Karen Yeung on evidence use in AI policymaking

Should scientists get involved in public campaigning, lobbying or advocating for causes close to their heart — or close to their research? If so, what are the responsibilities of scientists and their employing institutions — and what are the potential pitfalls? In this episode, Toby Wardman takes a deep dive into these questions with Professor Eric Guilyardi, a member of the ethics committee of the French national centre for scientific research, and the co-author of its opinion on public advocacy by scientists.

We often shine the spotlight on the advisors whose high-profile work comes at the end of the science advice process, and on the academics whose research it's based on. But there is a third important actor in this process, often working informally, sometimes moving in the shadows – the faceless bureaucrat or administrator. Alessandro Allegra dedicated his PhD studies to analysing the role of science advice secretariats, what they do, and how formal that role should be. And he spills the beans to Toby Wardman in this episode.

People are forever saying that science advice should not just be about the natural sciences, but also about the social sciences, humanities and arts. And yet lumping those three categories together conceals a host of interesting complications. The contribution of the social sciences and humanities to policymaking is relatively easy to conceptualise, even if sometimes challenging in execution. But the arts? How can artists contribute to research, add to scientific evidence, or have an impact on scientific advice to policy? Or is the role of art limited to public engagement? In this episode, two working physicists who are also artists, Clara Roca-Sastre and Andrea Heilrath, explore this topic in dialogue with Toby Wardman, our own science communicator who is also an artist. Enjoy!

Karen Yeung is an interdisciplinary professor at the University of Birmingham, specialising in AI. In this episode, she discusses with Toby Wardman the uses of AI in evidence-based policymaking, and the uses of evidence in AI policymaking.

Mikel Landabaso, Director for Fair and Sustainable Economy in the European Commission’s Joint Research Centre, knows a fair few things about the role of science and technology innovation in informing regional development policy and promoting regeneration. In this episode, he talks to Toby Wardman about how it works, how his advice has been taken, and the strategies to adopt when policymakers or stakeholders aren't able to appreciate it on its own terms.

How do you bring scientists and policymakers together to generate creative solutions to thorny problems? How can you engineer a conversation on controversial issues that builds trust between allies rather than alienating opponents? And what's the secret to overcoming cynicism about either the process or the outcome?   With a background in history, business and journalism, Maggie Dugan has wisdom to share on all these questions and more!

The Finnish Academy of Science and Letters has been active in the science-for-policy space in Finland for decades, including in recent years playing a leading role in setting up an important science advice mechanism for the Finnish government. Now it has also published a comprehensive handbook for researchers, with advice and practical exercises to help guide them in their first steps in policy engagement. In this episode, Linda Lammensalo talks to Toby Wardman about what's in the handbook and why. Resources mentioned in this episode Finnish academy handbook: https://acadsci.fi/en/publications/a-new-handbook-provides-tools-for-researchers-in-the-science-policy-interface/ Science Europe guidance: https://www.scienceeurope.org/our-resources/guidance-science-for-policy/ 

What does our most advanced AI, trained on the sum total of all human knowledge, have to say about the challenges of the science-policy interface? And can it tell a good joke? (Hint: The answer to that one is no.)

Welcome to our 100th episode! This one comes to you complete with a live audience at the University of Helsinki, kindly hosted by the SRI Congress 2024. Debating questions Warm-up debates: (1) We should get rid of daylight saving time. (2) How would a dog wear trousers? Hind legs only, or all four legs on the bottom half of its body? (3) In which order do you put on socks and shoes? Sock sock shoe shoe, or sock shoe sock shoe?   Substantive debates: (1) Science advice organisations should welcome researchers who have connections to industry or campaign groups. (2) As a science advisor, I'm OK with my research being used by everyone in the policymaking process. (3) As a science advisor, it's OK to have private conversations with a policymaker. (4) As a science advisor, I should present only the evidence. Interpreting that evidence is the policymaker's job. (5) It's my duty as a scientist to lobby for changes in society, based on the evidence as I see it. (6) If a policymaker wants a simple answer from science, I should give them one. (7) When there isn't enough data for a robust evidence-based answer, I should give my best guess. (8) When scientists disagree on a controversial issue, I should present my own view on what the evidence says. (9) If the politicians make a decision which really goes against my advice, it's my duty to speak out publicly against it. (10) As a science advisor, I should try to present different stakeholder positions, such as those of affected communities.   Resources mentioned in this episode SRI Congress 2024: https://sricongress.org/home/about-sri2024/ The noble vibraslap, queen of percussion instruments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibraslap Spotify playlist featuring the vibraslap: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3pXPF32AkTNcRfNswxnaWq?si=bdb62b8d74dd4151 

There are many different ways to make policies, and many different ways for science and evidence to impact on those policies. In western liberal democracies, we tend to focus on our specific, forgetting that across the world and across history our specific way of doing things is not the only way.   Claudia Chwalisz, from the think-tank DemocracyNext, has spent a lot of time thinking about alternative ways to govern our societies, especially when it comes to dealing with challenges that are scientifically or morally complex. In this episode, she talks to Toby Wardman about how alternative decision-making processes could work, and whether they would strengthen or change the roles of science, evidence and expertise in deliberation.   Resources mentioned in this episode DemocracyNext: https://www.demnext.org/