Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Jane Perlez on her new podcast series, Face-Off

This week on Sinica, I'm delighted to welcome — my brother! Jay Kuo is a Broadway writer & producer, and the man behind the terrific U.S. politics-focused Substack newsletter The Status Kuo. In a previous life, from 1996 to 2000, he was also really active in Beijing's gay community, just at the time when homosexuality was being decriminalized and was stepping out of the shadows. We talk about how it all took off. Jay also puts on his other hat to talk about how China figures into American politics with the election less than five months away, and about the legal standing of the TikTok divest-or-ban law.4:54 – The gay community in Beijing in the ‘90s, and the Half-and-Half bar in Sanlitun 16:06 – How the gay community in Beijing changed after two major rulings 27:33 – The end of the “golden era” for the gay community in China36:26 – Progress and its drivers and obstacles42:28 – Jay’s “China priors”50:41 – The issue of China in the upcoming U.S. presidential election  57:08 – The TikTok ban bill Recommendations: Jay: The TV series Manhunt (2024), available on Apple TVKaiser: The TV series The Sympathizer (2024), available on HBO; the audiobook of The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen, narrated by François Chau See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, I chat with Sulmaan Wasif Khan, professor of history and international relations at the Fletcher School at Tufts University, about his book The Struggle for Taiwan: A History of America, China, and the Island Caught Between, which comes on May 14.4:28 — The Cairo Agreement6:59 — General George Marshall, George Kennan, and the change in the idea of American trusteeship of Taiwan?17:08 — The debate over the offshore islands of Kinmen and Matsu23:55 — Mao’s evolving interest in Taiwan27:49 — The averted crisis of 196232:06 — Peng Ming-min and the Taiwan independence movement37:14 — What changed in 1971?42:51 — The legacy of Chiang Ching-kuo45:14 — The story of Lee Teng-hui52:37 — The change within the Kuomintang1:00:11 — Why Taiwan has become “sacred” for China1:10:26 — Sulmaan’s own narrative shift1:13:26 — Chen Shui-bian and the threat of independence referendums1:17:53 — The Sunflower Movement1:25:21 — The causal direction of Taiwan’s importance in the U.S.-China relationship1:28:32 — Why the status quo shifted1:30:51 — Drawing parallels between Taiwan and Ukraine1:33:26 — Sulmaan’s sources for his book1:35:38 — Agency versus structure1:39:29 — Feedback (so far) on the new book and what’s next for SulmaanRecommendations:Sulmaan: Emily Wilson’s translation of The Iliad Kaiser: The “My China Priors” series (and other essays), available on the Sinica Substack; Angus Stewart’s essay, “Alien Bless You: A Review of Netflix’s 3 Body Problem” See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, veteran reporter Jane Perlez, who served as bureau chief for the New York Times in Beijing until 2019, joins to discuss her new podcast series Face-Off, which explores different facets of the U.S.-China relationship. We also talk about the state of Western journalism in China in the wake of tit-for-tat expulsions of reporters from the U.S. and China that took place during the Trump administration, and the challenges of covering China well without people on the ground in country.5:16 – How Jane Perlez got into podcasting7:59 – The challenge of understanding Xi Jinping12:44 – The Face-Off podcast and appealing to a general audience19:00 – Face-Off’s interview with Zhao Tong on the nuclear issue; the importance of quality diplomacy; and debating the efficacy of the S&ED 30:48 – The pleasure of meeting Yo-Yo Ma 36:52 – The state of Western journalists in China, and how the situation may eventually play out 48:44 – The difficulty of covering China from the outside 53:52 – What’s next for Jane Perlez and the Face-Off podcastRecommendations:Jane: Judgment at Tokyo: World War II on Trial and the Making of Modern Asia by Gary BassKaiser: The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History by Serhii Plokhy See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Iza Ding, associate professor of political science at Northwestern University and author of The Performative State: Public Scrutiny and Environmental Governance in China, joins to share her ideas on how American academia has framed and problematized authoritarianism, especially when it comes to China. A deep and subtle thinker, she offers thought-provoking critiques of some of the assumptions that have become nearly axiomatic in political science and other social sciences in their approach to understanding politics in China.3:13 – Iza Ding’s concept of “authoritarian teleology”15:31 – The concept of authoritarian resilience 19:58 – The question of regime legitimacy 24:09 – The question of whether authoritarianism is an ideology 26:24 – The China model? 30:58 – Finding a balance between generalizability and the sui generis, and striving toward cognitive empathy and “Verstehen” 42:04 – The state of area studies and avoiding essentialism 49:32 – Iza Ding’s advice on how to become a better writer Recommendations:Iza: The Wife of Bath: A Biography by Marion Turner — the story of Alison, the Wife of Bath in Geoffrey Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales Kaiser: the guitarist Kent Nishimura, especially his recordings of “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” by Tears for Fears, “Sir Duke” by Stevie Wonder, “Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic” by The Police, and “Hey Nineteen” by Steely Dan See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, I'm delighted to welcome Dá Wēi (达巍), one of China’s foremost scholars of China’s foreign relations and especially relations with the U.S. Da Wei is the director of the Center for International Security and Strategy (CISS) at Tsinghua University in Beijing, and is a professor in the department of International Relations at the School of Social Science at Tsinghua. Before September 2017, Professor Da served as the Director of the Institute of American Studies at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR), a leading think tank in Beijing. He was at CICIR for more than two decades and directed the Institute of American Studies from 2013 to 2017.We discuss the state of Chinese understanding of the United States: how China’s strategic class assesses the state of the relationship, what brought it to this point, and what the future might hold.2:52 – American attitudes toward the U.S.-China relationship5:32 – The focus of academic think tanks and strategic communities in the U.S. versus China 11:13 – The Chinese strategic community’s understanding of American domestic politics with respect to the upcoming U.S. presidential election  15:08 – The Chinese strategic community’s understanding of why and how the current state of relations developed, and why China changed its trajectory  23:12 – The Chinese strategic community’s perspectives on American policy: Do they see a difference between the parties?27:02 – Da Wei’s concept of “Sullivanism” 33:41 – The question of mutual misunderstanding 38:37 – The role and influence of China’s think tanks in the policymaking process43:29 – The idea of cognitive empathy — aka strageic empathy, or intellectual empathy — and how it could aid mutual understanding and the policymaking process52:30 – The Chinese perspective on Russia and the war in Ukraine 57:37 – The Chinese perspective on China’s other international relations and the global context of the U.S.-China relationship 1:04:19 The issue of Taiwan and the question of the “status quo” 1:13:52 The importance of building people-to-people ties 1:16:51 – Da Wei's personal anecdote about an experience that influenced his understanding the U.S.-China relationshipRecommendations:Da Wei:  Lust for Life by Irving Stone — a biography of Vincent van Gogh; Pablo Casals’s recording of Johann Sebastian Bach’s Cello Suites; the films Cinema Paradiso (1988) and Forrest Gump (1994).  Kaiser: The Sopranos (1999-2007) TV series and The Sopranos Family Cookbook: As Compiled by Artie Bucco, written by Allen Rucker with recipes by Michele Scicolone. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, a discussion of Netflix's adaptation of Liu Cixin's The Three-Body Problem (or more accurately, Remembrance of Earth's Past). Joining me to chat about the big-budget show is Cindy Yu, host of The Spectator’s “Chinese Whispers” podcast, one of the very best China-focused podcasts; and Christopher T. Fan, who teaches English, Asian American Studies, and East Asian Studies at U.C. Irvine and is a co-founder of Hyphen magazine. Cindy and Chris both wrote reviews of the show and a bunch of other folks answered the call and contributed their thoughts as well. 6:46 – 3 Body Problem as Chinese IP and audience reception 14:44 – The pros and cons of a more faithful adaptation, comparisons with Tencent’s adaptation, [and the Netflix production (process) (? Or keep it separate, 20:17)]23:44 – How the show portrays its Chinese characters and China and audience responses38:14 – Allegorical interpretations and real-world (political?) connections 48:11 – What to look forward to in (possible?) future seasons 51:14 – Chenchen Zhang’s humanity/autocracy binary and the 工业党 gōngyè dǎng 57:02 A win for Chinese soft power? Recommendations:Cindy: The Overstory by Richard Powers Chris: Same Bed Different Dreams by Ed ParkKaiser: Kaiser: Run and Hide by Pankaj Mishra; other novels by Pankaj Mishra, including Age of Anger: A History of the Present and From the Ruins of Empire: The Revolt Against the West and the Remaking of Asia; and other novels by Richard Powers, including Galatea 2.2, Operation Wandering Soul, and The Gold Bug Variations See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica: I wandered the halls at the Association for Asian Studies Conference in Seattle and talked to 14 participants and asked them all the same question: What has become clear to you about our field recently? The fantastic diversity of areas of inquiry and of perspectives was really energizing. Hope you enjoy this as much as I did!02:25 Michael Davidson from UC San Diego on working towards climate change goals04:22 Timothy Cheek from University of British Columbia on the importance of continuing to study China despite political tensions 06:51 Chen Zifeng from LSE on Chinese propaganda that surrounds everyday life 11:08 Clyde Yicheng Wang (Wang Yicheng) from Washington and Lee University on Chinese propaganda and its spread into social media 16:57 Jeff Wasserstrom from UC Irvine on connections between events in China and the world18:26 Ian Johnson from CFR on researching China from afar and the importance of online databases 21:01 Daniel Leese from the University of Freiburg on the work of digitizing Chinese sources 24:06 Tyler Harlan from Loyola Marymount University on opportunities for cooperation in the environmental field 25:41 Abby Newman from the University of Chicago Center for East Asian Studies on the importance of spaces for conversation within the field27:55 Sophie Loy-Wilson from the University of Sydney on studying violence and war in Asia with more sympathy 33:45 Joe Dennis from the University of Wisconsin-Madison on the changes he has witnessed in Chinese studies at the university level 36:49 Ed Pulford from the University of Manchester on China’s differing perspective on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine 39:49 Emily Matson from Georgetown University on the importance of Marxist and Mao thought in analyzing modern Chinese history and World War II42:14 Jan Berris from the National Committee on United States-China Relations on redirecting the U.S. government’s focus Recommendation: The musical, poetic, and comedic work of Elle Cordova (formerly Reina Del Cid), on TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook; and the Led Zeppelin tribute band "Presence," fronted by singer Tamar Boursalian. (Alas, the band, which is new, has no online presence. See them if you're in Seattle!)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, I speak with veteran China analysts Thomas Fingar and David M. Lampton — Mike Lampton — about a paper they published in the Winter 2024 edition of the Washington Quarterly. It's an excellent overview of how and why the bilateral relationship took such a bad turn roughly 15 years ago, citing mistakes both sides made and the reasons why China shifted around that time from one of its two basic behavioral modes — more open, tolerant, and simpatico in its foreign policy — to the other mode, which is both more internally repressive and externally assertive.Thomas Fingar is Shorenstein APARC Fellow in the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford University. He was Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research. He served as the first deputy director of national intelligence for analysis and as chairman of the National Intelligence Council — and he’s the author of many books, including most recently From Mandate to Blueprint: Lessons from Intelligence Reform.Mike Lampton is Professor Emeritus and former Hyman Professor and Director of SAIS-China and China Studies at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, and Senior Research Fellow at the Foreign Policy Institute. Mike was also formerly President of the National Committee on United States-China Relations.05:04 – The problem with the use of the term "autocracy" to describe China's system09:18 – Analysis of the motivation behind China's actions, questioning the assumption that all decisions are solely for perpetuating the Communist Party's power.10:25 – Rethinking Xi Jinping's personal influence over China's policy decisions: the checks on his power within the Chinese political system.15:58 – Critique of deterministic theories in political science regarding state behavior, particularly concerning China's foreign policy and domestic policy actions.19:13 – The importance of avoiding oversimplified and deterministic explanations for Chinese behavior on the global stage.23:43 – Discussion on the perception of China as an unstoppable juggernaut and the consequences of such a view for international relations and domestic policies in the U.S.24:41 – Analysis of the notion that China seeks to recreate an imperial tribute system in its foreign relations and regional strategy.28:09 – Introduction of the concept of two strategic constellations that have historically guided China's policy focus: national/regime security and economic/social development.33:11 – Exploration of factors leading to China's shift from prioritizing economic and social development to focusing more on national and regime security.37:38 – Examination of the internal and external dynamics contributing to China's policy shifts and the impact of globalization on societal and political tensions.48:47 – Reflection on the post-9/11 period as a time of relatively smooth U.S.-China relations and speculation on the role of international crises in shaping bilateral dynamics.52:59 – Discussion on the challenges and opportunities for the U.S. and China to adjust their policies and rhetoric to manage tensions and avoid further exacerbating the bilateral relationship.Recommendations: Tom: The novels of Mick Herron (author of Slow Horses); the novels of Alan Furst, including Night Soldiers and The Polish Officer.Mike: Philip Taubman, In the Nation’s Service (a biography of George Schultz); and Liz Cheney, Oath and HonorKaiser: The Magician, by Colm Tóibín — an unconventional novelized biography of Thomas MannSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on the Sinica Podcast, a show taped in Salzburg, Austria, at the Salzburg Global Seminar with Kerry Brown of King's College, London, on the prolific author's latest book, China Incorporated: The Politics of a World Where China is Number One.05:22 – Chinese worldview and historical perceptions07:51 – The unease with China's rise10:42 – Chinese exceptionalism vs. Western universalism17:30 – Parallels between American domestic unease and perceptions of China22:27 – Discussion on China's competing belief system33:56 – China's raw form of capitalism40:36 – What the West wants from China46:10 – The internet as a reflection of Chinese power and limitations51:17 – China's syncretism and its impact today55:00 – The narrative of Chinese success and its PR challenges1:05:32 – Revising Western narratives on China's developmentA complete transcript of this podcast is available at sinica.substack.com. Join the community on Substack and get not only the transcript but lots of other writing and audio to boot!Recommendations: Kerry: Civilization and Capitalism by Fernand BraudelKaiser: Empire of Silver: A New Monetary History of China by Jin Xu; and re-reading Hilary Mantel's masterful Wolf Hall trilogy (Wolf Hall, Bring Up the Bodies, and The Mirror and the Light)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Historian Rana Mitter joins Sinica this week in a show taped live in Salzburg, Austria at the Salzburg Global Seminar, in which he discusses efforts by Party ideologists to create a Confucian-Marxist synthesis that can serve as an enduring foundation for a modern Chinese worldview in the self-proclaimed “new era.”01:28 – Is China a revisionist power?02:16 – Right-sizing China's global ambitions09:27 — How China utilizes historical narratives to support political ends10:43 – Marxism and China's Historical Understanding17:07 – China's "New Era" and Party history28:38 – The Confucian-Marxist Synthesis 56:58 – China's ability to reinvent itself1:02:15 – What’s the next big question?A complete transcript is available at the Sinica Substack.Recommendations: Rana: Eliza Clark, Boy PartsKaiser: Anthony Kaldellis, Streams of Gold, Rivers of Blood: The Rise and Fall of Byzantium, 955 A.D. to the First Crusade See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.