Pulses Towards Power, with Conner Galloway & Alexander Valys (Co-Founders of Xcimer Energy)

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Xcimer Energy’s cofounders, Conner Galloway and Alexander Valys, to unpack one of the boldest bets in fusion: resurrecting a Cold War-era laser technology to build the fastest, most scalable path to commercial fusion power.Xcimer has raised over $100 million to bring its inertial confinement fusion system to life, starting with LPK, a high-powered prototype laser built in just four months, and progressing toward Vulcan, a full-scale, ignition-class reactor designed for the grid. We also discuss:Why excimer lasers are making a comebackWhat Xcimer learned from building LPK in just four monthsThe Phoenix-to-Vulcan roadmap for commercial fusionLessons from NIF’s ignition milestone and its limitsThe case for fusion as infrastructure, not just scienceHow Xcimer is positioning itself in a crowded fusion landscape…and much, more. • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:24 – Payload Pro02:06 – Recent changes in fusion03:29 – Commercial fusion and perceptions on the tech05:18 – Founding story of Xcimer06:51 – Common approaches to fusion today08:48 – Was the National Ignition Facility (NIF) the catalyst to start Xcimer?12:22 – Convincing investors to invest $100m into Xcimer13:34 – What is NIF's goal right now and can it produce electricity?18:04 – Why hasn't the private sector solved the fusion problem?20:25 – Xcimer progress report23:07 – Xcimer's roadmap for the next bigger machine24:41 – Coming up with Athena25:33 – Addressing neutron damage29:54 – The biggest unknown for Xcimer32:29 – Who are Xcimer's first customers35:03 – Cost per megawatt per hour to be competitive37:23 – How much of Xcimer's supply chain is being verticalized38:48 – Vaporizing a missile with a laser41:27 – Other fusion companies Alex and Connor admire44:28 – What inspires a founder or engineer to pursue less proven fusion methods?47:28 – What drives Alex and Connor to keep on going?49:02 – First commercial Xcimer fusion plant • Show notes •Xcimer’s website — https://xcimer.energy/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com 

Mikkel Vestergaard isn’t a typical aerospace founder. Before building solar-powered stratospheric airships, he spent two decades in humanitarian innovation, distributing a billion malaria nets, co-creating the LifeStraw, and helping eradicate Guinea worm disease. Now, as CEO of Sceye, he’s applying that same ethos to aerospace.In this conversation, Mikkel dives deep into the origins, design, and future of High-Altitude Platform Systems (HAPS). We explore why the stratosphere is emerging as a new layer of infrastructure, filling the gap between satellites and towers, and how Sceye’s helium-filled, solar-powered airships could reshape internet connectivity, earth observation, and national security.We cover:Why Mikkel pivoted from global health to aerospaceThe engineering that makes persistent stratospheric flight possibleHow Sceye closes the “power loop” to stay aloft for monthsCommercial applications from telecom to methane detectionStrategic partnerships with SoftBank, América Móvil, and MawaridThe defense potential of HAPSThe business model behind “infrastructure as a service”What it takes to build investor conviction around a platform that feels left-field• Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:52 – Life before Sceye02:51 – Work at Lifestraw06:31 – What is Lifestraw?07:50 – Making the pivot from global health to aerospace and working at Sceye10:52 – HAPS or High-Altitude Platform Systems12:25 – Why choose a balloon over a fixed wing aircraft?14:04 – Types of payloads16:06 – Not Hindenburg 2.016:48 – How Mikkel's earlier material science experience shaped Sceye's design decisions18:09 – Pitching Sceye to investors19:16 – Common misconceptions of stratospheric platforms20:41 – What can HAPS do for the telecommunications industry?25:03 – How many HAPS would we need to provide global coverage?25:24 – Sceye's equity investor partners26:00 – When Sceye will be fully commercialized28:34 – Other use cases31:33 – Advantages over satellites32:34 – National security use cases33:31 – The business model of HAPS34:52 – Sceye's next iteration of customers35:40 – How Sceye is building their team36:56 – Manufacturing process and scaling37:53 – Capital to scale38:25 – What keeps Mikkel up at night39:38 – What does success to Sceye look like • Show notes •SCEYE’s website — https://sceye.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Julien Barber is an investor at Emerson Collective, a venture and policy firm founded by Laurene Powell Jobs, where he backs bold bets on decarbonization, infrastructure, and long-horizon climate technologies. Before becoming an investor, Julien researched fusion energy at MIT and co-founded a carbon-tech startup. In today’s episode, we go deep into Julien’s investing philosophy, Emerson’s unique model, and the hard tech categories he believes are most undercapitalized.We cover:Why Emerson is structured for risk others can’t takeFusion, fission, and the evolving energy stackAI’s impact on power demand and hardware accelerationHow to invest when the grid is the bottleneckBuilding conviction in hard tech when capital is scarcePublic vs. private roles in scaling fusionWhat a 7-million-fold increase in energy density may actually look like• Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:49 – From scientist to investor04:37 – Why Julien chose fusion08:57 – Investment process at Emerson10:08 – The team at Emerson12:15 – Is Emerson consensus-driven and why is it an LLC?14:07 – Under-invested areas in climate & industrial tech17:24 – Are AI valuations reasonable today?18:59 – Bottlenecks in the grid23:11 – AI energy consumption: hype or real concern?27:10 – Bridging the energy gap29:20 – Fusion’s role in the next decade31:24 – Google & Commonwealth Fusion: serious commercial signal?32:37 – Are we underinvesting in fusion?39:12 – Who will reach commercial fusion first?41:36 – 30-year future if fusion succeeds • Show notes •Emerson’s socials — https://x.com/emcollectiveEmerson’s website — https://www.emersoncollective.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Welcome to a special Tuesday-edition of Valley of Depth, powered by Integrate.John Conafay spent years inside the space and defense worlds, from Spire to Astranis to the U.S. Air Force, and saw the same problem everywhere: complex programs were managed with spreadsheets, slide decks, and…crossed fingers. So in 2022, he founded Integrate to fix it. What started as a scrappy startup with five engineers has since landed what he describes as one of the largest software contracts in Space Force history. We discuss: Why defense programs are still run on outdated, fragmented toolsWhat Integrate actually does and how it’s different from Smartsheet or Microsoft ProjectHow Conafay won a $25M Space Force contractThe architecture choices behind real-time collaboration in classified environmentsWhy internal tools and status quo software can’t scale with complexityAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:57 – John's background02:59 – What is Integrate?04:02 – Pain points in complex project management06:08 – John's interest in aerospace10:01 – Core product at Integrate11:20 – Why tools weren't implemented before12:50 – DoD project management & efficiency loss14:29 – Multiplayer coordination approach16:19 – Hardest integration problem17:40 – Security architecture20:17 – Go-to-market & government entry22:18 – $25M Space Force contract26:14 – Future Space Force goals27:59 – Government vs commercial customers29:16 – Pricing30:13 – Profitability, team, funding, scaling32:23 – Ideal investor33:20 – Competitors34:50 – Competing with internal tools36:01 – 10-year product vision37:36 – Strategic risks in the next decade39:42 – Hardest part of building Integrate41:34 – Misconceptions about working with the DoD42:55 – Advice for founders & younger self43:53 – John in another life • Show notes •John’s socials — https://x.com/jconafayIntegrate’s socials —https://x.com/Integrate_coIntegrate’s website — https://integrate.co/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/  • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Chris Kemp took Astra public in 2021 with a bold vision: low-cost rockets launching daily, bringing sovereign space access to every country on Earth. At its peak, the company was worth over $2 billion. Within two years, that valuation collapsed by 99%. In this episode of Valley of Depth, we go inside one of the most dramatic flameouts and attempted comebacks in the commercial space era. We discuss:Why Astra’s SPAC-era promises didn’t survive contact with realityWhat really went wrong with Rocket 3 and how much of that falls on KempThe decision to take the company private and buy it back for pennies on the dollarHow Astra raised $80M, and its attempt to raise another $100M+The quiet success of its satellite propulsion businessRocket 4, and whether this time is actually differentHow Kemp is repositioning Astra as a mobile, defense-aligned launch platform • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:53 – What's happened since 2022?02:58 – What kept Astra going after test flight failures?06:46 – Did Astra's engineering approach work against them?08:15 – What Chris believes he got wrong12:51 – Has Chris questioned his leadership at Astra?14:37 – What would Chris have done differently?16:34 – Taking Astra private & investor reactions20:58 – What Chris saw more than anyone else22:20 – Team and factory space at Astra23:20 – Chris's philosophy on rocket building25:54 – Rocket 4 vs Rocket 330:35 – Astra’s renewed business model34:11 – Why is Rocket Lab valued at $16B?36:21 – Engine business & customer trust39:25 – NASA & Astra39:49 – Post-privatization investment45:18 – The team at Astra47:08 – What went wrong with Astra's infamous flight47:54 – Chris's evolving leadership style50:05 – Chris's hardest moment at Astra50:49 – Unfair criticisms of Chris51:54 – What present Chris would tell past Chris53:12 – What keeps Chris going54:57 – Would Astra go public again?57:51 – Astra milestones to watch • Show notes •Chris’ socials — https://x.com/KempAstra’s socials —https://x.com/astraAstra’s website — https://astra.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Jeff Thornburg helped build Raptor at SpaceX. Now he’s building something new: a spacecraft designed for rapid maneuverability across orbits powered by solar thermal propulsion.In this episode of Valley of Depth, we get into the technical, strategic, and commercial implications of in-space mobility and why it matters now. Topics include:The hardest parts of building a rocket engine (and why most startups get it wrong)The origins of the Raptor engine and lessons from SpaceXWhy Portal is betting on solar thermal propulsionHow Supernova enables fast, responsive movement across LEO, MEO, and GEOThe case for refueling in orbit and designing without dependenciesWhy defense needs faster spacecraft and what commercial use cases followHow Thornburg sees Starship changing the economics of spaceand much more… • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:44 – What drew Jeff to creating engines?05:13 – Why is building rocket engines still so difficult?11:50 – Jeff's time at SpaceX17:52 – Stratolaunch and Commonwealth Fusion and why Jeff moved on22:50 – Origin of Portal25:25 – Commercial use case27:00 – 5 year vision for Portal's architecture32:01 – Pricing34:52 – Solar thermal propulsion38:14 – What comes after Portal's Supernova?41:15 – Customer traction and Supernova flight45:44 – Competition in solar thermal propulsion49:20 – Fundraising prior to the first launch51:18 – Portal in the next 10 years54:53 – State of Starship • Show notes •Jeff’s socials — https://x.com/JeffThornburgAntares’ socials — https://x.com/PortalSpaceSysAntares’ website — https://www.portalsystems.space/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

In the wake of new executive orders elevating nuclear energy as a national security priority, there’s growing momentum—and urgency—behind advanced fission technologies. Few are better positioned to talk about this shift than Jordan Bramble, co-founder and CEO of Antares Nuclear, a startup building microreactors for defense and space.In this episode of Valley of Depth, we explore the strategic, technical, and geopolitical dimensions driving the nuclear renaissance. We cover:• Why microreactors are built for strategic energy and not just the grid• The real story behind public support for nuclear energy• How Antares plans to deploy sub-megawatt nuclear systems on U.S. military installations• The challenges of fuel supply, regulation, and capital• Why China is pulling ahead and what the U.S. must do to catch up• Nuclear-powered space assets and propulsion• Why Jordan believes venture-scale outcomes are coming to nuclear energy • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:56 - Payload Pro01:39 - State of fission03:38 - Is renewed nuclear interest driven by political or environmental factors?05:23 - Are small modular reactors (SMRs) going to replace large, conventional nuclear reactors?07:31 - Is nuclear still a controversial topic?09:27 - Cultural legacy of nuclear in media11:49 - Antares and how Jordan got into nuclear14:16 - What does 1 Megawatt mean?15:53 - Game changing environments for Antares's SMR19:30 - Terrestrial business model20:39 - Nuclear fuel supply chain21:35 - Current state and future prediction of fuel pipeline23:42 - Safety in contested environments26:49 - Hardest technical challenges29:52 - What will it take to get to their first electron31:23 - Competition34:27 - US vs its adversaries36:29 - Navigating regulatory guidelines38:10 - Impact of Trump's Executive Orders40:03 - NRC41:12 - Are we living in a VC renaissance for nuclear?44:05 - What drives Jordan to work on nuclear?46:30 - For those afraid of nuclear • Show notes •Jordan’s socials — https://x.com/jordanbrambleAntares’ socials — https://x.com/AntaresNuclearAntares’ website — https://boomsupersonic.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/  • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.• Payload: www.payloadspace.com• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

In a major shift, the U.S. government is moving to overturn a 50-year ban on civilian supersonic flight over land—a regulation that’s defined the boundaries of commercial aviation since 1973. It’s a pivotal moment for aerospace, and a timely one for this conversation with Blake Scholl, founder and CEO of Boom Supersonic.In this episode of Valley of Depth, we dive into the political, technical, and economic forces driving the return of high-speed air travel. We cover:Why the U.S. banned supersonic flight and why that’s finally changingHow Boom plans to make supersonic flight sustainable and commercially viableThe decision to build a new engine in-house after legacy players stepped awayWhat the real economics of airline orders look like and who’s truly onboardHow regulatory shifts, geopolitical dynamics, and climate pressure intersectAnd why Blake believes faster travel isn’t just a luxury, it’s a necessity…and much more. • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:07 - Payload Pro ad01:49 - Supersonic ban repeal03:48 - Why were supersonic planes banned in the first place?08:47 - Next steps for supersonic11:10 - How long until we get a supersonic jet?12:34 - Why Blake started Boom16:00 - Why now for supersonic?18:23 - State of China's commercial supersonic space19:48 - Boom Supersonic's engines23:56 - When will the Symphony Engine having a working model?29:09 - Engineer challenges beyond the engine29:52 - Engineering the quiet boom33:49 - What does a sonic boom sound and feel like?36:11 - Vertical integration38:05 - Routes that Overture would fly first38:47 - How much capital would Boom Supersonic need to build their first plane?40:12 - What did Aerion get wrong?44:22 - What will the supersonic competition look like?45:35 - Northrop Grumman partnership49:58 - Blake's mission behind Boom52:60 - What will Boom look like in the future? • Show notes •Boom Supersonic’s socials — https://x.com/boomaeroBlake’s socials — https://x.com/bschollBoom’s website — https://boomsupersonic.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

If the next great war is fought in space, Even Rogers wants the U.S. to be ready. On this episode of Valley of Depth, the True Anomaly CEO and former Air Force weapons officer joins us to break down how he’s building autonomous systems for space superiority and why space is the next warfighting domain. A graduate of the Air Force Weapons School, Even brings rare tactical and strategic insight into how the U.S. must fight and win in orbit. In this episode, we unpack the doctrine, technology, and strategy shaping the next phase of military competition in space. We cover: Why 2007 was the turning point for space as a warfighting domainHow to think about offense, deterrence, and domain control in orbitWhat the Space Force needs—and why $60B is the real numberThe role of private industry vs. the primes in defense innovationGolden Dome, missile defense, and the future of space-based interceptors…plus how we may one day have Guardians stationed permanently in space.Check out Valley of Depth #007 on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:57 - Payload Pro01:39 - True Anomaly's mission02:51 - How Even started the company04:02 - $220m Series C05:48 - When did space become a place to defend?09:20 - The challenge to US space dominance11:16 - What made Even realize that the US was unprepared?16:05 - What does space superiority look like?17:49 - What does space warfare actually mean?21:48 - The R&D the Space Force needs24:01 - What it meant to form the Space Force27:11 - The cultural shift on the Space Force30:49 - Current US Space capabilities and gaps32:44 - Why was the Space Force budget cut despite its importance?35:06 - Primes and the US's space capabilities37:12 - Procurement for the space domain41:29 - Space components of the Golden Dome43:35 - Phases of a ballistic missile44:56 - Intercepting missiles at its boost phase46:15 - What to prioritize today for space superiority49:20 - Guardians in space51:20 - Moon & Mars52:40 - Lessons learned for the next True Anomaly mission56:01 - What is the strategic impact True Anomaly is hoping to have?57:31 - Will NASA blur the lines between civil and military? • Show notes •True Anomaly’s socials — https://x.com/the_trueanomalyEven’s socials — https://x.com/jollyrogerstaTrue Anomaly’s website — https://www.trueanomaly.space/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Paul Lwin, co-founder and CEO of Havoc AI—a builder of integrated hardware, software, and logistics that enables collaborative, autonomous maritime operations. A former Navy test pilot and electronic warfare officer, Paul saw firsthand the strategic challenge posed by China’s industrial scale in the Pacific and set out to build an asymmetric answer.In this episode, Paul shares how Havoc went from pre-seed to delivering 40+ autonomous vessels in just 18 months, what it takes to deploy real autonomy in contested environments, and why the Navy forced them to sell their early prototypes. We also cover:Why Havoc built 12 USVs with just 5 people and a $1.2M pre-seedHow Ukraine’s naval tactics shifted the Pentagon’s mindsetThe difference between platform, mission, and decision autonomyWhy primes can’t match Havoc’s pace—or price pointHow Replicator changed the rules for startup engagement with DoDWhat it’ll take to get thousands of autonomous boats into the Pacific…and much more.Check out VoD #006 on…YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters •0:00 - Intro1:07 - Company Mission & Vision3:43 - DoD Autonomous Exercise Demonstration6:41 - Funding to Demo Timeline8:43 - Founding Team & Headquarters10:19 - Market Demand for Autonomous Maritime Tech12:42 - Vertical Integration Strategy14:30 - US Navy Capability Gaps16:24 - Geopolitics & Business Strategy17:40 - Product Architecture Roadmap21:21 - Commercial Market Potential24:05 - Autonomy Level Achieved26:48 - Contested Environment Design28:24 - Next Frontier in Naval Tech30:04 - Scaling for DoD Requirements32:09 - Competitive Differentiation33:48 - Prime Contractor Advantages35:21 - Replicator Initiative Impact36:19 - Buyer Incentive Structures37:44 - Desired Policy Changes39:09 - Scaling Funding Requirements40:35 - Defining Mission Success • Show notes •Havoc’s socials — https://x.com/HavocAi_USVMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com