#568: How to Build a Law Firm You Can Sell, with Victoria L. Collier

Most law firm owners build a business that depends entirely on them—then wonder why no one wants to buy it.  In this episode, we talk with Victoria Collier, founder of Quid Pro Quo, about how to build a firm that’s not only profitable, but truly sellable. Victoria shares what she learned selling her own estate planning and elder law firm after 18 years—and how she now helps other lawyers do the same.  You’ll learn what buyers actually look for (hint: it’s not just revenue), why your firm needs to run without you, and how a shift in mindset can create more freedom and future value. Victoria also shares surprising truths about law firm sales—like the possibility of getting cash upfront—and how AI is quickly becoming a key part of due diligence for buyers and sellers alike.     Listen to our other episodes on the selling your practice:  #369: Selling Your Practice, with Tom Lenfestey Apple | Spotify |  Lawyerist  #326: A Succession Plan for Your Law Practice, with Tom Lenfestey Apple | Spotify | Lawyerist    Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!    If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.    Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.    Chapters/Timestamps:  00:00 - Introduction: The Mindset of a Sellable Law Firm  02:45 - The Dangers of Being the Bottleneck: Why Delegation Matters  06:58 - Lessons from a Successful Firm Sale: What Works and What Doesn't  09:22 - What Buyers Look For: Red Flags and Green Lights in Your Firm  21:52 - Surprising Realities of Selling a Law Firm: Financing and Debt  31:21 - AI's Role in Increasing Your Firm's Value  34:02 - Life After Law: Preparing for Your Next Chapter  36:46 - The Fundamental Mindset Shift: Owning a Business, Not Just a Job  37:50 - Taking the First Steps Toward a Sellable Firm

This episode of the Lawyerist Podcast offers a thorough exploration of understanding introversion, shyness, and social anxiety, and how these traits can be leveraged as strengths, particularly in the legal profession. You'll hear Zack Glaser's conversation with law professor and author Heidi Brown, who shares insights from her book, The Introverted Lawyer.  Heidi provides clarity on the distinctions between being an introvert—someone who processes information internally and recharges with solitude—versus shyness or social anxiety, which stem from a fear of judgment or criticism. Heidi Brown, a public speaker and author who identifies as an introvert, demonstrates that it's possible to be confident and professionally effective while embracing introversion.  You'll discover how introversion can be a "superpower," bringing valuable assets such as active listening, thoughtful problem-solving, empathy, sensitivity to nuance, and strong writing skills to any professional dynamic. The conversation also covers practical steps for introverts to show up authentically and confidently, including mental and physical reflection techniques, reframing negative self-talk, and developing pre-game and game-day routines for high-pressure situations.  Heidi offers perspectives on supporting introverted team members to foster a shared vocabulary around individual strengths. Learn how to recognize and harness your unique qualities, or those of your team, to excel in the legal profession.    Listen to our other episodes:  #564: The Gift in the Struggle: Leveraging Emotional Intelligence for Growth, with Sara Muender Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist  #535: Lawyer Burnout: 5 Hidden Signs You’re About to Crash, with Natasha Evans Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist     #506: Managing Stress & Avoiding Burnout, with Emily Nagoski  Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist       Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!    If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.   Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.  Chapters/Timestamps:  00:00 Introversion, Shyness, and Social Anxiety Defined   05:14 Internal vs. External Processing: Understanding Different Communication Styles 15:56 Introversion as a Superpower in the Legal Profession   18:32 Authenticity and Confidence: Mental and Physical Strategies   25:52 Embracing the Blush: Reframing Physical Responses   30:52 Building Confidence: The Power of Pregame and Game Day Routines   34:29 Supporting Introverts in the Workplace   41:36 Your Place in Law: A Message of Empowerment

What happens when a lawyer stops accepting inefficiency as “just the way things are”? In this episode, Zack Glaser talks with attorney and legal tech founder Katya Fisher about her journey from launching a solo practice during the Great Recession to building scalable tools for transactional lawyers.  Katya shares how her legal experience—spanning BigLaw, in-house, and solo practice—revealed pain points in the dealmaking process that technology still hadn’t solved. She explains how she went from identifying those issues to building software that brings clarity, organization, and efficiency to high-stakes legal work.  Along the way, Katya unpacks:  The scrappy start to her legal career  How working solo gave her an edge inside a global corporate group  What legal professionals need to know about scaling their ideas  Why tech tools fail lawyers—and how that can change  Whether you're a lawyer thinking beyond the billable or simply curious how innovation happens in the legal world, this episode delivers practical insights with an entrepreneurial twist.  Listen to our other episodes on entrepreneurship:   #411: Staying Entrepreneurial at a Bigger Firm, with Nick Pleasants  Apple Podcast |  Lawyerist  #268: Riding the Entrepreneurial Rollercoaster, with Cameron Herold Apple Podcast | Lawyerist   #205: Entrepreneurial Poverty & Why Average Law Firms Lose, with Mike Michalowicz Apple Podcast | Lawyerist     Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!  If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.  Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.     Chapters/Timestamps:   00:00 Introduction: The Entrepreneurial Lawyer  01:02 Quarterly Planning: Intentional Business Growth  07:15 Solo Practice Origins: Scrappy Beginnings  13:36 The Competitive Advantage of Broad Experience  17:51 ADHD as a Superpower: Hyperfocus and Foresight  23:36 Accurately Identify a Business Problem  30:40 From Idea to Product: Building a Product or Workflow  36:10 Articulating Vision and Gaining Buy-In  41:14 Lessons Learned: Advice for Aspiring Innovators

This special remastered episode of the Lawyerist Podcast features Stephanie's conversation with Geoff Woods, author of The AI-Driven Leader. We're re-releasing it due to positive feedback on the depth of this discussion, ensuring you'll gain new insights and "aha!" moments with every listen.  In this episode, we explore AI's transformative power, viewing it not as a threat, but as a liberator that enhances our work. We dive into the five core human skills to emphasize in an AI-driven world: strategic thinking, problem-solving, communication, collaboration, and creation. We demonstrate how to leverage AI strategically, from evaluating business plans to acting as a growth-minded board member, and you'll hear how we're integrating AI into our own leadership meetings.  Geoff shares real-world examples of using AI as a "thought partner" to stress-test major strategic decisions, even creating an "AI board of advisors." He also provides practical applications for lawyers, such as using AI to review NDAs, stress-test legal arguments, and role-play closing arguments with AI as your jury. To guide your own AI journey, Geoff outlines his "CRIT" framework (Context, Role, Interview, Task) for effective prompting and highlights the importance of understanding AI model settings for data privacy and confidentiality.  Listen to our other episodes on the AI revolution:  #555: How to Use AI and Universal Design to Empower Diverse Thinkers with Susan Tanner Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist   #553: AI Tools and Processes Every Lawyer Should Use with Catherine Sanders Reach Apple Podcasts  Spotify  Lawyerist     #550: Beyond Content: How AI is Changing Law Firm Marketing, with Gyi Tsakalaki and Conrad Saam: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist    Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!  If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.  Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.  The AI-Driven Leader   Chapters/Timestamps:  0:00 - Episode Introduction and Why This Remastered Version is Special   1:22 - AI as the Next Big Shift for Lawyers   6:28 - Geoff Woods: Redefining Leadership in the AI Era   9:11 - The Five Core Human Skills Enhanced by AI   10:36 - Strategic AI: Beyond Basic Tasks   14:24 - AI as Your Strategic Thought Partner   19:47 - Navigating AI: Threat vs. Opportunity for Lawyers   20:56 - Practical AI Applications: NDA Review and Valuation   28:51 - Building Your AI Habit: The "CRIT" Framework   32:19 - AI Security and Data Privacy for Legal Professionals   34:40 - The Risk of Inaction and Building the Future Firm

In this insightful episode of the Lawyerist Podcast, we invite you to explore the profound interplay between personal resilience and professional advancement. Join business coach Sara Muender and host Zack Glaser as they guide us through the essential process of reframing failure and leveraging hardships for significant growth.  You'll discover how encountering obstacles or experiencing a dip in professional momentum often reveals deeper, underlying emotional dynamics. We underscore the critical importance of emotional intelligence and the strategic prioritization of human experience over purely technical or strategic solutions. Sara shares how AI tools, while invaluable for streamlining operations like project management, also provide significant support in mitigating overwhelm and burnout, allowing you to shift focus from mere tasks to your overall well-being.  This conversation offers a compelling perspective on navigating your unique challenges, emphasizing that genuine resilience stems from directly engaging with difficulties, not from avoiding them. We'll discuss why comparing your professional journey to others can be unproductive and how embracing even uncomfortable emotions can become a potent catalyst for your development. If you're seeking to cultivate a more robust understanding of your professional hurdles and harness emotional intelligence for sustained success, this episode provides invaluable guidance.    Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!    If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.    Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.  #516: Flexing Your Discipline Muscle to Stay Motivated, with Sara Muender  Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist    #535: Lawyer Burnout: 5 Hidden Signs You’re About to Crash, with Natasha Evans  Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist    #506: Managing Stress & Avoiding Burnout, with Emily Nagoski  Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist       Chapters:  00:00 - Introduction & AI's Role in Work  01:50 - AI for Project Scoping & Management  03:47 - AI, Client Feedback & Emotional Intelligence  04:40 - Overcoming Overwhelm with AI  07:10 - Finding "The Gift in the Struggle"  08:04 - Battling Burnout & Comparison Traps  13:53 - The Power of Slowing Down  16:11 - Embracing Failure & Building Resilience  22:29 - Failure as Data, Not Personal Worth  23:41 - Personal Tragedy & Finding Meaning  29:22 - The Relativity of Pain & Self-Improvement  34:35 - Facing Hard Truths & Growth

Step inside a real-world example of legal innovation as two Lawyerist Lab members, Rachel Allums and Allison Harrison, reveal how they partnered to create Safe Sendoff, a new company addressing common legal needs for young adults.   Rachel and Allison identified a need for legal documents like powers of attorney and HIPAA releases when young people turn 18. They decided to join forces, sharing costs and leveraging their individual firm experiences to develop a product that serves both young adults and their parents. Beyond providing crucial legal forms, Safe Sendoff also includes an "Adulting 101" course, which educates young people on the responsibilities and rights that come with turning 18, covering topics from employment rules to filing taxes.  Their discussion highlights a new service delivery model offering automated, cost-effective solutions. Rachel and Allison share how their experience running their individual law firms informed their approach to building Safe Sendoff, allowing them to expedite the process of defining their purpose, vision, and ideal client. They also emphasize the benefits of working with a shared coach through Lawyerist Lab, which helped keep them on track. You'll learn about their commitment to transparent, upfront pricing and their focus on delivering valuable legal support through recorded explanations and automated processes, making high-quality legal information accessible at a fraction of the cost.  If this discussion sparks questions about optimizing your firm's operations or identifying new opportunities, consider exploring the "free small firm scorecard" at lawyerist.com/scorecard. It's a quick assessment to help you get a data-driven view of your firm and identify areas for smart improvements as you embark on your own innovation journey.    Listen to our other episodes:  #407: Serving Clients Through Alternative Business Structures, with Mike Payne and Chad Huebsch Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist   #368: Using Strategy Intensives for Your Firm’s Success, with Anne Romanello Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist   #320 A Labster Call, with Aaron Thomas Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist    Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!    If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.    Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.  Chapters/Timestamps:  9:31 - Introducing Safe Sendoff: A New Venture 11:49 - The "Adulting 101" Component & Why Young Adults Need These Documents 15:14 - The Partnership Journey: Challenges and Synergies 17:48 - Building a Second Business Differently 22:46 - The Business Model: Beyond the Billable Hour 25:24 - Lessons Learned and Advice for Entrepreneurs 28:53 - What's Next for Safe Sendoff: Marketing and Growth

AI is here to revolutionize your law firm, moving beyond simple prompts to actively handling your tasks. This Lawyerist Podcast episode is your essential guide. Zack Glaser sits down with Dr. Charreau Bell, a senior data scientist and assistant professor at Vanderbilt University, who's helping law students and faculty use AI in truly meaningful ways.  This isn’t just theoretical—you’ll get real clarity on what it means to use AI well in your firm, right now. We break down the crucial difference between merely using an AI model and actually "training" one, so you understand what's happening behind the scenes. You’ll also learn when it's safe (and risky!) to send client data into cloud-based AI tools, and how you can even run powerful AI models right on your own computer for ultimate privacy.  But here's where it gets really exciting: we explore how AI is evolving beyond simple prompts into "agentic systems" that can plan, reason, and act on your behalf. Think of AI not just as a tool, but as a proactive assistant that can break down complex tasks and execute them using various "tools" you provide. This isn't just about automating simple tasks; it’s about offloading work that previously required significant expertise, freeing you to focus on more creative and complex legal challenges.  If this episode sparks questions about the data in your firm and how you can leverage it, check out the “free small firm scorecard”. It’s a quick assessment to help you get a data-driven view of your firm and identify areas for smart improvements as you embark on your AI journey.    Listen to our other episodes about Artificial Intelligence:   #555: How to Use AI and Universal Design to Empower Diverse Thinkers with Susan Tanner Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Lawyerist  #553: AI Tools and Processes Every Lawyer Should Use with Catherine Sanders Reach Apple Podcasts  Spotify  Lawyerist   #551: Becoming the AI Driven Leader, with Geoff Woods Apple Podcasts  Spotify  Lawyerist     Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!   If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.  Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com    Chapters/Timestamps:  00:00 - Introduction: Beyond Simple AI Prompts  03:20 - How Data Science Helps Lawyers  04:32 - Automating Document Review and Information Extraction  07:10 - Understanding How AI Models Work (Training vs. Using)  13:25 - Secure AI: Running Models Locally and with Cloud Providers  17:16 - Training AI Models with Limited Data (Transfer Learning)  28:16 - The Power of Agentic AI Systems  34:24 - Interacting with Agentic AI and Security Considerations  38:21 - The Importance of Data Organization in the Age of AI  43:46 - The Future of AI: Automating the Unwanted

Ready for a serious look at the future of your law firm? In this Lawyerist Podcast episode, Zack Glaser sits down with a panel of law school professors for a wake-up call about something that will fundamentally reshape your practice: the tech-savvy generation of law students entering the field. This isn't a distant trend; it's happening now, and it demands your attention.  We explore how these future lawyers are already operating differently. You'll hear firsthand about their strong preference for the Google ecosystem – and why that directly impacts your firm's current reliance on tools like Microsoft Word. This isn't just about software; it's about the shifting expectations and workflows these digital natives are bringing with them as they become your colleagues.  Here's where it gets interesting for you: we explore how you can leverage this change to your firm's advantage. The professors share insights on how these students are uniquely positioned to drive AI adoption within your practice. Think of them as an untapped resource, ready to experiment with and implement AI-powered services that can elevate your firm's capabilities and even open doors to new service areas.  And let's be clear, you can't afford to ignore the rising importance of tech fluency, especially in AI. The professors don't mince words: a lack of understanding in this area will directly impact your ability to serve clients effectively. In a world swimming in digital data, from car sensors to smart devices, your firm's relevance depends on it.  This episode is your essential guide to:  Stay ahead of the curve in a rapidly evolving legal landscape  Unlocking the potential of the next generation of legal talent  Building a future-proof firm that thrives on innovation  Tune in!  Listen to our other episodes about Artificial Intelligence:  #556 Hidden Data: What Lawyers Need to Know About Digital Forensics, with Cole Popkin Apple Podcasts  Spotify  Lawyerist  #538: AI is Making Law Firms Obsolete, with Alistair Vigier Apple Podcasts  Spotify  Lawyerist  #551: Becoming the AI Driven Leader, with Geoff Woods Apple Podcasts  Spotify  Lawyerist    Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!   If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.  Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.  Chapters/Timestamps:    00:00 – Intro: The Tech-Savvy Future of Law - Google Natives vs. Word Warriors  01:13 – The Google-Native Generation of Lawyers    02:51 – Changing Communication Norms    04:35 – Meet the Guests: Law School Professors on the Frontlines    06:21 – Teaching AI in Law School: An Overview    08:01 – Dennis Kennedy on AI in the Classroom    10:11 – Nicole Morris on AI Governance and Research    15:03 – Tracy Norton on AI as a Legal Writing Tool    25:25 – Is AI Dumbing Down Legal Education?    30:23 – Why Law School Must Teach AI    35:41 – How Should Professors Grade AI-Generated Work?    41:46 – Using AI to Improve the Classroom Experience    47:00 – How AI Will Change Legal Mentorship    52:19 – The Future of Law Firms and AI Expectations    55:25 – Final Thoughts: You Can’t Tap Out of AI    57:52 – Outro

Feeling like you're the only one holding everything together in your law firm? You're not alone. This episode dives into a crucial aspect of firm growth that often gets overlooked: leadership. Zack kicks things off with an inspiring reminder about the power of stepping outside your comfort zone – something just as vital for you as a legal professional looking to build a truly sustainable practice. Get ready to explore why developing strong leadership isn't just for CEOs; it's the key to breaking free from feeling constantly overwhelmed.  Then, Zack sits down with Lawyerist coach Leticia DeSuze, who brings a wealth of real-world experience guiding law firms just like yours. Leticia gets straight to the heart of the matter: how the very success you've achieved can sometimes highlight underlying leadership gaps, turning you into the ultimate bottleneck. You'll hear practical insights on how to shift gears from simply practicing law to intentionally building a team that can take ownership and drive results, ultimately freeing up your time and energy for what truly matters.  Ready to take control and build a more efficient and less personally draining law firm? Tune in to discover actionable strategies for effective delegation, setting crystal-clear expectations for your team, and implementing KPIs that empower everyone to take responsibility. This episode offers a roadmap for moving beyond the daily grind and cultivating a thriving team practice where you empower them to carry the load.  Listen to our other episodes with Leticia DeSuze:  #491: Crafting Your Purpose-Driven Leadership Vision, with Leticia DeSuze Apple Podcast | Spotify |  Lawyerist  #520: The Truth About Lawyer Self-Care: Prioritize or Suffer  Apple Podcast |  Spotify | Lawyerist  #464: Unpacking the Power of Self-Accountability in Coaching, with Leticia DeSuze Apple Podcast |  Spotify | Lawyerist     Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!  If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.   Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.    Chapters/Timestamps:   00:00 -  Introduction: Embracing the "Positive Struggle" 04:05 - The Leadership Skills Gap: From Lawyer to Leader 07:10 -  Breaking the Bottleneck: Delegation and Mindset Shifts 10:46 -  Beyond Hiring: Developing Leaders at Every Level 21:40 -  Client Service vs. Efficiency: Finding the Right Balance 28:58 -  Redefining Leadership: Structure, Ownership, and Trust 31:07 -  Recognizing Individual Motivators, Final Thoughts

In this conversation, Karin Conroy, a legal marketing strategist, discusses the evolution of law firm websites and the importance of unique branding in legal marketing. She emphasizes the pitfalls of copying competitors and the need for firms to develop their own unique selling propositions. The discussion also touches on the significance of being first to market and avoiding shortcuts in marketing strategies. Karin provides insights into how firms can differentiate themselves and succeed in a competitive landscape.  Links from the episode:  www.conroycreativecounsel.com  https://conroycreativecounsel.com/blw/  Chapters  00:00 Introduction to Legal Marketing and Website Contest  02:59 The Evolution of Law Firm Websites  06:01 The Pitfalls of Copying Competitors  08:54 The Importance of Unique Branding  12:05 Strategies for Being First to Market  14:52 Conclusion and Resources for Legal Marketing