SPOS #998 – Annie Wilson On The Growth Dilemma

Welcome to episode #1001 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). Toby Stuart is a Distinguished Professor of Business Administration at the Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley, where he directs the Berkeley-Haas Entrepreneurship Program and the Institute for Business Innovation. Over his career, he has also taught at Harvard, Columbia, Chicago Booth and MIT Sloan, and he is recognized globally as one of the leading thinkers on entrepreneurship, networks and organizational strategy. Beyond academia, Toby sits on the boards of multiple technology companies, cofounded the Black Venture Institute, and serves as the founding Chairman of Workday’s AI Advisory Board. His latest book, Anointed - The Extraordinary Effects Of Social Status In A Winner-Take-Most World, examines the invisible hierarchies that govern so much of human life and why small advantages so often compound into massive outcomes. From why blurbs on books sway readers, to how neighborhoods or technologies become “the next big thing,” to the inequalities embedded in who gets credit for innovation, Anointed reveals how status shapes trust, opportunity and even our sense of self (I loved this book). Toby argues that status is both necessary - helping us navigate infinite choices in the modern world - and corrosive, creating inequality that is often disconnected from true merit. In our discussion, Toby unpacks the mechanics of anointment, the ways status rubs off through association and how technology, especially AI, might both entrench and disrupt these hierarchies. The conversation explores the paradox of meritocracy, the illusions of self-anointment in today’s digital culture and the future of work as AI accelerates change. If you’ve ever wondered why some ideas, people, or companies get chosen while others languish (or even how you go to where you are), this conversation will challenge you to see the hidden operating system behind everyday decisions. Enjoy the conversation... Running time: 55:24. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Toby Stuart. Anointed - The Extraordinary Effects Of Social Status In A Winner-Take-Most World. Haas School of Business. Follow Toby on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Toby Stuart. (01:50) - Understanding Anointed and Social Status. (04:40) - The Necessity and Corrosiveness of Status. (08:54) - Blurbs, Status, and the Publishing Industry. (12:40) - The Role of Association in Anointment. (15:29) - Breaking into New Fields and Status Transfer. (19:44) - Meritocracy and the Role of AI. (27:12) - AI's Impact on Status and Society. (31:38) - The Impact of AI on Status and Credentials. (34:46) - Evaluating Human Contribution in the Age of AI. (39:17) - The Future of AI Regulation and Power Dynamics. (45:29) - Self-Anointed Status in a Digital World. (51:25) - Reflections on Status and Personal Growth.

Welcome to episode #1000 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Patrick Tanguay is a self-described generalist, synthesist and curator whose lifelong curiosity and love of reading have led him across multiple careers, and now shape one of the most thoughtful newsletters in the futures-thinking space. As the creator of Sentiers, a weekly “futures thinking observatory” (and one of my most favorite reads), Patrick spotlights signals of change across technology, society, and culture. He helps readers trace emergent paths instead of prescribing them. Alongside his writing, he designed and launched Station C, one of the first co-working spaces, co-founded the print magazine, The Alpine Review, and seeded communities like Creative Mornings and some of the earlier community get-togethers for the digital enthusiasts. For episode #1000, Patrick guides us through how he curates global currents of change, explores how platform design, sense-making systems and personal knowledge management influence our capacity to understand the future, and why the skills of generalists matter now more than ever. He walks us through why Sentiers became such a respected newsletter and how its architecture reinforces and expands his handwritten trail of ideas. Across the show we consider how to build a personal “observatory,” not just follow feed algorithms, how to connect seemingly disparate signals from AI to city futures, and why being able to notice what’s happening before everyone else is becoming more crucial... and more rare. This is an episode for curious minds, digital gardeners and anyone searching for clarity amid chaos. I hope that you will also take a couple of moments to listen to my opening monologue about my reflections on the past 1000 episodes (nearly 20 years), and what the future will hold for this show starting next week. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:28:08. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Patrick Tanguay. Sentiers. The Alpine Review. Follow Patrick on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Evolution of Six Pixels of Separation. (04:14) - Introducing Patrick Tanguay. (05:31) - The Art of Thinking and Curating. (20:56) - Foresight and Future Thinking. (29:54) - Navigating the World of AI. (41:41) - The Role of Reading in Deep Thinking. (01:00:08) - The Future of Knowledge Work. (01:10:04) - The Intersection of AI and Human Purpose.

Welcome to episode #999 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Noah Giansiracusa is an associate professor of mathematics at Bentley University and a visiting scholar at Harvard who has built a reputation for translating the hidden power of algorithms into plain language that empowers individuals. With a PhD in algebraic geometry from Brown, he’s always bringing a mathematician’s eye to the cultural and social impact of technology. His earlier book, How Algorithms Create and Prevent Fake News, was praised by Nobel Prize–winning economist Paul Romer as “the best guide to the strategies and stakes of this battle for the future.” In his latest book, Robin Hood Math - Take Control Of The Algorithms That Run Your Life, Noah shows how banks, insurers, tech giants and governments use algorithms to make decisions that shape our lives, and how ordinary people can reclaim agency using simple mathematical tools. At a time when our feeds, finances and even friendships are increasingly mediated by code, Noah argues that math can be a democratizing force: a way to cut through the opacity of “black box” systems, understand who benefits from them, and make better choices in daily life. His work emphasizes that algorithms are neither inherently good nor bad, they tilt the balance of power depending on who wields them. By unpacking formulas like the weighted sum that underpins credit scores, college rankings and even TikTok virality, he provides a way to see through the manipulation and complexity. In this episode, Noah discusses the double-edged nature of technology, the transparency gap in digital platforms, the cultural consequences of algorithm-driven media and why math education must evolve to reflect the algorithmic realities students are already living. For anyone curious about reclaiming autonomy in a world increasingly designed by machines, his message is clear: a little math can go a long way in leveling the playing field. Enjoy the conversation... Running time: 1:05:57. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Noah Giansiracusa. Robin Hood Math - Take Control Of The Algorithms That Run Your Life. How Algorithms Create and Prevent Fake News. Check out Noah’s podcast: AI In Academia: Navigating The Future. Follow Noah on Instagram. Follow Noah on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Understanding Algorithms and Their Impact. (03:11) - The Dual Nature of Technology. (06:05) - Agency in an Algorithmic World. (09:00) - The Centralization of Algorithms. (11:53) - The Role of Math in Understanding Algorithms. (15:04) - Practical Applications of Algorithm Understanding. (19:07) - Engagement and Its Consequences. (24:06) - Navigating Social Media Dynamics. (27:54) - The Future of AI and Algorithms. (37:28) - Understanding AI: Generative vs Traditional. (39:59) - The Impact of AI on Social Media. (41:25) - Data as the New Oil: Advertising and Efficacy. (44:51) - Transparency in Technology and Advertising. (48:19) - Bridging the Gap: Understanding Algorithms. (51:56) - The Power Dynamics of Technology. (53:58) - Reclaiming Agency Through Math. (56:49) - Rethinking Math Education for the Modern World. (01:00:42) - Simplicity in Complexity: Understanding Algorithms. (01:03:51) - Finding Relevance in Math.

Welcome to episode #998 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Annie Wilson is a marketing professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania and co-author, with Ryan Hamilton, of The Growth Dilemma - Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things. Her work examines the deep interplay between consumer behavior, culture and brand identity, helping leaders understand why growth often creates as many risks as it does opportunities. In The Growth Dilemma, Annie unpacks how efforts to reach new customer segments can clash with the values of loyal buyers, sometimes threatening the very meaning of a brand. Drawing from real-world examples (from Apple’s software missteps to Gucci’s unintended association with reality TV fame) she reveals how scarcity, exclusivity and cultural perception shape brand power in ways most executives overlook. Beyond brand strategy, Annie’s research and teaching explore the ways marketing has evolved as a discipline, especially in an era of AI, fragmented media and globalization. She highlights how authenticity, community and cultural nuance are becoming non-negotiable for sustainable success, and why short-termism remains one of the most dangerous traps for modern marketers. For those navigating the intersection of consumer connection and cultural influence, Annie offers a critical lens on how to balance growth with integrity, how to adapt without betraying your core identity and how to see branding not just as a commercial practice, but as a cultural one. This conversation is essential listening for anyone grappling with the future of marketing in an age of shifting consumer expectations, technological disruption and global homogenization. Enjoy the conversation... Running time: 1:01:53. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Annie Wilson. The Growth Dilemma - Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things. Follow Annie on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Changing Landscape of Marketing. (02:56) - AI's Role in Marketing Education. (05:49) - The Evolving Perception of Marketing as a Career. (09:13) - Advertising in a Fragmented Media World. (12:07) - Branding in a Personalized Market. (14:59) - The Growth Dilemma: Balancing Consumerism and Sustainability. (33:01) - Cultural Influence Over Brand Identity. (35:53) - The Balance of Growth and Authenticity. (39:01) - The Evolution of Consumer Connection. (41:47) - Navigating Brand Growth and Consumer Expectations. (47:07) - Short-Termism in Marketing Strategies. (51:58) - Scarcity and Exclusivity in Brand Strategy. (55:52) - Consumer Perception and Brand Influence.

Welcome to episode #997 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. What happens when nearly everything a marketer or strategist does today becomes instant, automatic… and nearly free? That’s the premise of AI First, the new book from Adam Brotman (my guest this week) and his co-author Andy Sack, which confronts the existential shift that AI is bringing to brand strategy, customer experience and creative work. Adam, the former Chief Digital Officer at Starbucks and co-founder of the strategic consultancy Forum3, brings firsthand experience building digital platforms that changed how global businesses operate. In this episode, we dive into what it really means to become an "AI First” organization, not just layering on tools, but redesigning your business from the ground up. You’ll hear why OpenAI’s Sam Altman believes 95% of current marketing agency work will be handled by AI, and what that means for leaders, teams and the future of creative differentiation. We explore the difference between being AI-aware and AI-native, how to run internal pilots that create momentum, and what the future holds for customer loyalty and personalization in a post-human-first creative landscape. For anyone wondering what practical transformation looks like in an AI-saturated world and how to build companies that still feel human, this conversation maps the next five years and beyond. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 52:22. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Adam Brotman. AI First. Forum3. Check out his podcast. Follow Adam on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Journey of Digital Transformation. (05:05) - AI First: Understanding the New Paradigm. (10:00) - The Role of AI in Business Strategy. (15:09) - Navigating the Future of Work with AI. (19:50) - The Promise and Challenges of AGI. (31:58) - The Rise of AI and Human Collaboration. (34:07) - Navigating the AI Landscape: Challenges and Opportunities. (37:27) - Intelligence vs. Imitation: Understanding AI's Capabilities. (40:57) - Creativity in the Age of AI: A New Frontier. (43:30) - The Role of Empathy in AI Interactions. (46:41) - Paradigm Shifts: Embracing Change in Technology. (49:01) - Responsible AI: Balancing Innovation and Ethics. (52:44) - The Future of Work: Adapting to AI Transformations.

Welcome to episode #996 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Christie Smith is a former senior executive at Apple, Deloitte and Accenture with over three decades of leadership experience across industries including life sciences, consumer goods and finance. She holds a doctorate in Social Work and Organizational Psychology and now leads The Humanity Studio, a leadership advisory firm focused on redefining the future of work. In her new book, Essential - How Distributed Teams, Generative AI, and Global Shifts Are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership (along with her co-author Kelly Monahan), Christie outlines a bold new framework for leaders navigating a post-pandemic, AI-driven, decentralized world. This episode explores the urgent need for management transformation - from command-and-control to people-centered leadership - and how today’s leaders must adapt to rising expectations around purpose, trust and equity. Topics include the power shift from corporations to individuals, the cultural cost of distributed work, and why organizations must stop measuring productivity and start cultivating human energy. The discussion also unpacks the psychological strain of "always-on" work cultures, the promise and peril of generative AI, and how leaders can build communities, not just companies. At its core, this conversation is about what comes after burnout… what it means to lead with humanity, design systems that elevate people, and use power responsibly in a time of profound disruption. For anyone rethinking what it means to lead, build and belong in the modern workplace, this episode offers a timely and hopeful reframing of what’s possible. Enjoy the conversation... Running time: 56:23. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Christie Smith. Essential - How Distributed Teams, Generative AI, and Global Shifts Are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership. The Humanity Studio. Follow Christie on Instagram. Follow Christie on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Evolving Role of Leadership. (03:06) - Emotional Maturity in Leadership. (05:51) - The Impact of the Pandemic on Leadership. (08:55) - Employee Expectations and Organizational Change. (11:54) - The Shift Towards Purpose-Driven Leadership. (15:05) - Navigating Challenges in Large Organizations. (18:11) - The Rise of Entrepreneurship and New Work Models. (21:03) - Community and Connection in the Digital Age. (33:24) - The Human Element in AI and Workplaces. (39:10) - Agency and Connection in Leadership. (45:51) - Legacy and Leadership in a Changing World. (52:10) - Building a New Organization: Culture and Purpose. (58:28) - Curiosity and Hope in the Face of Challenges.

Welcome to episode #995 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Nelson Repenning has built his career at MIT Sloan and Shift Gear by asking a simple but haunting question: why do so many smart, capable organizations fail to get the right work done? In his new book, There’s Got to Be a Better Way, Nelson (along with his co-author, Don Kieffer) introduces dynamic work design: a practical framework that helps leaders move beyond broken systems and toward better execution. In this conversation, we explore the five principles behind this approach: solving the right problem, structuring for discovery, connecting the human chain, regulating for flow and visualizing the work. We talk about how businesses become addicted to heroics and strategic ambiguity, and how this culture often traps people in cycles of fire-fighting and busywork that look productive but deliver little. Nelson shares stories from his experience applying these principles in casinos, hospitals, biotech labs, and even homeless shelters (environments where urgency is real, resources are stretched and clarity can make or break outcomes). We also discuss how leadership often overcomplicates productivity with reorgs and top-down mandates, instead of fixing the structural design flaws that block meaningful progress. Nelson is quick to point out that the work isn’t just about doing more: it’s about doing it better… and that better means aligning actual workflow with the outcomes organizations care about. He reflects on his early days as a student at MIT and why dynamic work design is less a management fad and more a necessary shift in how modern teams operate. If you’re tired of watching your best people get burned out chasing KPIs while nothing fundamental improves, this episode offers a clearer path. We also get into the tension between change management and change design, and why the latter matters more in a world flooded with noise, complexity and well-intentioned but ineffective solutions. This is a sharp and focused take on work culture from someone who’s spent a lifetime challenging the systems beneath it. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:00:22. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Nelson Repenning. There’s Got to Be a Better Way. Shift Gear. MIT Sloan. Follow Nelson on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Nelson Repenning. (02:55) - The Journey to System Dynamics. (05:55) - Bridging Theory and Practice in Organizations. (09:14) - The Challenge of Success and Anomalies. (11:54) - Dynamic Work Design: From Manufacturing to Knowledge Work. (15:06) - The Role of AI in Knowledge Work. (18:12) - Manufacturing's Future and National Security. (20:58) - The Integration of Design and Manufacturing. (32:01) - The Complexity of Manufacturing and Supply Chains. (33:14) - Dynamic Work Design: A New Approach. (35:34) - Identifying and Solving the Right Problems. (39:28) - The Disconnect Between Management and Ground Realities. (42:14) - Adapting Management Practices for Hybrid Work. (45:33) - Visual Management in Knowledge Work. (52:44) - Regulating Flow to Prevent Overload. (58:41) - The Psychological Hurdles of Change.

Welcome to episode #994 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Vicki Tan has designed experiences for some of the most influential companies in the world (Pinterest, Airbnb, Headspace, Lyft, Google) and her work has always focused on helping people make better choices in complex environments. Her new book, Ask This Book A Question, continues that mission in a radically creative form. This isn’t your typical self-help guide. It’s an interactive journey through the beautiful mess of human decision-making, shaped by the science of cognitive bias, the power of storytelling and the playfulness of visual design. Vicki explores how our mental shortcuts shape everything - from whether we leave our job to how we fall in love - and how reframing our questions can unlock more clarity than any answer ever could. She talks about the tension between intuition and logic, the real-world costs of not understanding our own biases and the way interface design and behavior design intersect in both delightful and dangerous ways. In this epsiode, she also digs into the deeper story behind the book: How she collaborated with artists to visualize psychological concepts and why she believes our decisions deserve more compassion than critique. This episode is for anyone who’s ever overthought a text message… or stood paralyzed in a grocery aisle… or wondered why being human feels so confusing sometimes. Which is to say: it’s for all of us. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 54:55. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Vicki Tan. Ask This Book A Question. Follow Vicki on Instagram. Follow Vicki on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Vicki Tan and Her Journey. (02:57) - Balancing Work and Writing. (05:55) - Understanding Product Design. (08:56) - The Role of Luck in Career Success. (12:00) - The Importance of Asking Questions. (15:01) - The Process of Writing a Book. (17:49) - Cognitive Biases and Decision Making. (20:52) - Cultural Perspectives on Risk. (24:10) - Engaging with the Book and Its Purpose. (28:23) - The Polarization of Society and Technology's Role. (29:16) - The Evolution of Music Consumption and Its Implications. (32:16) - Designing for the Future: The Role of Creators. (37:25) - Risk Tolerance and the Art of Quitting. (41:41) - Navigating Decision Fatigue in a Complex World. (46:08) - The Impact of AI on Decision Making. (52:20) - Understanding Time and Decision Making in a Vortex of Choices.

Welcome to episode #993 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Angela Chee is a keynote speaker, media and communication coach, and author of The Power Of the Only – Own Your Voice, Thrive in Any Environment, a book that challenges us to rethink the spaces we occupy and the voices we often silence… especially our own. In this conversation, Angela explores what it means to truly “own your voice” in an era defined by visibility and vulnerability, noise and nuance. Angela speaks candidly about how being the “only” in the room (whether because of race, gender, background, or perspective) is not a disadvantage but a profound source of power and insight. We discuss the emotional tension of the spotlight effect, where the desire to be seen and the fear of judgment collide, and how discernment (not just visibility) becomes the essential skill for modern communication. Angela opens up about the importance of balancing authenticity with intention, and why the journey of discovering your voice is never really over. It’s a practice, a reclaiming and a reshaping of self in response to a constantly shifting cultural landscape. We touch on the rise of AI, the tension of audience capture, the commodification of personality, and the difference between performance and presence. Angela’s perspective is grounded in clarity and connection, and she brings both wisdom and structure to the chaos of today’s media environment. Her Five Principles of The Power of the Only are not just a framework for communication, they’re a roadmap for identity and leadership in uncertain times. This conversation is for anyone feeling overwhelmed by the demand to “show up” in public, who wonders if they’re saying too much or not enough, or who is searching for the courage to take up space without apology. If you’ve ever felt like an outsider at work, in life, or even in your own skin, this episode reminds us that our difference isn’t something to overcome. It’s the very thing that makes us whole. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 58:53. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Angela Chee. The Power Of the Only – Own Your Voice, Thrive in Any Environment. Follow Angela on Instagram. Follow Angela on LinkedIn. Book Angela for your next meeting on ThinkersOne. Chapters: (00:00) - The Power of Communication and Visibility. (03:09) - Navigating the Spotlight Effect. (06:03) - Owning Your Voice and Power. (08:53) - The Evolution of Personal Branding. (11:52) - Balancing Authenticity and Marketing. (15:11) - The Challenge of Expertise vs. Ego. (17:53) - Media Literacy and Cultural Change. (29:34) - The Shift from Value to Volume. (32:15) - Navigating Audience Capture and Content Creation. (35:41) - Redefining 'Only' as Empowerment. (38:07) - Embracing Unique Identities in Leadership. (42:08) - Innate Skills vs. Self-Limiting Beliefs. (49:05) - The Rise of AI and Digital Twins. (54:31) - Monetizing Individuality in a Capitalist World. (57:37) - The Importance of Human Connection.

Welcome to episode #992 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Dave Whorton has spent his career building, backing and reimagining companies, but not in the way Silicon Valley usually does it. As founder of Tugboat Institute and author of Another Way – Building Companies That Last…and Last…and Last (which he co-authored with Bo Burlingham), Dave champions a different breed of business: evergreen companies. These are organizations designed to last generations, rooted in purpose, resilience and profitability… not just hypergrowth and exit strategies. Before this pivot, Dave had a front-row seat to the “get-big-fast” movement as an associate partner at Kleiner Perkins, and he co-founded ventures like drugstore.com and Good Technology. But the treadmill of fast capital and faster exits didn’t resonate. He stepped off and sought a more meaningful model, eventually codifying it into the 7 Ps of Evergreen: purpose, perseverance, people first, and more. In this conversation, Dave explores the cultural and economic consequences of chasing unicorns, and what’s gained when we celebrate the quiet power of companies in the middle. Those not seeking fame or fortune but focused on sustainable impact. Dave talks about the role of introverted leadership, long-term planning, and what capitalism can look like when it’s driven by values rather than valuations. If you’ve ever felt that the venture-backed startup narrative doesn’t tell the whole story or if you’re building something you want to last, this conversation might just give you language and hope. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:00:43. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Dave Whorton. Another Way – Building Companies That Last…and Last…and Last. Tugboat Institute. Follow Dave on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Evergreen Companies. (02:47) - The Shift in Capitalism. (05:52) - The Spectrum of Capitalism. (08:55) - The Role of Venture Capital. (11:50) - Defining Scale in Business. (15:08) - The Importance of SMBs. (17:53) - The Seven Ps of Evergreen Companies. (21:13) - Revisiting Venture Capital Models. (23:54) - Celebrating Success and the Power Law. (31:40) - Reflecting on the Journey: The Value of the Middle. (33:14) - The Economic Landscape: Building Evergreen Companies. (34:38) - Historical Perspective: Resilience in Business. (38:15) - The Role of Evergreen Companies in a Changing Economy. (40:19) - Compensation and Value Distribution in Evergreen Companies. (42:29) - Resisting the Unicorn Mentality: A Different Path. (47:31) - From Manifesto to Strategy: The Evergreen Approach. (51:49) - The Culture of Evergreen Leadership: Introversion and Stewardship.