#134 Gawain Smart - CEO of International Campus Group

From billion-euro retail deals to leading Europe’s largest apartment hotel operator, and now steering one of the fastest-growing healthcare real estate platforms, Simon Betty’s career has spanned multiple cycles, asset classes, and countries. In this episode, Simon shares how his early career choices set him on a path into retail, how he navigated Hammerson through some of its most challenging moments, and what it was really like to run the €2.5B Project Jewel transaction in Ireland. We dive into the lessons he learned leading through the brutality of Covid, why the macro always wins in real estate, and how healthcare has become one of the most thematically supported sectors in Europe today. This is a candid conversation about deals, leadership, and how to thrive in sectors that are built for the future. Key Topics Covered In This Episode: ✅ Project Jewel – Inside the high-stakes €2.5B Ireland loan portfolio acquisition ✅ Retail Realities – The brutal impact of Covid and the £800M rescue rights issue ✅ Macro vs Micro – Why timing beats talent in determining real estate returns ✅ Leadership Lessons – How saying “yes” shaped his career across multiple sectors ✅ Hospitality Shift – What running Adina taught him about operations and culture ✅ Healthcare Growth – Why cure-based facilities are becoming Europe’s next big asset class ✅ The Future – Where capital is heading in European real estate over the next decade Oh, and one last thing… In every episode, I ask each guest: Who are the People, what Property, and which Place they would invest in if they had £500m at their disposal? Don’t miss Simon’s answer in this episode! Got any thoughts or questions about this podcast? Feel free to share them in the comments, I’m always up for a chat! And if you’re enjoying what I’m putting out, don’t forget to hit subscribe and turn on the notification bell so you’ll never miss out on the next podcast. 🎧 Listen On: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6oCDnwWSTP685l6sn8F0a6 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/people-property-place/id1652694140 The People Property Place Podcast is powered by Rockbourne – Recruiting Leadership & Future Leadership hires for Real Estate Funds, Owners, Investors & Developers. You can also connect with me on social media, I’d love to hear from you there too. Thanks again for hanging out with me! Subscribe To My Channel For More Videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLeY7xnoJ08uYlGb-Y0j96A 🔊 LIKE ➡ SHARE ➡ SUBSCRIBE ► Rockbourne Website: www.rockbourne.com ► PPP Podcast LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/people-property-place-podcast/about/?viewAsMember=true ► Matthew Watts LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-watts-51575a57/ ► Business Enquiries: [email protected]

Leo Shapland, Chief Executive of the King’s Cross Estate, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ this week. He reflects on his formative experiences at Brookfield Multiplex, to building international platforms at Tishman Speyer, returning to London with Aviva, then leading at Workspace before taking on his current role overseeing one of Europe’s most successful regeneration projects. Leo reflects on career pivots between investment, development, and leadership, the lessons learned on his journey. He shares candid thoughts on today’s market dynamics, and what it really takes to run a complex, mixed-use estate that attracts 20 million visitors a year. If you’re interested in global real estate careers, platform-building, large-scale regeneration, or the future of London’s office and mixed-use market, this episode is for you.   Key Topics Covered in This Episode: •         How watching the regeneration of Shad Thames sparked his interest in real estate. •         Leaving Cushman after just two days to join Multiplex, taking on pan-European acquisitions in his early 20s. •         What a decade at Tishman Speyer taught him about capital raising, transactions, and development. •         Lessons from moving abroad: delivering large office and residential projects in San Francisco and opening Tishman’s Seattle office. •         Why he shifted from pure investment to broaden out into development, operations, and leadership. •         Returning to London: Aviva Investors, governance, ESG, and making countercyclical bets during Covid. •         The Workspace experience: working closely with entrepreneurial SME customers and running a vertically integrated platform. •         Why Kings Cross is, in his view, one of Europe’s best regeneration schemes - and what the future looks like •         His take on the market – where demand is strongest and what is the hardest to make work right now.   And finally... With £500m to invest, which People, what Property, and which Place would he choose? Enjoying the show? Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode. The People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ is powered by Rockbourne: Giving real estate investors a difficult choice, who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn.   #realestate #property #podcast #placemaking #regeneration #realestateinvestment #kingscross #London

Jay Kwan, Managing Director and Head of Europe at QuadReal Property Group, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast  this week. We cover Jay’s global journey from humble beginnings in LA, to Lehman Brothers, to leading international investment teams at Soros and TPG, and now spearheading QuadReal’s growth across Europe. Jay shares hard-won lessons on capital cycles, navigating workouts, and building trust-based partnerships across multiple markets. He breaks down the thinking behind QuadReal’s platform strategy, sector convictions, and how they deploy long-term capital flexibly across the risk curve. If you're interested in global real estate investing, institutional capital, platform-building, or market timing, this episode is worth your time. Key Topics Covered in This Episode: •          Breaking into real estate through Lehman Brothers and surviving the “Squid Game” analyst culling •          Gaining an edge through international experience across Asia, Europe, the US and Russia •          Learning through workouts, restructurings and JV fallouts that shaped his investment approach •          Building QuadReal in Europe from scratch. First hires, first deals, and their conviction-led strategy •          Why cultural and ethical alignment matter more than strategy •          Want to partner with QuadReal? Jay shares what they look for in an operating partner •          Navigating market uncertainty and geopolitical risk while staying agile •          The myth of permanence and how sectors can shift faster than expected ·    Why you shouldn’t chase a pay cheque, instead focus on stacking skills, take international chances, and look for asymmetric opportunities. And finally... With £500m to invest, which People, what Property, and which Place would he choose? Enjoying the show? Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode. The People Property Place Podcast  is powered by Rockbourne: Giving real estate investors a difficult choice, who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn. #realestate #privateequity #property #podcast #investor

James Craig, Co-Founder of Oval Real Estate, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast this week.   We discuss James’s journey from surveying to running a diversified real estate investment business. He reflects on pivotal career decisions, key deals, and the thinking behind Oval’s sector-agnostic strategy.   James shares lessons from launching Oval in a down market, building high-trust partnerships, and navigating complex development and regeneration projects. He also gives his view on current market dynamics, the role of public-private collaboration, and what it takes to build a successful, enduring real estate business.   If you're interested in real estate entrepreneurship, platform-building, public-sector partnership, or value-add investing, this episode is for you.   Key Topics Covered in This Episode:   ·       Betting on Fit Over Convention ·       Why he walked away from his APC and corporate surveying path early, in favour of an entrepreneurial property trading-led environment. ·       Skill stacking – how he learned to originate, manage, and exit deals across Europe ·       Reality of trying, (unsuccessfully) to match deals with capital, and the lessons learnt ·       Oval’s origin story, approach to business, investment thesis and partnership philosophy ·       How they have pivoted during market cycles, and have deliberately avoided single-sector exposure. ·       Inside scoop on what it takes to have a successful public & private partnership ·       We discuss key deals, from Digbeth and the Langham Estate to Mayfair offices and the £900m Henderson portfolio ·       Message to would-be founders: "Don’t wait. It doesn’t matter if it’s a good or bad market. You’ve just got to go for it."   And finally... With £500m to invest, which People, what Property, and which Place would he choose?   Enjoying the show?   Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode.   The People Property Place Podcast  is powered by Rockbourne: Giving real estate investors a difficult choice, who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn.   #realestate #property #podcast #regeneration #realestateinvestment #placemaking #offices #birmingham #london

Kevin Mofid, Head of Industrial & Logistics Research at Savills, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ this week. We discuss his journey into real estate, the evolution of research in the sector, and key insights into the UK and European logistics markets. Kevin shares his data-driven view of market trends, rental growth dynamics, build-to-suit versus existing stock, and the increasing importance of supply-side fundamentals when making investment decisions. If you're active in the industrial or logistics real estate market across the UK & Europe, and you're interested in data-driven decision-making, or the forces shaping demand and supply in the sector, this episode is for you. Key Topics Covered in This Episode: ·       Kevin’s unconventional path into real estate, and his pivotal early career moves ·       The evolution of research from a back-office function to a front-line, strategic, in demand tool ·       What the UK logistics data is really showing, and why build-to-suit deals are under pressure ·       Rising vacancy in a market with strong demand, and what that disconnect tells us ·       Speculative development trends, and how they’re shaping short-term supply risks ·       Why second-hand stock is growing fast, and how much of it is actually usable ·       The real drivers of industrial demand, and why retail still dominates ·       Nearshoring, reshoring, and how they are reshaping long-term European strategy ·       Rental growth that’s defying historic vacancy relationships, and why ·       The evolving role of AI in warehousing and supply chain decision-making ·       Why smart investors are prioritising supply-side data over demand forecasts ·       Kevin’s take on the biggest risk facing the sector today, and the data point he’s watching most closely Enjoying the show? Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode. The People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ is powered by Rockbourne: Giving real estate investors a difficult choice, who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn. #realestate #property #podcast #logistics #data #industrial

Philip Stott, Co-Founder of Caisson IO, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast this week. We discuss his early career journey to co-founding Caisson IO, a boutique investment management firm that integrates data and technology to, invest and manage multi-let industrial assets across the UK. Philip shares valuable insights on the role of data in real estate, building a tech-enabled investment platform, and how their approach to asset management has evolved. If you're interested in real estate investment management, data-driven strategies, or scaling a specialised platform in the industrial sector, this episode is for you.   Key Topics Covered in This Episode: ·   Early exposure to real estate and how Philip’s family business influenced his entrepreneurial mindset ·   How Philip’s career evolved from traditional surveying to tech sales and then pivoting into investment management ·   Insights from his experience at Yardi, including building their European platform and understanding financial systems and applying this learing to the investment management space ·   How they launched the business - raising capital from friends and family ·   How data-driven insights help Caisson IO identify market trends and opportunities in multi-let industrial assets ·   The resilience and appeal of multi-let industrial assets as a stable income-generating asset class ·   Building a strong, collaborative team and fostering a culture of empowerment for business growth ·   Caisson IO’s plans for future growth, leveraging specialixed expertise and data-backed strategies   And finally... With £500m to invest, which People, what Property, and which Place would Philip choose? Enjoying the show? Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode. The People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ is powered by Rockbourne: Giving real estate investors a difficult choice, who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn.

Philip Gadsden, Managing Partner at Orchard Street Investment Management, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ this week. We cover his 40+ year career in institutional real estate - from Jones Lang Wootton and Gatehouse, to building Invista, and now leading Orchard Street’s shift into impact investing. We get into his views on separate accounts, discretionary capital, asset-level execution, decarbonisation, and the evolution of investor expectations. If you’re interested in UK fund management and real estate’s shift toward ESG and impact, this one’s for you. Key Topics Covered in This Episode: Why he chose real estate as a career, and the early moves that shaped his career Lessons learnt from launching his own business Launching one of the UK’s first impact-led real estate funds in partnership with Brunel and Access The market’s shift toward responsible investing, ESG metrics, and decarbonisation targets Evolution of the UK Fund Management space Why shorter leases and active management are now even more essential to driving returns and mitigate risk The opportunity set in industrial, retail parks, and residential Why OSIM are focused on future proofing second-hand assets given that 80% of 2050’s buildings already exist And finally... With £500m to invest, which People, what Property, and which Place would Philip choose? Enjoying the show? Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode. The People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ is powered by Rockbourne: Giving real estate investors a difficult choice of who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn, lets talk!   

Marcus Meijer, Founder and CEO of MARK, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ this week. We talk through his journey from third-generation developer to building one of Europe’s leading independent investment managers. We get into how Marcus thinks about platform creation, market timing, team building, and where he sees the next wave of opportunity. If you're interested in real estate private equity, specialist strategies, or scaling across Europe, this one’s for you.   Key Topics Covered in This Episode: ·    Growing up around real estate and what he learned from early exposure to market cycles ·    Lessons from Hines and Goldman Sachs that shaped how he builds teams and makes decisions ·    The origins of MARK and how they raised their first fund ·    Pivoting away from generalist value-add funds and toward sector-specific platforms ·    How they built VR Outlets into a €1bn+ platform with APG and Value Retail ·    Lessons learnt from Crossbay 1 and the validation from the sale to Prologis, and plans for Crossbay 2 ·    How winning third-party mandates leverage the existing teams’ skills, and generate fees while giving MARK an investment edge ·    His take on the market, the challenges, opportunities and future of real estate ·    What success looks like to Marcus and how he thinks about legacy and ownership   And finally... With £500m to invest, which People, what Property, and which Place would Marcus choose? Enjoying the show? Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode. The People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ is powered by Rockbourne: Giving real estate investors a difficult choice, who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn. #realestate #property #podcast #privateequity

Jon Lurie, Founder of Realty Corporation, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ this week. We talk through his journey from accidental landlord to managing billions at Goldman Sachs and Blackstone and why he decided to launch his own real estate investment firm. We get into how Jon navigates cycles, build conviction-led investment themes, and why real estate is no longer guaranteed a spot in capital allocators portfolios. If you're interested in private equity real estate, platform building, or contrarian value creation, this one's for you.   Key Topics Covered in This Episode: ·   How inheriting a small office building and studying game theory shaped his thinking early on ·   Badge collecting – the reasons for the moves, and lessons learnt for working at some of the worlds leading institutions ·   How he survived the GFC at Goldman and what kept him in the room ·   Reflections from building real estate platforms at scale across Europe at Blackstone ·   How balancing asset-level detail and macro conviction has enabled outperformance ·   Why he left Blackstone to launch Realty ·   Why he believes in conviction-led investment strategies rooted in deep research ·   What ties UK student housing, German distress, and data centres together ·   Why real estate has lost its automatic seat in institutional portfolios and what it must do to win it back   And finally... With £500m to invest, which People, what Property, and which Place would Jon choose? Enjoying the show? Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode. The People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ is powered by Rockbourne: Giving Real Estate Investors a difficult choice, who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn.  

Gawain Smart, CEO of International Campus Group, joins me on the People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ this week. We talk through his journey from a legal career in Canada and Wall Street to running one of Europe’s largest living sector platforms. We get into what it takes to scale and professionalise a private equity-backed real estate business, how to lead through change, and what’s coming next for European student and co-living assets. If you're interested in operational real estate, business building, or managing complex international platforms, this one's for you.   Key Topics Covered in This Episode: • Breaking free from early career inertia • Moving from execution to leadership and why being a generalist matters • What it really means to institutionalise a founder-led business • Building the right team and why people issues make or break a CEO • Growing ICG’s AUM to a mammoth €1.9bn across Europe • How to prioritise when everything feels urgent • Co-living vs student housing and why ICG focuses on both • The value of local teams in pan-European investing • Structuring pan-European teams and deal flow and why patience is critical • Why European PBSA is still in its infancy and where the real supply/demand gap lies • Capital flows shifting into Europe and what’s attracting investors right now • How AI will reshape talent, workflows, and decision-making   And finally... With £500m to invest, which People, what Property, and which Place would Gawain choose? Enjoying the show? Follow and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode. The People Property Place Podcast 🎙️ is powered by Rockbourne: Giving Real Estate Investors a difficult choice, who to hire. If you're serious about hiring top real estate talent in 2025 and want to do it differently, DM me on LinkedIn.