Tokenized Stocks and Global Liquidity with Armani Ferrante CEO of Backpack | EP 169

Armani Ferrante, Founder and CEO of Backpack, joins me to talk about tokenized stocks and the next phase of global capital markets.We discuss the different tokenization models, why redeemability and liquidity matter, and Backpack's ambition to connect traditional markets with Solana. We also get into the licensed path, Hyperliquid and Kraken, and competing with the largest exchanges.Armani explains the tokenomics of Backpack's own BP token, how growth milestones shape its allocations, and the equity-conversion option he describes for token holders who contribute to the product. We also discuss the corporate treasury and a potential future IPO.Enjoy.00:00 Highlights01:26 Armani Ferrante and Backpack03:18 Why tokenized equities matter13:05 The different models for tokenized stocks19:33 Backpack's approach to tokenized stocks28:58 Backpack's place in the market31:47 Why Backpack chose the licensed path35:25 One global liquidity layer40:00 Hyperliquid, Kraken and derivatives49:29 Competing with the incumbents53:47 Why a token launch is a starting point1:00:04 Backpack's three allocation buckets1:02:31 The treasury lockup and a potential IPO1:07:07 The option to convert BP tokens into equityFollow Armanihttps://x.com/armaniferranteBackpackhttps://backpack.exchange/

Dropping a podcast with @mdudas, Managing Partner at @6thManVenturesA crypto business can make money without that money reaching its token holders. In this episode I wanted to talk with Mike about what gives a token value and who benefits when the business grows.We get into how he built 6MV, why he invests in applications, and how he thinks about returning money to investors when a business might not stay ahead for long.A big part of the conversation is about tokens and equity. Mike thinks teams need to explain what people are buying, where the revenue goes, and how token holders benefit. We talk about buybacks and how much control holders really have.We also get into why trading apps need better assets and fewer ways for users to lose money, his views on Solana, Hyperliquid, and Ethereum, and where crypto fits into AI.We discuss- How Mike built 6MV- What makes a crypto business last- When to sell and return money to investors- Stablecoins, lending, and prediction markets- Social trading, slippage, and keeping users- Solana, Hyperliquid, and what gives ETH value- Tokens, equity, buybacks, and what holders actually own- Why Mike calls XRP and Cardano “memes for suits”- AI agents, payments, and compute markets- Whether AI companies are worth their valuationsTimestamps0:00 – What Gives Tokens Value?0:58 – Mike Dudas and the Origins of 6MV6:20 – Liquidity and Returning Capital to Investors10:16 – Real Adoption Beyond Crypto Token Prices16:56 – Crypto Apathy and the Rise of AI21:43 – Why 6MV Changed Its Consumer Investing Thesis26:34 – Social Trading, Slippage, and Better Assets36:25 – Solana, Hyperliquid, and the Chain Landscape39:37 – The Problem with ETH’s Value Proposition43:16 – Tokens, Equity, and Where the Money Goes46:21 – Governance Tokens, XRP, and Cardano49:40 – Where Crypto Meets AI55:38 – Are AI Valuations in a Bubble?58:42 – The Next Five Years of CryptoEnjoy!

Dropping a podcast with @pequityresearchMr. P has been doing some great work breaking down the AI buildout and following where hyperscaler capex actually goes. In this episode I wanted to walk through the full stack: logic, memory, power, and networking.We get into why memory could become the largest line item in the AI bill, what old GPU rental prices tell us about compute demand, and where value is going to accrue as the physical constraints get harder to solve.At the center of the conversation is his view that AI spending cannot grow forever. Long-term contracts might change the shape of the next memory downturn, but they don’t eliminate the cycle. And signing a 10-year contract does not mean anyone can actually see 10 years of demand.We also get into why he’s excited about optics, where NAND and HBF fit as agents use more memory, and his views on Chinese open source and the future of US model development.We discuss:Why he thinks 10-year demand visibility is bullshitMemory’s growing share of hyperscaler capex, and why estimates vary so muchWhy older GPUs are still renting and what that says about compute demandHow long-term agreements, pricing floors, and prepayments actually workPower as a bottleneck, and why identifying a constraint isn’t the same as finding an investmentCopper vs optics, and where networking value accruesAgents, NAND, and where HBF fits in the memory hierarchyCXMT, Chinese open source, and the risks of slowing frontier model developmentTimestamps:0:00 – Why AI Spending Can’t Grow Forever1:13 – P Equity Research’s Background5:48 – Where Hyperscaler Capex Actually Goes8:00 – Is Compute Still Tight?12:08 – Memory’s Share of the AI Bill17:20 – Why the Memory Cycle Isn’t Dead18:37 – Inside a Long-Term Agreement28:30 – What Happens If Customers Cancel?32:17 – The Rising Cost of the AI Buildout33:43 – Copper vs Optics38:49 – Power and Gas Turbines39:29 – US Models and Chinese Open Source42:36 – Agents and NAND47:00 – Where HBF Fits52:23 – What P Is Most Excited About56:27 – CXMT and China’s Memory Industry1:04:00 – Closing ThoughtsEnjoy!

Mr. Bubble is world class at explaining very technical concepts in layman terms. In this episode I wanted to chat through the 0 to 1 of the chips, racks, packaging, the memory hierarchy, scaling up and scaling out.We spend a lot of time mapping computer-architecture primitives directly onto the AI factory and examining where value is actually going to accrue as packaging, HBM, and the next memory tier mature.At the center of the conversation is the belief that the bottleneck is no longer designing a faster chip, it is the physical stack from silicon to rack. While the frontier labs settle into a more mature “closed demand” phase focused on their own silicon, their own scale-up domains, and capturing the value themselves.We also get into his view on AI alignment and the future of Labs.We discuss:The 0 to 1 of chips: what actually has to be true before a die is usefulWhy packaging is the new Moore’s lawRacks as the real unit of computeThe memory hierarchy after HBMScaling up vs scaling out, and why they get confusedWhat the labs actually want from the supply chainAI alignment, and whether the labs are aligning the world or just themselvesThe future of Labs: closed frontier, custom silicon, and who gets the modelTimestamps:0:00 – Introduction & Why Hardware Is the Real AI Conversation8:00 – 0 to 1 of the Chip18:00 – Packaging as the New Moore’s Law28:00 – Racks, Trays, and the Unit of Compute38:00 – Memory Hierarchy: HBM, DRAM, and the Next Tier50:00 – Scaling Up vs Scaling Out1:02:00 – AI Alignment1:10:00 – The Future of Labs1:17:00 – Closing Thoughts and Where Value Accrues Next

My conversation with Rob Hadick.As General Partner at Dragonfly, Rob has one of the clearest views on how blockchain is evolving from speculative crypto into the actual infrastructure of global capital markets. In this episode we dig into why finance, payments, asset issuance, and markets are the only parts of crypto that are truly scaling and how the industry is quietly becoming TradFi’s onchain upgrade.We spend a lot of time mapping traditional capital markets primitives directly onto blockchain rails and examining where value is actually going to accrue as tokenization, stablecoins, and onchain trading mature.At the center of the conversation is the belief that blockchain is no longer building a parallel financial system — it is becoming the settlement, issuance, and trading layer for the existing one, while crypto itself settles into a more mature “capital markets +” phase focused on real assets, institutional flows, and sustainable business models.We discuss:- The current state of crypto as capital markets infrastructure and the decline of pure speculative narratives- Why finance, payments, and tokenization are winning while most other crypto applications struggle- The architectural parallel between traditional capital markets and on-chain systems- Tokenized assets = Securities- Stablecoins = Cash / settlement- DEXs & on-chain venues = Exchanges- Prediction markets = Information markets- Why institutions are moving on-chain and what they actually want (control, privacy, segregated markets)- Token vs equity: where value accrues in a non-Clarity Act world- The mass extinction event in crypto VC and why Dragonfly is doubling down on financial infrastructure- Stablecoins, RWAs, and the real path to “tokenization of everything”- Prediction markets (and why Polymarket matters) as the next interface layer- Sustainable business models and where value will ultimately captureTimestamps:0:00 – Introduction & State of Crypto as Capital Markets2:00 – Why Speculative Narratives Are Fading7:00 – Finance, Payments & Tokenization as the Only Scaling Verticals12:00 – Institutional Adoption & What Wall Street Actually Wants18:00 – Token vs Equity Value Accrual25:00 – Blockchain as the New Settlement & Issuance Layer35:00 – Prediction Markets, Information & the Next Interface45:00 – Crypto VC Consolidation & Dragonfly’s Thesis55:00 – Real-World Assets, Stablecoins & On-Chain Markets1:05:00 – Closing Thoughts: Where Value Accrues NextEnjoy!

My conversation with Tarun Chitra.As a co-founder of Gauntlet and GP at Robot Ventures, Tarun has one of the sharpest frameworks for understanding market structure across both crypto and AI. In this episode we dig into why open-source AI is unbundling faster than most people expect, and how the resulting stack looks surprisingly similar to DeFi.We spend a lot of time mapping the AI infrastructure layers directly onto crypto primitives and examining where value is actually going to accrue as models, harnesses, routers, and inference providers separate.At the center of the conversation is the belief that AI’s unbundling is creating a new competitive order-flow market (data centers competing like nodes, MEV-like dynamics for tokens/GPUs) while crypto itself has settled into a more mature “TradFi plus+” phase focused on trading, payments, and bringing real assets on-chain.We discuss:- The current state of crypto as TradFi+ and the decline of speculative narratives- Why AI is killing Bitcoin mining economics and weakening ETH value accrual- The architectural parallel between AI stacks and DeFi Harnesses = WalletsRouters = DEX aggregators,Models = ProtocolsInference Providers = LPs- Why open-source models are unbundling faster than traditional software- Agents as the next interface layer and the potential unbundling of ETFs- Cryptography, verifiable compute, and turning GPUs into digital assets- Onchain compute trading as the real crypto × AI opportunity- Sustainable business models and where value will ultimately captureTimestamps:0:00 – Introduction & State of the Crypto Market (TradFi+)2:00 – Speculative Narratives Fade, Trading & Payments Remain7:00 – AI’s Impact on Bitcoin Economics & Data Center Opportunity Cost9:00 – ETH Value Accrual, Solana Positioning & DeFi Token Sustainability15:00 – Trading Design Space & On-Chain Volume Upside25:00 – AI Unbundling Thesis: Open-Source Models vs Data Centers35:00 – The DeFi Mapping (Harnesses, Routers, Models, Inference)48:00 – Agents, Preference Expression & Unbundling Traditional Products1:00:00 – Real-Time Harness Generation & Active Learning1:05:00 – Cryptography, Verifiable Compute & On-Chain GPU Markets1:10:00 – Closing Thoughts: Where Value Accrues NextEnjoy!

DoubleZero is the High-Performance Global Network of network of dedicated high-performance links engineered to bring low-latency networking to everyone, everywhere.Austin's Twitter: https://x.com/Austin_FederaMateo's Twitter: https://x.com/mateowardDoubleZero's Twitter: https://x.com/doublezeroShelby's Website: ⁠https://doublezero.xyz/Logan Jastremski's Twitter: https://x.com/LoganJastremski Frictionless's Twitter: https://x.com/FrictionlessVCFrictionless's Website: ⁠https://frictionless.capital

The first decentralized hot storage network, being built on a dedicated fiber network. Designed for content streaming, AI inference, and real-time apps.Pranav's Twitter: https://x.com/rpranavShelby's Twitter: https://x.com/shelbyservesShelby's Website: ⁠https://shelby.xyz/Logan Jastremski's Twitter: https://x.com/LoganJastremski Frictionless's Twitter: https://x.com/FrictionlessVCFrictionless's Website: ⁠https://frictionless.capital⁠

Titan is building Crypto’s Interactive Broker providing the national best bid and offer (nbbo) in the Solana Ecosystem. Titan's Twitter: https://x.com/Titan_ExchangeAndrew's Twitter: https://x.com/defythepancakeTitan's Website: ⁠https://titan.exchangeLogan Jastremski's Twitter: https://x.com/LoganJastremski Frictionless's Twitter: https://x.com/FrictionlessVCFrictionless's Website: ⁠https://frictionless.capital⁠

Chris Heaney is the Lead Engineer of Drift Protocol which brings on-chain, cross-margined perpetual futures to Solana.Drift Protocol's Twitter: @DriftProtocolChris Heaney's Twitter: @crispheaneyDrift's Website: ⁠https://www.drift.trade/⁠Logan Jastremski's Twitter: @LoganJastremski Frictionless's Twitter: @_Frictionless_Frictionless's Website: ⁠https://frictionless.fund/⁠