Part 2: Navigating Betrayal Trauma Anger with Crystal Hollenbeck

Chelsey Cole and Dr. Rob continue their conversation about narcissistic behavior. Chelsey outlines the impact that growing up with a narcissist can have on future relationships, the shame-rage cycle of a top-tier narcissist, and the signs that you are (most likely) not a narcissist, even if you occasionally act like one.    TAKEAWAYS: [1:22] The shame-rage cycle of a narcissist.  [4:00] The top of the narcissistic scale.  [6:17] Sociopathy, psychopathy, and narcissists and where they overlap.  [7:55] The role of addiction in narcissism.  [10:18] Chelsey’s personal experience with narcissism.  [14:21] The impact of growing up with a narcissist.  [16:11] Am I a narcissist too?    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Chelsey Cole   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.    QUOTES: “Narcissists do not deal with shame. They have the shame-rage cycle.”  “To a narcissist, your pain is proof of their power.”  “Anyone who is active in their addiction is going to look narcissistic.”  “Narcissism presents in patterns of behavior over time.” 

Chelsey Cole is a psychotherapist focusing on narcissistic abuse and complex trauma. She is the best-selling author of If Only I’d Known, and has joined Dr. Rob to explore what narcissism really is and what it isn’t. She offers clear signs and strategies of a grandiose narcissist, and offers hope for any partner who has been frustrated by assuming their narcissistic partner views relationships through the same lens they do. Unless you understand the views of a narcissist, you will never succeed in true communication and connection with them.    TAKEAWAYS: [2:10] Is he just selfish or is he a true narcissist?  [5:26] Characteristics of the grandiose narcissist.  [9:38] The danger of transactional views of relationships.  [10:31] Stages of the narcissist spectrum.  [14:45] Remorse motivation in a narcissist’s mind.  [17:07] Steps in the cycle of narcissistic abuse.  [20:03] Characteristics of the moderate to severe narcissists.  [23:01] You’re not crazy! Narcissists actually want the conflict you are avoiding.  [25:49] Pathological insecurity versus healthy insecurity.    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Chelsey Cole   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.    QUOTES: “True narcissists don’t have the stuff that it takes to create deep, committed relationships.”  “Narcissists believe they are always the exception to every rule.”  “For a true narcissist, their default is to not care about you, and to put their needs first.”  “Narcissists actually seek the conflict you are avoiding.” 

Crystal Hollenbeck and Dr. Rob continue their conversation about the power and purpose of triggers, the appropriate time to utilize communication skills, and each of the seven steps of the CALMING model, including handling residual anger and resentment. We often think that anger is the only option for control after betrayal, but Crystal challenges this limiting belief and offers hope to anyone who is ready to move on from an angry life.    TAKEAWAYS: [1:52] Why should I do anything? He betrayed me.  [5:42] Triggers are normal and can be helpful.  [7:27] What to expect from the leveling stage.  [13:13] The management and intuition stages of CALMING.  [20:21] Trusting your intuition after betrayal.  [25:17] The role of forgiveness in healing.  [30:41] This behavior increases the likelihood of repeat betrayal.  [32:30] Boundaries are protection, not restriction. [34:35] Grieving loss and recognizing the positives of post-traumatic growth. [43:44] Moving on after grief is possible.    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Crystal Hollenbeck Betrayal Healing Conference   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.    QUOTES: “This is part of your story now. You have to talk about it.”  “I have never seen a client not be grateful for healing work, because they come in with wounds they didn’t know exist.”  “Forgiveness is for you, not the person that harmed you.”  “Boundaries are protection, not restriction.” “We never stop grieving. We learn to live with grief.”

Crystal Hollenbeck has returned to the podcast to discuss a new resource for anyone who is dealing with betrayal trauma anger. She and Dr. Rob define this healthy emotion in the healing process, discuss her new book Betrayal Trauma Anger and explore anger management options available to help betrayed partners calm down and move forward.    TAKEAWAYS: [1:52] A new resource for managing anger after betrayal and trauma. [3:25] Defining betrayal trauma anger. [4:23] The motivation behind Crystal’s new book. [7:01] 3 significant experiences of a betrayed partner.  [8:20] The danger of repressing anger.  [9:58] “I don’t like who I’ve become.” Now what? [12:25] What being betrayed says about you.   [14:43] The reward in Crystal’s work.  [16:10] Trauma and broken attachments.  [19:21] 7 stages of recovery with anger.  [24:01] When is enough punishment enough?  [25:13] First steps in the CALMING model.    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Crystal Hollenbeck   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.    QUOTES: “You’re not crazy, you’re angry. And you should be.” “When you are betraying someone, you are abusing them.” “Being betrayed does not mean you are stupid or foolish.”  “You are not responsible for what your partner did. Period.”

Tammy Gustafson and Dr. Rob continue their conversation about creating emotional space between you and your betraying partner. They discuss the power of actually feeling all of your feelings, and the importance of allowing fun and play in the healing process. Tammy offers free resources for finding peace, and underscores the power that comes with surviving and thriving after betrayal.   TAKEAWAYS: [1:23] You don’t have control over your partner’s behavior. Now what? [4:22] Shifting from safety seeking in others to self. [7:35] Pumping the well of your soul. [8:52] The danger of suppressing your anger and sadness. [13:00] Allowing the flow of emotions while grieving. [17:01] Free resources for finding peace. [21:07] The role of fun and play in healing. [25:06] Moving toward the best version of yourself through healing.   RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Tammy Gustafson Betrayal Healing Conference   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.   QUOTES: ● “Over time, the way that we start to heal… is a version of healthy detachment.” ● “There is an energy to anger that has a purpose.” ● “Part of the grieving process is allowing the flow of emotions to go through you.” ● “You cannot heal your heart with your head.”

Tammy Gustafson is a licensed professional counselor and coach who focused on trauma, PTSD, and EMDR before her own marriage imploded. She now works with others who are facing betrayal, focusing on women who have been betrayed to help them find their worth and strength again. Together, she and Dr. Rob discuss healing after betrayal and regaining trust in your partner, but more importantly, in yourself.   TAKEAWAYS: [2:00] Tammy’s reluctant, and now passionate journey toward betrayal counseling. [4:30] The personal element of Tammy’s services. [6:05] Growing into the best version of yourself after betrayal. [9:03] What if I can’t feel my feelings? [11:20] The process of healing requires the help of others. [12:52] It is never your fault that your partner betrayed you. [15:30] What if my anger is directed at the other woman? [17:25] Rebuilding trust after betrayal.  [21:07] How can I trust myself again? [25:00] Resetting the nervous system.   RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Tammy Gustafson   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.   QUOTES: ● “We can’t hide from our emotions and heal.” ● “The grieving process is the healing process.” ● “Healing is a thousand times easier with the help of other people.” ● “Power is the ability to influence, or to resist influence.”

Carol Juergensen Sheets and Dr. Rob continue their conversation about healing as a couple. Carol defines the six primary needs of every person, ways to create meaningful connection, and what it means to be brave and do it anyway throughout a couple’s healing journey.   TAKEAWAYS: [1:23] Where do couples start with healing? [3:27] Transactional sex versus emotional connection. [4:13] First steps with couples work – what do you need that you aren’t getting? [6:03] Defining the 6 primary needs of every person. [9:40] Creating meaningful ways for connection. [11:56] Helping couples heal starts here. [14:15] Do you know your own strengths? [15:05] Be brave and do it anyway.   RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Carol Juergensen Sheets   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.   QUOTES: ● “You need to be seen as a couple that is not in distress.” ● “Create ways that you can look forward to connection.” ● “I want couples to work through their trauma with each other.” ● “You have to do what will make your partner feel safe.”

Carol Juergensen Sheets joins Dr. Rob for an in-depth conversation about what it really takes for both partners to heal after betrayal and trauma. Carol focuses on empathy in recovery, understanding triggers, and the signs that indicate that it is safe for a couple to move toward each other again. She also addresses the importance of support groups in healing and answers the classic question – do women really need other women?   TAKEAWAYS: [2:56] Carol has been supporting healing in sex addicts couples since 2005. [5:55] Betrayed spouses aren’t crazy, they’re traumatized. [7:57] The Early Recovery Couples Empathy Model. [10:38] The danger of fact checking and hypervigilance after trauma. [14:10] The sustaining hope of feeling connected to your partner. [15:25] Empathy broken down into 4 actionable parts. [20:05] How to desensitize the desire to shut down after being triggered. [22:52] Am I contributing to this relationship or contaminating it? [26:33] When is it safe to move toward the coupleship again? [28:25] Shifting away from if/then interactions toward stability. [31:11] Healthy detachment leads to healing. [36:07] Do women really need other women?   RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Carol Juergensen Sheets   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.   QUOTES: ● “I don’t want someone calling me 24/7, I want them to develop a fellowship out there that can also help to guide them.” ● “You can’t just stop negative behaviors, you have to replace them with something good.” ● “You can be in conflict but not withdraw.” ● “Am I contributing to this relationship or contaminating it?”

Dr. Jenn Kennedy and Dr. Rob continue their conversation about finding satisfaction and intimacy after 50. They consider what it means to truly become a better person and partner, to evolve beyond betrayal toward empathy and intimacy. We often think that intimacy equals sex, but Dr. Kennedy challenges that notion and defines what a satisfied, committed relationship can really look like in the later years of life.   TAKEAWAYS: [1:45] The impact of infidelity on a committed sexual relationship. [7:20] Infidelity in a mature vs. younger couple. [13:03] Intimacy, not just sex, is the ultimate goal. [17:40] From discovery to reconnecting sexually, eventually. [27:07] Moving from ‘I’m sorry to ‘I’m sorry I put you through that’. [32:40] Reintroducing touch and talking without the expectation of sex. [38:13] Scheduled sex and other tactics for navigating sexuality in older age. [43:20] Train your mind to choose your partner. [44:57] Battling the psychological landmine is not required to resume intimacy. [46:40] What if we just don’t want to have sex anymore?   RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Dr. Jenn Kennedy   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.   QUOTES: ● “The breakdown in intimacy after infidelity is real.” ● “If the addict doesn’t start to actually change and show some progress, their sex life probably isn’t going to change either.” ● “Wherever you place your focus, growth will occur.” ● “You can have great intimacy and not have sex.”

Dr. Jenn Kennedy joins Dr. Rob to explore a rarely discussed topic – sexuality for the more seasoned. Dr. Kennedy tackles the two main ‘D’s’ of sexuality that bring couples into therapy after 50, considers what ‘better’ sex really looks like, and shares some of the main talking points that should be discussed in any conversation about sexuality as we age. Because like it or not, these are issues that every person has to face as they get older.   TAKEAWAYS: [2:23] Dr. Kennedy’s third career tackles the topics that many therapist avoid. [4:50] Generalities in sexuality expectations and roles over 50. [8:35] Women over 50, their relationships and their sexuality. [10:42] Presenting problems that bring couples to Dr. Kennedy. [12:30] Dissatisfaction in a committed couple’s sex history. [18:50] Do men know how to ask for what they want? [24:05] Dysfunction is the greatest motivator for couples sex therapy. [28:38] What does ‘better sex’ really look like? [31:12] How body image impacts sexuality as we age.   RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Free Sexual Addiction Screening Assessment Partner Sexuality Survey Dr. Jenn Kennedy   Seeking Integrity Podcasts are produced in partnership with Podfly Productions.   QUOTES: ● “The bedroom is a microcosm of the larger life.” ● “50 and beyond, more and more men are going to start having erectile dysfunction.” ● “The quality of the relationship has to feel work the tradeoff of the objectification of youth.” ● “When they’re able to articulate it, men say they want to be wanted.” ● “Your motivation to having sex matters.”