 9:30, Vanessa gives background on her early reading and writing, including her grandfather’s and Sylvia Plath’s influences, and Anne Carson’s influence on The Flat Woman At about 13:30, Vanessa explains the unique British library system At about 15:25, Vanessa responds to Pete’s questions about At about 16:35, Vanessa mentions Kelly Link, Sarah Rose Etter, Aimee Bender, and Hadriana in my Dreams as contemporary writers and writing that inspires her At about 18:20, Pete and Vanessa shout out the generosity and greatness of Aimee Bender, and Vanessa talks about meetings with inspiring writers At about 19:20, Pete shouts out Antonya Nelson’s “In the Land of Men” for the 1,987,231 time in Chills at Will history At about 19:55, The two discuss the book’s epigraph and seeds for the book At about 22:40, Vanessa expands upon stewardship and community and the environment in the formulation of her book At about 24:20, Pete wonders about Vanessa’s decision to avoid naming her characters At about 26:40, Pete asks Vanessa  At about 29:10, the two discuss the lengthy “setups” that are chapter titles, or “headlines” At about 32:20, “leaky boundaries” and the family dynamic, including the absent father, are discussed At about 33:35, “Terrorism” and government cover-up in the book and its couching is discussed; Vanessa talks about birds as “indicator species,” as she learned from a group of “elite ornithologists” (!!!) with whom she lived At about 36:40, Vanessa talks about perpetual archetypes and storylines for “female villainy” At about 37:40, Bird grief and research and animals as stand-ins for humans as discussed in the book is explored by Vanessa At about 41:10, Vanessa, in explaining her views of animals and things and dominion, references a wonderful Louise Gluck line  At about 42:35, Pete and Vanessa discuss Bay Area history, anthropology. and its effects on their mindsets and writing At about 44:00, The two talk about the “patriarch[al]” POPS Cola, and the protagonist’s early life after her mother is arrested and convicted  At about 45:45, Vanessa expands on the patriarchal society and the 2024 election’s connections to the systemic misogyny on display in the book At about  49:50, The protagonist, depicted 10 years as “The woman,” and Part II are described, as well as the “chaotic aunt” and more ugly realities that confront the woman At about 51:45, Vanessa cites inspiration from an interview with Toni Morrison regarding family alienation  At about 53:10, Vanessa explores connections between humor and speculative fiction At about 54:10, The woman’s earliest interactions with and attractions to the man are discussed At about 55:10, Vanessa responds to Pete’s question about the man being drawn to Elvis, with a trip down memory lane of a San Francisco that may no longer exist  At about 59:20, Vanessa talks about setting the woman as working at the very company that has imprisoned her mother  At about 1:01:25, Vanessa responds to Pete’s question about the grisly displays of hurt and dead animals, and the two discuss ideas of entertainment and willful (or not) ignorance about the brutality in Gaza and climate change At about 1:05:00, Pete complements Vanessa for humor on the page and asks if the man has “discovered the manosphere”  At about 1:08:35, Vanessa talks about social justice being “commodified” At about 1:10:40, Vanessa talks about initial hesitat[ion] in depicting the man as having some assorted wisdom, along with many horrible traits At about 1:11:40, Vanessa discusses a famous writer, who is not related to her :(  At about 1:13:00, Another Maurice Carlos Ruffin shoutout At about 1:14:20, Movie actors for the book’s characters! At about 1:16:10, “You are hearing me talk”-Al Gore You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. This week, his conversation with Episode 270 guest Jason De León is up on the website. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, his DIY podcast and his extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content! This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran. I have added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.     The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 285 with The Philharmonik, Episode 58 guest, vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, lyricist, music producer and genre defining artist. Recently, he has been nationally and globally recognized after winning the 2023 American Song writer contest and NPR’s 2024 Tiny Desk Contest for his song “What’s It All Mean?” The episode marks the one-year anniversary of his NPR Tiny Desk Contest win. This will be released on May 16.  

  Notes and Links to Jason Bailey’s Work        Jason Bailey is a film critic, author, and podcaster. His work has appeared in The Playlist, The New York Times, Vulture, Vice, Rolling Stone, and Slate, among others. He is the editor-in-chief of Crooked Marquee, the former film editor at Flavorwire, and the author of six books-the most recent is Gandolfini: Jim, Tony, and the Life of a Legend. He lives in the Bronx with his wife and two daughters. Buy Gandolfini: Jim, Tony, and the Life of a Legend   Jason's Website   NPR Interview Re: Gandolfini     At about 2:25, Jason talks about book events and good places to buy his book, included Matt Zoller Seitz’s dynamic website  At about 4:00, Jason talks about the incomparable Edoardo Ballerini as his audiobook narrator At about 7:05, Jason talks about his cinematic and reading influences since childhood; he tells a story of seeing “At the Movies” and becoming a cinephile and movie criticism fan At about 12:10, Jason responds to Pete’s question about career thoughts in his adolescent years revolving around moviemaking/writing about movies At about 15:10, Jason talks about his approach in watching movies and whether or not he can watch a movie while “cleansing his mind” and not watching for “work” At about 16:40, Pete asks Jason about him going to movie theaters often At about 19:15, Jason responds to Pete’s question about favorite movie(s)/movies that explain his aesthetic, and the two discuss The Godfather Part I and Part II (and Part III!) At about 23:35, Jason talks about being “sympathetic and empathetic and complex” in his depiction of James Gandolfini At about 27:30, Jason shares feedback he received from Sopranos crew members and Drea DeMatteo in particular about James Gandolfini’s complicated legacy At about 29:50, Jason talks about how his moviemaking history makes him more sympathetic in reviewing movies   At about 33:45, Jason explains his background as a fan of James Gandolfini in connection to his earlier roles and his Sopranos role At about 38:50, Jason and Pete talk about post-Sopranos roles for James Gandolfini, typecasting, and delivery for iconic and moving lines At about 40:35, Jason gives background on James Gandolfini’s view of the acting life and the importance of actors At about 43:30, Jason responds to Pete’s questions about James Gandolfini’s Italian identity At about 44:40, Pete and Jason discuss James Gandolfini’s real-life and lack of real-life organized crime connections and Tony Soprano-esque accent At about 46:10, Jason tells an interesting, seemingly untold, story about James Gandolfini and dropping out of a Mafia movie At about 47:50, Pete shares a Sammy “The Bull” Gravano story and Jason talks about James Gandolfini choosing roles to “put the last nail in that Tony Soprano coffin” At about 50:15, The two discuss the haunting of James Gandolfini balanced with the great role of Tony Soprano At about 53:20, Pete uses a supposed “jump the shark” moment to ask Jason about James Gandolfini being incredibly hard on himself  At about 55:25, Jason comments on the dichotomy between James Gandolfini’s incredibly selfless, and sometimes selfish, behavior At about 58:00, The two reflect on a sense of seeming-contentment and fading health At about 1:00:00, Jason responds to Pete’s questions about “treading lightly” regarding revelations and sympathetic coverage of such a beloved figure At about 1:02:00, The two discuss revisiting The Sopranos dream scenes and the famous last scene after James Gandolfini’s death At about 1:03:00, the two discuss the last scene(s) shot for The Sopranos At about 1:04:00, Enough Said and its poignancy is discussed in terms of the potential of James Gandolfini’s acting range At about 1:07:15, Jason describes the “gift” that is the final quote in the book, from Robert Iler At about 1:08:00, Jason shares contact info and buying info for his book, from Abrams Books        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he’s @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where I’m @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both my YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Episode 270 guest Jason De León is up on the website this week. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting his one-man show, his DIY podcast and his extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project, a DIY operation, and Pete would love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 284 with Vanessa Saunders, a Professor of Practice at Loyola University New Orleans. Her writing has appeared in Sycamore Review, Los Angeles Review, Stockholm Review of Literature and other journals. Her novel, The Flat Woman, won FC2's Ronald Sukenick Innovative Fiction Prize.    The episode airs on May 6.

Notes and Links to Emely Rumble’s Work          Emely Rumble, LCSW, is a distinguished licensed clinical social worker, school social worker, and seasoned biblio/psychotherapist with over 14 years of professional experience. Committed to making mental health services more accessible, Emely specializes in the transformative practice of bibliotherapy. Passionate about advocating for the integration of creative arts in psychotherapy, mental well-being, and self-improvement, Emely champions the social model of disability and embraces a neurodiversity-affirming therapeutic approach. A distinguished member of The National Association of Poetry Therapy, Emely's work has been featured in respected publications such as Parents Magazine, ‘School Library Journal’, Bold Journey Magazine, BronxNet News, and The Bronx Is Reading. Emely shares her expertise beyond traditional avenues through @Literapy_NYC, her dedicated platform on Instagram, TikTok, and Podia, where she provides valuable educational content. Having earned her undergraduate degree from Mount Holyoke College and completed her social work degree at Smith College School for Social Work, Emely resides in the Bronx with her husband, two children, and her psychiatric service dog, Montana. She embodies a holistic and compassionate approach to mental health and well-being. Buy Bibliotherapy in the Bronx   Emely's Website     At about 2:10, Emely talks about the work and process involved as the book is about to be published At about 3:20, Emely talks about early feedback and her dynamic audiobook At about 4:35, Emely gives a brief summary of the book and talks about where to buy the book and where to find her online At about 10:30, Emely talks about “escapism” and “realism” and  At about 13:50, Emely responds to Pete’s question about her reading of the Bible and connections to her grandmother as a healer and a Christian At about 17:15, Maya Angelou, Sister Souljah are among those Emely shouts out as formative and transformative writers, especially in her “adultified” youth At about 20:30, The two fanboy/girl about Maya Angelou and I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings At about 21:30, bell hooks, Audre Lorde, Alexis Gumbs are cited as some inspiring writers for Emely At about 24:40, Emely responds to Pete’s questions about the pivotal reading from her grandmother’s funeral and seeds for the book; she also shouts out a great editor in Nirmala Nataraj At about 29:25, Natalie Gutierrez and her foreword are discussed-books as “communal medicine” At about 30:30, Emely responds to Pete’s questions about bibliotherapy and the intellect and the heart in concert At about 32:35, Emely responds to Pete’s questions about what she learned from her aunt’s schizophrenia and the ways in which she was treated and ideas of community and racism  At about 38:20, Emely gives background on early days of implementing bibliotherapy with patients and more connections to her aunt At about 44:20, Ned Ashton and Sonny Corinthos shout outs! At about 45:15, Pete asks Emely to define/describe bibliotherapy At about 45:50, The two discuss the great Ms. Parkins and Strega Nona and fairy tales and how “childish” books can work so well with adults  At about 50:30, Making a Godfather II reference (obvi), Pete asks about Emely’s view on fiction and nonfiction and narratives in prescribing her books; Emely cites an interesting mindset of books as “mirrors, windows, and sliding glass doors,” as posited by Dr. Rudine Sims Bishop At about 57:10, Emely responds to Pete’s question about what a successful nonfiction prescription  At about 1:00:50, Emely talks about intake for bibliotherapy  At about 1:01:40, The two discuss Andrew Carnegie and problematic authors  At about 1:05:35, Mayte and her story that involves emotional resonance and intersectionality is discussed  At about 1:07:40, Emely expands on ideas of learning and empathy that happen with therapists and clients At about 1:13:00, Dr. Sadie P. Delaney is shouted out by Emely Rumble as a hero whom she learned about in her book research-The “Godmother of Bibliotherapy”    You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he’s @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he's @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Episode 270 guest Jason De León is up on the website this week. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting his one-man show, his DIY podcast and his extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran. Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project, a DIY operation, and Pete would love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 283 with Jason Bailey, a film critic, author, and podcaster whose work has appeared in The New York Times, Vulture, Vice, Rolling Stone, and Slate, among others. He is the editor-in-chief of Crooked Marquee, and the author of five books. The episode goes live this evening, April 29, which is also Pub Day for his exciting new book, Gandolfini, about the legendary actor, James Gandolfini.  

Notes and Links to Alexander Chee’s Work          Alexander Chee is the bestselling author of the novels Edinburgh and The Queen of the Night, and the essay collection How To Write An Autobiographical Novel, all from Mariner Books. A contributing editor at The New Republic and an editor at large at VQR, his essays and stories have appeared in The New York Times Magazine, T Magazine, The Sewanee Review, and the 2016 and 2019 Best American Essays. He was guest-editor for The Best American Essays of 2022.    He is a 2021 United States Artists Fellow, a 2021 Guggenheim Fellow in Nonfiction, and the recipient of a Whiting Award, a NEA Fellowship, an MCCA Fellowship, the Randy Shilts Prize in gay nonfiction, the Paul Engle Prize, the Lambda Editor’s Choice Prize, and residency fellowships from the MacDowell Colony, the VCCA, Leidig House, Civitella Ranieri and Amtrak.    He is a full professor of English and Creative Writing at Dartmouth College and lives in Vermont. Buy How To Write an Autobiographical Novel   Alexander's Website   Book Review for How To Write an Autobiographical Novel from The New York Times   At about 2:00, Alexander details his Amtrak residency, later written about in The New Yorker At about 6:00, Alexander outlines some interesting characters that he met during his Amtrak residency  At about 12:00, Alexander reflects on a book project inspired by an interesting encounter with a former detective and British and American sensibilities  At about 16:30, Pete shares his own Amtrak story, possible fodder for essays and short stories, as Alexander remarks on “immediate friendship”  At about 18:50, Alexander talks about upcoming novel and short story projects and the process of picking a title; he recounts how he arrived at his essay collection’s title, through a Buzzfeed publication  At about 26:30, Alexander highlights Kirkus Review naming How to Write an Autobiographical Novel one  At about 27:35, Alexander gives background on his essay collection’s cover photo At about 34:10, Alexander talks about the composition of the previous essay collection and his upcoming one, with regards to placement and focuses on his “rose garden”- “The Rosary”-essay’s development At about 39:00, Alexander responds to Pete’s questions about the order of the essays in the collections and any throughlines-Garnette Cadogan and Naomi Gibbs are shouted out At about 43:40, Alexander talks about a manuscript that he has been working At about 44:45, Pete is complimentary of Alexander’s “The Rosary” essay, and Alexander tells a story of an interested and poignant conversation with   At about 48:00, Pete shouts  At about 49:00, Pete and Alexander talk about the essay collection’s first piece, and Alexander talks about being “Alejandro from Oaxaca” for a short time-he references Yiyun Li’s powerful essay, “To Speak is to Blunder” At about 55:10, Pete compliments Alexander’s powerful advocacy work and asks him about perspective and time, and how Alexander looks back at the essays from the collection so many years later (for some of the essays) At about 1:02:00, In talking about modern protest and activist culture, mutual aid, etc., Alexander shouts out Sarah Thankam Mathews’ powerful All This Could Be Different At about 1:04:30, Alexander discusses a dynamic class that he has mentored at Dartmouth At about 1:05:30, Alexander responds to Pete’s questions about what fiction allows him to do with his writing At about 1:06:30, Alexander reflects on ideas of catharsis in his writing      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Episode 270 guest Jason De León is up on the website this week. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, his DIY podcast and his extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran. Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project, a DIY operation, and Pete would love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 282 with Emely Rumble, a licensed clinical social worker, school social worker, and seasoned biblio/psychotherapist who specializes in bibliotherapy, the use of literature and expressive writing to heal. Pub Day and episode air day are April 29 for her wonderful book, Bibliotherapy in The Bronx.

Notes and Links to Désirée Zamorano’s Work      Born and raised in Los Angeles, Désirée Zamorano is the previous author of novels like The Amado Women and Human Cargo. Zamorano heavily focuses on the issues of invisibility, injustice and inequity in her books while also teaching linguistic and cultural diversity at Cal State Long Beach.     Buy Dispossessed   Désirée's Website   Article about Dispossessed for Pasadena Weekly At about 3:10, Desiree gives ordering information for The Dispossessed and her social media and contact information   At about 4:30, Desiree talks about an exciting 2026 publication    At about 5:10, Desiree gives background on her early reading and language life, and how her identity has been shaped throughout the years, influenced by family and larger societal forces   At about 8:40, Pete and Desiree discuss connections between American racism in different times and the events that inspired her own book   At about 10:00, Desiree provides feedback on seeds for her book   At about 12:30, Desiree talks about formative and informative books and writers from her childhood and adolescence    At about 13:35, Desiree shouts out Kate Atkinson and David Mitchell’s Cloud Atlas and other contemporary favorites   At about 14:35, the two explore the book’s opening note, and Desiree shares stunning (or not stats) about Mexican and Mexican-American “repatriation” in the 1930s and 1940s    At about 16:00, Desiree talks about Manzanar and Japanese incarceration and coalitions who have fought to have the ugly history of the incarceration shared   At about 17:25, The two discuss the book’s opening scene at the beach and the book’s inciting incidents   At about 18:40, Desiree gives background on her reasoning for making the book’s opening so action-packed and connections to a chilling quote   At about 19:50, Pete and Desiree chart Manuel’s first years after his parents are taken, and characters and situations that govern Manuel’s life   At about 23:15, Desiree responds to Pete’s questions about Manuel’s surrogate mother, Amparo and depictions of Christianity with connections to Desiree’s own family   At about 26:00, The two discuss reasons as to why Manuel decides to leave high school    At about 28:10, Desiree gives background on sundown towns and talks about misconceptions of racism in our country’s history and all needing to “do the work” to understand    At about 31:15, Pete recounts a stunning (or not so stunning) fact about racism in CA and Rodney King   At about 31:55, Desiree responds to Pete’s questions about depictions of Latino soldiers, particularly in WWII   At about 33:25, Pete and Desiree discuss Manuel’s early work experience, and Desiree expands upon union histories, especially in LA   At about 36:00, Decade of Betrayal, Anything but Mexican and Whitewashed Adobe are discussed as thorough and key research used by Desiree for the book   At about 37:30, Pete asks Desiree about important touches in the book, and she provides important histories of whiteness in American and how birth certificates were filled out   At about 41:00, The two discuss the impending razing of Chavez Ravine in the book, and hope and hopelessness for Manuel-Desiree references another great book with great research, From Out of the Shadows by Vicki Ruiz    At about 44:30, Desiree responds to Pete’s question about crafting a emotional and good man in Manuel    At about 47:00, Pete is highly complimentary of the ways that Desiree uses light touches and writes about fatherhood and motherhood so honestly   At about 50:00, Pete asks Desiree how she knew the book was finished     You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. This week, his conversation with Episode 270 guest Jason De León is up on the website. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, his DIY podcast and his extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.     The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 281 with Alexander Chee, who is the bestselling author of the novels Edinburgh and The Queen of the Night, and the essay collection How To Write An Autobiographical Novel. He was the 2021 US Artists Fellow and Guggenheim Fellow in Nonfiction, and he is full professor of English and Creative Writing at Dartmouth.     The episode airs on April 22.

Notes and Links to Jon Hickey’s Work        Jon Hickey is a writer from Minnesota. He earned an MFA from Cornell University and was a Stegner Fellow in fiction at Stanford University. His short stories have appeared in numerous journals such as Virginia Quarterly Review, Gulf Coast, and the Massachusetts Review, among other places. He is a member of the Lac du Flambeau Band of Chippewa Indians (Anishinaabe). He lives in San Francisco with his wife and two sons. Buy Big Chief   Jon Hickey's Website   Book Review for Big Chief in San Francisco Chronicle   At about 1:35, Jon talks about his mindset and early feedback for his novel as Pub Day approaches  At about 3:25, Jon gives out social media and contact info and talks about book events that are upcoming  At about 5:15, “Midwest/Minnesota Nice” is discussed  At about 8:45, Jon mentions exciting advance praise for Big Chief At about 9:45, Jon gives background on language loss in his family, as his grandparents were the “boarding school generation” At about 11:30, Jon talks about how Anishinaabe functions as a language, and how it is both in his DNA and “mysterious”  At about 13:15, John traces his childhood reading, including Stephen King as a transformative writer At about 17:20, John chronicles inspiring and thrilling writers and works and the wonderful writing programs he was part of At about 18:20, Jon charts the huge imprint that Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man has left on him At about 22:00, Kyle Edwards and his Small Ceremonies, as well as Kate Folk and her Sky Daddy , are mentioned as contemporary works/writers who thrill and challenge Jon At about 24:20, Pete lays out some of Big Chief’s exposition At about 25:55, Jon responds to Pete asking about how Jon pictures the book’s narrator and protagonist At about 29:00, Mack, the tribal president in the book, is described At about 30:00, Jon responds to Pete wondering about motivations for Mitch related to bullying and feelings of being an outsider from his childhood At about 32:15, Ideas of power in politics are discussed At about 34:10, Ideas of authenticity and genuineness and morality are discussed, in connection to politics and voting in the book and beyond, especially regarding Joe Beck At about 35:40, Jon riffs on what he kept in mind while writing the book, with regard to moralizing as an author At about 39:00, Jon responds to Pete’s question about blood quantum and similar ideas and how the discourses have changed or not At about 42:40, Jon talks about tropes and irony and “outward signs” of being indigenous, and how that is reflected in his book’s cover and in society at large At about 43:40, The title and its inspiration is discussed   At about 45:50, Jon reads a representative excerpt that speaks of themes of belonging, and Pete and Jon further discuss ideas of childhood’s impacts on adulthood At about 47:15, Jon discusses the significance of Mack’s protection of Mitch, and Mitch’s self-esteem and power’s connection to cynicism At about 51:10, Mack and his bearing and his motivations are discussed At about 52:00, a pivotal and tragic event-Mitch’s mother’s death-and the subsequent fire vigil is discussed  At about 55:45, The book’s upcoming election and sabotage and Gloria are discussed, with a tip of the cat to Harvey Keitel in calling Mitch a “fixer” At about 1:00:20, Mitch and his cynicism and his work on the campaign are explored, with connections to current political climates  At about 1:02:15, the platforms of the two candidates and ideas of banishment from the tribe are considered  At about 1:05:50, Pete wonders if Mack is a Trump-ish figure, and Jon reflects on how he has tried to write about identity through tribal politics  At about 1:10:00, Pete and Jon ponder the “void” within Mitch and talk about the local political and larger political world collide  At about 1:12:05, Pete compliments the “beautiful” ending, and the two discuss the Sopranos ending, and Jon discusses his mindset in crafting his book’s ending At about 1:14:40, Jon outlines changes in the book’s previous permutations  At about 1:16:40, Jon defines what is what for him a “work of art” You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he’s @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he’s @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Episode 270 guest Jason De León is up on the website this week. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and my extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content! This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran. Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 280 with Jahmal Mayfield, who writes gritty crime novels that touch on large social issues. His stellar SMOKE KINGS was inspired by Kimberly Jones’ passionate viral video, “How can we win?” The episode airs on April 15.  

Notes and Links to Kevin Nguyen’s Work       Kevin Nguyen is the features editor at The Verge, previous senior editor at GQ; has written for New York Magazine, The New York Times, The Paris Review and elsewhere the author of New Waves and the novel Mỹ Documents, which has today, April 8, as Pub Day. Buy My Documents   Kevin Nguyen's Website Book Review for My Documents in Los Angeles Times   At about 1:20, Kevin talks about his mindset and feedback around My Documents as the book nears Pub Day At about 3:00, Kevin provides info on his publishing company, places to buy his book, and book launch events, as well as social media/contact info At about 6:15, Kevin gives background on his language and reading history  At about 9:50, Kevin charts the reading and writers who put him on the path to becoming a writer himself  At about 13:15-Tracy O’Neill and Alexander Chee shout outs! At about 14:55, Kevin shouts out some beloved contemporary writers like Vauhini Vara, Jon Hickey, Darrell Campbell,  At about 17:25, Kevin gives a summary of the book and describes seeds for his book, with “echoes” of Japanese incarceration during WWII, among other catalysts  At about 19:05, Kevin responds to Pete's questions about John McCain’s connections to the book and its epigraph At about 21:35, The two trace the book’s exposition and the narrator’s grandmother’s choices in emigrating from Vietnam At about 24:20, Kevin talks about Ursula’s experiences in the book and connections to second-generations from immigrant families and passing down family stories  At about 26:05, Kevin waxes poetic on Babe: Pig in the City, and its connections to the book At about 30:00, Kevin talks about building characters who are well-rounded At about 31:10, the two trace Jen and Alvin and formative experiences in the book, including Alvin’s being pushed into learning more Asian-American history At about 34:20, Kevin responds to Pete’s questions about expectations subverted   You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he’s @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he’s @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Episode 265 guest Carvell Wallace is up on the website this week. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and my extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content! This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran. Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 279 with Jon Hickey, a member of the Lac du Flambeau Band of Chippewa Indians, whose short stories have appeared in numerous journals such as Virginia Quarterly Review and the Massachusetts Review, among others. His highly-anticipated novel, Big Chief, is out today, April 8.  The episode airs today, April 8.  

Notes and Links to Douglas J. Weatherford’s Work       Doug was born in Salt Lake City but grew up in Statesboro, Georgia, where his father taught German at Georgia Southern University. Doug loves to read, travel, and ride bicycles and motorcycles. He graduated from BYU in 1988 (BA Spanish) and the Pennsylvania State University in 1997 (PhD Latin American Literature). He has been a professor at BYU since 1995. Doug’s research and teaching emphases include Latin American literature and film, representations of the period of Discovery and Conquest, and Mexico at mid-Century (1920–1968, with particular focus on Rosario Castellanos and Juan Rulfo). His latest are new translations of Pedro Páramo and The Burning Plain.   Buy Pedro Páramo (English Translation)   Buy Pedro Páramo (En Español)    Doug's BYU Webpage   New York Times Book Review of Pedro Páramo by Valeria Luiselli   At about 2:15, Doug talks about his “journey” to becoming a professor of Latin-American Literature and Film, with regard to his early language and reading backgrounds At about 6:00, Doug talks about his main focus in teaching over the years At about 7:15, The two discuss linguistics classes At about 8:30, Doug responds to Pete’s questions about texts and writers who have resonated with his students  At about 10:30, Doug reflects on Jorge Luis Borges’ work and potential for teachability  At about 11:35, The two talk about translations of Rulfo’s titles At about 13:30, Doug gives a primer on the collection El Llano en llamas and its various translations  At about 16:40, Doug emphasizes the need to “follow in Rulfo’s footsteps” in translating the famous story “No Oyes Ladrar los Perros” At about 20:15, Doug responds to Pete’s question about Juan Rulfo’s evolving reputation/legacy in Mexico At about 24:15, Pete shares compliments and blurbs for Doug’s Pedro Páramo translation and Pete and Doug talk about Gabriel Garcia Marquez’s important Foreword  At about 27:20, Doug gives background on screenplays done for Rulfo’s work by Marquez and towering respect for Rulfo’s work, especially Pedro Páramo  At about 28:20, The two talk about Pedro Páramo’s movie adaptations and challenges in adapting the work with connection to older characters  At about 31:55, Pete and Doug reflect on key archetypes and connections featured in the first line of  Pedro Páramo  At about 35:00, Doug gives background on his decision-making that affected his translations, including the laser-focus on the book’s first line At about 41:00, The two discuss the book’s exposition, such as it in a chronologically-unique book, including the book’s first narrator’s role At about 42:55, Doug discusses the connections in the book: Citizen Kane and Pedro Páramo, as well as Hernán Cortes and Pedro Páramo  At about 46:30, Doug talks about La Lllorona and Malinche and Páramo connections At about 49:30, Doug gives background on Pedro's son, Miguel and Father Renteria and ideas of betrayal and Biblical archetypes At about 52:35, Themes of sin and afterlife, including purgatory, are discussed, as Doug gives background on Rulfo’s “conflicted” views regarding Catholicism  At about 55:30, Doug goes into greater depth about the links between Citizen Kane and Pedro Páramo At about 59:45, Doug responds to Pete’s question about  At about 1:02:00, Doug responds to Pete’s question about Rulfo’s treatment of Mexican “Indians” At about 1:04:20, Hope and misogyny as a theme in the novel are discussed, and Doug discusses the 2024 Rodrigo Prieto Pedro Páramo film At about 1:09:40, Doug “puts a spin” on the novel’s ending At about 1:15:45, Doug gives book buying information for his translations of Rulfo’s work   You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. My conversation with Episode 270 guest Jason De León is up on the website this week. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, his DIY podcast and his extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content! This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran. I have added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.     The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 278 with Kevin Nguyen, features editor at The Verge, previous senior editor at GQ. He has written for New York Magazine, The New York Times, The Paris Review and elsewhere, and is the author of New Waves and the novel Mỹ Documents, which has April 8, the same day the episode airs, as its Pub Day.

Notes and Links to Donna Minkowitz’s Work         Donna Minkowitz is a writer of fiction and memoir who author Mary Gaitskill has celebrated as “original, energetic, witty, and meaty.” Andrew Solomon dubbed her “utterly entrancing… a writer with breathtakingly fluent language.” She is also the author of the fantasy-influenced memoir Growing Up Golem and the memoir Ferocious Romance, about being an openly lesbian reporter covering the Christian right undercover. Growing Up Golem was a finalist for both a Lambda Literary Award and for the Publishing Triangle’s Judy Grahn Nonfiction Award, and Ferocious Romance won a Lambda Literary Award. Donna, a former columnist for the Village Voice and The Advocate, has also written for the New York Times Book Review, The Nation, Salon, Slate, and New York magazine.    DONNAVILLE, her first novel and third book, was recently published by Indolent Books. Buy Donnaville   Donna's Website   Book Review for Donnaville from Kirkus Reviews   At about 2:05, Donna provides background on her formative reading and writing years  At about 3:40, Pete and Donna talk about the benefits of reading works a bit too old for them At about 5:05, Donna responds to Pete’s questions about the Torah and how its stories affected her writing At about 6:30, Donna talks about formative and transformative writers, including poets and Greek mythology At about 8:05, Donna responds to Pete’s questions about representation in discussing the significance of Sappho’s work At about 10:25, Donna discusses the nuances of the word “queer” and generational usages  At about 14:00, Pete and Donna stan Honor Thy Father by Gay Talese, which receives a shout out in Donnaville At about 17:20, Donna expands on writers who inspired her as a high school and college student; she talks about the complicated legacy and work of Tolkien  At about 21:30, Pete asks Donna and how the detail shown in Donnaville connects to her work as an esteemed journalist  At about 23:40, Donna talks about her undercover journalism work, including a memorable white nationalism conference and purported former Olympic hopeful At about 26:40, Donna talks about the book’s opening scene and connections to her real life, with regard to therapy and therapists and ways of finding growth At about 31:55, Pete describes the book’s exposition and compliments Donna’s  At about 34:05, Donna cites Denise Levertov’s and Delmore Schwartz’s (“Narcissus”) work as inspiration for her book featuring a city inside her mind; Pete cites another wonderful Schwartz text, “In Dreams Begin Responsibilities” At about 36:40, Donna talks about Foucault and resistance in connection to an evocative line from her book At about 37:20, Donna expands upon how there are two characters in the book who are not pieces of her, and she explains the significance of Harlequin in the book At about 41:45, Donna responds to Pete’s question about the lying nature of Harlequin  At about 44:15, Donna and Pete explore ideas of connection and confusion between abusers and their young victims At about 47:50, Donna talks about early “action” that Donna in the book is urged to take At about 49:40, Pete highlights a beautiful quote regarding the “sacred divine” and Donna talks about expectations of hurt At about 50:30, The two discuss the contradictions of the book’s jailer, and Donna further discusses ideas of shame At about 53:25, Donna expands on how she sees parts of her life and family in certain characters in the book At about 54:40, Pete shouts out a story, William Carlos Willams’ “The Use of Force,” that explores ideas of sadism in similar ways as Donnaville  At about 55:50, Donna muses over ideas of self-care, emotional regulation, and structure in our lives featured in the book At about 57:35, Pete gives details about the book’s main focus, and Donna responds to his observations about Donnaville as “a happily queer book” as she also expands upon pleasures found in the book At about 1:02:05, Pete cites traumas alluded to in the book and a deep quote about traumas emerging in people’s lives At about 1:04:10, Donna ponders Pete’s question about a nurturing group of older people and connects the book to Joseph Campbell’s “Hero's Journey” At about 1:07:30, Pete and Donna discuss a possible animated movie based on the book and possible voice actors At about 1:09:25, Donna shouts out as bookstores to buy her book, such as The Bureau of General Services, Queer Division, Stanza Books and Binnacle Books        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. This week, his conversation with Episode 255 guest Chris Knapp is up on the website. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, his DIY podcast and his extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran.    I have added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.     The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 277 with Jahmal Mayfield, who writes gritty crime novels that touch on large social issues. His stellar SMOKE KINGS was inspired by Kimberly Jones’ passionate viral video, “How can we win?”    The episode airs on March 25.  

Notes and Links to Deborah Taffa-Jackson’s Work          Deborah Jackson Taffa is a citizen of the (Quatzahn) Quechan (Yuma) Nation and Laguna Pueblo. She earned her MFA at the Nonfiction Writing Program at the University of Iowa and is the Director of the MFA in Creative Writing at the Institute of American Indian Arts in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Named Top 10 Book of the Year by Atlantic Magazine, and Top 10 Nonfiction Book by Time Magazine. Buy Whiskey Tender   Deborah's Website   Book Review for Whiskey Tender from Washington Post   At about 1:30, Deborah reflects on and expands on her experience in being a finalist for The National Book Award  At about 5:30, Pete shares some laudatory feedback for her memoir and Deborah shouts out Birchbark Books, Collected Works, Left Bank Books, as some great places to buy her book  At about 7:30, Deborah shares some wonderful invitations she’s received to discuss her book and her art At about 9:05, Deborah explains how she “reverse-engineered” the book with regard to research and personal stories  At about 10:20, Deborah responds to Pete’s questions about her early reading and language life and how her formal and informal education was affected by her family’s histories  At about 15:45, Deborah gives background on her “autodidactic,” transformative learning, study, reading, and traveling that helped her   At about 19:00, Deborah traces the throughlines of colonization in seemingly-disparate groups At about 22:20, Deborah discusses the significance of her epigraph on “ceremony” At about 26:25, Billy Ray Belcourt is cited as Pete and Deborah talk about the speculative and aspirational writing  At about 27:55, Pete and Deborah reflect on ideas of indigenous invisibility as evidenced in a memorable scene from Whiskey Tender At about 29:40, Deborah cites a “shocking” study n her college textbook that speaks to how many Americans view Native American women, and how it provided fodder and stimulus for her memoir At about 31:25, the two discuss a flashback scene that begins the book and the idea of “mirages” as discussed in the opening scene At about 35:20, Pete asks Deborah to expand upon a resonant line from her book about meaningful childhood experiences  At about 37:35, Deborah talks about historical silences in her family and in others  At about 39:40, Deborah talks about the intensive historical research done in the last year before the book was published At about 40:55, The two discuss similarities regarding generation gaps in indigenous groups and immigrant and traditionally-marginalized groups  At about 42:40, Deborah talks about the lore of Sarah Winnemucca in her family and “her savvi[ness] and revisionist history At about 46:25, Pete and Deborah talk about the “flattening” of American Indian stories and pivotal government treaties and reneging on deals by the American government   At about 48:00, Pete and Deborah reflect on contemporary connections to previous American policies At about 50:20, The two discuss a representative story about “lateral violence” and belonging and ostracism that affected Deborah at a young age At about 53:00, Counternarratives to myths about indigenous peoples and movement are discussed  At about 57:20,  At about 59:40, Pete is highly complimentary of Deborah’s writing about her grandmother’s genuine and wonderful nature, and Deborah expands on her grandmother’s cancer diagnosis and outlook and lasting influence  At about 1:02:30, Pete highlights a wonderful closing scene about time and place and home      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. This week, his conversation with Episode 255 guest Chris Knapp is up on the website. A big thanks to Rachel León and Michael Welch at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, his DIY podcast and his extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!     This month’s Patreon bonus episode will feature an exploration of the wonderful poetry of Khalil Gibran. I have added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.     The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 276 with Donna Minkowitz, a writer of fantasy, memoir, and journalism lauded by Lilith Magazine for her “fierce imagination and compelling prose.” Her first book, Ferocious Romance, won a Lambda Literary Award for Best Book On Religion/Spirituality, and her most recent memoir was Growing Up Golem, a finalist for both a Lambda Literary Award and Judy Grahn Nonfiction Award. She is also the author of the novel DONNAVILLE, published in 2024.     The episode airs on March 18.