328: Can You Save Someone Without Drowning Yourself? PTSD, Caregiving, and Wilderness Survival

What happens when caring for someone you love begins to pull you under too? In this episode of Stories from the Field, Will speaks with journalist and author Virginia Eubanks about her new memoir, A Guide to Open Water Lifesaving: Lessons on Love, Care, and Survival. After her partner, Jay, survived two violent attacks and developed severe PTSD, Virginia became a primary caregiver while trying to navigate a fragmented mental health and healthcare system. Years later, she was diagnosed with collateral PTSD herself. Searching for practical guidance, Virginia found some of the most useful lessons not in traditional caregiving advice, but in an unexpected place: a lifesaving manual. Virginia went on to become a certified lifeguard and study wilderness first aid, kayak self-rescue, navigation, bushwhacking, and winter survival. She shares how these experiences taught her that caregivers need more than self-care—they need competence, training, tools, and a team. Virginia and Will explore what wilderness survival can teach us about responding to crisis without becoming another victim, how she used progressively challenging experiences in the outdoors to rebuild her own tolerance for fear, and why she is skeptical of the simple idea that nature itself is inherently healing. At the heart of their conversation is a powerful question: How do we care deeply for another person without losing ourselves in the process? This podcast is supported by the White Mountain Adventure Institute (WMAI.org), where Dr. Will White helps individuals, leaders, and organizations navigate growth, change, and life transitions through coaching, consulting, and retreats.    Check out Virginia Eubank's website at https://virginia-eubanks.com/ to buy books or see where she it speaking in the near future:  

What makes nature-based psychotherapy different from simply taking therapy outdoors? In this episode Will speaks with licensed mental health counselor Lindsay Cray, founder of Integrating Nature, about how the natural world can become an active partner in trauma treatment. Lindsay traces her path from seeking safety in the woods during a turbulent childhood to working in conservation, environmental education, and mental health counseling. She explains how nature can support nervous-system regulation, expand sensory awareness, and help clients experience safety, connection, and resilience in ways that may be difficult to access in a traditional therapy office. Lindsay also introduces her 12-week Core Calm framework, which brings together ecotherapy, mindfulness, experiential activities, cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavior therapy, and narrative therapy. Drawing on her work with veterans, first responders, and other emergency service professionals, she shares powerful examples of helping clients recognize hypervigilance and practice distress tolerance in safe outdoor settings. The conversation also explores what therapists need to know before integrating nature into clinical practice—including informed consent, accessibility, weather, risk management, professional training, and developing their own authentic relationship with the natural world. This podcast is supported by the White Mountain Adventure Institute (WMAI.org), where Dr. Will White helps individuals, leaders, and organizations navigate growth, change, and life transitions through coaching, consulting, and retreats.    Lindsay Cray's website and bio is- https://www.integrating-nature.com/about    

Why do we associate adventure and transformation with young people when adults may need them just as much? In this solo episode of Stories from the Field, host Will White reflects on a conversation with his mentor, Dr. Dan Garvey, who predicted more than 20 years ago that the future of adventure therapy would include older adults. Drawing on Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, Will explores how career changes, empty nests, loss, changing relationships, health challenges, and shifting identities can call adults into a new stage of growth, purpose, and possibility. Will introduces the White Mountain Adventure Institute, which grew out of more than 35 years of experience in behavioral healthcare, clinical practice, teaching, leadership, writing, and podcasting. Together, those experiences led him to develop adventure-based coaching for adults and leaders navigating transitions, changing roles, and questions about purpose and what comes next. Through coaching, immersive retreats, and organizational consulting, WMAI helps individuals and organizations turn periods of change into opportunities for reflection, growth, and renewed direction. Learn more at WMAI.org.

How much time in nature do we need to improve our mental health? And how can we track and quantify our exposure to it?  In this episode, Will speaks with NatureQuant co-founder and CEO Jared Hanley about the science of nature exposure and its relationship to stress, mood, sleep, and overall well-being. Jared explains how NatureQuant uses satellite imagery and data science to measure health-supporting nature through NatureScore, while its free NatureDose app tracks the time people spend outdoors and in natural environments. Jared discusses why even a 20-minute nature break may be beneficial, what emerging research suggests about spending up to 300–400 minutes in nature each week, and how nature prescriptions could become part of routine mental healthcare. The conversation also explores America's growing "nature deficit," equitable access to parks and urban tree cover, data privacy, AI-powered health coaching, and NatureQuant's vision of making nature exposure a standard health measurement alongside exercise, sleep, and heart rate. This podcast is supported by the White Mountain Adventure Institute (WMAI.org), where Dr. Will White helps individuals, leaders, and organizations navigate growth, change, and life transitions through coaching, consulting, and retreats.     

What does it truly mean to practice ecotherapy? In this episode Will welcomes ecotherapist and founder of Natureza Therapy and Natureza Coaching Collective, Laura Marques Brown, for a thought-provoking conversation about the evolving field of nature-based mental health. Laura shares her journey as the daughter of Brazilian immigrants, how her search for belonging led her into the mountains of Colorado and graduate training at Naropa University, and why she believes nature became the one place where she never had to hide who she was. Together, they explore the foundations of her work in decolonized ecotherapy, her framework of Land, Lineage, and Liberation, and how reconnecting with the natural world can help people heal trauma, restore belonging, and rediscover their relationship with the living world. The conversation also examines some of today's biggest challenges facing therapists and mental health professionals, including burnout, the mental health impacts of climate change and social instability, and what Laura describes as our current polycrisis. She explains why nature should be understood as a relationship rather than resource, discusses building sustainable private practices that support both clinicians and clients, and offers practical ways anyone can begin reconnecting with the outdoors. Whether you're a therapist interested in ecotherapy training, a mental health professional seeking a more holistic approach to healing, or someone curious about the intersection of psychology, nature, mindfulness, and environmental wellbeing, this episode offers a compelling vision for the future of nature-based therapy and mental health. This podcast is supported by the White Mountain Adventure Institute (WMAI.org), where Dr. Will White helps individuals, leaders, and organizations navigate growth, change, and life transitions through coaching, consulting, and retreats.   Guest information:  Laura's Website: https://naturezacoachingcollective.com/ *People can book a free discovery call if they are interested in her programs and ready for change  Instagram: naturezacoachingcollective  Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/rootedpractitionercollective *free resources, trainings and community of liberated therapists!   

What happens after a young person returns home from wilderness therapy or residential treatment and begins to struggle? In this episode, Will sits down with Charles Elias, founder of PRN for Families, to explore an innovative model that brings mental health treatment directly into the home. Drawing on more than four decades in behavioral healthcare, Charles explains why lasting change requires working with the entire family, how home-based wraparound services strengthen the transition from higher levels of care, and why family preservation may represent the future of behavioral healthcare. Charles also shares his remarkable journey from England to Colorado, his years as a wilderness therapist at SUWS, his service as a U.S. Navy Corpsman during the Iraq War, and how those experiences shaped his approach to helping families in crisis. Together, Will and Charles discuss the evolution of wilderness therapy, the power of family systems, resilience, and why innovation in behavioral healthcare increasingly means helping families heal where they live. This podcast is supported by the White Mountain Adventure Institute (WMAI.org), where Dr. Will White helps individuals, leaders, and organizations navigate growth, change, and life transitions through coaching, consulting, and retreats.  

Can outdoor behavioral healthcare (aka wilderness therapy) evolve beyond crisis intervention and become a model for prevention, community, and long-term wellbeing? In this episode Will welcomes Chris Brown and Danny Frazer to explore how LifeWays is redefining Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare (OBH) through an innovative blend of nature-based therapy, therapeutic guiding, outpatient mental health services, community partnerships, and wilderness experiences. Rather than waiting until individuals reach a mental health crisis, LifeWays is helping children, adolescents, adults, and families access the healing power of nature earlier through prevention, early intervention, and relationship-centered care. Chris and Danny discuss the lessons they carried forward from their years at Open Sky Wilderness Therapy and how those experiences inspired a more accessible and sustainable model for the future of Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare. They share how LifeWays combines grant-funded community programs, insurance-based outpatient therapy, Wilderness Mental Health First Aid training, and therapeutic outdoor adventures to expand access to care while maintaining the transformational power of nature. Whether you're a mental health professional, educator, outdoor leader, parent, or simply interested in the future of wilderness therapy, nature-based mental health, outdoor behavioral healthcare, and preventive mental health care, this conversation offers an inspiring look at where the field may be headed next. This podcast is supported by the White Mountain Adventure Institute (WMAI.org), where Dr. Will White helps individuals, leaders, and organizations navigate growth, change, and life transitions through coaching, consulting, and retreats.  Both guests have previously been featured in as individual episode mentioned in episode:  Episode 284: Nature-Based Mental Health: The Lifeways Approach Episode 252: After Open Sky: How Danny Frazer is Shaping the Future with Gain the Ridge  

Can psychotherapy become more effective when it moves beyond the therapy office? In this episode, Will sits down with Atlanta psychotherapist Josh Wayne, LMSW, MPH, to explore nature-based psychotherapy and walk-and-talk therapy. Before becoming a therapist, Josh spent more than fifteen years as a naturalist, teaching people about wild plants, mushrooms, and ecology. Today, he integrates those experiences into his private practice, helping clients facing anxiety, grief, depression, chronic illness, and life transitions reconnect with themselves through meaningful experiences outdoors. Josh also shares how his background in public health, foraging, and ecology has shaped his approach to mental health, along with insights into green burial, the connection between physical and emotional wellbeing, and why the natural world can become an important partner in healing. Whether you're a therapist, mental health professional, graduate student, or someone curious about outdoor therapy, ecotherapy, and the relationship between nature and mental health, this conversation offers a fresh perspective on what lies beyond the therapy office. This podcast is supported by the White Mountain Adventure Institute (WMAI.org), where Dr. Will White helps individuals, leaders, and organizations navigate growth, change, and life transitions through coaching, consulting, and retreats.  

What happens when a neurodiverse young adult isn't ready for college or independent living—but has outgrown living at home? In this episode, Will sits down with David Chandler, Program Director at Intrepid Young Adults in Asheville, North Carolina, to explore how experiential therapy helps young adults with autism, ADHD, executive functioning challenges, anxiety, and other forms of neurodiversity develop the skills needed for adulthood. David explains how individualized coaching, community living, employment, and real-world experiences help young adults build confidence, purpose, relationships, and greater independence. David also shares his journey from psychiatric care to wilderness therapy at SUWS of the Carolinas before helping launch Intrepid Young Adults. Together, Will and David discuss why so many young adults struggle to transition into adulthood, the impact of COVID, technology, AI, and changing family dynamics, and why experiential learning remains a powerful approach to mental health treatment. Whether you're a parent, therapist, educational consultant, or professional working with neurodiverse young adults, this episode offers practical insights into helping young people move beyond "failure to launch" and toward meaningful, independent lives. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats and coaching facilitated by Will White.  

What is a therapeutic boarding school, and how can it help teenagers facing anxiety, depression, trauma, school refusal, and other mental health challenges? In this episode Will sits down with Peter Chorney, Executive Director of Grove School, one of the nation's oldest therapeutic boarding schools. Peter shares how Grove School has spent more than 92 years evolving its approach to residential treatment, combining academics, clinical care, family involvement, creative arts, and outdoor experiences to help teenagers build resilience, confidence, and hope. Peter also reflects on growing up on the Grove School campus, following in the footsteps of his father Richard Chorney, and leading a therapeutic boarding school through a rapidly changing mental health landscape. Together, Will and Peter discuss why family engagement is essential to successful treatment, how today's adolescents are arriving with greater levels of trauma and isolation than ever before, and why connection, community, and time in nature continue to play a vital role in helping teens and families heal. Whether you're a parent exploring residential treatment, a mental health professional, or simply interested in the evolution of therapeutic schools, this episode offers an inside look at one of the field's longest-standing and most respected programs. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats and coaching facilitated by Will White.